Panasonic V10 [NO PRICE TALK PLEASE] - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:18 PM
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Most people can't even notice lag on the Samsung LCDs with AMP cranked up, so anyone that can spot lag on a Panasonic plasma, which have some of the lowest lag numbers around, is quite impressive. I find Killzone 2 to be the best lag test, because of how the game has a built in lag to give movement some weight to it, and on a display with lag, it is unplayable. (I could play the game at all on my old 52a630, my Panasonic 42px75 had little to no noticable lag with the game, Guitar Hero 2/3/Aero all showed a lag of 16ms on my Panasonic vs a lag of 65ms on the Sammy (with AMP off)

Still not sure which of the new Panny sets I want to get, but I am leaning toward either the 54g10 or the 58v10 depending on cost... After seeing the diference between a 50inch plasma and a 52inch LCD, even 2 inches is a big difference.

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Old 05-22-2009, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

This is a common and ongoing misconception about the models with the "one-sheet-of-glass design" like on last year's PZ800U/PZ850U and now the new V10. These TVs still have a protective "TUF Display" outer glass over the actual plasma panel module, but it extends to the edges of the cabinet instead of disappearing under a plastic bezel surround like on the other Panasonic models. It's not a "single layer of glass" as you say, it's just that the outer glass is kinda on top of the bezel instead of behind it. Think of it as an "infinity glass" like you see with the infinity pools.

The internal reflection one sees on the Panasonics has existed on every model since their inception back in like 2002. I can only really see it when i'm sitting at extreme angles, somewhat close to the TV, and only on certain content like text over a solid contrasting backround (like movie credits etc). It's very prevalent when looking at these TVs in Best Buy for instance with their demo loops and advertising scenes.

I practically never see it on regular content or from my desk which is off at a 45 degree angle about 8 feet away.

Randy, thanks for clarifying the 1 sheet of glass issue. I have two small children and for me the TUF display is a major selling point. Kirk and Hemi, thanks for the pictures and reviews. I'm very glad to hear about the 24p playback and overall good experience so far. David Katzmaier felt the THX mode on the G10 is too dim. Like others, I'm very curious to hear your opinion about how the V10 handles daytime viewing and if it is possible to adjust the brighness of the THX mode using the advanced picture controls. Thanks again!
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Most people can't even notice lag on the Samsung LCDs with AMP cranked up, so anyone that can spot lag on a Panasonic plasma, which have some of the lowest lag numbers around, is quite impressive. I find Killzone 2 to be the best lag test, because of how the game has a built in lag to give movement some weight to it, and on a display with lag, it is unplayable. (I could play the game at all on my old 52a630, my Panasonic 42px75 had little to no noticable lag with the game, Guitar Hero 2/3/Aero all showed a lag of 16ms on my Panasonic vs a lag of 65ms on the Sammy (with AMP off)

I'll have to pop in my disc that has Geometry Wars on it and see if I notice any lag there.

I was thrown off a bit when I played my first RB2 song on the V10, because it was telling me I was missing notes and yet I was sure I was hitting them. I didn't run the RB2 calibration on the old CRT TV before playing; for all I know, there was lag there and I had just adapted to it, and now that I'm on the new TV, I have to re-adapt.

I'll run the calibration within the game tonight and report back - I'm sure RB2 will be fine after that. I'll be curious to see how other games fare - I'm pretty sure Geometry Wars will be a good test, as I recall playing it at a friends' house a few years back and definitely noticing some lag on his HDTV in comparison to the monitors we'd been playing it on at work.
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jedrgy View Post

_kirk_ I read over my previous post and realized it was kind of harsh. In fact I'm impressed that you noticed the lag. Like I said before most people don't notice.

You can access the calibration from within the game. In RB2 its under game settings I believe. All you do is either tap the drum pad or strum the guitar (depending on which controller you are using) to a click or a bouncing arrow. It will set the delay for both the sound and video.

No worries. My co-worker just gave me the scoop on RB2 calibration - sounds like there's an auto-calibration mode using the guitar controller? Don't know if that's better or worse than manual calibration...
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by _kirk_ View Post

Taking pictures of the picture on the TV just isn't going to do much in representing the picture quality of the set. .

they do it all the time in the projector forum .....
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by _kirk_ View Post

No worries. My co-worker just gave me the scoop on RB2 calibration - sounds like there's an auto-calibration mode using the guitar controller? Don't know if that's better or worse than manual calibration...

