Samsung PN**B450 Picture Settings - Page 40 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1171 of 1501 Old 06-01-2011, 12:23 PM
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Thanks for your continued postings, stereomandan.


How often do you view your panel with the lights out or with very low lights? Seems like you calibrated with more priority given to daylight viewing, hence, my question.

I really hate the grey-blacks of this panel when viewed in low light situations (typical to most avg. Samsung plasma panels, apart from the 58" post-2009 models). Is it safe to say your most recent calibration did not attempt to maximize black level performance?


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post #1172 of 1501 Old 06-01-2011, 02:03 PM
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I use these settings at night as well, and it isn't too bright for me. I wasn't favoring night or day viewing, but I did want to help cut the ambient from daylight with a brighter picture. Perhaps it is due to the smaller size of the screen, but it doesn't bother my eyes at all. Even my movie mode was at 45 ftL, versus my new results of 60 ftL in standard mode. I do prefer a bright picture, but I am not willing to have gray blacks either. I will update as I live with these settings for a while to see if my opinion changes.

I'll have another look at the black level, but I don't remember it standing out as being much raised at all with these new settings. I did have to reduce the brightness from roughly 50 in Movie mode, to around 45 in standard mode to keep black levels where they should be.

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post #1173 of 1501 Old 06-01-2011, 06:31 PM
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Thanks. I'll have to dig back into the settings again. Small monkeying around over the months have left me with some rather odd looking flesh tones. I was going to wait until I picked up the Spears & Munsil disc though, but maybe I'll play around with your settings first.


I'm sure you realize it's a big step to defect from the "movie mode" setting. That's requirement #1 in the videophile rulebook. I hope you are prepared to go on the lam.


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post #1174 of 1501 Old 06-02-2011, 09:58 AM
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LOL

So I had a look at the black level between my movie mode settings , and this standard mode, and I have to say that I had a very hard time telling a difference. If we consider that the Plasma has a constant contrast ratio, then that might explain the small difference in black level performance between movie mode and standard mode. I went from 45 ftL to 60 ftL, a 33% increase in output. At the very low black levels of these Samsung plasma's, a 33% increase in black level will not be very noticeble. I tried very hard to see a difference, and probably would have a hard time with a blind A-B test telling which is which.

I'm always up to try tweaking my displays. I wasn't sure I would be able to hit a nice 6500K grayscale in standard mode, but sure enough, I could. A 33% increase in peak brightness is noticeable, although not by leaps and bounds, but it is there. Also, the primary and secondary locations are not very different from movie mode to standard mode, so there really isn't much drawback for color fidelity. About the only concerns I would have is increased power consumption, and maybe shorter display life.

The attached color gamuts below are from "movie mode" (left) and "standard mode". (right) As you can see, they are very, very close. Neither one it perfect, but this Samsung doesn't allow me much control over the primary and secondary locations. The main lever is tint. So if you are concerned about skintones, tint is your friend, as well as potentially reducing your overall color level. Tint has a huge impact on yellow in these Samsungs, and yellow has a huge impact on skintones.

So count me in as one of those who has fallen off the wagon and jumped to standard mode. Happy tweaking!

Dan
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post #1175 of 1501 Old 06-03-2011, 10:02 AM
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Excellent info. And yes, those ARE close!

Thanks again.


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post #1176 of 1501 Old 07-29-2011, 07:54 PM
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Greetings,

I just calibrated my PN50b450 by using hcfr software and xrite eyeone lite and gamma response is pretty level. I have been DIY calibrating for over two years. Recently, I initially started using the HD DVE disc with the red/green/blue levels even at 100% at 80 ire. I then noticed the other rgb levels at 50, 60, and 70 were not level but were greatly affected when adjusting the contrast and brightness levels during continuous measurements. I kept adjusting the rgb levels at from 50 to 80 ire, and later separately rgb levels from 30 to 40 ire, and the contrast/brightness levels until all rgb levels of the greyscale from 30 to 80 consistently came within 2 percent of 100% levels. This made my gamma a straight flat line and a terrific picture. My highest delta E is 2.5.

I think that all hdtv's have a sweet spot which can be found by adjusting (slowly but surely) the contrast and brightness settings to where rgb levels are consistent between 30 and 80 ire. For example, if your 70 ire has a red level at 95%, adjusting the constrast or brightness may raise this level while not affecting the 80 ire rgb levels. After I completed my adjustments, my 100 ire had a measurement of 40.8 ftL and the 10 ire was exactly .65% of the 100 ire, which may be perfect. I call this the "sweep" method and it involved a lot of trial and error.

The cell light was originally set at 10 - as recommended, but readjusted to 9 to level out a bump in the gamma graph. I also attempted to lower the cell to 8 but the gamma graph just went bonkers.

