Pioneer KRP Shipments and Damage Tracking Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

I was shocked at how flimsy the 500m box and packaging was compared to all of my other plasmas.

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Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

is pioneer planning on redistributing with upgraded packing for the next allotment?

So it sounds like my 141's packaging had thicker cardboard than the 600Ms? If so, you think it would be in Pio's best interest to use any extra 141 boxes for the 600M shipments, and just slap a "600M" sticker over the 141 label on the outside. But that would take some effort on Pio's part, something they appear to not care about. I felt that my 141's packaging was fairly sturdy for such a large box.

Roman, any way you can confirm if there is a thickness difference between the 141 and 600M boxes?

I hate to see that some 600Ms are still having challenges arriving intact...

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post #902 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

they carried my last 600m which was cracked and will be carrying the replacement which left yesterday. YRC handled my first one with robert and it was cracked. despite the horrendous event with YRC robert continues to use them and has had some success with 141 deliveries.

I think that you may be trying to simplify things too much. For instance I had a great experience dealing with YRC.

I had a long pleasant chat with a woman in Saint Louis when the tracking page showed that my 600M had arrived in San Jose. She set up a transfer to talk to the local YRC dispatcher dealing with their central office and stayed on the line till I was successfully connected with the San Jose dispatcher during which time we talked about the weather in Saint Louis versus Palo Alto, etc. (When the dispatcher in San Jose got on the line she just listened for a few seconds and when she spoke up she asked if I and the central office woman were friends! )

The San Jose dispatcher was polite and set up a delivery for the next day (yesterday) between 10am and 2pm.

The delivery guy showed up yesterday a bit after 11am and was very polite. The truck was nearly empty, the panel was on a pallet and strapped to the wall. He used a lift-gate to get it out of the truck, carefully dollied it over to my front door and he and I carried it inside. He helped unpack it, and held up one end while I hunted around for the power button, read through the manual and even called Wendy to ask exactly where the power button is located. He and I talked for a while and I gave him a bunch of pointers to AVS Forum and several sponsors since he was curious about how people found TVs to order on the InterNet.

That's three different people in the chain of getting the monitor from the southern California assembly plant, out to Almo Distribution in Wisconsin (unknown carrier) and back to northern California via YRC. Rather than there being "bad carriers" or everything being destroyed on its way out of the assembly plant, we're really probably just dealing with statistics and moderately bad packaging (more on this later). That is, if there are fifty people who come into contact with the panel on its way between the assembly plant and your house and 1 in 30 people don't handle things like this carefully enough, then you get a lot of broken panels.

I don't think that it would do Robert or any dealer any good changing from one carrier to the next any more than it does any of us any good going from one dealer to the next. Sure, if there's actual evidence that one carrier or another has a much higher rate of breakage, then it would make sense. But we really don't have that evidence. We just have a fragile commodity that's rolling the dice too many times.

Now, what would help is A. having better packaging (to increase the odds of surviving any particular encounter) and B. decreasing the number of encounters.

On the packaging: it's not horrible but it's not as good as it probably should be. In particular, the "cushion" of cardboard and styrofoam that's inserted between the outer box and the front of the plasma is actually part of the problem from what I can see. It help transmit a bunp against that face of the outer box to the panel glass. Honestly, if I were designing the box for this piece of equipment, especially given its cost, I'd almost certainly do a double box with an extra panel of heavy cardboard next to the glass, soft foam layers between the outer and inner boxes on that face and between the inner box and the final cardboard cover, and then stiff styrofoam between the final cover and the glass in order to distribute any impact that made it that far across the entire glass.

One decreasing the number of encounters with potential damage: I think that it's time in this InterNet Age to think very seriously about supporting shipments directly from manufacturing facilities to the end customer. The current system is designed to support a Brick and Mortar business model (of which there are still plenty). But more and more transactions are handled on-line by those who are willing to trade off the instant gratification and easy service of buying something in a store against the cost reductions of ordering on line. If Pioneer were planning on staying in business, I would have suggested that they incorporate some form of shipping optimization the next time their contracts with the distributors came up for renewal.

