The Official Panasonic 12G Settings/Issues Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post


BTW, I used D-Nice's offset settings on both a 42x1 and a 50x1 and found that even with a colorimeter I could do no better on grayscale.

Larry

Well thanks thats good to know for piece of mind!
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post #632 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 03:51 PM
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I just unboxed my new 50g10 and I'm currently running D-Nice's recommended break-in procedure but I had one question since he didn't specify. Should I use color temp cool1, or cool2? Thanks.
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post #633 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sadmaker View Post

is there a service menu setting that reduces grain? There's honestly too much of it. I have a calbrator coming out and if that doesnt take care of it, I was thinking of diving in the SM when my warranty expires(writing down my settings of course).

I hate to say it, but this grain might be a deal breaker for me. This set is otherwise excellent.

I have asked this question before. I don't believe there is anyway to fix the grain. People can say it's the source but I've looked at the same stuff on other TVs and their noise control does a lot better than the pannies. That said, I find if I sit back just far enough the grain is barely visible. I still notice it from time to time but it does not make me sick. Also, cinema mode does seem to make some of the grain soften up. It's still there but less noticeable. If you do find something that reduces it, please share with us.
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post #634 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 04:51 PM
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Grain is the worst.
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post #635 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 04:58 PM
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Also, I pose a question to the group. Did the grain on your Panny's get better after the first 100 hours. Seems like it did on mine. It was either, that, screwing with the SM offsets, or my eyes got used to it, I'm not sure. I really do not mind the grain the way I used to on this TV.
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post #636 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dabigwaxy View Post

Also, I pose a question to the group. Did the grain on your Panny's get better after the first 100 hours. Seems like it did on mine. It was either, that, screwing with the SM offsets, or my eyes got used to it, I'm not sure. I really do not mind the grain the way I used to on this TV.

I'll say it again. There is no gamma control in the service mode. The 'grain' is due to a distorted gamma curve. Cinema is the only picture mode with a reasonably smooth gamma and therefore no noticable 'grain'. There is nothing that can be done in the service mode about 'grain.'

Larry
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post #637 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by smsnsimba View Post

i just unboxed my new 50g10 and i'm currently running d-nice's recommended break-in procedure but i had one question since he didn't specify. should i use color temp cool1, or cool2? Thanks.

+1
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post #638 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smsnsimba View Post

I just unboxed my new 50g10 and I'm currently running D-Nice's recommended break-in procedure but I had one question since he didn't specify. Should I use color temp cool1, or cool2? Thanks.

I really don't think it matters. I think D-Nice selected Cool for the conditioning period because of the higher default service menu settings. Put it on the Cool setting that looks 'brighter.' Maybe D-Nice will have a comment on it when he posts his g10 offsets.

Larry
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post #639 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by smsnsimba View Post

+1

I went with Cool 2, if that helps.
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post #640 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 10:39 PM
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I would appreciate help from anyone in this forum. I found this website by mistake and have spent the last 2 hours reading all the various posts. As stated above, I'm picking up my new Tv tomorrow. I don't really understand everything that you guys are talking about in here. I really don't want to go into the service menu and all of that because I just don't get all of this. With that being said, is there something I can do to help my new TV's performance besides doing D-Nice's recommended calibration method ?? I would love to do that but I'll probably screw something up and it's just not worth it. I've read a few other websites and some say to use real low contrast the first 100 hours and some say just the opposite. And some say you shouldn't play video games the first 100 hours and some say it doesn't matter. I'm confused and really don't want to screw my new TV up. So, besides doing D-Nice's calibration, is there any advice you guys can give me ? My kids are dying to play video games on it tomorrow but I'll make them wait for a week if it will help the TV perform better. Or should I leave the contrast settings turned down at first. And do I have to do anything right away or do I wait 100 hours before doing anything ? If I'm not going to do D-Nice's calibration, maybe it really doesn't matter what I do ?? I don't know.

I would appreciate any help that you guys can give me. Thanks alot.

Randy
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post #641 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by montanaman View Post

I notice this too on the warm with offsets applied. Just an idea...have not tried it yet...but what if the cuts and drives were all raised by the same amount; maybe 10, 20, or even 30 (not any higher as the green drive would be at its max of FC/FD)?

