The Official Panasonic 12G Settings/Issues Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

wheres the contradiction?

I don't want to start another p!s$ing contest. I just think "almost rivals" and "can't compete" say two very different things.

To almost rival means not only to match but almost exceed. To be unable to compete insinuates they are in separate leagues and they are not even close.

Clearly the Pioneers are better at blacks. I am just trying to get a grip on how much. It sounds like the panny is "black enough". It is the color issue that I am more interested in. Service mode calibration may be the great equalizer here and make the S1 more viable than the G10 regardless.

I will also pay my respects to D-nice. I won't be a hypocrite and only point out things that bug me. You do provide a great service to this forum and I thank you for that for what it is worth.

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post #92 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xPUNGENTODORx View Post

Ok, I hate to do this and go back to page 1, but I'm trying to understand this break in time on the tv. I currently have 66hrs on my set and all of which were watched on the standard/vivid mode, with the last 5 hours or so on some custom settings I obtained from the owners thread.

In order to do a proper break in (please correct me if this is all messed up) I should do this... I need to buy/download one of the two recommended break in discs/software? Then turn on tv for the first time and run this program at the given settings for 120hrs? Then I'll be able to apply the final settings for optimal viewing?

Will I ever be able to use these final pic settings if I start with this break now or not because I've been watching tv for 66hrs already?

Please forgive my ignorance...

The settings D-nice is posting is only for sets that went through the exact same break-in period. If your set did not go through the same break-in period, the settings might not give you the same results. That's it.

The real question is - are you happy with your set? If yes, don't sweat it too much. I can only tell the difference between a properly calibrated set and a set with minimal tweaking if they're side by side... so it's really up to you.
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post #93 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

wheres the contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I don't want to start another p!s$ing contest. I just think "almost rivals" and "can't compete" say two very different things.

To almost rival means not only to match but almost exceed. To be unable to compete insinuates they are in separate leagues and they are not even close.

Clearly the Pioneers are better at blacks. I am just trying to get a grip on how much. It sounds like the panny is "black enough". It is the color issue that I am more interested in. Service mode calibration may be the great equalizer here and make the S1 more viable than the G10 regardless.

I will also pay my respects to D-nice. I won't be a hypocrite and only point out things that bug me. You do provide a great service to this forum and I thank you for that for what it is worth.

no problems,

The reason I asked was because "nearly" rivals, implys that it is not a rival. meaning it is does not compete.

If he would have said it "rivals" alone, then I would agree.
That would imply that it competes.
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post #94 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 07:02 PM
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It may be covered in your review D-Nice, but overall, what percentage improvement for that set, at that time, was made between pre and post. Or for most of us noobs, maybe it can be broken down into a few quick categories.
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post #95 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 07:19 PM
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D-Nice,

Those are fine looking gamma and luminance plots for the X1. What source and measuring hardware did you use?

Larry
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post #96 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:22 PM
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I got into the SM, but need to know what number to push on the remote after the two blue menus come up.
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post #97 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal scott View Post

I got into the SM, but need to know what number to push on the remote after the two blue menus come up.

It was linked on the previous page dude
Quote:
Be careful! To see how much time the tv has been on:

The Panasonic TC-P50X1 service menu is easy to get to. For the most part, you should not access it. Doing so can supposedly harm your TV in many bad ways if you don't know what you are doing. However, a lot of new owners want to know how many hours their new Plasma TV has. You can either keep track of the number of hours you have on the TV, or you can find the information in the Service Menu.

It took me a while to finally find out how to access it to determine this, but here is how.

1. On the TV itself, hold down the Vol - Button
2. While holding the volume button down, press info on the TV remote three times. Wait. Depending on what mode you are in, you will notice the display change. Two blue windows will appear in the upper left portion of your screen. This is the service menu. Keep reading if you want to know how to determine the number of hours on the set.
3. Now press the 2″ button on the remote. This will pull up a window with the word SRV-TOOL
4. Press the OK button on the remote. A light blue grid will appear.
5. On the Grid, cursor down (using the remote down arrows) to the row labeled PTCT
6. Cursor to the right. It should be an empty box.
7. Hold MUTE for 3 seconds. The amount of time the display has been on will be next to the word TIME this is in hours and minutes.

To get out of the service menu, I just power cycled the TV by holding the power button down on the TV itself.

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post #98 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorfunk View Post

D-Nice - What slide show speed setting should I use for break-in? Thanks for all your hard work!

