Samsung PN**B450 Picture Settings - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1483 Old 08-04-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

So you first say that no one assumes that all the b450 sets are alike, and then you imply that because lat3ncy apparently can't get his to look as good as yours, that must be his fault. Why? Because his set must be the same as yours?

What? That's not really what I said at all, or meant to imply.

He's had 1 return per each model he's owned. Apparently a B430 and a B450. But he's already casting Samsung aside. It's that portion I don't understand. Yeah I can understand the frustration, but in his words - he is giving up.

He tried Dan's settings and they didn't work. Sound to me like he had a similar issue to what I experienced. He said he would try my settings but didn't really post a response, just that he was "giving up." He didn't state whether he tried getting the DVE calibration disc or the AVSHD disc from this forum. No posted pics or anything.

He didn't really give a lot of support info, so it's hard to help.
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post #272 of 1483 Old 08-04-2009, 07:03 PM
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I am sorry guys. I will make it crystal clear.

1. The Samsung B450 gave great color IMHO, they just lack the blacks that I expect. I can't stress the word "I" enough. I watch a ton of horror flicks and to me black level and shadow detail is VERY important.

2. Samsung as a brand is probably very good. There are many many people on here that have had great success and reliability out of them. Personally, I've never owned anything Samsung in my life. I purchased 3 pieces of Sammy equipment in the past 3 weeks, all of them defective. I don't think I am overreacting by not trusting them anymore, PERSONALLY. I have a small econo car and it's not easy taking out my two baby car seats and hauling a big TV every week back to the store. It's my time and I have wasted enough time on returning budget Plasmas.

3. I am basing my judgment by my own eyes as well as my Spyder2 w/ ColorHCFR. I know the Spyder isn't dead accurate but when I calibrate with it, I really like the results and it makes everything look very neutral to my eyes.

4. I tried Dan's settings and they were so far off from reference it wasn't even funny. His screen shots look great, the settings obviously worked on his TV. He was a very cool guy (as with Dwallows) to share settings that might help other people get in the ballpark of reference settings. I also tried Dwallows settings and they were not close to reference either (but MUCH closer). The best I got with this set was with these settings:

Movie Warm2
Contrast 78
Brightness 51
Color 41
Tint 50/50
Sharpness 20

Everything else zero or off with no color temp adjustments. With these setting I would have been 100% happy. But two major things played a part in this. 4 bright red pixels and very poor blacks. And trust me, I made the blacks as dark as I could, even tried crushing them and it did not even come close to the Panny that I had 2 weeks ago, or my current Toshiba CRT. I am throwing in the towel right now, because I can't find a decent priced Plasma with good blacks and accurate colors. I could go out and buy a Panny G10 or Samsung B650, but I did not budget for something twice the price point. When these TV's come down in price or I come to the point when I can justify spending $2000 (Canadian) on a TV, I will have the ideal picture. But for now like I stated be4, I'm throwing in the towel and enjoying my CRT upstairs and LCD Projector in the basement. No hard feelings guys, no loss of respect to anyone. We are all hear to help, right?

-Joe
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post #273 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 09:08 AM
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Great thread guys. Just wanted to chime in that my brand new PN42B450 seems to be similar to dallows, rather than dan's. when using Dan's settings everything seems yellow/redish and rather foggy. flesh tones are very yellow. When using dallows standard settings, everything looks much better.

just my 2 cents.
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post #274 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat3ncy View Post

I am sorry guys. I will make it crystal clear.

1. The Samsung B450 gave great color IMHO, they just lack the blacks that I expect. I can't stress the word "I" enough. I watch a ton of horror flicks and to me black level and shadow detail is VERY important.

2. Samsung as a brand is probably very good. There are many many people on here that have had great success and reliability out of them. Personally, I've never owned anything Samsung in my life. I purchased 3 pieces of Sammy equipment in the past 3 weeks, all of them defective. I don't think I am overreacting by not trusting them anymore, PERSONALLY. I have a small econo car and it's not easy taking out my two baby car seats and hauling a big TV every week back to the store. It's my time and I have wasted enough time on returning budget Plasmas.