The following are my settings for a dark room setting. The resulting gamma was 2.36, with static contrast at 1173:

movie mode
cell 9
contrast 87
brightness 53
sharpness 29
gamma 0
color space auto
offset: red 29, green 25, blue 35
gain: red 25, green 25, blue 45
mode warm2
16:9
hdmi black level low
all options off

Good Luck,

Vincentfam

Attachment 218744

Attachment 218745
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post #1177 of 1501 Old 11-25-2011, 09:27 PM
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Warm2 was just a little too dark and dull for me. For those of you that want a little less orange in your picture:
Movie mode
warm1
cell light 9
contrast 89
brightness 51
sharpness 65
color 48
tint 51/49
Gamma 0
color space auto [For a more vivid picture: color space native, color 50, tint 51/49]
cuts Red 29 Green 25 Blue 45
Gain Red 28 Green 25 Blue 29
Screen Fit
All other enhancements off

Calibration was much easier and temperature is at 7000K approximately. The gamma curve is the flattest I have ever seen.

As always,
Vincentfam

Attachment 228903
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post #1178 of 1501 Old 12-04-2011, 06:11 AM
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For a slightly lighter movie mode, see the following link for my settings using cool tone for movie mode: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1377412

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post #1179 of 1501 Old 12-04-2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

My PN42B450 update

O.k., so it's been a while, but I bought a much better meter ( i1pro), and it is giving me much more accurate results than the calibrations I posted before. I decided to move to standard mode to get more brightness and see if I could get a decent grayscale (which I could, see attachments). I now use the settings below for all inputs. Brightness may need to be modified for each input. This gives me a very bright and dynamic picture, with very good color accuracy. Average gamma is 2.30, which works great. My peak brightness is 60 ftL!, good enough for viewing even during the day with windows near my TV. I haven't had any problems with these settings, and the display has the same amount of minimal image retention that it always has had even in movie mode.

As always, results will vary from set to set, but this looks fantastic on my display.

Enjoy!
Dan

Mode: Standard
Cell light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Color: 43
Tint: G44/R56

Advanced settings:
Black tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Gamma: -1
Color space: Auto
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

White balance:
R-offset: 19
G-offset: 25
B-offset: 4
R-gain: 30
G-gain: 25
B-gain: 9

Picture options:
Color tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: off
HDMI black level: normal
Film mode: Auto

(By the way, tint has the largest impact on yellow and magenta, so any big changes to tint will mess with skin tones. The settings above gave me the best balance of yellow, magenta and green)

Appreciate the update (even though I'm posting about this months later).

I tried out these settings the other night for the normal tv watching and I'm not sure I can tell the difference. It's difficult to compare my settings to yours though. I don't have two of the same tv and swapping between content and settings is not easy.

I'll just leave it on those settings and see if my eye can catch anything.
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post #1180 of 1501 Old 12-04-2011, 03:32 PM
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I was wondering do all you guys use 16:9 or screen fit?
I noticed when using 16:9 you don't get the whole picture. I was switching between this and screen fit and using 16:9 it definitely cuts of little part of the left and right image.

I also started to notice that I'm getting a loud buzzing from my tv after owning it for 2 years
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post #1181 of 1501 Old 12-05-2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matryx View Post

I was wondering do all you guys use 16:9 or screen fit?
I noticed when using 16:9 you don't get the whole picture. I was switching between this and screen fit and using 16:9 it definitely cuts of little part of the left and right image.

I also started to notice that I'm getting a loud buzzing from my tv after owning it for 2 years

Pretty sure I use 16:9. I would've thought screen fit would zoom/shrink the image as needed.

I could be wrong though. Screen fit could be correct.
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post #1182 of 1501 Old 12-05-2011, 03:57 PM
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Heya Dallows, long time no talk to, has it going, see you finally got stereomandan to switch to standard mode. I gave my kid the 42b450(his tv died)I put those standard settings on and they look good. Anywho screen fit is 1:1 mapping, which is the way its supposed to look, 16:9 actually zooms in the picture a little. I use 16:9 for Tv because screen fit turns off the pixel shift. 1:1 for movies if there are no black bars.
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post #1183 of 1501 Old 12-16-2011, 06:43 AM
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Hi all great info and settings
i have one question my reds a too vivid how do i tone them down
im using stereodans settings


Mode: Standard
Cell light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Color: 43
Tint: G44/R56

Advanced settings:
Black tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Gamma: -1
Color space: Auto
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

White balance:
R-offset: 19
G-offset: 25
B-offset: 4
R-gain: 30
G-gain: 25
B-gain: 9

Picture options:
Color tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: off
HDMI black level: normal
Film mode: Auto

Any help would be great thanks
Benitez1
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post #1184 of 1501 Old 12-18-2011, 02:51 PM
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I was wondering if it's normal for you guys to have to black bars on the left and right on this TV. I tried both the 16:9 and screen fit, both have black bars on the left and right. This is on my ps3 playing black ops in split screen mode
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post #1185 of 1501 Old 12-24-2011, 07:26 AM
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Greetings,

For obtaining a pop from your PN**B450, I believe that Sharpness is important. After many hcfr calibrations and reviewing the service manual for this model, here is my recommendation:

The DVE disc is about the best one for this model. Make sure that all of the blu ray's menu adjustment settings, especially sharpness, are turned off. The blu rays display setting should be set for 720p signal. The tv's aspect should be set at screen fit (not 16:9) for 1:1 mapping. You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts. In the advance settings: color space native.

