The Official Panasonic TC-PXXS1 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

The G10 and V10 models have THX modes but when I look at some of their sample cal reports, their triangles all look the same as S1. Am I missing something here? Thanks.

The reports that I've seen for these models are for the Custom mode. It's only the THX mode that is different.

Larry
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post #4412 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Redwolf,

It certainly is not calibration, But, hey, if it looks better to you, why not? It's your set and you've recorded the defaults. So, no, in your case it's not a bad idea. Maybe you can finally enjoy watching the TV.

Larry

Enjoy watching the tv?

...whats that?
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post #4413 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jakejm79 View Post

I will take a look tonight, what is the best content to notice this on? I heard someone mention an all white screen. When I first checked for dead pixels on an all white screen i was up close and I didnt notice anything like that, but in fairness I wasn't at weird angles, the Xmas tree and RB instruments don't allow for much room

A white screen works well, but I can see it in the sky and other light areas also. It looks like diagonal (upper left to lower right) faint grey lines about 3/16 inch apart. They cover the entire screen and for me are visible from about 2 feet to 8 feet. I don't know if a camera would pick it up, but I'll give it a shot.
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post #4414 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Read the manual about VieraLink -- about page 30.

Larry

Thanks. I had originally assumed it had something to do with VieraLink but had forgotten about that as I tried disabling it in the menu and it still behaved the same way. After looking through the manual it looks like I can dig down to some other settings that might work (although I'm curious why disabling VieraLink altogether didn't work in the first place) I'll run by my dad's house tomorrow and see if I can't get the issue resolved.

Thanks again.
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post #4415 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

So I am still trying to get my grayscale as close as possible.

...

As you can see Rdrv and BDrv are higher on his set. So I plugged these in and the green is gone. The set doesnt seem dim at all though, I can notice its about as bright as default normal, but on warm the magenta looks more correct. Is this method a bad idea?

No I don't think it's a bad idea. I too had good improvement with increase blue drv.

I think that unless you calibrate it with a proper meter, the best way to go about this is to trust your eyes. Borrowing someone else's offset may be a good start but I think one can get even better results by fine tuning them further with the grayscale test screen and the rest of the AVSHD tests.
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post #4416 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

The reports that I've seen for these models are for the Custom mode. It's only the THX mode that is different.

Larry

Ahh I see. I guess the THX bug is preventing them from using it so far. THanks.
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post #4417 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Ahh I see. I guess the THX bug is preventing them from using it so far. THanks.

I've been reading a little bit about the firmware fix for the G10 and V10 that fixed the "antique look" the sets had in THX mode. It sounds like most members don't use it because they think its too dark. Kind of like what we have been reading here where people don't like the warm calibration and are using cool or normal.
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post #4418 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank8898 View Post

I just received a 58S1 and everything looks great, especially the movies. However, when watching a football or basketball game, when the camera pulls out to its broadcast view and not an up close view of the players, there is a noticeable lack of sharpness in the image. The quality of the image is not very detailed and there seems to be a little noise within the picture. My 3 year old Sony XBR3 does not seem to have this problem. I'm currently using Ruiz's settings. Is it a problem with DISH network or the TV settings or just the TV itself? Thanks

I noticed this as well but only when I'm watching Comcast Sportsnet New England via D*. I think they call it the halo effect. Its weird I don't notice it on any other channel so I feel like its probably the source and maybe the XBR3 handled it better. I don't think I ever noticed it on the 60u either but that was 8 inches smaller and 768p. What size is your XBR3? FWIW, I also noticed this at Best Buy a few years ago and that was on a Pioneer Elite among others.
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post #4419 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank8898 View Post

I just received a 58S1 and everything looks great, especially the movies. However, when watching a football or basketball game, when the camera pulls out to its broadcast view and not an up close view of the players, there is a noticeable lack of sharpness in the image. The quality of the image is not very detailed and there seems to be a little noise within the picture. My 3 year old Sony XBR3 does not seem to have this problem. I'm currently using Ruiz's settings. Is it a problem with DISH network or the TV settings or just the TV itself? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jponte55 View Post

I noticed this as well but only when I'm watching Comcast Sportsnet New England via D*. I think they call it the halo effect. Its weird I don't notice it on any other channel so I feel like its probably the source and maybe the XBR3 handled it better. I don't think I ever noticed it on the 60u either but that was 8 inches smaller and 768p. What size is your XBR3? FWIW, I also noticed this at Best Buy a few years ago and that was on a Pioneer Elite among others.