EDIT...on second thought one could only raise the values by about 5 because the red drive is getting near its max...It was mentioned the drives should not exceed FC per the service manual (though someone had a default of FD on their green drive).

Maybe could just raise the "allcut" and "alldrive" to achieve the same?

EDIT...This would accomplish the same but again could only go about 5 on each because of the red drive.



I have edited my post...on second thought could only raise the values by about 5 to keep the same "ratio" established with these settings and avoid getting a drive too high. And really, 5 is not going to matter much for screen brightness. I do not have a service manual but it was stated not to exceed FCh on any drive.

As mentioned, if anyone "bricks" their set (myself included) while in the SM it is on their own dime. AVS'ers may or may not help, but repair shops have dime collections...

The Samsung LCD's of 2008 had a tricky SM. The first screen when you went in was for "calibration" and if not careful it was easy to push "enter" a couple times and start a calibration sequence which would fail if the right test pattern was not hooked up. Owners then had to find a proper crosshatch test pattern to hook up and run the calibration again. Almost every day for awhile someone was making this mistake.

I would like to someday get the service manual for this set...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroponik View Post

The calibrated warm temp does look very good, but it seems too dark in the darker scenes, and not sure if it's correct, on my set at least.

In the meantime, I have just raised the user brightness and contrast settings, but I believe adjusting the service menu offsets might offer a better picture.

Raising brightness and contrast works to gain back the shadow detail. Changing the offsets could yield a better picture to one's own eyes, it would just not be a D65 calibrated picture. Again, the only caution I am aware of is raising a drive value above FCh.

To adjust WB by eye (loosely termed the calibrated eye method ),one needs a sense of what a "cut" and "drive" do. I am not absolutely sure but I think the "cuts" adjust the low level intensity of a color, and the "drives" adjust the high level intensity of a color (that is how Samsung describes it and they have WB/greyscale adjustment in their user menu. But they use the terms "offset" and "drive").

Is it more fun to use the equipment or talk about it on AVS?
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post #642 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rvig11 View Post

I would appreciate help from anyone in this forum. I found this website by mistake and have spent the last 2 hours reading all the various posts. As stated above, I'm picking up my new Tv tomorrow. I don't really understand everything that you guys are talking about in here. I really don't want to go into the service menu and all of that because I just don't get all of this. With that being said, is there something I can do to help my new TV's performance besides doing D-Nice's recommended calibration method ?? I would love to do that but I'll probably screw something up and it's just not worth it. I've read a few other websites and some say to use real low contrast the first 100 hours and some say just the opposite. And some say you shouldn't play video games the first 100 hours and some say it doesn't matter. I'm confused and really don't want to screw my new TV up. So, besides doing D-Nice's calibration, is there any advice you guys can give me ? My kids are dying to play video games on it tomorrow but I'll make them wait for a week if it will help the TV perform better. Or should I leave the contrast settings turned down at first. And do I have to do anything right away or do I wait 100 hours before doing anything ? If I'm not going to do D-Nice's calibration, maybe it really doesn't matter what I do ?? I don't know.

I would appreciate any help that you guys can give me. Thanks alot.

Randy

Just want to say I think it is a great set (maybe a little owner's bias)
My theory is the upgrade sets give the extra 10-20% for those who want the best.

Be sure to read the first post of this thread if you want to do the perfect break-in process. There are threads debating the whole need for break-in and the way to do it. I opted for the "don't worry too much" approach, and just kept the settings below 50 (watching TV) where they still are because I like them lower. I think my contrast is at 35-45.

I now have 125 hours and just applied D-Nice's offsets. They do help with warm. Before that I used the "cool" temperature setting which I thought looked the best.

Other general advice you will see is keep a full screen picture (no black bars), and vary the channels so the same static logo is not on for more than one or two hours in the beginning.

Is it more fun to use the equipment or talk about it on AVS?
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post #643 of 4419 Old 04-17-2009, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by montanaman View Post

I have edited my post...on second thought could only raise the values by about 5 to keep the same "ratio" established with these settings and avoid getting a drive too high. And really, 5 is not going to matter much for screen brightness. I do not have a service manual but it was stated not to exceed FCh on any drive.

