Panasonic TC-P42G10, TC-P46G10, TC-P50G10, and TC-P54G10 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 171 - AVS Forum
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post #5101 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Has anyone with an older G10 that has some hours on it noted inflated black levels yet? I'm not sure how many people would be able to notice this difference unless they use it exclusively in a windowless or blacked out environment. Considering how unexceptional the AR coating is, the inflation isn't really bad enough to overpower any ambient light whatsoever.

Yeah i have noticed the same thing, i bought my set back in march and about two weeks ago, i noticed that the blacks looked a bit lighter in the letter box bars, i thought i had the set on the wrong setting but i checked several times, so figured it was just my eyes playing tricks on me. My living room is blacked out for the most part, and i usually watch tv in a completely dark or at least mostly dark room. Is this a defect or is this just the nature of this particular set, or is this going to be the nature of all the new neo pdp's from panisonic using this glass. any info would be great thanks.....
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post #5102 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codexavellum View Post

I just got mine too and I been playing lots of 360. I plays Gears of War 2 alot and where it displays your gun in the top right, I notice that stays around when I shut off my Xbox. I watched Step Brothers full screen and I still noticed the image on a black screen (only if I am about an inch away from my TV). This is my first Plasma as well and I am concerned too.

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Originally Posted by Nfactor View Post

I just got my 46" G10 a couple days ago, was watching everything in Game Mode, played my 360 on it for a few hours. But this morning I still saw my Gamertag burned into the screen slighly

I switched to standard video mode with 50 Contrast and 50 Brightness

I just finished watching 2 full length movies, in full mode, but I still see some burn in from my 360 from last night.

Does running that scrolling bar help get rid of burn in? Or do I just need to maybe run a ful screen movie in Game mode to readjust the phosphurs?

Please I need help, since this in my first plasma, and I'm just now seeing the break-in methods

you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
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post #5103 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 10:54 AM
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Hi, I'm a newbie on this board and non-native English speaker so bear with me..

I a little aspect problem with my new 42 inch G10. I should add that I have a BD-60 player hooked up with HDMI. The aspect issue appears when watching non-anamorphic dvd's. Take for instance Tarkovsky's The Sacrifrice... The aspect ratio is 1.66:1, so 14:9 would be the most appropriate aspect ratio. I should note that I have turned overscan OFF.

Before zooming or anything, the image is in a box in the center of the screen like this:



Unfortunately when I try and zoom to 14:9 it squeezes the picture in this weird way and adds panels on each side of the screen:



I should add that Zoom2 mode eats too much of the picture:




Well, I actually solved the problem by changing the output signal from the BD-player from 16:9 to 16:9 FULL but I don't think this makes any sense.

Although this works when watching non-anamorphic dvd's, the problem still occurs when connecting my PC through HDMI. I'm trying to zoom in on a film that has an apect between widescreen and standard but once again I get the same squeezing of the picture as above when switching to 14:9...

What is wrong here? The tv is decoding the HDMI signal in a wrong way, right? What can I do? I cannot find any HDMI settings in the TV's menu.

Maybe I should also add that there are no problems zooming to 14:9 on analogue signals, like VHS and so on.

I really hope that someone can help me sort this out!

Thanks in advance,
Matt from Denmark
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post #5104 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 11:50 AM
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wow....non of my local sears have any more 50G10 in stock. this thing must be flying off the shelves to AVS members.
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post #5105 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

wow....non of my local sears have any more 50G10 in stock. this thing must be flying off the shelves to AVS members.

I purchased mine from Sears Canada a few days ago. They had it on sale for the best price I've seen it at, so I jumped on it. I have to wait a couple of weeks before it reaches the Sears outlet here, but I'm in one of the most remote places on Earth (Whitehorse, Yukon), so that's just the way things are. There is one dedicated audio-video store here, and I tried going there first so I could pick it up right away with a price-match, but they only have the S1's in at the moment. Plus Sears has a better return policy like other big stores, so if the unit has even a minor defect I'd rather deal with them.

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post #5106 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 01:56 PM
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So does anybody have numbers as far as input lag is concerned on the TC-P46G10? It sounds like this may end up being my gaming TV of choice. So far the best LCD I've found has a reported 30-31ms (almost 2 frames) of input lag in the LG 42LH30.