Slow
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post #99 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryinri View Post

d-nice,

those are fine looking gamma and luminance plots for the x1. What source and measuring hardware did you use?

Larry

pr-655
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post #100 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I don't want to start another p!s$ing contest. I just think "almost rivals" and "can't compete" say two very different things.

To almost rival means not only to match but almost exceed. To be unable to compete insinuates they are in separate leagues and they are not even close.

Clearly the Pioneers are better at blacks. I am just trying to get a grip on how much. It sounds like the panny is "black enough". It is the color issue that I am more interested in. Service mode calibration may be the great equalizer here and make the S1 more viable than the G10 regardless.

I will also pay my respects to D-nice. I won't be a hypocrite and only point out things that bug me. You do provide a great service to this forum and I thank you for that for what it is worth.

You are correct. David's review was contradicting on those two quotes you pointed out.
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post #101 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeM22 View Post

It may be covered in your review D-Nice, but overall, what percentage improvement for that set, at that time, was made between pre and post. Or for most of us noobs, maybe it can be broken down into a few quick categories.

The difference in PQ pre and post calibrating is significant in my eyes. The green in the grayscale has been dramatically reduced and can only been seen on 10% stimuli test patterns. Colors are much more life like and rival the non-Elites post calibration.

That is all you will get from me at this time. If you have a X1, plug in my SM offsets and see for yourself
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post #102 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal scott View Post

I got into the SM, but need to know what number to push on the remote after the two blue menus come up.

1 and/or 2. After that, you can navigate per the instructions on the blue screen.
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post #103 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 09:09 PM
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Just picked up the 42" a few hours ago and the pic is pretty nice.

The break-in process seems like a lot of work, however I want to do it when I'm not using the TV.

For the DVD, it necessary to use HDMI/Components? Or can I just use composite for the break-in? I don't have any extra cables lying around at the moment and want to make due with what's available.
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post #104 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

pr-655

I have to put an exclamation point after that statement. For general information, the cost of one PR-655 spectroradiometer will buy about 15 Panasonic X1 TVs.

Larry
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post #105 of 4414 Old 03-11-2009, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroponik View Post

Just picked up the 42" a few hours ago and the pic is pretty nice.

The break-in process seems like a lot of work, however I want to do it when I'm not using the TV.

For the DVD, it necessary to use HDMI/Components? Or can I just use composite for the break-in? I don't have any extra cables lying around at the moment and want to make due with what's available.

As long as it fills the screen it doesn't matter.
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post #106 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 04:11 AM
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I am not comfortable going into the service menu. How would these calibration settings work if I did not change any of those settings?
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post #107 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You are correct. David's review was contradicting on those two quotes you pointed out.

I didn't really see them as contradictory.
"Deep black levels that nearly rival the all-time champ in that department". That means the black levels were close but not quite as good.
"It couldn't compete with the Kuro" was referring to the overall performance.
Just goes to show you how different people can take different meaning out of the same words.
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post #108 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bsavitz View Post

I didn't really see them as contradictory.
"Deep black levels that nearly rival the all-time champ in that department". That means the black levels were close but not quite as good.
"It couldn't compete with the Kuro" was referring to the overall performance.
Just goes to show you how different people can take different meaning out of the same words.

My deeper problem with the review is that it clarifies for me, after wondering for the last few months, what CNET means by calibration. If they don't go into the service menu and do it right, how can they possibly comment on the ultimate quality potential of the display?
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post #109 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 06:36 AM
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Thanks D-Nice for your time you put in this.

Liking the TV already and more improvement would be gravy.
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post #110 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 06:40 AM
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In case anyone is interested, CNet has posted the review of the 50S1.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...CarouselArea.4
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post #111 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsavitz View Post

I didn't really see them as contradictory.
"Deep black levels that nearly rival the all-time champ in that department". That means the black levels were close but not quite as good.
"It couldn't compete with the Kuro" was referring to the overall performance.
Just goes to show you how different people can take different meaning out of the same words.

Incorrect. That comment was referring to black levels period, not performance in general. Re-read if you need to. Pretty str8 forward stuff here.

Black level: The S1 performed admirably in this area, and if we had to guess (and we do, since we didn't have a direct comparison on hand), it equals or exceeds the black-level performance of the best Panasonic plasmas from last year. Compared with the displays we did have on hand, it couldn't compete with the Kuro, but handily beat the Samsung and compared well with the Sony in terms of delivering a deep shade of black and preserving shadow detail.