3. I am basing my judgment by my own eyes as well as my Spyder2 w/ ColorHCFR. I know the Spyder isn't dead accurate but when I calibrate with it, I really like the results and it makes everything look very neutral to my eyes.

4. I tried Dan's settings and they were so far off from reference it wasn't even funny. His screen shots look great, the settings obviously worked on his TV. He was a very cool guy (as with Dwallows) to share settings that might help other people get in the ballpark of reference settings. I also tried Dwallows settings and they were not close to reference either (but MUCH closer). The best I got with this set was with these settings:

Movie Warm2
Contrast 78
Brightness 51
Color 41
Tint 50/50
Sharpness 20

Everything else zero or off with no color temp adjustments. With these setting I would have been 100% happy. But two major things played a part in this. 4 bright red pixels and very poor blacks. And trust me, I made the blacks as dark as I could, even tried crushing them and it did not even come close to the Panny that I had 2 weeks ago, or my current Toshiba CRT. I am throwing in the towel right now, because I can't find a decent priced Plasma with good blacks and accurate colors. I could go out and buy a Panny G10 or Samsung B650, but I did not budget for something twice the price point. When these TV's come down in price or I come to the point when I can justify spending $2000 (Canadian) on a TV, I will have the ideal picture. But for now like I stated be4, I'm throwing in the towel and enjoying my CRT upstairs and LCD Projector in the basement. No hard feelings guys, no loss of respect to anyone. We are all hear to help, right?

-Joe

The only thing I will touch on is the black level. You can't have expected more for such a budget TV.
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post #275 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

The only thing I will touch on is the black level. You can't have expected more for such a budget TV.

Well, I did expect better from the Sammy since the C1 was the exact same price. The C1 had deep blacks that bled into the bezel at night viewing. This is all I ask when I want deep blacks, otherwise it's distracting and takes me out of the movie. At night, the Sammy has distinctive dark grey black levels and they do not bleed intot he bezel at all. The B430 and B450 were the same, it was not a lemon. My eyes do not lie and I'm sure if you saw a C1 beside a B450, you would agree it has very good blacks in comparison. Either way, you are happy with your Sammy and the black levels are good enough for you. Enjoy your TV Dwallows!
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post #276 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat3ncy View Post

At night, the Sammy has distinctive dark grey black levels and they do not bleed intot he bezel at all.

I don't find this to be true of my set: the black of night does blend into the black of the bezel. Uh, why don't you turn down the Brightness? If that loses shadow detail, there are other things to try, like increasing the Gamma adjustment (with lowered Brightness), or using the Black Adjust control.

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post #277 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 01:54 PM
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I agree with Greg saying your setting probably just needed adjusting. I don't get gray blacks unless it's intended or something with the source. I can't tell you if the blacks blend to the bezel but I would kinda doubt it. Even with the C1. But I won't push the subject. I plan to upgrade end of this year anyway.

I don't think the C1 was out when I was looking either. The comparative model was the X1. And trying to research it seems like the C1 is a step down (slightly) from the X1.
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post #278 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 04:59 PM
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Well, I had two lemons then. Like I said, I was crushing blacks. I was crushing them to outrageous settings like a brightness of zero. The black was still grey. It is a very dark grey but very distinct. The C1 was deep and blended with the bezel perfectly when calibrated properly at a brightness of 52. You can believe me or not, this is what I saw and I am not bias towards any company at all, I liked neither TV .
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post #279 of 1483 Old 08-05-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat3ncy View Post

The black was still grey. It is a very dark grey but very distinct.

Yes, the b450's darkest picture areas are very dark gray and not black. I guess we're dealing with differing user expectations.

