Panasonic TC-P42G10, TC-P46G10, TC-P50G10, and TC-P54G10 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I didn't write it down. However, you could calculate it using the 58 ft-l Custom @70 white reading and the on/off CR.

No problem. That's Pioneer 8G 768P type blacks. Nice improvement for Panny.
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post #272 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I didn't write it down. However, you could calculate it using the 58 ft-l Custom @70 white reading and the on/off CR.

0.0079fL or rounded up to 0.008fL.
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post #273 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

No problem. That's Pioneer 8G 768P type blacks. Nice improvement for Panny.

4280 only as the 1150 I have measures 0.004fL (and I've measured the 5080 @ 0.006fL). The measurement for the 1150 has also been confirmed by umr.
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post #274 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

4280 only as the 1150 I have measures 0.004fL (and I've measured the 5080 @ 0.006fL). The measurement for the 1150 has also been confirmed by umr.

Chad mentioned two different meters for black level readings with on being more accurate. Are we talking about readings obtained from the same type of meter? Not questioning the validity of the results, just curious.

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post #275 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

4280 only as the 1150 I have measures 0.004fL (and I've measured the 5080 @ 0.006fL). The measurement for the 1150 has also been confirmed by umr.

I use only magazine measurements, if possible. 0.008 has been constant reading for 8G. If there has been variation in Pioneer performance, variation can also be possible with Panny.
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post #276 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
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Uh-oh... All this time I was hoping these Neo sets would measure 0.006fL in black levels. But the truth is that it measures 0.008. That's not even close to the 2007-model Kuros.

And didn't LAST YEAR'S Panny models measure as low as 0.008? Not good.
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post #277 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Very nice Chad. A few questions though...
  • What are your contrast ratios based on? Pre or post cal? Your post cal measurements do not coincide with your posted contrast measurements (specifically the on/off measurements).
  • Which Custom mode chart is the final calibration? One has the peak light output @ 44fL while the other is 57fL. Both look good but the 44fL would be better because of the gamma dip @ 90% stimuli on the 57fL chart.
  • Did you attempt to reduce the peak light output while in THX mode to be around 32-34fL? I saw the same dip @ 90& with the X1 and almost fixed it when i reduced the User menu Contrast setting and dropping the SM sub-brightness control by 1 click.

Thanks! The CR is all post cal. See my other post about using a different meter.
I used Custom mode with the pic at 70 for most of the viewing. I didn't see any detriment to real images with it at 70, though it's true the gamma graph doesn't look as good there as it does at 56. All these results changed dramatically with window size. I was reminded of my big fiasco with window size on the 9G Elite's ISF mode.
No, I didn't do anything more with THX mode after being so disappointed with it's color. If it wouldn't have had such problems I probably would have finessed THX mode a bit more by reducing the light output a bit.
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post #278 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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post #279 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

I use only magazine measurements, if possible. 0.008 has been constant reading for 8G. If there has been variation in Pioneer performance, variation can also be possible with Panny.

Sorry, but there isn't anything reviewer's for magazines use that is better than what myself and other calibrators on this forum use.
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post #280 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chicote69 View Post

Thank you very much, Chad. Great review.

What about the motion (600hz, 24p sources, etc...)? Do you test anything?

Thanks.

NOTE: I'll buy a TV in 2 months. I liked buy a LCD (no LED) but now I like a NeoPDP. Could you think that these NeoPDP are better than all LCDs no LED? Thanks

Glad to do it. Well, the pans and motion seemed normal to me. I didn't go into alot of depth with that, though. I did feed it 1080p/24 from the Blu Ray player.
It was definitely not as smooth as the Samsung because I had the Samsung's 120Hz on low. Even on low it makes pans and motion very smooth; maybe too smooth.
Yes, I do think this set was better than any conventionally backlit LCD I've seen.
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post #281 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Glad to do it. Well, the pans and motion seemed normal to me. I didn't go into alot of depth with that, though. I did feed it 1080p/24 from the Blu Ray player.
It was definitely not as smooth as the Samsung because I had the Samsung's 120Hz on low. Even on low it makes pans and motion very smooth; maybe too smooth.
Yes, I do think this set was better than any conventionally backlit LCD I've seen.

Thank you.

So I'll buy the V10 (42" in Europe) and I'll save a lot of money, because the Philips 9664 that I liked, will be very expensive.
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post #282 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
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Didn't CNET mention that you cant tweak the Greyscale with the S1 in their Review? i need to read it again
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post #283 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Didn't CNET mention that you cant tweak the Greyscale with the S1 in their Review? i need to read it again

It can be done in the service menu, just not the user menu.
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post #284 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Sorry, but there isn't anything reviewer's for magazines use that is better than what myself and other calibrators on this forum use.

Fair enough. I have read dozen 8G 786P reviews with ~0.008 calibrated blacks, so you have to give value also for those readings.
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post #285 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

Fair enough. I have read dozen 8G 786P reviews with ~0.008 calibrated blacks, so you have to give value also for those readings.

I can agree with that.
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post #286 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

And didn't LAST YEAR'S Panny models measure as low as 0.008? Not good.

Typical performance was 0.015-0.016ft/L. 0.008 must have been one of those special performing units.
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post #287 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

Typical performance was 0.015-0.016ft/L. 0.008 must have been one of those special performing units.