If this Panny only has a single frame of input lag or less, Panasonic can consider it as good as sold to me.

I searched for this topic on the forum, but the results gave me 10 different links to this exact thread. And...with 171 pages in this thread already, I figured that finding this specific info would be like a needle in a haystack. So in advance, I apologize if this was already covered in another part of the forum.
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post #5107 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjanssen83 View Post

So does anybody have numbers as far as input lag is concerned on the TC-P46G10? It sounds like this may end up being my gaming TV of choice. So far the best LCD I've found has a reported 30-31ms (almost 2 frames) of input lag in the LG 42LH30.

If this Panny only has a single frame of input lag or less, Panasonic can consider it as good as sold to me.

I searched for this topic on the forum, but the results gave me 10 different links to this exact thread. And...with 171 pages in this thread already, I figured that finding this specific info would be like a needle in a haystack. So in advance, I apologize if this was already covered in another part of the forum.

Number for the G15(I think it should be about the same as the G10)

1080P Standard mode



1080P game mode



480i Standard mode




480i game mode




I managed to get image retention during the test & I was able to get rid of it in no time with the scrolling bar.


If you're searching for the fastest panel click here
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post #5108 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 02:29 PM
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Thanks for the results.

I can deal with 20-30ms of lag, but anything above 35-40 can be noticeable in certain games. In games like Rock Band or Guitar Hero where the slightest lag can be a problem, they always have built in calibrators to compensate for lag.
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post #5109 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

In games like Rock Band or Guitar Hero where the slightest lag can be a problem, they always have built in calibrators to compensate for lag.

Actually, those are the only two games I'm aware of that have those features. Many other games (fighters/FPS) require fast processing, but those types of games obviously cannot implement such features. Having said that, these Panasonic plasmas have very respectable input lag numbers. Can't wait to get my G10!

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post #5110 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 04:55 PM
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I'm not a fan of fighting games, but I can see how it would be an issue. Playing FPS on my Samsung A650 which is known to be one of the worst for input lag (60ms in movie mode) the only game I've noticed lag was Killzone 2, but switching to game mode (25-30ms) was fine. Mind you, I'm not the biggest gamer and don't really play competitively.
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post #5111 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmafan09 View Post

Blu-Ray,video games,HD cable,all look nice on this set.I agree with you that no tv is perfect,but the flaws I mentioned should not be considered nitpicking.All of my previous sets do not have vertical lines running down the screen,and the other issues that I mentioned.If my replacement set has these issues too,then I'll learn to live with it.Hardly anybody else mentions these lines,which makes me think that my set is defective.It doesn't hurt to have a tech come out and have a look at my set.

It doesn't hurt to have a tech come over, thats true. I'm interested in knowing what the tech says too, so I would appreciate it if you post back on his comments.

As for not many people mentioning the issue...

Well I think all of these televisions buzz, even those who say there's don't. The buzzing needs to be heard in a very silent room though, so I think some people merely don't notice it even though its there.

Another issue that these sets have is that lines can be extrapolated. For example, in a boxing ring. In a boxing ring you have four sides with 3 ropes on each side. Well these ropes go "through" the boxers. I don't know how televisions process signals, but the television is superimposing the ropes onto the boxers which is actually very annoying. I think I've read through most of this thread and this issue was brought up by one person and a few people commented that it is a known issue with Plasma's.

I knew this issue before I bought my set, but if I hadn't read through this thread I would have thought something was seriously wrong with my set. I'm a boxing fan so I'll just have to deal with it, but this set is I believe, the best television you can get for the money.

This "line" issue can happen with other things, like window blinds, but its super obvious with something like boxing.
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post #5112 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DMSUCHY View Post

Very cool jcity, I bought a Denon 1910 the other night but have to wait another week before it ships, got a killer price on it though. I also am running a 5.1 Klipsch set up, but have a SC1, ss.5s for the rear and have to decide between my SB2s or a recent ebay buy of RB-51s and a KSW 12. Any issues with the Denon and the G10?

