Panasonic V10 [NO PRICE TALK PLEASE] - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by _kirk_ View Post

I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "boooo!", but I'm only just now getting around to setting up the new A/V system. Today was also the day some new outdoor furniture arrived, and I had to put a coat of finish on them while the weather was still cooperating.

Heading downstairs now to start the process. First thing is to make sure my A/V cabinet is strong enough to support the new TV...

I'll bring my camera downstairs and take a bunch of pictures.

"Anticipation...anticipation is making me wait" - Carly Simon

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post #362 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by _kirk_ View Post

I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "boooo!", but I'm only just now getting around to setting up the new A/V system. Today was also the day some new outdoor furniture arrived, and I had to put a coat of finish on them while the weather was still cooperating.

Heading downstairs now to start the process. First thing is to make sure my A/V cabinet is strong enough to support the new TV...

I'll bring my camera downstairs and take a bunch of pictures.

You are one lucky dude!!
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post #363 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by okej01 View Post

This is from the V10 manual page 58

Thanks for the links guys.

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post #364 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:07 PM
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what's the biggest or recommended screen size for a 11' x 11' room?

trying to figure out how big a screen i can look into getting... it's been driving me nuts for the last couple weeks now.
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post #365 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nulleffect View Post

what's the biggest or recommended screen size for a 11' x 11' room?

Anywhere between 42" and 65"

Quote:


trying to figure out how big a screen i can look into getting... it's been driving me nuts for the last couple weeks now.

It can only be determined by your viewing distance and your own personal preference.

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Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
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post #366 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:25 PM
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i'd happily go for a 60", but i'm just afraid it's either going to look like crap sitting 7-8' from the screen, or have my eyeballs panning back 'n forth watching a game or action movie.

friend of mine said i was a little crazy and max size would be a 50", but i don't know... ugh.
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post #367 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nulleffect View Post

i'd happily go for a 60", but i'm just afraid it's either going to look like crap sitting 7-8' from the screen, or have my eyeballs panning back 'n forth watching a game or action movie.

friend of mine said i was a little crazy and max size would be a 50", but i don't know... ugh.

There are a lot more knowledgeable people in here then I am. But, from what I have read 50 or 54 inch's should be perfect for that distance.
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post #368 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 09:43 PM
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As I have no HDMI yet to hook the HD DVR up, the only thing I had to test out was Sunday's NHRA race, recorded on a VCR on EP mode (The VCR was going through component). I know, crappy but what can you do?

First, here is the set on our dresser:



I'm not worried about it, this piece of furniture is built like a tank.

Here are some pics, the telecast was 4:3 and the format was on "zoom:"

















Maybe it was the harsh lighting in best Buy, but the V10 seems to be a bit brighter in THX mode than the G10. Brightness and contrast were set to 65 in the majority of the pics.

BTW, my camera's flash made the room bright, for most of the shots the lights were actually off. Plus my camera is pretty noisy at ISO 200 which most of these shots were taken at.

I'll really be able to test it tomorrow, though when I'm able to hook up the HD DVR.
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post #369 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 10:05 PM
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Thanks for the pics hemi ... nice foot in the fifth pic, lol How is the heat coming from the back of the unit? Can't wait to see more.
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post #370 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 10:45 PM
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Many thanks HEMI6point1. Congratulations on the new set
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post #371 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 10:48 PM
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Hi all, I am looking to buy a plasma in the next few months. For a long time, I've considered buying a Panasonic due to its good PQ and price points. I was settling on getting either the 42G10 or the 46G10, but then I thought maybe having the 24P@96Hz was worth stepping up to the V-series(I too wish they had the 42" and 46" available in the U.S.) I haven't seen the 24P@48Hz mode in person(as far as I know), so not sure how bad it really is but seems like most people don't like it so I'm willing to trust their opinion. Honestly, I don't know if I would prefer 60Hz or the 24p, or if the 24p would really matter to me since I'm not familiar with watching in 24p. So, if I step up to a 50", then I could also consider the Pioneer 5020FD especially since their price seems to now be down around the price of the Panasonics. The general consensus seems to be that the Pioneers' PQ are superior to the Panasonics' overall. What would be the reasons I should get the 50V10? Why did you decide on the V10? Thanks
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post #372 of 10489 Old 05-20-2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxsaints View Post

Thanks for the pics hemi ... nice foot in the fifth pic, lol How is the heat coming from the back of the unit? Can't wait to see more.

Wow... I was trying to figure out wtf that was...
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post #373 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiSam View Post

...Why did you decide on the V10?