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post #112 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 07:58 AM
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TopperMcFly is right -- Mr. Katzmaier clearly contradicts himself with those two statements.
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post #113 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skroh View Post

My deeper problem with the review is that it clarifies for me, after wondering for the last few months, what CNET means by calibration. If they don't go into the service menu and do it right, how can they possibly comment on the ultimate quality potential of the display?

They don't pretend to comment on the ultimate quality of the set. They are trying to do the best job they can with the standard user menu. That's been their MO for several years, and they don't keep it a secret.
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post #114 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

They don't pretend to comment on the ultimate quality of the set. They are trying to do the best job they can with the standard user menu. That's been their MO for several years, and they don't keep it a secret.

I agree, I always view it as more of a preview. I don't think they are trying to pose as a technical expert, pretty up front about that, IMO.
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post #115 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 09:37 AM
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One you are awesome.... I've been running the break in for about 15 days now and so yesterday, i went with your service menu settings exactly as you said to, i am using the cuystom set up tho but its like the green push is nearly gone and the colors are amazing in comparison.... oen question tho... have you tried "store" mode. Im quite content but I am curious... I am worried tho because with how the settings are I haven't seen a hint of IR which makes me very happy. But, im curious if you have ran through the settings on store mode with some boosted electricity pumping thru the display... also thanks soo much for all your help.. the set just keeps getting better and for 799 i think i've done well!

one last thing, does using normal rather than warm make a huge difference.. i still don't see the green push?
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post #116 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

They don't pretend to comment on the ultimate quality of the set. They are trying to do the best job they can with the standard user menu. That's been their MO for several years, and they don't keep it a secret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedking View Post

I agree, I always view it as more of a preview. I don't think they are trying to pose as a technical expert, pretty up front about that, IMO.

I disagree. They post detailed numerical measurements of color temp, gamma, greyscale, R/G/B levels, and they use the terms "before and after calibration." How is that not presenting themselves as giving a detailed technical evaluation of a set? And how is a reader trying to learn about HDTV and make an informed purchase decision supposed to know that their definition of "calibration" is so weak?

If you think that's just ducky, fine for you. But when their review slams the color accuracy of a set I'm interested in buying, the S1, while D-Nice is over here posting DIY service menu adjustments that make an X1 WAY outperform what they saw on the S1, I personally am dissatisfied with their lack of effort and professionalism.
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post #117 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skroh View Post

I disagree. They post detailed numerical measurements of color temp, gamma, greyscale, R/G/B levels, and they use the terms "before and after calibration." How is that not presenting themselves as giving a detailed technical evaluation of a set? And how is a reader trying to learn about HDTV and make an informed purchase decision supposed to know that their definition of "calibration" is so weak?

If you think that's just ducky, fine for you. But when their review slams the color accuracy of a set I'm interested in buying, the S1, while D-Nice is over here posting DIY service menu adjustments that make an X1 WAY outperform what they saw on the S1, I personally am dissatisfied with their lack of effort and professionalism.

Cnet doesn't ever calibrate using the service menu. That's just how they work. Whenever you read one of their reviews, keep that in mind. This is a conscious choice as I'm sure the reviewer is perfectly capable of doing a proper service menu calibration.
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post #118 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Cnet doesn't ever calibrate using the service menu. That's just how they work. Whenever you read one of their reviews, keep that in mind. This is a conscious choice as I'm sure the reviewer is perfectly capable of doing a proper service menu calibration.

Without a doubt, they won't do it because of the voiding of warranty issue.

I'm sure they employ lawyers over there at CNet.
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post #119 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by peteylewis View Post

Without a doubt, they won't do it because of the voiding of warranty issue.

I'm sure they employ lawyers over there at CNet.

Wait a minute I will void my warranty if I go into the service menu and apply D-nice's settings??

I hope not.
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post #120 of 4414 Old 03-12-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Cnet doesn't ever calibrate using the service menu. That's just how they work. Whenever you read one of their reviews, keep that in mind. This is a conscious choice as I'm sure the reviewer is perfectly capable of doing a proper service menu calibration.

But they used to...

From cnet's "How We Test TVs"

"Note that, unlike many of the third-party TV calibrations offered today, such as those available from contractors certified by groups like the ISF, the calibrations performed for CNET TV reviews no longer utilize settings in the hidden "service menus" of televisions."

Symmetry is the most boring and unimaginative form of balance.
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