Pioneer 9G Kuro Comparison Chart: xx20, 500/600M, 111/151, 101/141, 500/600A, LX-XX90 - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:00 PM
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It's not a 141 sans ISFccc ndisgii. It's similar to the 141 but there are still more differences not listed in that chart.

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #122 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

It's not a 141 sans ISFccc ndisgii. It's similar to the 141 but there are still more differences not listed in that chart.

Could you elaborate a little more please on what those differences are? I am talking about the ones aside from the ISFccc interface and the physical inputs. Thanks!
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post #123 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:25 PM
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PQ-wise I think it's pretty safe to say that it's a 141 minus ISFccc.
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post #124 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

PQ-wise I think it's pretty safe to say that it's a 141 minus ISFccc.

Agreed 100%, especially after reading the following post today

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Speaking purely on Pure mode performance, this is how I would rank them... from best to worst:
  • 101FD/141FD/500M/600M
  • 111FD
  • 151FD

Just curious as to what XORTAM was referring to?
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post #125 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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D-NICE was only talking about Pure more... period
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post #126 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ndisgii View Post

Could you elaborate a little more please on what those differences are? I am talking about the ones aside from the ISFccc interface and the physical inputs. Thanks!

I believe the 500/600M models don't have IP control. The Sigs also go through an elevated QA process, factory break-in and calibration, and contain tighter tolerance components. There may be differences in the menuing system and serial link control as well but I haven't looked into this (done shopping, I've got my 141). The Sigs don’t have any audio circuitry which is advantageous in some areas while lacking in the ability to add speakers as an option. There may be other differences but these come to mind immediately.

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post #127 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

I believe the 500/600M models don't have IP control.

According to the manual, they do.

Quote:


The Sigs don't have any audio circuitry which is advantageous in some areas while lacking in the ability to add speakers as an option.

That was mentioned in the charts in this thread. Your post specifically cited other things not mentioned there, which is what prompted the questions.
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post #128 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:54 PM
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Has someone confirmed that these models do indeed have IP control? I hadn't heard that they included this feature. These sets are certainly an attractive option for potential buyers.

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #129 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xortam View Post

These sets are certainly an attractive option for potential buyers.

I agree for sure but there is a reason why Pioneer has Elite/Signature models IMO its the best of the best IMO
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post #130 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

... Elite/Signature models IMO its the best of the best IMO

Oh I agree Roman. That's why I've referred to the 141 as the “elite Elite” (progprog hated that ). It's the flagship of the Kuro line. Though I might have gone with the 600M if it was available at the time (if it indeed has IP control) and saved myself some money. I doubt I would have given up ISFccc though. I love having a monitor vs. a TV and it's long been my preference.

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post #131 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

Has someone confirmed that these models do indeed have IP control? I hadn't heard that they included this feature. These sets are certainly an attractive option for potential buyers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=268
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post #132 of 524 Old 03-23-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:

Oops, I had seen that before. Very good!

"Plasma TV ... so called because in order to afford one, you're going to have to sell your blood." -- Ed Helms, The Daily Show.
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post #133 of 524 Old 03-24-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

Im seriously considering the 600M. Is it really like the elite without the stand and speakers for the most part? Performance the same? how much do elite speakers cost? Thanks in advance.

If you need the Elite speakers, I would keep a check on Ebay, and you can get a deal. Best place. Also, check w/custom installers or DIY owners that may have no need for them after wall mounting. Does anyone know if the table stand on the 151 will fit the 600m?
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post #134 of 524 Old 03-24-2009, 08:40 AM
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please limit your posts to technical issues

Please take the high road in every post
Please do not quote or respond to problematic posts: report them to mods to handle
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post #135 of 524 Old 03-25-2009, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xortam View Post

Oh I agree Roman. That's why I've referred to the 141 as the elite Elite (progprog hated that ). It's the flagship of the Kuro line. Though I might have gone with the 600M if it was available at the time (if it indeed has IP control) and saved myself some money. I doubt I would have given up ISFccc though. I love having a monitor vs. a TV and it's long been my preference.

why is a monitor preferred? does it go up higher in resolution or something? i was under the impression that the pioneer monitors used the same pixel sizes as the tv's
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post #136 of 524 Old 03-25-2009, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveli7x7 View Post

why is a monitor preferred? does it go up higher in resolution or something? i was under the impression that the pioneer monitors used the same pixel sizes as the tv's

Modularity. What would you prefer, an all-in-one stereo system, with built in speakers, tuner and amp; or an AVR with external preamp, amp, and speakers? Its the same thing with a display - why have all the other stuff built in?