Of course, none of this really helps your frustration or the frustration of the various dealers, distributors, shippers, insurers, and even the Pioneer engineers, some of whom probably read this forum and cry over the last of their labors getting destroyed. But I do think that it's important to understand that we probably aren't dealing with a "bad distributor" or "bad shipper" or "bad dealer". We're just dealing with very crappy odds given the parameters.

So, with all of that said, I hope that you get a nice working panel soon. My girlfriend was aghast at how much the monitor cost and simply didn't know how to comprehend the amount of money she grew up very poor in Communist Romania under the dictator Nicolae Ceau┼čescu and, as a young girl often didn't have food to eat; that'll give you some perspective on life! But when I popped in the BluRay Wall-E which we had previously watched on the old Sony CRT she was awestruck. She still can't understand the cost but she's determined now to "save money" by getting a NetFlix subscription so we make the most of this that we can ... (She's actually a Very Cool Girlfriend(TM). )

Good luck to all. It's off to the owner's forum to me now!

Casey
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post #903 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 11:41 AM
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not bashing the dealer at all, though i wouldnt do business there again. just saying that there were successful 141 deliveries with YRC so im pinpointing the damaged panels as coming from pioneer to the distributor. good to see yours was on a pallet and secured to the side. id give one of my kidneys for mine to show up like that.
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post #904 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 11:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mak99 View Post


Roman, any way you can confirm if there is a thickness difference between the 141 and 600M boxes?

I hate to see that some 600Ms are still having challenges arriving intact...

141 box is better and thicker from what my warehouses told me for sure, but not as good as 6020 and 151 in 60's IMO
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post #905 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 12:23 PM
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Yes!!!!! The R&L guy just delivered my perfect 600m . He called me about 30 minutes ago and was very nice. He stated he would be there in a few minutes. I met him outside and am happy to report it was on it's own pallet (the box had a few scuffs and dings but nothing major). He then cut it off and we both lifted it down. He then offered to help me bring it into the house. I then asked him if I could please open the top to test it and look for cracks. He looked a little undecided but agreed. He stated he would want to be sure if it was his tv which was great to hear. We talked for a few minutes and he even helped me lift one end of the set to push the power switch. I didn't notice any cracks but knew the power on test was the deciding factor. I plugged it in and got the no signal input . He was the best delivery guy I have ever had (I have had some real jerks to be honest). He was nice, courteous, and never gave me any attitude. For that I gave him a tip which he kindly thanked me for and said he was going to have a great lunch now..........lol. So I guess it really does depend on who your driver is as I was very impressed with R&L (Heck you probably have to throw luck in there to be honest as I could of easily had a jerk driver and a tv that was not on a pallet). I wanted to also thank Roman as he delivered again especially when the 600m is very hard to find. That is the third tv I have purchased from him and he continues to impress. Thanks again Roman! You made my weekend .
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Well you made my weekend
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post #907 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

Yes!!!!! The R&L guy just delivered my perfect 600m . He called me about 30 minutes ago and was very nice. He stated he would be there in a few minutes. I met him outside and am happy to report it was on it's own pallet (the box had a few scuffs and dings but nothing major). He then cut it off and we both lifted it down. He then offered to help me bring it into the house. I then asked him if I could please open the top to test it and look for cracks. He looked a little undecided but agreed. He stated he would want to be sure if it was his tv which was great to hear. We talked for a few minutes and he even helped me lift one end of the set to push the power switch. I didn't notice any cracks but knew the power on test was the deciding factor. I plugged it in and got the no signal input . He was the best delivery guy I have ever had (I have had some real jerks to be honest). He was nice, courteous, and never gave me any attitude. For that I gave him a tip which he kindly thanked me for and said he was going to have a great lunch now..........lol. So I guess it really does depend on who your driver is as I was very impressed with R&L (Heck you probably have to throw luck in there to be honest as I could of easily had a jerk driver and a tv that was not on a pallet). I wanted to also thank Roman as he delivered again especially when the 600m is very hard to find. That is the third tv I have purchased from him and he continues to impress. Thanks again Roman! You made my weekend .


wow, first try and very quick. now i feel like im cursed. congrats on the panel though.
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post #908 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 01:03 PM
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wow, first try and very quick. now i feel like im cursed. congrats on the panel though.