I've seen both the 800 and 85 measured at about .008fL
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post #288 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige View Post

I've seen both the 800 and 85 measured at about .008fL

...Which would mean that this year's Neo PDP's black levels are no deeper than last year's models. Of all things, that's exactly what I didn't want to hear. I'm hoping someone could say I'm wrong.
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post #289 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:21 PM
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Chad says the detaisl were the same with the Panasonic and the Samsung though in the pics the Samsung's Shadow detail looks worse than the G10.

At this point i don't know what to buy. it appears the G10 offers same black levels as 08" Panasonics?

Can some help me!?!
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post #290 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:27 PM
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Curious about two things, anyone can respond:

1) How hot does a G10 run after being on for say an hour?
2) What video media (if any) can you play off SD cards? I watch a lot of anime so that's an important feature to me.
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post #291 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

Chad says the detaisl were the same with the Panasonic and the Samsung though in the pics the Samsung's Shadow detail looks worse than the G10.

At this point i don't know what to buy. it appears the G10 offers same black levels as 08" Panasonics?

Can some help me!?!

Chad and D-Nice perform a great service to all on this forum by providing tech data. But I'm sure that both of them would admit that the overall opinion of a display is very subjective. 2 calibrators or 2 reviewers can bear different opinions on the same display, even with the same data. That's why you have to make your own decision on what actually looks better to you.

For me, the night picture of the buildings was very conclusive. When I viewed the lighted street scene below the building, it was a world of difference. The details brought out by the Panasonic were "night and days difference"(pun intended)as the Samsung struggled.

For me it's just not the raw data, it's also the brand. For me, Panasonic TV's are a proven performer, Samsung's were a problem for me.
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post #292 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

...Which would mean that this year's Neo PDP's black levels are no deeper than last year's models. Of all things, that's exactly what I didn't want to hear. I'm hoping someone could say I'm wrong.

I think this year is an improvement. My PX80 is about 0.014
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post #293 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

Curious about two things, anyone can respond:

1) How hot does a G10 run after being on for say an hour?
2) What video media (if any) can you play off SD cards? I watch a lot of anime so that's an important feature to me.

All panasonics have the ability to play SD stills, but the G-10 offers the ability to play video on SD/SDHC cards. I'm buying an HD camcorder, so I like that feature.


You won't have any heat problems.
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post #294 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:39 PM
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Once again, for what reason would anyone go with a G10 over an S? If THX is s a bust arent they exactly the same other than the fact that you get a Cinema mode with the S?

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post #295 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

Chad says the detaisl were the same with the Panasonic and the Samsung though in the pics the Samsung's Shadow detail looks worse than the G10.

At this point i don't know what to buy. it appears the G10 offers same black levels as 08" Panasonics?

Can some help me!?!

On the scenes I concentrated most on I thought the G10's shadow detail was a little dark like the Samsung, but I think it may have been a result of the ABL and the slight brightness stability issue in the G10. Maybe those factors cause some (low Average Picture Level) scenes to have good shadow detail and other scenes (high APL) to lose shadow detail. Come to think of it, I know one scene I used to formulate my opinion was high APL- the blue helicopter against the white cloudy sky at the beginning of the DVE montage. I thought the underside of the helicopter was too dark.
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post #296 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

On the scenes I concentrated most on I thought the G10's shadow detail was a little dark like the Samsung, but I think it may have been a result of the ABL and the slight brightness stability issue in the G10. Maybe those factors cause some (low Average Picture Level) scenes to have good shadow detail and other scenes (high APL) to lose shadow detail. Come to think of it, I know one scene I used to formulate my opinion was high APL- the blue helicopter against the white cloudy sky at the beginning of the DVE montage. I thought the underside of the helicopter was too dark.

I know this would void warranty if it is even possible, but I wonder if ABL can be nudged for a little more head room in the SM.

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post #297 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

They should have gone with 72 Hz instead of 48.

Great review, thanks, very impressive ANSI!

I look forward to seeing how the V-Series performs - according to the Viera site they'll be using 96Hz.

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post #298 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Once again, for what reason would anyone go with a G10 over an S? If THX is s a bust arent they exactly the same other than the fact that you get a Cinema mode with the S?

I would love to know the answer to this, too.
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post #299 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by speedking View Post

Chad and D-Nice perform a great service to all on this forum by providing tech data. But I'm sure that both of them would admit that the overall opinion of a display is very subjective. 2 calibrators or 2 reviewers can bear different opinions on the same display, even with the same data. That's why you have to make your own decision on what actually looks better to you.

For me, the night picture of the buildings was very conclusive. When I viewed the lighted street scene below the building, it was a world of difference. The details brought out by the Panasonic were "night and days difference"(pun intended)as the Samsung struggled.

For me it's just not the raw data, it's also the brand. For me, Panasonic TV's are a proven performer, Samsung's were a problem for me.

Atleast i'm not the only one who thinks the same

No more Samsungs for me! Bad service, broke on me twice and atleast to me all samsungs crush black.

I'm getting a G10 and never coming back to AVS
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post #300 of 9993 Old 03-12-2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Once again, for what reason would anyone go with a G10 over an S? If THX is s a bust arent they exactly the same other than the fact that you get a Cinema mode with the S?

Again, the difference between the G and S series:

THX

Can watch video from SD cards

VGA port

Viera internet

worth $200? Dunno.
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