Ok, so maybe you'd rather have both (all-in-one and seperates). Some people like to have the option to use either. But some of us just like things as streamlined and bloat-free as possible. That's why we prefer monitors.
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post #137 of 524 Old 03-26-2009, 08:03 AM
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Great illustration there, mkoesel.

Please forgive my connectivity ignorance, but what would the KRP-600M's lack of digital audio output mean for someone who's currently -- and would like to continue -- using this via optical out?

The musicians I listen to are so underground they haven't even heard of themselves.
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post #138 of 524 Old 03-26-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Post Blue View Post

Great illustration there, mkoesel.

Please forgive my connectivity ignorance, but what would the KRP-600M's lack of digital audio output mean for someone who's currently -- and would like to continue -- using this via optical out?

TVs that have an optical port only pass 5.1 data from their internal tuner. 5.1 surround from external sources via HDMI is either converted to standard stereo or isn't output at all.

Therefore, because the 600M has no internal tuner, there's no reason for it to have an optical output. You aren't losing anything as long as you weren't planning to use the internal tuner.
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post #139 of 524 Old 03-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post

Modularity. What would you prefer, an all-in-one stereo system, with built in speakers, tuner and amp; or an AVR with external preamp, amp, and speakers? Its the same thing with a display - why have all the other stuff built in?

Ok, so maybe you'd rather have both (all-in-one and seperates). Some people like to have the option to use either. But some of us just like things as streamlined and bloat-free as possible. That's why we prefer monitors.

...and full HD-resolution with all inputs. I dont know why Pioneer avoided full HD with the PC-input on their earlier models, but that is not an issue any more with my KRP-500M.

Oh...I forgot to mention the insanely high(or is it correct to say low..?) black level on my monitor...
It makes the transition to future zero luminance tv:s easier...
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post #140 of 524 Old 03-26-2009, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

TVs that have an optical port only pass 5.1 data from their internal tuner. 5.1 surround from external sources via HDMI is either converted to standard stereo or isn't output at all.

Therefore, because the 600M has no internal tuner, there's no reason for it to have an optical output. You aren't losing anything as long as you weren't planning to use the internal tuner.

Fantastic. I don't plan on using an internal tuner, so it sounds like I wouldn't need to be worried with that set. I've got a lot to learn about audio, so thanks.

The musicians I listen to are so underground they haven't even heard of themselves.
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post #141 of 524 Old 03-27-2009, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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The Pro-111fd speaker brackets will need some modification to fit on the KRP-500M. The Pro-151fd speaker brackets FIT on the KRP-600M perfectly.
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post #142 of 524 Old 03-27-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSo View Post

The Pro-111fd speaker brackets will need some modification to fit on the KRP-500M. The Pro-151fd speaker brackets FIT on the KRP-600M perfectly.

Fantastic!

Thanks for the update.
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post #143 of 524 Old 03-28-2009, 07:38 PM
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That has been debated so many time and everyone has their own opinion. I my opinion, Pioneer will honor their Plasma warranty as long as they are around much like NEC and Fujitsu. However, people were worried about Pioneer's survival as a company as well. To be very honest with you, I have absolutely no idea Pioneer is going to make it or not (I hope they do but in this state of economy ... ). But I think they will be around for at least 1 or 2 years which covers the manufacturer warranty. In term of parts availability, the biggest worry I have is the glass panel itself because 1, it is the most expansive; 2, that is what they stop making. With all the shattered glass during delivery, they should have plenty of other parts.

In terms of Panasonics, I also created a comparison chart for all the north American models here. Since most of the large size one are not available yet (12G), the information is still very much incomplete. However, the G10 professional review by Chad B looks quite promising. In your case if I were you, I am assuming money is not too much of an issue if you are looking at the 151/141, I will wait for the V10 series (58" or 65") if you are worried about Pioneer's future. However, bear in mind, I believe the 12G Panasonics are not at the Pioneer Elite level yet. Why?