As mentioned, if anyone "bricks" their set while in the SM it is on their own dime. AVSers may or may not help, but repair shops have dime collections...

The Samsung LCD's of 2008 had a tricky SM. The first screen when you went in was for "calibration" and if not careful it was easy to push "enter" a couple times and start a calibration sequence which would fail if the right test pattern was not hooked up. Owners then had to find a proper crosshatch test pattern to hook up and run the calibration again. Almost every day for awhile someone was making this mistake.

I would like to someday get the service manual for this set...



Raising brightness and contrast works to gain back the shadow detail. Changing the offsets could yield a better picture to one's own eyes, it would just not be a D65 calibrated picture. Again, the only caution I am aware of is raising a drive value above FCh.

To adjust WB by eye one needs a sense of what a "cut" and "drive" do. I am not absolutely sure but I think the "cuts" adjust the low level intensity of a color, and the "drives" adjust the high level intensity of a color (that is how Samsung describes it and they have WB/greyscale adjustment in their user menu. But they use the terms "offset" and "drive").

Hi Randy,

Get it out of the box, plug it in and watch it. Play video games on it. Spare you and your kids the agony of watching a dim TV by candlelight or a slideshow in vivid mode for 100 hours. Don't stress about image retention or the D-nice settings. Just turn the thing on and enjoy it.

It has a pixel orbiter which helps to prevent image retention (ir). It also has a scrolling bar function which helps to wipe (ir) away if you need to. As long as you do put the DVR or game console on pause and walk away for 6 hours, you'll be good.

If you find you are unhappy with the look of the TV, then you can think about the D-Nice settings. I know D-Nice wants you to do the 100 hour break in. I didn't, I used his settings, and I'm happy with the results.
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post #644 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rvig11 View Post

I don't really understand everything that you guys are talking about in here. I really don't want to go into the service menu and all of that because I just don't get all of this. With that being said, is there something I can do to help my new TV's performance besides doing D-Nice's recommended calibration method ??

I just ordered my TV today, but I have been on this forum for about a month now reading everything I can.
From what I understand the point of the break in process is so the plasmas really ages uniformly. The point of this is so when you set your settings later your TV has had time to go through all the colors and is experienced with them. This is suppose to allow a better calibration after the break in time.
Thats really the reason to do it. Just watching TV or playing games doesn't have the same colors over the full screen. So some part of your screen (plasma) well be use to blues, while others is more use to yellows.

So you aren't hurting your TV by using it out of the box, it just means your TV COULD be a little better after the breaking time. For me I plan on doing the breaking in for a 100 hours. After that I'll think about doing the last 20.

If you have a breaking day (run the slide show for 4-5hours) then play some games the next day, you should be fine. Then just repeat. Until you get around a 100 hours.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what I think this all about.
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post #645 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rvig11 View Post

I would appreciate help from anyone in this forum. I found this website by mistake and have spent the last 2 hours reading all the various posts. As stated above, I'm picking up my new Tv tomorrow. I don't really understand everything that you guys are talking about in here. I really don't want to go into the service menu and all of that because I just don't get all of this. With that being said, is there something I can do to help my new TV's performance besides doing D-Nice's recommended calibration method ?? I would love to do that but I'll probably screw something up and it's just not worth it. I've read a few other websites and some say to use real low contrast the first 100 hours and some say just the opposite. And some say you shouldn't play video games the first 100 hours and some say it doesn't matter. I'm confused and really don't want to screw my new TV up. So, besides doing D-Nice's calibration, is there any advice you guys can give me ? My kids are dying to play video games on it tomorrow but I'll make them wait for a week if it will help the TV perform better. Or should I leave the contrast settings turned down at first. And do I have to do anything right away or do I wait 100 hours before doing anything ? If I'm not going to do D-Nice's calibration, maybe it really doesn't matter what I do ?? I don't know.

I would appreciate any help that you guys can give me. Thanks alot.

Randy

Randy,

I never used D-nice's break in. I just plugged it in and watched it,the kids played Wii games and we watched many DVD's. I have over 200 hours now and have had no problems with IR.

I played a lot with the user settings on the remote but never entered the SM (except to check hours)
I love watching this TV! Every time I turn it on I am so impressed! Watching the Masters last week was Awesome!