No issues at all with 1803. It does not have HDMI but has plenty of Digital (Optical) inputs. So the BD60, TV and Cablebox are connected to it. For speakers I did all 4 tower (SF2) and SC1 for center.

You will enjoy a lot (especially the movies) once the setup is done.
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post #5113 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 08:55 PM
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So on Saturday afternoon I had Kevin Miller come to calibrate my G10. He calibrated my set from a cold 7250 to as close as neutral 6500 K. Though the G10 does deliver a great picture, I just couldn't set the settings to get the best contrast possible. He said the G10 has the most accurate colors under THX mode. Custom and Standard he said have some gross errors in color, but it can be used for bright environments since THX isn't as bright.

It took about an hour and a half to calibrate the unit; he calibrated mainly my ps3 bluray playback, then he calibrated my cable that connects to my HD-DVR. After my TV was calibrarted, THX now has a lot more pop and dark skin is no longer greenish. But the lack of brightness does make some dark scenes harder to see or a little flatter in contrast. So I can use custom, and get a beautiful picture.

I'll post my current settings if you'd like to try it on your set, but keep in mind mine has been adjusted to as close as reference standard.

Custom:
Contrast: 75
Brightness: 65
Color: 45
Tint: 1
Sharpness: 50

THX:
Custom: 64
Brightness: 100
Color: 52
Tint: 1
Sharpness: 50

Both: have Color Temp: warm 2

If you're in the tristate NY area, and you'd like to have your plasma calibrated, you can reach Kevin Miller at kevin [ a t ] isftv.com
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post #5114 of 9991 Old 08-02-2009, 11:49 PM
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Hey guys, can anyone tell me if these 2009 G10 series models have noticable dithering? I sit about 5 ft. away from the screen for gaming usually, and this would be a definite issue for me if these panels still have to use dithering to display some colors.
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post #5115 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I'm not a fan of fighting games, but I can see how it would be an issue. Playing FPS on my Samsung A650 which is known to be one of the worst for input lag (60ms in movie mode) the only game I've noticed lag was Killzone 2, but switching to game mode (25-30ms) was fine. Mind you, I'm not the biggest gamer and don't really play competitively.

I found Killzone 2 to be unplayable on my 52a750 in movie mode, even in game mode it was hard to play, but with this Panasonic 54g10, I have no problems playing it. Lag isn't an issue on these Panasonic models.


Dude-X, there is no way that brightness at 100 can be accurate, it will brighten the black bars in movies considerably. (once you hit 71 on my set, black bars start to dither, which means that they aren't black anymore, the entire picture washes out long before you hit that point.) Unless he did something in the service menu, there is something wrong with that setting. (he might have set black levels to dark, which is another mistake since all it does is crush details, it doesn't make the blacks darker)

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post #5116 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindman View Post

Hey guys, can anyone tell me if these 2009 G10 series models have noticable dithering? I sit about 5 ft. away from the screen for gaming usually, and this would be a definite issue for me if these panels still have to use dithering to display some colors.

Yes, it still use dithering. It won't be as sharp or clear as a LCD screen.

Though LCD suffer from bad motion & bad color gradation.
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post #5117 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quick question for my PS3:

I just got the TX-P42G10 and I have some settings on my PS3 I'm not quite sure about, I've googled it but it seems to differ what the settings are supposed to be on for each TV, so regarding the G10 what should these be on:

Cross Color Reduction Filter: On/Off
RGB Full Range (HDMI): Full/Limited
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): On/Off


Thanks
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post #5118 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet323 View Post

Quick question for my PS3:

I just got the TX-P42G10 and I have some settings on my PS3 I'm not quite sure about, I've googled it but it seems to differ what the settings are supposed to be on for each TV, so regarding the G10 what should these be on:

Cross Color Reduction Filter: On/Off
RGB Full Range (HDMI): Full/Limited
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): On/Off


Thanks

CCRF - I forget, but I haven't touched this setting so I would leave it default.

RGB Full Range - Limited. Full is for PC monitors and/or TV's with the ability to switch between full and limited. Full is 0-255 (0 is black and 255 is whitest white) and Limited is 16-235 (where 16 is black and 235 is the whitest white). All TV's are 16-235 and some have the ability to switch between both; I don't think the G10 can and even if it could, Limited is preferred. If you set it to full and your TV is expecting limited levels, you will be clipping black and white detail.