Data is from Chad B's review of the G10 and D-Nice review of the 111.
  • Black Level: G10=0.0079fL; 111=0.001fL
  • Contrast Ratio: G10=7399; 111=17,800:1
  • ANSI: G10=3892; 111=13,833:1
  • 24p Material: G10=48 Hz "still flickers"; 111=72 Hz

Hi SoSo,

Thanks for posting this. I am in the same boat, looking for a 50", and if it wasn't for Pioneer going out of business won't be buying a TV now, and would wait for another 9 months to a year.

Now, not sure if the money for an Elite 111 or 101, is worth it in 12monts? Is it? Anytime I bought the BEST TV/PC/Audio, it was just a waste of money, I typically now go for 2nd best as it has the best bang for the buck.

In this case, I am losing sleep actually. Not sure if the current Elite models will be "the best" in class next year (at the same price). So, again not sure if I should pull the trigger now or later for a Panasonic Plasma or newer LED-backlight LCDs! 50" is max size I can do BTW.

Any feedback? My GF is already pissed off I wanna spend this much $$ on a TV, and I need as much convincing argument as I can get!

Pioneer Elite Kuro 111FD, Elite BDP-05FD, Elite 72TXV, B&W 805/XTC/M1.
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post #144 of 524 Old 03-28-2009, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

Hi SoSo,

Thanks for posting this. I am in the same boat, looking for a 50", and if it wasn't for Pioneer going out of business won't be buying a TV now, and would wait for another 9 months to a year.

Now, not sure if the money for an Elite 111 or 101, is worth it in 12monts? Is it? Anytime I bought the BEST TV/PC/Audio, it was just a waste of money, I typically now go for 2nd best as it has the best bang for the buck.

In this case, I am losing sleep actually. Not sure if the current Elite models will be "the best" in class next year (at the same price). So, again not sure if I should pull the trigger now or later for a Panasonic Plasma or newer LED-backlight LCDs! 50" is max size I can do BTW.

Any feedback? My GF is already pissed off I wanna spend this much $$ on a TV, and I need as much convincing argument as I can get!

With the price of the Elite dropping so much, I'm debating with myself whether to get one now or wait until the Panasonic V series comes out and hope there are still Elites available if I'm not satisfied with the V. Decisions decisions.

I wouldn't worry too much about your GF being pissed off -- she's not your wife.
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post #145 of 524 Old 03-28-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Spleen View Post

With the price of the Elite dropping so much, I'm debating with myself whether to get one now or wait until the Panasonic V series comes out and hope there are still Elites available if I'm not satisfied with the V. Decisions decisions.

I wouldn't worry too much about your GF being pissed off -- she's not your wife.

Are they dropping that much? In Canada they're going up actually, but due to currency rate.

Not 100% sure what to do, I really don't HAVE TO, buy one, wasn't planning to buy one till next year, but just thought I should get my hands on one before they're all gone.

I know the GF thing, she's preparing me for what's to come!

Pioneer Elite Kuro 111FD, Elite BDP-05FD, Elite 72TXV, B&W 805/XTC/M1.
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post #146 of 524 Old 03-30-2009, 07:46 PM
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Pulled the trigger on 111 today! Cannot fit the speakers in my spot, and would be wall mounting... but I thought at the end it's more versatile in the long run and since I would probably be keeping this TV for years, I went with that...

THE ONLY reason I am still a bit torn, is the thinner profile of 101! I wanna make it AS FLUSH as possible and wasn't able to compare them side by side to see how much thinner 101 actually looks like?!

If anyone's got a side-by-side pics, or have done the same comparison I appreciate it by tomorrow as I am gonna go pickup one or the other!

Thanks

Pioneer Elite Kuro 111FD, Elite BDP-05FD, Elite 72TXV, B&W 805/XTC/M1.
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post #147 of 524 Old 04-02-2009, 08:01 AM
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I just bought a 5020 Kuro for the living room and want to buy the 151 60" Elite (have an option to buy it at $4k right now) for my media room (it is bedroom 3 (13'x11') in our house that will be converted to a media room). I need to make a decision and to do that I will ask what you would do:

A) Buy 60" Elite now because it is a deal that can not be turned down
B) Wait until Panasonic models come out with something comparable in 1 year
C) Wait until backlight 240hz LCDs drop off price and buy a 55" Samsung or something comparable

My impression of 5020 is (without being calibrated since I am still breaking the TV off) it is couple of years ahead of its time due to poor HD quality from cable company and the lack of Blu Ray titles/high Blu Ray prices combination. Watching Dark Knight was amazing but most of my time in the living room is spent watching crappy Uverse HD channels. I don't even turn to SD channels they are so bad.