This was easy for me. I am counting on the 96Hz mode to eliminate the visible flicker. This is a crapshoot, since we still have no idea if V10 solves this. But ultimately for me it came down to the price. I had already decided on the G10 but then found a great deal on the V10. I think I've done enough research that I will be satisfied with my educated guess.
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post #374 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bryanb View Post

I guess I don't understand why increasing the refresh rate would help if you are just repeating frames. For example if the refresh rate is 96hz, the 24 frames would need to be repeated 4x if interpolation is not used, but that seems like it would be the same as 24hz without frame repetition. Perhaps it's my own ignorance of how plasma works though.

Lots of people can see flicker on the screen if the refresh rate is 48Hz. Upping the refresh rate does work and elliminates this flicker. Pioneer use 72Hz (3x24), UK Panasonics use 96Hz (4x24), and you dont here them complaining about flicker/judder. It works.
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post #375 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bryanb View Post

I guess I don't understand why increasing the refresh rate would help if you are just repeating frames. For example if the refresh rate is 96hz, the 24 frames would need to be repeated 4x if interpolation is not used, but that seems like it would be the same as 24hz without frame repetition. Perhaps it's my own ignorance of how plasma works though.

The flicker you see has nothing to do with the 24fps, but it's how fast the TV can paint the screen - which is a sweeping update of each row from top to bottom. If this occurs too slowly, you can detect this painting effect as "flicker". The faster the whole frame is in front of your eyes, the easier it is for your mind to accept it - it's the same reason why 480i TV updates every other row 60 times/second as opposed to every row 30 times/second. It's the same information, but by getting it on the screen in a way that you can't see the frame changes, your mind accepts it.

To your question though, movies filmed at 24fps in fast action, you can see the steping of the frames. I found Saving Private Ryan to be a perfect example of this. If you watch the fast action shots in this film, you can see it.
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post #376 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nulleffect View Post

i'd happily go for a 60", but i'm just afraid it's either going to look like crap sitting 7-8' from the screen, or have my eyeballs panning back 'n forth watching a game or action movie.

friend of mine said i was a little crazy and max size would be a 50", but i don't know... ugh.

Good rule of thumb is to get a TV that's half the size of the distance you sit from it. So if you sit 8 feet from the set (96 inches), 50 inches is a good size.

You can certainly go bigger, but I find that to be a helpful guide when checking TVs out in the store.

Thanks to HEMI6 for posting pictures. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the 50 inch V10.
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post #377 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 06:36 AM
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Please post some side profile pics. How thin is the panel really?

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post #378 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nulleffect View Post

what's the biggest or recommended screen size for a 11' x 11' room?

trying to figure out how big a screen i can look into getting... it's been driving me nuts for the last couple weeks now.

Which screen size? I had the same question before I purchased my HDTV.

I've done a lot of experimentation (out of simple curiosity) and also a lot of reading on the subject. Most of the charts published on the web are either about the limitations of human vision or old theater standards (showing 35 mm film). Film, of course, has higher resolution than HDTV and has no compression artifacts to deal with.

First - room size is not a good metric. It is better to talk about the distance between the viewer's eye and the screen. Those are two very different numbers.

I'd recommend a seating distance between 1.8 and 2.5 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. I'd say 2X is the sweet spot. Again this is an eye to screen measurement NOT a room measurement.

You can get as close as 1.5X which is about the limit of 20/20 vision but in my opinion you'll often see too many flaws, artifacts, video noise at that distance, even with high definition content. Standard definition would look just terrible at that distance.
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post #379 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sirbrillo View Post

Please post some side profile pics. How thin is the panel really?

Here you go, it's pretty thin:

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post #380 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by nulleffect
what's the biggest or recommended screen size for a 11' x 11' room?

trying to figure out how big a screen i can look into getting... it's been driving me nuts for the last couple weeks now.

Quote:


I had the same question before I purchased my HDTV.

I've done a lot of experimentation (out of simple curiosity) and also a lot of reading on the subject. Most of the charts published on the web are either about the limitations of human vision or are old theater standards (showing 35 mm film). Film, of course, has higher resolution than HDTV and has no compression artifacts to deal with.

First - room size is not a good metric. It is better to talk about the distance between the viewer's eye and the screen. Those are two very different numbers.

I'd recommend a seating distance between 1.8 and 2.5 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. I'd say 2X is the sweet spot. Again this is an eye to screen measurement NOT a room measurement.

You can get as close as 1.5X which is about the limit of 20/20 vision but in my opinion you'll often see too many flaws, artifacts, video noise at that distance, even with high definition content. Standard definition would look just terrible at that distance.