Also, I have the 50 inch X1 in the bedroom and I notice the same effect on there. Obviously same source.
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post #4420 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Ahh I see. I guess the THX bug is preventing them from using it so far. THanks.

Yeah my father in law has the G10 and the THX mode is really not impressive. Most are willing to give up the color accuracy because of other things they dont like about it, and use Custom.

Thats terrible lol.
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post #4421 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 07:44 PM
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Just thought I'd add in my factory defaults for warm, manufacture date of October 09:

RCut 80
GCut 80
BCut 80
RDrv E3
GDrv F3
BDrv 88


I'm somewhat concerned with my set and maybe someone can help me out. I don't have a BD player that will read the avs 709 disc. I'm playing it on my 360, am at about 85 hours use now and no matter what I do nothing lower than 19 clearly flashes. Is this likely a problem with my 360s black output like suggested by someone earlier or could it be an issue with my tv? Thanks.
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post #4422 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jponte55 View Post

Also, I have the 50 inch X1 in the bedroom and I notice the same effect on there. Obviously same source.

I am getting this same effect on sports... the zoomed in shots look very sharp and bright(how i like them)

When the camera zooms out, it is not very sharp and is almost grainy. I also notice a lot of camera flashes/screen flashing during games. I think this is most likely the source and I will be contacting directv about this very soon.
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post #4423 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

I am getting this same effect on sports... the zoomed in shots look very sharp and bright(how i like them)

When the camera zooms out, it is not very sharp and is almost grainy. I also notice a lot of camera flashes/screen flashing during games. I think this is most likely the source and I will be contacting directv about this very soon.

Same source. One camera angle looks good. Another camera angle looks bad. And... it's the fault of the carrier??

Larry
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post #4424 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jponte55 View Post

I've been reading a little bit about the firmware fix for the G10 and V10 that fixed the "antique look" the sets had in THX mode. It sounds like most members don't use it because they think its too dark. Kind of like what we have been reading here where people don't like the warm calibration and are using cool or normal.

[snark alert]

Yes, it's probably more that people don't really know what a properly calibrated TV looks like.

It's too 'dark' with no 'pop'. Too... well, you know, too 'warm' like.

In other words, it meets the standards for film and television.

[/snark alert]

Larry
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post #4425 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

A white screen works well, but I can see it in the sky and other light areas also. It looks like diagonal (upper left to lower right) faint grey lines about 3/16 inch apart. They cover the entire screen and for me are visible from about 2 feet to 8 feet. I don't know if a camera would pick it up, but I'll give it a shot.

I think I see what you are seeing, kinda looks like a chain-link fence tho I would say the gap is less than 1/8" Also I can only notice it on a full white screen from less than 2' and when I don't focus on the area, i.e. I can see it out of the corner of my eye but not where I am directly looking (I have tried viewing from many different angles) but then again it could be looking directly at a bright white screen in a dim room makes my eye sight go crazy, lol.
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post #4426 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:01 PM
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I just bought a TC P42S1 and the HDMI ports arnt working with my xbox360!!!! pleasee help, Ive already got one tv yesturday Witnessed the problem, Called both tech Phonelines, xbox and pannys.. nothing.. figured it was the tv, took it back got a Brand new tv... GOt 2 different HDMI cords.. all dont work, same o'l ****, but the xbox works with all hdmi cords with my monitor and other tvs in the house.. doesnt make annnnnnnny sense
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post #4427 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

I am getting this same effect on sports... the zoomed in shots look very sharp and bright(how i like them)

When the camera zooms out, it is not very sharp and is almost grainy. I also notice a lot of camera flashes/screen flashing during games. I think this is most likely the source and I will be contacting directv about this very soon.

What you are witnessing is purely the fault of the source. Providers are using different codecs for compression and this can have a large effect on the end result.