YCbCr super-white - Enable this.
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post #5119 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

CCRF - I forget, but I haven't touched this setting so I would leave it default.

RGB Full Range - Limited. Full is for PC monitors and/or TV's with the ability to switch between full and limited. Full is 0-255 (0 is black and 255 is whitest white) and Limited is 16-235 (where 16 is black and 235 is the whitest white). All TV's are 16-235 and some have the ability to switch between both; I don't think the G10 can and even if it could, Limited is preferred. If you set it to full and your TV is expecting limited levels, you will be clipping black and white detail.

YCbCr super-white - Enable this.

Thanks for the quick reply
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post #5120 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 11:05 AM
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So from what I've gathered from looking at the pictures posted above, the G15 in standard 1080p mode has an average amount of input lag between 19-21 milliseconds? And in 1080p game mode, it has an average amount of input lag between 21-22 milliseconds?

Sorry if that question sounds newbish, but I am a newb to the HDTV world in general.
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post #5121 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prozak View Post

It doesn't hurt to have a tech come over, thats true. I'm interested in knowing what the tech says too, so I would appreciate it if you post back on his comments.

As for not many people mentioning the issue...

Well I think all of these televisions buzz, even those who say there's don't. The buzzing needs to be heard in a very silent room though, so I think some people merely don't notice it even though its there.

Another issue that these sets have is that lines can be extrapolated. For example, in a boxing ring. In a boxing ring you have four sides with 3 ropes on each side. Well these ropes go "through" the boxers. I don't know how televisions process signals, but the television is superimposing the ropes onto the boxers which is actually very annoying. I think I've read through most of this thread and this issue was brought up by one person and a few people commented that it is a known issue with Plasma's.

I knew this issue before I bought my set, but if I hadn't read through this thread I would have thought something was seriously wrong with my set. I'm a boxing fan so I'll just have to deal with it, but this set is I believe, the best television you can get for the money.

This "line" issue can happen with other things, like window blinds, but its super obvious with something like boxing.

prozak,the "line" issue you brought up is NOT the issue I spoke about.What you're talking about is called Line Bleeding,all plasmas have this but some hide it better than others.It has never been a problem for me,personally.The lines I'm talking about are vertical bands the cover the screen.They are very visible whenever a camera pans,which is often,so it is extremely annoying.
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post #5122 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjanssen83 View Post

So from what I've gathered from looking at the pictures posted above, the G15 in standard 1080p mode has an average amount of input lag between 19-21 milliseconds? And in 1080p game mode, it has an average amount of input lag between 21-22 milliseconds?

Sorry if that question sounds newbish, but I am a newb to the HDTV world in general.

Exactly, that's how it should be read. Though it may not have changed in 1080P but it reduced in 480i by 10ms.
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post #5123 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Exactly, that's how it should be read. Though it may not have changed in 1080P but it reduced in 480i by 10ms.

Nice to see CRT tests Mr. Deap. I got very similar results on the G10 cloning my laptop--though I didn't try anything less than 1080p. I'll add your post to this other thread to.
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post #5124 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude-X View Post

So on Saturday afternoon I had Kevin Miller come to calibrate my G10. He calibrated my set from a cold 7250 to as close as neutral 6500 K. Though the G10 does deliver a great picture, I just couldn't set the settings to get the best contrast possible. He said the G10 has the most accurate colors under THX mode. Custom and Standard he said have some gross errors in color, but it can be used for bright environments since THX isn't as bright.

It took about an hour and a half to calibrate the unit; he calibrated mainly my ps3 bluray playback, then he calibrated my cable that connects to my HD-DVR. After my TV was calibrarted, THX now has a lot more pop and dark skin is no longer greenish. But the lack of brightness does make some dark scenes harder to see or a little flatter in contrast. So I can use custom, and get a beautiful picture.

I'll post my current settings if you'd like to try it on your set, but keep in mind mine has been adjusted to as close as reference standard.