If you have the RB2 instruments, the guitar as a little camera in it. In the calibration mode, you point the camera at the screen while the game flashes an image and calculates the lag.

If you have the RB1 or Guitar Hero instruments, there is a manual calibration you can do.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Still not sure which of the new Panny sets I want to get, but I am leaning toward either the 54g10 or the 58v10 depending on cost... After seeing the diference between a 50inch plasma and a 52inch LCD, even 2 inches is a big difference.

I don't know... i am still debating if there is a big enough difference between my current 50" panasonic and one of the newer 54s(g10/v10). I believe there will be a big price differential going from something like a 54g10 to a 58v10.

I still don't think it is absolutely known if the v10's thx mode is "brighter" than the g10's thx mode. If i am wrong on this, please correct me.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeinaustin View Post

I don't know... i am still debating if there is a big enough difference between my current 50" panasonic and one of the newer 54s(g10/v10). I believe there will be a big price differential going from something like a 54g10 to a 58v10.

I still don't think it is absolutely known if the v10's thx mode is "brighter" than the g10's thx mode. If i am wrong on this, please correct me.

I still might just get a 50g10 and wait for the NEO ECO models coming out next year to get a 58 inch or 65 inch, as the g10 is dirt cheap right now.

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Old 05-22-2009, 02:52 PM
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You shouldn't have to Calibrate GH/RB unless the TV just sucks in this regard. The option is there to fix a deficiency (the display or AVR), not because the game itself is tuned incorrectly. The fact that you managed to pick it out on a blind test (no immediate side by side comparison and no real expectation of a problem) is very very worrisome. I would hazard a guess that 99% of people would never be able to notice even ~30ms in a blind test.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post

You shouldn't have to Calibrate GH/RB unless the TV just sucks in this regard. The option is there to fix a deficiency (the display or AVR), not because the game itself is tuned incorrectly. The fact that you managed to pick it out on a blind test (no immediate side by side comparison and no real expectation of a problem) is very very worrisome. I would hazard a guess that 99% of people would never be able to notice even ~30ms in a blind test.

Yeah, it'd be very disappointing if I notice lag in other games. I'll pop in Geometry Wars, Halo 3 and Gears of War this weekend and see if I notice any issues with them.

For all I know, I may just have been off on a particular song on RB2 - it happened on the first song I played, but not the next one.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:05 PM
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I would be especially interested in seeing how Halo 3 fares on this set. I saw that it was mentioned in the UK review with a rather-glowing response. I was dead-set on picking up this TV when available due to that fact alone (I love Halo and need teammates for pushing to level 50). It will be interesting to see your results!

Thank you for all of your responses.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post

Me too Mark. I haven't seen any dates yet, and salespeople tend to not know very much. Future Shop is carrying the C1, U1, X1, and S1 last time I checked, I think all around the 50" size, but I haven't seen any G or V series sets anywhere yet. I'm kind of assuming if they make it to US market by August we might see them in September. Then I'm very curious to see how long the initial pricing lasts before it drops. I don't think I can wait till Nov/Dec!

Edit: It seems that people are speculating the 58 and 65 will arrive sometime in June, but I'm still guessing a month or so past the US release until we see them here.

I got an email today from Panasonic, as I had asked them when the 50" V10 will hit retailers such as Best Buy and here's what the email said:

"Thank you for your inquiry.

Unfortunately we do not have an exact release date as of yet but it will
be available in the next few months.

Thank you for contacting Panasonic.

Thank You,
Panasonic Consumer Support"

So even though it's already out unfortunately it might take a few months to hit retailers...
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:42 PM
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I'd like to know when someone like cleveland plasma is getting the v10 (last I looked they still don't have any listed). they could give us an honest g10 vs v10 side by side comparison.
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Most people can't even notice lag on the Samsung LCDs with AMP cranked up, so anyone that can spot lag on a Panasonic plasma, which have some of the lowest lag numbers around, is quite impressive. I find Killzone 2 to be the best lag test, because of how the game has a built in lag to give movement some weight to it, and on a display with lag, it is unplayable. (I could play the game at all on my old 52a630, my Panasonic 42px75 had little to no noticable lag with the game, Guitar Hero 2/3/Aero all showed a lag of 16ms on my Panasonic vs a lag of 65ms on the Sammy (with AMP off)

Still not sure which of the new Panny sets I want to get, but I am leaning toward either the 54g10 or the 58v10 depending on cost... After seeing the diference between a 50inch plasma and a 52inch LCD, even 2 inches is a big difference.