XBOX Live GT: LOTION in BULK
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post #4428 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

[snark alert]

Yes, it's probably more that people don't really know what a properly calibrated TV looks like.

It's too 'dark' with no 'pop'. Too... well, you know, too 'warm' like.

In other words, it meets the standards for film and television.

[/snark alert]

Larry

You're exactly right and compounding this issue is all the hype about LCD. This exacerbates the problem for "us". By us, I mean, us folks who can't agree with warm and cinema mode. I won't argue that it's the industry standard (because it is) however, I just cannot get my brain to enjoy it. It just doesn't jive for me.

For now, I've settled on hybrid settings of Droid's and while it's certainly not perfect, not by calibrators standards, it's great to me.

These are my current settings after some more tweaking:

TV watching:
Service Menu:
Cool: D93
RCUT 80/81/+1
GCUT 80/80/+0
BCUT 80/7F/-1
RDRV F3/F3/+0
GDRV F0/EF/-1
BDRV FC/EB/-17

User Menu:
Standard
Contrast 72
Brightness 55
Color 35
Tint 0
Sharpness 75
Color temp: Warm
C.A.T.S. Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

XBOX 360:
Service Menu:
Cool: D93
RCUT 80/81/+1
GCUT 80/80/+0
BCUT 80/7F/-1
RDRV F3/F3/+0
GDRV F0/EF/-1
BDRV FC/EB/-17

User Menu:
Cinema
Contrast 66
Brightness 59
Color 34
Tint 7
Sharpness 0
Color temp: Cool
C.A.T.S. Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

XBOX Live GT: LOTION in BULK
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post #4429 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

[snark alert]

Yes, it's probably more that people don't really know what a properly calibrated TV looks like.

It's too 'dark' with no 'pop'. Too... well, you know, too 'warm' like.

In other words, it meets the standards for film and television.

[/snark alert]

Larry

I'm with you Larry. I'm more interested in an accurate picture than a picture that's brighter or has more "pop". It really is relative, that's why I was saying when I had the over saturated LCD next to the S1 my eyes were drawn to the LCD. But then I realized that nothing in the real world looks like that. The S1 with cinema and warm really reminds of the image I see when going to a good theater. Granted I watch in a very dark room with little ambient light.

Obviously this has been a hot topic lately and is probably a discussion more suited to another thread.
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post #4430 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Same source. One camera angle looks good. Another camera angle looks bad. And... it's the fault of the carrier??

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95oRANGEcRUSH View Post

What you are witnessing is purely the fault of the source. Providers are using different codecs for compression and this can have a large effect on the end result.



I am surprised more people are not complaining about this. It is VERY DISAPPOINTING since the majority of what I watch is sports. So is it Directv that is at fault here and I need to speak with them? Is there anything they can even do?
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post #4431 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kudar View Post

I am surprised more people are not complaining about this. It is VERY DISAPPOINTING since the majority of what I watch is sports. So is it Directv that is at fault here and I need to speak with them? Is there anything they can even do?


Were you using 720p with the old tv and 1080i for the new tv by chance? A lot of sports programs (epsn, abc, fox) are 720p. If you have the dish receiver converting 720p to 1080i and the tv deinterlacing it again, it will be worse than 720p all the way. Just a thought. My comcast is outputing 720p or 1080i depending on the channel (as it should) and I don't see the problem you are describing. A lot of times, camera man just loses the focus (not uncommon in live sports) momentarily is all I see. Motion overall is much better than my past LCDs.
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post #4432 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

I am surprised more people are not complaining about this. It is VERY DISAPPOINTING since the majority of what I watch is sports. So is it Directv that is at fault here and I need to speak with them? Is there anything they can even do?

You must be old enough to have heard of the 'blame game.' You can try complaining to Directv. But they will blame the network. And if you complain to the network, they will blame Directv.

This is the way of the world. It always has been and it always will be.

Larry
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post #4433 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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I am getting close to pulling the trigger on an S1. Trying to decide between the 58" and the 65". At the primary viewing postion I am exactly 10' from the screen.

I know there are "rule of thumb" recommendations about how far to sit from a 1080p TV, but I am hoping to get a real-world opinion from actual panny S1 owners.