I'm sending you "Positive Vibes" for your third panel!

Casey
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I'm sending you "Positive Vibes" for your third panel!

Casey

Everyone is!
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post #910 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 01:35 PM
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On the packaging: it's not horrible but it's not as good as it probably should be. In particular, the "cushion" of cardboard and styrofoam that's inserted between the outer box and the front of the plasma is actually part of the problem from what I can see. It help transmit a bunp against that face of the outer box to the panel glass. Honestly, if I were designing the box for this piece of equipment, especially given its cost, I'd almost certainly do a double box with an extra panel of heavy cardboard next to the glass, soft foam layers between the outer and inner boxes on that face and between the inner box and the final cardboard cover, and then stiff styrofoam between the final cover and the glass in order to distribute any impact that made it that far across the entire glass.

One decreasing the number of encounters with potential damage: I think that it's time in this InterNet Age to think very seriously about supporting shipments directly from manufacturing facilities to the end customer. The current system is designed to support a Brick and Mortar business model (of which there are still plenty). But more and more transactions are handled on-line by those who are willing to trade off the instant gratification and easy service of buying something in a store against the cost reductions of ordering on line. If Pioneer were planning on staying in business, I would have suggested that they incorporate some form of shipping optimization the next time their contracts with the distributors came up for renewal.

Casey

I think the oddest thing about the 500m/600m packaging is that its clearly inferior to other Pioneer plasma models, new and old. Both my 6 gen and 8gen Pioneers were properly packaged. This aint rocket surgery. Lets just say that there is a right way to package a plasma and then there is the 500m/600m way. Its just a very flimsy and cheap way to ship what is essentially a giant sheet of glass.
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post #911 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

wow, first try and very quick. now i feel like im cursed. congrats on the panel though.


Thanks. I had a great dealer in Roman which helped greatly especially if there would have been any issues. To be honest though a lot of it has to do with luck. Like I said in my previous post, I could of had a jerk driver that knocked it over during delivery or a 600m not on a pallet. I admit a lot of things seem to have to fall in line to get a working 600m which is crazy when you think about it. Third times a charm so I am very hopeful for your next set. Don't give up!
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post #912 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 02:05 PM
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The first 600M cracked all over the place. The second one is good.
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post #913 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 02:34 PM
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The first 600M cracked all over the place. The second one is good.

Congratulations and welcome to the forum.
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post #914 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 02:53 PM
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The first 600M cracked all over the place. The second one is good.

where was it purchased from and what carrier?
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post #915 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 04:52 PM
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where was it purchased from and what carrier?

I have a feeling that since that was Poki's first post, and his second panel was good, he may not return back here to post the answers. prove us wrong poki, and welcome to the forum.
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Monitor Outlet and Pilot Air :-)

This is my fourth Plasma screen (42 - 50 - 50 - 60) in 7+ years. Visually the 600M is the best one yet. (It is also very thin.) The buzz is annoying and ranked # 2 on my all time list. I am still burning in the set so hopefully the buzz won't become a major headache once I mount it up with sound absorbing panels left, right, and bottom surrounding the large piece of glass .
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post #917 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 05:53 PM
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welcome to the forums. glad they got you out a good 600M after the cracked one.

sorry your having the buzz issue. the main buzz issue will not be helped with sound panels as it basically is beamed straight froward from the center of the panel toward the center seating position. The best hope is to try using the Powersave 2 option and hope that reduces it enough to not be bothersome.

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post #918 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 06:15 PM
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maybe it could be muzzled by placing something over the back of the panel where the noise is coming from?
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post #919 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 07:32 PM
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maybe it could be muzzled by placing something over the back of the panel where the noise is coming from?

My 500M back panel is perforated for maximum air flow, I would be careful about covering the back of the panel - especially if it restricted the ventilation.

Try one of the energy saver modes to reduce the buzzing...
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post #920 of 1854 Old 05-29-2009, 08:54 PM
 
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aross99 ^^ correct.

Also the buzz anomaly is only heard by a very limited and select slice of the population and is even less of an issue with 50" panels.

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Well, at this point I decided to pull the trigger on the Pro 141 FD.