I think when your talking about KZ2 lag what you mean to say is motion blur as an effect? Not the same as controller action to screen response time.

I hope this thing doesn't have lag, and I see no reason why Panasonic would start now with problems like this.

Regardless I'm going to wait for a few impressions before I take it home. My local store called today and said mine was ready for pickup.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:09 PM
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Kirk have you looked at any sd dvds since many of us have large sd dvd collections.Its a deal breaker for me if the v10 doesnt surpass my 6 year old pioneer 433 cmx which was excellent on sd dvds which was all that was available on a component input

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Old 05-22-2009, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Kirk have you looked at any sd dvds since many of us have large sd dvd collections.Its a deal breaker for me if the v10 doesnt surpass my 6 year old pioneer 433 cmx which was excellent on sd dvds which was all that was available on a component input

Yeah, first thing I popped in was one of my Lord of the Rings DVD's since I didn't yet have any BD. It looks good, but I really don't have much means of comparison other than to the 14 year old CRT that the V10 replaced

I'll be interested to hear some pro reviews and find out if there's any upgrade out of the box in the V10 over the G10 in picture quality. I think there's a greater amount of calibration available, but I could very well be wrong on that.

But after watching some BD content last night, I'm resigned to the fact that I'll feel compelled to update my movie collection to BD where possible. I don't know if that's a knock on the SD playback of the PS3 and display of the V10, or an endorsement for how much better BD is in picture quality...
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:47 PM
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HEMI6point1
did the home theatre installer show up tell us how it looks
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jma108 View Post

I would be especially interested in seeing how Halo 3 fares on this set. I saw that it was mentioned in the UK review with a rather-glowing response. I was dead-set on picking up this TV when available due to that fact alone (I love Halo and need teammates for pushing to level 50). It will be interesting to see your results!

Thank you for all of your responses.

Yea, I will actually be buying this display specifically for its purported lag merits (or lack thereof). Replacing an only 7 month old 650 LCD I'm otherwise pleased with, but is totally unusable for gaming outside its PC mode (which is limited). I'm not sure how much stock we can put into European reviews though because they definitely have a lot of different features (like IFC). Has anyone ran (or stumbled upon) cloned clock tests on any of the '09 Panasonic? Heck, even the '08's for that matter?
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Old 05-22-2009, 06:06 PM
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Bump....Kirk or anyone able to state the VESA on the back...or how far apart the holes are on the back of the set for wall mounting? Thanks L

And it looks like onecall.com has some 50v10s in stock...or through amazon.
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:25 PM
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To anyone who has the 50" V10 already, do you mind measuring how wide the set is? I'd like to compare it to the published dimensions, as I have a space that is very close to the width of the 54" V10.
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bryanb View Post

To anyone who has the 50" V10 already, do you mind measuring how wide the set is? I'd like to compare it to the published dimensions, as I have a space that is very close to the width of the 54" V10.

Well, if that's the case don't they suggest you have about two inches on each side and more then that from the back of the set to the wall? Just for air circulation.

I plan to get the 54V10 and I will have two inches on each side and I thought that was going to be perfect.

Can someone clear this up?
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Old 05-22-2009, 09:37 PM
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Been lurking for some time gathering knowledge. Thank you everyone. Have to vent a little at BB. About a month ago, I was set on buying a Sony lcd. A 46z4100. Just waiting for prices for fall under $1800. 2009 models hit and there we go. Price drop. I see BB online lists them for 1699 and "available at most stores" and "delivery to most areas" So I sign up for their store card to get free financing and put it in my cart, go to check out and........."Not available for delivery in your area, please choose store pick-up" Fine, I have a truck and several stores in 30 mile radius. Guess what.........not 1 to be had within 150 miles. Yada etc.........Panny plasma research leads me to 50g10........hey, less $, better tv.......BB sale under $1500...........GUESS.....NONE to be had. Visited local BB tonight to ask whats up. Salesman says they don't expect any 50g10's till xmas........WTF?.....Asked about v10......clueless. Anyone else have free financing and actual product to sell? Sorry for rant and prices.........just storytelling purposes.
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Old 05-22-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

Well, if that's the case don't they suggest you have about two inches on each side and more then that from the back of the set to the wall? Just for air circulation.