Custom:
Contrast: 75
Brightness: 65
Color: 45
Tint: 1
Sharpness: 50

THX:
Custom: 64
Brightness: 100
Color: 52
Tint: 1
Sharpness: 50

Both: have Color Temp: warm 2

If you're in the tristate NY area, and you'd like to have your plasma calibrated, you can reach Kevin Miller at kevin [ a t ] isftv.com

Good feedback, thanks.

- Matt
Panny 42" G10
Onkyo TX-SR605
PS3 60Gb
Axiom M3 v2
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post #5125 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 12:36 PM
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Many thanks to Mr.Deap and Orta for the input lag information on the Pannys.
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post #5126 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 05:00 PM
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After a session of gaming, If I watch a movie and a black screen is up I can still see some IR. This is if I am sitting up close of course. Is this a problem?
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post #5127 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I found Killzone 2 to be unplayable on my 52a750 in movie mode, even in game mode it was hard to play, but with this Panasonic 54g10, I have no problems playing it. Lag isn't an issue on these Panasonic models.


Dude-X, there is no way that brightness at 100 can be accurate, it will brighten the black bars in movies considerably. (once you hit 71 on my set, black bars start to dither, which means that they aren't black anymore, the entire picture washes out long before you hit that point.) Unless he did something in the service menu, there is something wrong with that setting. (he might have set black levels to dark, which is another mistake since all it does is crush details, it doesn't make the blacks darker)

You're right, I wrote the numbers according to the sheet he gave me. Just switch Contrast with Brightness. Custom is correct as it ithough.
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post #5128 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codexavellum View Post

After a session of gaming, If I watch a movie and a black screen is up I can still see some IR. This is if I am sitting up close of course. Is this a problem?

Nope. In fact I remember when the unit was brand new leaving the menu on for a few seconds left some image retention. Just the way plasma works.
It's only bad if you see an image when the screen is bright with an image and the after image still shows.

As for dithering, when you get close to the screen, you can see the pixels dancing sometimes. I assume this is probably the pixel orbiter technology to prevent image retention. Sometimes though, even when you're sitting a good distance away you do notice the dithering. However, when I compare this to my brother's Sony LCD, where I'd get some mild dithering, he gets ugly banding, so there's a trade off here.

Plasma is very sharp when you have a 1080p image. I am able to read small text on websites and look at high detail photos without sacrficing quality.

And if you can afford it, get your unit professionally calibrated.
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post #5129 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post


Dude-X, there is no way that brightness at 100 can be accurate, it will brighten the black bars in movies considerably. (once you hit 71 on my set, black bars start to dither, which means that they aren't black anymore, the entire picture washes out long before you hit that point.) Unless he did something in the service menu, there is something wrong with that setting. (he might have set black levels to dark, which is another mistake since all it does is crush details, it doesn't make the blacks darker)


That is on the thx mode.. 100 brightness on the thx mode is way darker than 100 on custom or standard.
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post #5130 of 9991 Old 08-03-2009, 06:31 PM
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No burn in for you... that could actually be dust on your screen creating that appearance. THX has been discussed here extensively. The general consensus is split, some people actually like the dark and yellow look. I for one had my G15 calibrated professionally by Chad B. and he also stated he disliked the THX settings for the same reason as you. He calibrated in Custom Mode and his results had a very THX viewing vibe minus all the drawbacks getting the best part of THX minus the yellow and bland darkness. You know you have a good picture setting when you notice flaws in Blu-Ray presentations that professional video critics note with certain Blu-Ray titles... Like the Black Crushing in the Dark Knight for instance.

Thanks cecoleman. I am loving my g10 not in thx mode. Blu rays are stunning. Unfortunately I'm realizing how inferior time warner hd cable looks. I'll soon switch to Directv. My only lingering concern is when I run the scrolling bar Im noticing two specific small dots (at the bottom middle and bottom right of the screen) that are whiter than the rest of the screen. I have dusted the screen. I don't notice it while watching a movie unless there is a fade to complete white in which case I will faintly notice it. I guess I'm wondering what it is that burn in looks like. In theory I know what it is. From what I've read here it seems like you really gotta try to get burn in on your plasma and I certainly have been very careful. I may have left the occasional blu ray menu on for short periods of time. Thanks in advance.
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