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post #280 of 1483 Old 08-06-2009, 07:55 AM
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You think?
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post #281 of 1483 Old 08-06-2009, 11:15 AM
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great thread i have found here.

just picked up a 42b450, with a pricepoint of 599, it is to hard to refuse.

I have inputed dans settings and they look extremely good, I do slightly notice what
some would call a brownish/grayish haze look. I mainly notice this on HDTV broadcasts. It is not bad, and other than that the clarity and colors look great. Ill have to examine this further through media/BD playback.

I also have to agree with some that i have not reached the deep blacks that blend into the bezel. Ill have to play some more. Adjusting the brightness seems to have no effect, as i adjusted it 0 and can still see a grayish black rectangle form, when viewing in completely dark room. perhaps this can be fixed by adjusting the gamma, I currently have it set to 0.

I am quite picky with the colors and qualities of the screen... so many of things pointed out an average viewer wouldnt notice. That said, i think this a great bang for the buck panel.

regarding DANs settings: Under p.options HDMI black levels are you using a normal or low selection?
i didnt see you mention this in your settings.
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post #282 of 1483 Old 08-06-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorioustexas View Post

I have inputed dans settings and they look extremely good, I do slightly notice what
some would call a brownish/grayish haze look. I mainly notice this on HDTV broadcasts. It is not bad, and other than that the clarity and colors look great. Ill have to examine this further through media/BD playback.

also.I am wondering if this haze attributes to greyish appearance on black bars?
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post #283 of 1483 Old 08-06-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorioustexas View Post

great thread i have found here.

just picked up a 42b450, with a pricepoint of 599, it is to hard to refuse.

I have inputed dans settings and they look extremely good, I do slightly notice what
some would call a brownish/grayish haze look. I mainly notice this on HDTV broadcasts. It is not bad, and other than that the clarity and colors look great. Ill have to examine this further through media/BD playback.

I also have to agree with some that i have not reached the deep blacks that blend into the bezel. Ill have to play some more. Adjusting the brightness seems to have no effect, as i adjusted it 0 and can still see a grayish black rectangle form, when viewing in completely dark room. perhaps this can be fixed by adjusting the gamma, I currently have it set to 0.

I am quite picky with the colors and qualities of the screen... so many of things pointed out an average viewer wouldnt notice. That said, i think this a great bang for the buck panel.

regarding DANs settings: Under p.options HDMI black levels are you using a normal or low selection?
i didnt see you mention this in your settings.

I spent a lot of time seeing how dark the screen would go. And even adjusting the Cell Light (which should be 10 always I think... still anyway) it never blended with the bars. Just not going to happen on this type of low end tv. I'd love to see the C1 do it though.

Anyway, if you just bought the set and used Dan's setting you'll need to give the tv time to break in. It could change things and probably will.

I've always set the hdmi to low. And if you use a blu-ray player (I know ps3 does it anyway) it locks out that option.

Back to the black level for a second. I remember when calibrating using the AVSHD disc I was able to get it so the white/gray box in the middle at like 1% or 2% to completely blend with the background. But there was still enough light emitting from the panel to keep it from going totally black. But at least it will blend with the black bars.

BUT, you should be able to get it where you're getting the best from what the set has to offer - which is damn good imo for the price point
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post #284 of 1483 Old 08-06-2009, 09:46 PM
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Ya, i spent some more time tonight trying to see how black i could get it.
I spent time adjusting gamma, contrast, brightness. Not much of a change at all. It always emits a dark grey light. The set actually looks good with a tad of ambient light as of now, as this eliminates noticing any darkgreys giving a good a feeling of nice blacks.

My bluray source is a PS3.. i do have the option of hdmi of black levels normal or low. the low definitely looks better; Seems normal just adds an overall brightness to the set.

What has come to please the eye best for me is:
HDMI playback using Dans settings with a gamma: -1

and using dallows standard mode settings for Digital Air HDTV.