Seem like the obvious answer is that bigger is better, but I don't want to be too close, and see pixel structure or anything else that would detract from enjoying the picture.

Anyone sitting 10' or closer to a 65"? How is it? If you could do it over, would you go with the 58"?

Thanks!
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post #4434 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

I am surprised more people are not complaining about this. It is VERY DISAPPOINTING since the majority of what I watch is sports. So is it Directv that is at fault here and I need to speak with them? Is there anything they can even do?

In many markets (most, really), networks are taking bandwidth away from the HD feed to put up one or more SD digital subchannels. It's often just as simple as too much compression. My local CBS looks great in still or low motion shots. Unfortunately, the picture tends to have problems with fast motion or I'll sometimes see the "shimmering" of the crowd in wide stadium shots.

NBC as a whole revamped their distribution a year or so ago. I've seen a dramatic improvement in Sunday night football and ND broadcasts because of this. Bottom line is that many of these issues are there before the picture even gets to your tv.

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post #4435 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Same source. One camera angle looks good. Another camera angle looks bad. And... it's the fault of the carrier??

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95oRANGEcRUSH View Post

What you are witnessing is purely the fault of the source. Providers are using different codecs for compression and this can have a large effect on the end result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

You must be old enough to have heard of the 'blame game.' You can try complaining to Directv. But they will blame the network. And if you complain to the network, they will blame Directv.

This is the way of the world. It always has been and it always will be.

Larry

So why even have HD service in the first place if it only looks good half of the time ? I am not content with 'just dealing with it'
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post #4436 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Were you using 720p with the old tv and 1080i for the new tv by chance? A lot of sports programs (epsn, abc, fox) are 720p. If you have the dish receiver converting 720p to 1080i and the tv deinterlacing it again, it will be worse than 720p all the way. Just a thought. My comcast is outputing 720p or 1080i depending on the channel (as it should) and I don't see the problem you are describing. A lot of times, camera man just loses the focus (not uncommon in live sports) momentarily is all I see. Motion overall is much better than my past LCDs.

This is my first HD TV. Its a 54S1. I will mess around with 720p but Im pretty sure all Directv channels are converted to 1080i. The receiver converts to whatever the native resolution is for that channel so I doubt this will make a difference.
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post #4437 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kudar View Post

So why even have HD service in the first place if it only looks good half of the time ? I am not content with 'just dealing with it'

Well you have a few options. You could take the S1 back and try to find a TV that handles the issue more effectively. Maybe an LCD could cover up the halo effect better than the S1. Hell, I'm pretty sure at 240hz they're making up most of the picture anyway. Kidding aside, it might be something to seriously think about. Next time the Celtics are on CSN NE I'll hook up an LCD and see if I can see the issue. Another option would be to try OTA. A lot of times getting the feed directly from the broadcaster can provide a better result (less encoding, compression etc). This doesn't help you with ESPN and any regional network you might watch though. And lastly, you could try another provider. If FIOS is around I hear they have a great picture. I think my parents have it and it looked good to me. I don't know if cable would be any better than D*.
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post #4438 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

This is my first HD TV. Its a 54S1. I will mess around with 720p but Im pretty sure all Directv channels are converted to 1080i. The receiver converts to whatever the native resolution is for that channel so I doubt this will make a difference.

D* HR series receivers can convert all resolutions to either 480i, 720p or 1080i. You do this by turning native off in the main menu and only selecting the resolution you want. I would try 1080i and see if it is better. If you have native set to on the receiver will pass whatever is being sent and the S1 will convert it to 1080p. I leave native on. Some people think it slows down channel changing but it doesn't bother me.
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post #4439 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudar View Post

This is my first HD TV. Its a 54S1. I will mess around with 720p but Im pretty sure all Directv channels are converted to 1080i. The receiver converts to whatever the native resolution is for that channel so I doubt this will make a difference.

Huh? Are you saying Directv is converting ESPN 720p to 1080i to 720p before TV gets it? Maybe they do but that doesn't make sense to me.
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post #4440 of 7897 Old 12-08-2009, 11:19 PM
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The boxes can be configured to send 720, 1080, or native depending on the channel

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