Another viewing distance realated thread? Can't we keep this thread on the "V10" topic?
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post #381 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:00 AM
 
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very nice set - i cant wait for reviews on it from you and others hopefully - with pictures - would happen to be able to take a full rear shot of this TV - i would like to add some LED light strip in the rear and not sure if i be able to do it with this model the same way i have with my LCD i have now -

i have it going around the edges of the TV all around - but now i see i have to watch the fans and the TV is not all even - so not sure how i would do it -

if you can take a full rear shot - would be great -
thanks

also please post back if you get any noise or buzz like a few are having with there G10 -
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post #382 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI6point1 View Post

Here you go, it's pretty thin:


Thank you for the side pic. Would you mind measuring the total depth with a tape measure?

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post #383 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI6point1 View Post

Here you go, it's pretty thin:


Are those analog component video cables I see??? You bought a V10 and put component video on it??? Just kidding

I've been drooling over your pictures, Hemi. I love it!!
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post #384 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donee View Post

Another viewing distance realated thread? Can't we keep this thread on the "V10" topic?

Which size V10 to purchase is a very valid concern and an important decision.
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post #385 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiSam View Post

Hi all, I am looking to buy a plasma in the next few months. For a long time, I've considered buying a Panasonic due to its good PQ and price points. I was settling on getting either the 42G10 or the 46G10, but then I thought maybe having the 24P@96Hz was worth stepping up to the V-series(I too wish they had the 42" and 46" available in the U.S.) I haven't seen the 24P@48Hz mode in person(as far as I know), so not sure how bad it really is but seems like most people don't like it so I'm willing to trust their opinion. Honestly, I don't know if I would prefer 60Hz or the 24p, or if the 24p would really matter to me since I'm not familiar with watching in 24p. So, if I step up to a 50", then I could also consider the Pioneer 5020FD especially since their price seems to now be down around the price of the Panasonics. The general consensus seems to be that the Pioneers' PQ are superior to the Panasonics' overall. What would be the reasons I should get the 50V10? Why did you decide on the V10? Thanks

The first thing to understand is that these various 24p playback modes relate only to blu-ray discs. It is a non-issue for cable TV or for over the air broadcasts and 99% of satellite which are all shown in 60HZ. But when playing back a blu-ray disc (recorded natively in 24p) most HDTVs use what is called 3:2 pull-down to display the 24p of blu-ray discs at 60HZ. It works but occasionally you can see a bit of stutter! Now remember every movie you have ever seen on over the air TV or cable or satellite has used 3:2 pull down (60HZ) even though all these movies were originally filmed in 24p. In short you've seen the conversion from film (24p) to television (60Hz) all your life. Did it bother you?

If you watch mostly blu-ray and are a very serious movie purist then either a 72 or 96 Hz mode could well be important because you will eliminate this stutter. Otherwise the 60HZ mode will work just fine. The 48HZ mode of last year's Panasonic was too slow and created some flashing. But last years Panasonics allowed a 60HZ mode which most of us use.

This entire 24p playback issue is one for true purists, serious film goers and serious blu-ray viewers. I don't want to discount it but it needs to be put in context.

Recommendations: I'd get the new Panasonic over the Pioneer. The new Panasonics are brighter and it was only the Pioneer Elites that really excelled.
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post #386 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:48 AM
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2 times screen diagonal is a good size compromise.

I don’t know of anyone who purchased a 60” and wished they had gone for a smaller size, but plenty of 50” owners want to go bigger.
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post #387 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 07:56 AM
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50G10 50V10
Dimensions (H x W x D) without Stand 30.3" x 48.0" x 4.2" 30.5" (774 mm) x 48.9" (1,241 mm) x 3.3" (84 mm) [2.2" (55 mm): exclusive of protruding portion]
Weight (lbs.) w/Stand 75.0 lbs 79.4 lbs
Weight (lbs.) without Stand 70.6 lbs 75.0 lbs

50V10 is heavier than 50G10
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post #388 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daarrid View Post

The first thing to understand is that these various 24p playback modes relate only to blu-ray discs. It is a non-issue for cable TV or for over the air broadcasts and 99% of satellite which are all shown in 60HZ. But when playing back a blu-ray disc (recorded natively in 24p) most HDTVs use what is called 3:2 pull-down to display the 24p of blu-ray discs at 60HZ. It works but occasionally you can see a bit of stutter! Now remember every movie you have ever seen on over the air TV or cable or satellite has used 3:2 pull down (60HZ) even though all these movies were originally filmed in 24p. In short you've seen the conversion from film (24p) to television (60Hz) all your life. Did it bother you?