I am gonna try and settle with these settings for a while, then see how it looks after some more hours as the set has probably around 30 hours now.

Is it possible blacks could get darker after more hours?
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post #285 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorioustexas View Post

Ya, i spent some more time tonight trying to see how black i could get it.
I spent time adjusting gamma, contrast, brightness. Not much of a change at all. It always emits a dark grey light. The set actually looks good with a tad of ambient light as of now, as this eliminates noticing any darkgreys giving a good a feeling of nice blacks.

My bluray source is a PS3.. i do have the option of hdmi of black levels normal or low. the low definitely looks better; Seems normal just adds an overall brightness to the set.

You'll have the option available to switch depending on what your output is. If it's a game I think you can change it, but if you play a blu ray it should lock it out. Mine does anyway.
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post #286 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorioustexas View Post

My bluray source is a PS3.. i do have the option of hdmi of black levels normal or low. the low definitely looks better; Seems normal just adds an overall brightness to the set.

HDMI Black Level is not a "preference" option:
  • Normal is for standard "video" grayscale range of 16-235
  • Low is for RGB (computer) grayscale range of 0-255
I believe that the PS3 can be set to output to either standard... the TV should be set to match which mode the PS3 is in.

A mismatch of settings will either severely crush both blacks and whites, or compress the grayscale, making everything looking washed out, with a severe loss of contrast.

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post #287 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

HDMI Black Level is not a "preference" option:
  • Normal is for standard "video" grayscale range of 16-235
  • Low is for RGB (computer) grayscale range of 0-255
I believe that the PS3 can be set to output to either standard... the TV should be set to match which mode the PS3 is in.

A mismatch of settings will either severely crush both blacks and whites, or compress the grayscale, making everything looking washed out, with a severe loss of contrast.

Do you have anything to back this up?

I can tell you based on testing that changing the setting really had no effect on the range when I used the AVSHD calibration disc.
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post #288 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

Do you have anything to back this up?

I can tell you based on testing that changing the setting really had no effect on the range when I used the AVSHD calibration disc.


It is discussed ad nauseum in many of the calibration threads.

It is grayed out when the source is color-encoded (YPbPr) because this is always a "video" source with 16-235 grayscale - so the display sets itself because there is no user choice to be made.

It is selectable when the source is RGB because unencoded full bandwidth color can be used for both video (16-235) and computer (0-255) sources.

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post #289 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 09:52 AM
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I have about 400 hours total now. I use the Dynamic settings with Brightness at 70-75 and contrast at around 60. I have noticed some IR (for maybe not even 10 minutes)but it goes away really fast. I love this Plasma. I mainly use it for gaming at around 60% and SD TV viewing at the other 40%. I also noticed that other peoples settings really dont matter because every Plasma is different.
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post #290 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

HDMI Black Level is not a "preference" option:
  • Normal is for standard "video" grayscale range of 16-235
  • Low is for RGB (computer) grayscale range of 0-255
I believe that the PS3 can be set to output to either standard... the TV should be set to match which mode the PS3 is in.

A mismatch of settings will either severely crush both blacks and whites, or compress the grayscale, making everything looking washed out, with a severe loss of contrast.

I will have to check out what my video settings are on the ps3 and see if there is any noticeable difference. I am pretty sure my HDMI level on my ps3 is set to normal. I never thought about it til now... And this is the source i use to judge black levels mainly.
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post #291 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 10:05 AM
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jcalabria is right, there is a right and wrong setting. Set it wrong, you'll be clipping black and white detail and/or you'll end up with grey blacks. You need to match your color space. Normal (or RGB FULL) = 0-255, Low (or RGB Limited) = 16-235.