There's no 600's available currently and I dont want to pass up the opportunity to own a Kuros before they are all gone.
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post #922 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 08:33 AM
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Also the buzz anomaly is only heard by a very limited and select slice of the population and is even less of an issue with 50" panels.

Yes. For instance, I seem to have gotten incredibly lucky. In addition to getting a non-cracked display I also have virtually no buzz even when I put my ear to the back of the set. (And no bad pixels either!) Thanks Robert!

But even if your set does have some small amount of buzz, I'm betting that it would be completely drowned out at normal listening levels.

Casey
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But even if your set does have some small amount of buzz, I'm betting that it would be completely drowned out at normal listening levels.

If that's your bet, you would lose.

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post #924 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 11:25 AM
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Well, at this point I decided to pull the trigger on the Pro 141 FD.

There's no 600's available currently and I dont want to pass up the opportunity to own a Kuros before they are all gone.

Pikka, that's exactly what I did a few weeks back, and have had zero regrets* - the 141 is an amazing panel!

And my guess is that with the majority of the eyes out there, the 600Ms would almost match the 141's performance. If we had room at the house for another 60", I'd gladly roll the dice on a 600M just to get a second Kuro before they are all gone...

Enjoy your 141, and I am keeping my fingers crossed for everyone else still waiting their 600M to be delivered safely...

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post #925 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 03:07 PM
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I wall mounted my 600m last night and wow it really is big. There is no way I could imagine this set on a stand. It looks great on the wall. I posted in the official thread but I had a couple of scares. First the styrofoam/cardboard piece in front put some marks on the screen when I set it up (I assume it was pressing the plastic covering against the screen). Luckily it came off as the screen was pretty filthy in general (what's up with that Pioneer.......lol). Second I noticed a thin line horizontally on the screen. I thought it was a scratch at first so I was pretty upset. It wouldn't wipe off so I just turned on the set to watch a little tv. When I turned it off again, it was gone. I noticed it again towards the bottom about 5 minutes later when I turned off the tv to set some stuff up. You couldn't see it with the set on so I am assuming it was some sort of plasma discharge. Anyway, I haven't seen it (on or off) since and will do my best to stay away from the screen........lol. I really hate the piano finish bezel still. It is way to easy to scratch it (actually every Pioneer I have owned has already had scratches on the bezel straight from the factory or some sort of residue that is a pain to clean off) and the official micro fiber they give you will also put micro scratches on it. It's only really noticeable when you hold a light up to it but it really detracts from an otherwise beautiful tv. Those are my only nitpicks to an otherwise awesome tv. It really makes a huge difference compared to my old 50". My wife is warming up to the size but still thinks it's to big. Not me though .
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Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

maybe it could be muzzled by placing something over the back of the panel where the noise is coming from?

for those owners/panels with a buzz issue it comes directly from the front center of the panel and is basically beamed straight forward out toward the center seating position.

if an owner did have any problematic noise/buzz/hum coming from the rear then it might be possible to reduce/eliminate that with sound absorption materials.

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post #927 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 06:06 PM
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..... But even if your set does have some small amount of buzz, I'm betting that it would be completely drowned out at normal listening levels....Casey

that depends on what the owner considers normal. you would lose a lot of bets to owners in the Pioneer 8G and 9G buzz threads.

and there still is the buzz problem when watching a program/movie and the sound levels are reduced and you get a buzz instead of the intended drama of the quietness/silence.

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post #928 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 07:22 PM
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Well you made my weekend

always good to start the weekend with another good delivery from Roman.

Now it Pens/Wings time.

Sorry Roman I got the Wings

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post #929 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkashoe View Post

just received my krp 600 m. Cracked

Quote:
Originally Posted by yotr View Post

the r&l guy just delivered my perfect 600m

Quote:
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the first 600m cracked all over the place. The second one is good.


updated!
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post #930 of 1854 Old 05-30-2009, 07:51 PM
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As for KRP 600M shipments and damage thread, here is our experience thus far in Arizona.

We received our first 600M without a pallet and it was cracked. The replacement was delivered 3 days ago on a pallet, however it just conked out on us. Now we have a flashing stand/by light. We have done all the usual power down moves, unplugged, plugged in at a different source and manually powered up at the main monitor switch. No luck.
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