Please help me make a decision.
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post #148 of 524 Old 04-02-2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armadillo007 View Post

I just bought a 5020 Kuro for the living room and want to buy the 151 60" Elite (have an option to buy it at $4k right now) for my media room (it is bedroom 3 (13'x11') in our house that will be converted to a media room). I need to make a decision and to do that I will ask what you would do:

A) Buy 60" Elite now because it is a deal that can not be turned down
B) Wait until Panasonic models come out with something comparable in 1 year
C) Wait until backlight 240hz LCDs drop off price and buy a 55" Samsung or something comparable

My impression of 5020 is (without being calibrated since I am still breaking the TV off) it is couple of years ahead of its time due to poor HD quality from cable company and the lack of Blu Ray titles/high Blu Ray prices combination. Watching Dark Knight was amazing but most of my time in the living room is spent watching crappy Uverse HD channels. I don't even turn to SD channels they are so bad.

Please help me make a decision.

Panasonic won't have anything comparable in the next year, so if you have the cash, go with the Elite. If you want a 60" though you should also consider the 600M if it fits your setup.
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post #149 of 524 Old 04-02-2009, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armadillo007 View Post

I just bought a 5020 Kuro for the living room and want to buy the 151 60" Elite (have an option to buy it at $4k right now) for my media room (it is bedroom 3 (13'x11') in our house that will be converted to a media room). I need to make a decision and to do that I will ask what you would do:

A) Buy 60" Elite now because it is a deal that can not be turned down
B) Wait until Panasonic models come out with something comparable in 1 year
C) Wait until backlight 240hz LCDs drop off price and buy a 55" Samsung or something comparable

My impression of 5020 is (without being calibrated since I am still breaking the TV off) it is couple of years ahead of its time due to poor HD quality from cable company and the lack of Blu Ray titles/high Blu Ray prices combination. Watching Dark Knight was amazing but most of my time in the living room is spent watching crappy Uverse HD channels. I don't even turn to SD channels they are so bad.

Please help me make a decision.

Unfortunately I don't think you'll find any other HD TVs that do a significantly better job with low quality HD or SD sources than the 5020.

Also, is Uverse really that bad? I thought it was similar to Fios (which has absolutely spectacular quality compared to Comcast cable).
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post #150 of 524 Old 04-02-2009, 01:29 PM
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hhaller,
I am not familiar with the 600m model is that just the monitor without the speakers or stand? or is it an older model of 151?

chris,
uverse disappointed me real bad because I have seen OTA HD on local channels (I can't get HD in my new house due to abundance of trees) and I was a Tima Warner customer where I used to live. Time Warner sucked when it came to # of HD channels but their HD quality was not as compressed as Uverse. Uverse has numerous HD channels but compression is too much. They have Comcast in this area and I am thinking about switching to that if Uverse HD does not improve. On the other hand I have no experience with Comcast they could be worse than Uverse. The problem I have is similar with other users on here. I got the Pioneer because I thought the PQ will be better than any other TV around but even my old Samsung 42" plasma that I bought 4 years ago shows SD picture on cable better. Sometimes on SD the blacks are so black that you can not make out what the background is on a night scene. I played with the settings (did not calibrate yet) and used D nice settings but it stills seems lousy picture to me. Even the HD on the Samsung looks better (tough the overal HD PQ on Uverse sucks).
Anyway I will not have a DVR in my media room as that room solely will be dedicated to PS3 gaming + Blu Ray home theater movie watching experience. This is the reason I am willing to splash $4k for the 151 before it becomes obsolete. Plus I have always been partial to plasmas as I own 3 in the house and I don't see any other manufacturer other than Panasonic coming close to replciating the picture Kuro has. My only fear is that the 151 price coming down below $4k to $3k since I bought my 5020 for only $1900 from amazon.
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