The HDMI Black Level setting is only adjustable with RGB sources (generally PC's and video game machines). Most video devices output YCbCr.
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post #292 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 10:09 AM
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I'll test this again tonight if I can remember. I believe my ps3 is set to RGB Limited so according to rahzel HDMI Low would be correct.

right?

edit: this would be both for ps3 gaming and blu ray
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post #293 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

I'll test this again tonight if I can remember. I believe my ps3 is set to RGB Limited so according to rahzel HDMI Low would be correct.

right?

edit: this would be both for ps3 gaming and blu ray

Right.

I recommend setting BR output to YCbCr though as that's the native color space for BR (YCbCr420 16-235). Games/XMB use RGB color space regardless, so if you're more concerned about getting your games looking right, then ideally you would set BR to RGB and calibrate. But if you calibrate with YCbCr and set RGB to Limited, your calibration settings from YCbCr color space should work ok with RGB limited as they both have the same range (16-235).

This is what I'm using with my PS3 and A650 LCD (which is generally the recommended settings):
Blu-Ray output - YCbCr
RGB Full Mode - Limited
YCbCr super-white - Enabled

HDMI Black Level - Low

The Full setting (was not available on launch) was probably introduced for people who use their PS3's with PC monitors which are 0-255 whereas TV's are usually 16-235 (sometimes with choice of 0-255).
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post #294 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 10:34 AM
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Okay.
I'm more concerned with TV and Bluray than gaming.
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post #295 of 1483 Old 08-07-2009, 09:55 PM
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Okay, I've done some tinkering.

Current settings for hdmi via ps3

Standard
Cell Light - 10 (setting to 0 obviously makes the cells darker but I think there's a big impact on the gamma curve)
Contrast - 70 (can't set this for my life)
Brightness - 51
Sharpness - 50
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50

Black Tone - Off
D. Contrast - Low
Gamma - neg 1
Color Space - Auto (confused on this one. TV says Native will set the space to wider than the source, not sure what that means. But Auto seemed to make changing the color settings a little easier
White Balance - default
Flesh Tone - 0
Edge - On

HDMI Level - Low

PS3 Settings
Set to YpbCbPrCr
Cross Color Reduction Filter - off (dunno what it does even)
RGB Range - Limited
Super White - on
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post #296 of 1483 Old 08-08-2009, 07:44 PM
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hi whats up i just hooked up my new samsung and i love it.the only thing is the IR i dont like it happends quick should i wash it everynight?im new to plasmas i WAS a lcd man i was fooled by the bright picture silly me
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post #297 of 1483 Old 08-08-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nola504boy7 View Post

the only thing is the IR i dont like it happends quick should i wash it everynight?

I haven't seen any IR on my pn42b450 yet. As it happens, I noticed that I had had an SD picture with vertical bars on for a whole day, so I turned on the eraser bar this morning for the first time in at least a week. But I couldn't find any trace of IR at all. I wonder why you're seeing it. Maybe you're using some high contrast mode?

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post #298 of 1483 Old 08-09-2009, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I haven't seen any IR on my pn42b450 yet. As it happens, I noticed that I had had an SD picture with vertical bars on for a whole day, so I turned on the eraser bar this morning for the first time in at least a week. But I couldn't find any trace of IR at all. I wonder why you're seeing it. Maybe you're using some high contrast mode?

yea im using dynamic and standard remember i had lcd's before this t.v.so im to a bright picture but the plasma picture is much better than my lcd and the IR goes away very quickly.if i keep my setting on high how long will it take to damage my t.v. the reason i ask is because i buy a new t.v. every 3 years and i love bright pictures but i love the plasma color.also i dont ever pause my movies or my dvr and if i do i turn off the t.v. while its paused
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post #299 of 1483 Old 08-09-2009, 08:56 AM
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is there a Official thread just for this t.v.
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post #300 of 1483 Old 08-09-2009, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nola504boy7 View Post

is there a Official thread just for this t.v.

You're in it.

I don't know how long it would take a high-contrast fixed image to permanently damage the set. I've never heard of it happening to a b450 or a450 model. I've had an a450 since December which has no sign of burn-in, though images can be retained for more than a day.

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