I know the info here can be very helpful and using d-nices's settings will improve you set but for me I am very happy with what I did or did not do

Lucky
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post #646 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rvig11 View Post

I would appreciate help from anyone in this forum. I found this website by mistake and have spent the last 2 hours reading all the various posts. As stated above, I'm picking up my new Tv tomorrow. I don't really understand everything that you guys are talking about in here. I really don't want to go into the service menu and all of that because I just don't get all of this. With that being said, is there something I can do to help my new TV's performance besides doing D-Nice's recommended calibration method ?? I would love to do that but I'll probably screw something up and it's just not worth it. I've read a few other websites and some say to use real low contrast the first 100 hours and some say just the opposite. And some say you shouldn't play video games the first 100 hours and some say it doesn't matter. I'm confused and really don't want to screw my new TV up. So, besides doing D-Nice's calibration, is there any advice you guys can give me ? My kids are dying to play video games on it tomorrow but I'll make them wait for a week if it will help the TV perform better. Or should I leave the contrast settings turned down at first. And do I have to do anything right away or do I wait 100 hours before doing anything ? If I'm not going to do D-Nice's calibration, maybe it really doesn't matter what I do ?? I don't know.

I would appreciate any help that you guys can give me. Thanks alot.

Randy

The main purpose of break-in isn't to prevent image retention, but to "age" the new phosphors uniformly in the first 100 hours when they tend to change the most. This way, when you apply D-Nice's offsets, you'll be pretty close to the D65 industry standard. That's the main purpose.

It's a method to basically get a free calibration. Either way, your TV is going to look great and IR is a non-issue unless you abuse it. You can always pay for a professional calibration later to obtain the d65 standard and completely avoid break-in. As for me, I'm about 18 hours into break-in on my new TV. This should coincide nicely for when D-nice posts his offsets probably sometime this week. I can't wait!

edit: Changed D57 to D65. Apologies, I got a little mixed up with the names of transmembrane cellular receptors...whoops.
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post #647 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 04:10 PM
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Some of you still seem to believe that the service menu is nothing more than a hidden user menu. That is a misconception.

If you want the most accurate picture possible for the X1 series TV, use the setttings posted by D-Nice. True calibration is not about getting a picture that looks "good" to you but rather to reproduce the intent of the cinematographer's choice of film stock; the lens used; the color/diffusion filters employed; the lab work performed; and, of course, the lighting. Calibrating is based upon engineering measurements and is not involved with personal perceptions.

If you don't appreciate accuracy or if you want something that is inaccurate but pleases you, simply misadjust the user controls -- there are plenty of ways to do that without going into the service menu. Or, better yet, go buy a very inexpensive LCD and enjoy it.


And smsnsimba, it is D65.

Larry
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post #648 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 04:42 PM
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just to clarify,

is the break-in period 120 hrs of straight slideshow and so on? No turning the TV off or using it for other purposes for 5 days with those settings?

Or do you just gotta log 120 hrs with that slideshow and d-nices settings.

This procedure would be to get the best possible results
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post #649 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Some of you still seem to believe that the service menu is nothing more than a hidden user menu. That is a misconception.

If you want the most accurate picture possible for the X1 series TV, use the setttings posted by D-Nice. True calibration is not about getting a picture that looks "good" to you but rather to reproduce the intent of the cinematographer's choice of film stock; the lens used; the color/diffusion filters employed; the lab work performed; and, of course, the lighting. Calibrating is based upon engineering measurements and is not involved with personal perceptions.

If you don't appreciate accuracy or if you want something that is inaccurate but pleases you, simply misadjust the user controls -- there are plenty of ways to do that without going into the service menu. Or, better yet, go buy a very inexpensive LCD and enjoy it.


And smsnsimba, it is D65.

Larry

Come on Lar,

I used the D-nice settings and my own tweaks and got a better picture (to my taste). It allowed for greater control then was currently allowed on the regular settings menu.

I, like most folks, could care less about true calibration. I'm not really trying to figure out if 3 or 5 point lighting was used when I watch "Die Hard". I could care less about film stock or the cinematographer's intent. Maybe I'll take you up on your LCD comment. My next TV will be 120 hz with the strongest dejudder strength possible.
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post #650 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 05:40 PM
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Thank you for reinforcing my post.