If you watch mostly blu-ray and are a very serious movie purist then either a 72 or 96 Hz mode could well be important because you will eliminate some stutter. Otherwise the 60HZ mode will work just fine. The 48HZ mode of last year's Panasonic was too slow and created some flashing. But last years Panasonics allowed a 60HZ mode which most of us use.

This entire 24p playback issue is one for purists, serious film goers and serious blu-ray viewers. I don't want to discount it but it needs to be put in context.

Recommendations: I'd get the new Panasonic over the Pioneer. The new Panasonics are brighter and it was only the Pioneer Elites that really excelled.

I do not want to hijack V10 discussions into a comparison with pioneer, but i am also in the market and debating the two. Your last comment in respects of recommending the panny over the pioneer because of its brightness puzzled me a bit. i thought the greatest benefit of plasma over lcd outside of motion fluidity was the ability to produce dark blacks. It's my understanding that the Pioneer kuros - 8g and 9g - still produce darker blacks than the current 12G panasonics.
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post #389 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

I do not want to hijack V10 discussions into a comparison with pioneer, but i am also in the market and debating the two. Your last comment in respects of recommending the panny over the pioneer because of its brightness puzzled me a bit. i thought the greatest benefit of plasma over lcd outside of motion fluidity was the ability to produce dark blacks. It's my understanding that the Pioneer kuros - 8g and 9g - still produce darker blacks than the current 12G panasonics.

To answer your question, you can refer to HDGuru's review of the G10.
hXXp://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/

"Black levels on the G10, Z800 and the Pioneer’s 60” Pro-141 are below my test equipment’s accuracy. However, the Pioneer’s black is deepest, followed by the new G10 with the Z800 coming in last. The deeper blacks of the Pioneer come at a cost. The Pioneer obscures details in some dark scenes where the G10 revealed every nook and cranny using the same dark content.

An example, the interrogation scene in the Blu-ray disc, Quantum of Solace. At times, the basement’s stone walls details were buried into black when viewing the Pioneer, while the textures were always visible on the Panasonic G10."

And in regards to brightness:

"Another area of vast improvement over previous plasmas is its white level uniformity. The G10 brightness is far more consistent across the screen than the 2008 TH46PZ800 or Pioneer’s Pro 141FD (or many LCD flat panels). Ditto for white (color) uniformity. The Pioneer produces light pink tones in parts of the screen while viewing a full white raster pattern. The G10, though not perfect, only slightly deviates from pure white, a change that isn’t significant. You won’t be able to discern differences when viewing content such as a solid blue-sky scene."

Back on topic:

Can't wait for the V10 review. I'm patiently waiting for the 58" size to be released. I have a G10 being delivered today for my downstairs living room, but I want a V10 for upstairs for serious movie watching.
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post #390 of 10489 Old 05-21-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

I do not want to hijack V10 discussions into a comparison with pioneer, but i am also in the market and debating the two. Your last comment in respects of recommending the Panny over the pioneer because of its brightness puzzled me a bit. i thought the greatest benefit of plasma over LCD outside of motion fluidity was the ability to produce dark blacks. It's my understanding that the Pioneer kuros - 8g and 9g - still produce darker blacks than the current 12G Panasonics.

Lets add the limited viewing angles of most LCDs plus poor blacks, plus poor motion handling which I think truly disqualifies them from serious consideration.

However, I don't want to open up another Pioneer versus Panasonic debate.

My Panasonic 58" 800U has extremely dark blacks! CNET cited them as noticeably lower than even a 50" 2008 Panasonic.

Generally on the best HDTVs this spec has gotten a bit exaggerated!!! Any room light will reflect off the screen and lessens the impact of the deepest blacks. In my case, a single 25 watt bulb in the far corner of a very large room begins to wash them out. Don't get me wrong - my blacks are very black but turn on a dim light and black levels do not seem quite as important.

On the very best TVs - Pioneer and Panasonic - I feel lower black levels are a case of diminishing returns. Most viewers will never see how deep these blacks can go because of some ambient room light.

What is often not appreciated is that large plasmas (according to CNET and my personal experiences) can be a bit dim. Add some room light and you could be disappointed. I had to really push my 2008 Panny to get a decent light output with even one light on in the room.

That is one man's opinion - please no Pioneer versus Panasonic debates.

I am simply happy the new Panasonics offer greater luminance (brightness). I plan to buy one.

I'm sure if I had an HDTV with poor black levels this topic would be more important but with top notch sets like the Panasonic and Pioneer I think black levels have become somewhat exaggerated and luminence (peak white - aka brightness) is too often ignored.
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