I plan to get the 54V10 and I will have two inches on each side and I thought that was going to be perfect.

Can someone clear this up?

The V10 manual actually states almost 4" on each side:

'Leave a space of 3 15/16 (10 cm) or more at the top, left and right, and 2 3/4 (7 cm) or more at the rear.'

How much does this really matter though? I will have plenty of space behind the set which is where the fans are.
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Old 05-22-2009, 09:47 PM
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So, in the 850U cnet review, David said that:

'We switched off the Digital Cinema Color mode and the two displays came closer to one another, but there was still a pretty noticeable difference.'

with the 800U having the better picture, as we all know.

Can we expect the same results between the G10 and V10? Is is too early to tell? If we switch off DCC on the V10, is the G10 still going to give the better picture like the 800U did? Should it be the same as the G10?
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by inv77 View Post

Bump....Kirk or anyone able to state the VESA on the back...or how far apart the holes are on the back of the set for wall mounting? Thanks L

Bump again. Would love to know the VESA pattern for wall-mounting considerations.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:05 PM
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So, it sounds like the 24p thing is only if you're a hardcore movie watcher (I'm not), and then with blu-ray. But even then, the 60hz option makes it all just fine. Or am I crazy?

According to one of the articles on CNET, the V10 refresh rate was rumored to be 96Hz. Is that right? I can't find that information on the TV specs on Panasonic's web site. Of course 96 isn't a multiple of 30 or 60. I wonder why the TV doesn't do 120 which is a multiple of 24 and 60. Too expensive?

If it is indeed 96, does that mean that TV suffers from the same judder effect that movies shot at 24fps suffer from when played back on 60Hz TVs?
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by parallel View Post

According to one of the articles on CNET, the V10 refresh rate was rumored to be 96Hz. Is that right? I can't find that information on the TV specs on Panasonic's web site. Of course 96 isn't a multiple of 30 or 60. I wonder why the TV doesn't do 120 which is a multiple of 24 and 60. Too expensive?

If it is indeed 96, does that mean that TV suffers from the same judder effect that movies shot at 24fps suffer from when played back on 60Hz TVs?

96Hz is a multiple of 24, which allows it to display 1080p24 without the flicker effect that is found when a Plasma like the g10 tries to play 1080p24. The g10 has 48Hz, which produces a flicker. Some pioneer sets have 72Hz which avoids the flicker, like the v10.
This only applies when the source is 1080p24, which is mostly from Bluray and HD-DVD.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parallel View Post

According to one of the articles on CNET, the V10 refresh rate was rumored to be 96Hz. Is that right? I can't find that information on the TV specs on Panasonic's web site. Of course 96 isn't a multiple of 30 or 60. I wonder why the TV doesn't do 120 which is a multiple of 24 and 60. Too expensive?

If it is indeed 96, does that mean that TV suffers from the same judder effect that movies shot at 24fps suffer from when played back on 60Hz TVs?

The screen can refresh at 48, 60 and 96 Hz.
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bobbvis View Post

Been lurking for some time gathering knowledge. Thank you everyone. Have to vent a little at BB. About a month ago, I was set on buying a Sony lcd. A 46z4100. Just waiting for prices for fall under $1800. 2009 models hit and there we go. Price drop. I see BB online lists them for 1699 and "available at most stores" and "delivery to most areas" So I sign up for their store card to get free financing and put it in my cart, go to check out and........."Not available for delivery in your area, please choose store pick-up" Fine, I have a truck and several stores in 30 mile radius. Guess what.........not 1 to be had within 150 miles. Yada etc.........Panny plasma research leads me to 50g10........hey, less $, better tv.......BB sale under $1500...........GUESS.....NONE to be had. Visited local BB tonight to ask whats up. Salesman says they don't expect any 50g10's till xmas........WTF?.....Asked about v10......clueless. Anyone else have free financing and actual product to sell? Sorry for rant and prices.........just storytelling purposes.

Check out Sears website for G-10's, as they have them for delivery in my area. They are also offering 36month financing this weekend and a rebate for delivery.
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Old 05-23-2009, 08:49 AM
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I didn't see this posted in the thread, but does anyone know when the 54 V-10 will be released and at what price? Thanks
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