Larry

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Originally Posted by dabigwaxy View Post

Come on Lar,

I used the D-nice settings and my own tweaks and got a better picture (to my taste). It allowed for greater control then was currently allowed on the regular settings menu.

I, like most folks, could care less about true calibration. I'm not really trying to figure out if 3 or 5 point lighting was used when I watch "Die Hard". I could care less about film stock or the cinematographer's intent. Maybe I'll take you up on your LCD comment. My next TV will be 120 hz with the strongest dejudder strength possible.

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post #651 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 06:10 PM
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I'm trying to adjust my cinema settings on my p50x1. I'm using the warm setting. I have the contrast on 65, and the brightness on 73. I notice the whites get intense on commercials with the white background on hd. Is there anyway to adjust the whites on the tv only?
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post #652 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jbarns View Post

just to clarify,

is the break-in period 120 hrs of straight slideshow and so on? No turning the TV off or using it for other purposes for 5 days with those settings?

Or do you just gotta log 120 hrs with that slideshow and d-nices settings.

This procedure would be to get the best possible results

Just log 120 hrs. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to do that, the increments you choose to leave the tv on is up to you. Some people leave it on continuously just to speed up the process. Also, the 120 hours don't need to be spent exclusively on the slideshow, you can watch regular programming and movies and such, just try to keep it full screen with contrast, britghness, etc below 50.
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post #653 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by smsnsimba View Post

As for me, I'm about 18 hours into break-in on my new TV. This should coincide nicely for when D-nicee posts his offsets probably sometime this week. I can't wait!

Did I miss where he said he was posting settings this week?
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post #654 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick1000 View Post

I'm trying to adjust my cinema settings on my p50x1. I'm using the warm setting. I have the contrast on 65, and the brightness on 73. I notice the whites get intense on commercials with the white background on hd. Is there anyway to adjust the whites on the tv only?

I think brightness at 73 may be too high
I have a G10 and my brightness is currently at 50
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post #655 of 4419 Old 04-18-2009, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dabigwaxy View Post

Come on Lar,

I used the D-nice settings and my own tweaks and got a better picture (to my taste). It allowed for greater control then was currently allowed on the regular settings menu.

I, like most folks, could care less about true calibration. I'm not really trying to figure out if 3 or 5 point lighting was used when I watch "Die Hard". I could care less about film stock or the cinematographer's intent. Maybe I'll take you up on your LCD comment. My next TV will be 120 hz with the strongest dejudder strength possible.

It would be a great benefit to this thread if you do end up returning your 8th tv in 3 years. I'm sure you would be a perfect fit for the LCD forum.
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post #656 of 4419 Old 04-19-2009, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeffs386 View Post

I think brightness at 73 may be too high
I have a G10 and my brightness is currently at 50

What picture mode are you using? Isn't brightness only for black levels?
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post #657 of 4419 Old 04-19-2009, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUfan77 View Post

Did I miss where he said he was posting settings this week?

He posted about 2 weeks ago stating that he planned to have a G10 by the end of the week so I'd assume his offsets would soon follow. I also PM'ed him last week and he said it would be sometime this week so I anticipate soon.

At this point, all we can do is be patient. They'll definitely be up very soon.
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post #658 of 4419 Old 04-19-2009, 08:26 AM
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D-Nice posted in the 5020 vs 50G10 that the power supply in his 42G10 died and seemed to indicate that he didn't currently have one of this line at his disposal.

daj

Symmetry is the most boring and unimaginative form of balance.
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post #659 of 4419 Old 04-19-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick1000 View Post

What picture mode are you using? Isn't brightness only for black levels?

custom for everyday viewing
THX for blu rays

I keep my brightness at 50
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post #660 of 4419 Old 04-19-2009, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUfan77 View Post

Just log 120 hrs. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to do that, the increments you choose to leave the tv on is up to you. Some people leave it on continuously just to speed up the process. Also, the 120 hours don't need to be spent exclusively on the slideshow, you can watch regular programming and movies and such, just try to keep it full screen with contrast, britghness, etc below 50.

Sounds good, thanks!
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