Load the DVE disc and go to the 720p calibration patterns (not the 1080p), and go to the sharpness pattern. Adjust the sharpness from where you usually sit to view the tv, and not close up. Try not to "strain" to see whether artifacts appear on the pattern, but try to use normal viewing. Start the sharpness setting by using your remote for the tv's menu from about 60 and reduce it until the artifacts disappear from the "outer" part of the large circle. For viewing in movie mode, use DVE's 1080p sharpness pattern which may be better in detecting artifacts than the 720p sharpness pattern.

Edit Note: Just when the artifacts appear to disappear, kick the settings up one notch. For example: if all artifacts disappear at setting 41, bump the setting up to 42. This is the recommendation from AVS Forum calibration disc.

Alternative method: Start the sharpness setting at 0 and keep raising it until you see artifacts appear on the outer part of the large ring. Then lower the setting one notch.

I consistently obtain 42 (yours may be different) as a sharpness setting and the picture really looks nice and it does pop. My set top box from the cable company delivers a 1080i signal.

Further Edit: Please note that I calibrate using Standard Mode with Cool tone in the picture options. This allows me to brighten up the picture a little without being limited by the maximum contrast in the movie mode that has problems, at least on my tv, with "blooming reds."

Believe it or not, after calibration, adjusting contrast @ 100ire to 50ftl, the picture looks like a slightly lighter but sharper movie mode.


Good luck,

Vincentfam
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post #1186 of 1501 Old 12-29-2011, 05:00 AM
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Greetings,

Below are my PN50B450 settings regarding Pop sharpness:
100 ire = 50ftl
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below
standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 84
brightness 51
sharpness 42 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -3
color space native
cuts Red 17 Green 25 Blue 43
Gain Red 39 Green 25 Blue 35
color tone cool
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off

100 ire = 37ftl using combination of window patterns and apl
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below

standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 71
brightness 49
sharpness 42 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -1
color space native
cuts Red 21 Green 25 Blue 36
Gain Red 32 Green 25 Blue 29
color tone cool
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off


Jan 6, 2012 The above settings use hdmi cables; I do have settings for a component source, if interested.

As always,

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post #1187 of 1501 Old 01-08-2012, 04:54 PM
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Vincent, I would be really interested in your component settings. I don't have everything running through HDMI yet.

Also the above settings seemed to have gotten rid of some of the artificts I was seeing in my picture with certain scenes.
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post #1188 of 1501 Old 01-08-2012, 07:13 PM
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LDouglas,

Below are my PN50B450 settings for component connection regarding Pop sharpness:
Updated Jan 10, 2012
100 ire = 36.952 ftl (Target gamma @ 2.4)
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below
standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 71
brightness 53
sharpness 17 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 50
tint 48/52
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 23 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 31 Green 25 Blue 32
color tone cool - picture options
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low

All other enhancements off

Picture settings were adjusted to where the rgb levels stabilized (if you are familiar with hcfr calibration) across the greyscale and provided a better and proper brightness level.

I double checked sharpness and found it to be 17 for the component settings.

Picture should "pop."

Good luck,

As always,
Vincentfam
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post #1189 of 1501 Old 01-09-2012, 07:07 AM
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Thanks Vincent, I'll be sure to give these a try later tonight.
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post #1190 of 1501 Old 01-11-2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:


LDouglasLJr

Vincent, I would be really interested in your component settings. I don't have everything running through HDMI yet.

Also the above settings seemed to have gotten rid of some of the artificts I was seeing in my picture with certain scenes.


You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts

I started seeing some artifacts while using screen fit, so I changed to 16:9 to apparently turn on the anti burn in technology of pixel shift/orbiter. Picture is about the same without seeing pixel artifacts.

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post #1191 of 1501 Old 01-15-2012, 05:11 PM
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Updated: Jan 16, 2012

Greetings colleagues and my apologies in posting the above pop sharpness settings. My previous calibrations involved using large apl windows instead of the regular ones to avoid the effect of the automatic brightness limiter (abl) on this tv, but this made the above previous measurements inaccurate.

To avoid the abl effect (which is an automatic dimming if the picture becomes too bright - energy saving feature) I simply used regular windows and calibrated 100 ire @ 27.5 ftl for my component settings.

Below are my component settings:

standard mode
cell light 8 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.29)
contrast 57
brightness 51
sharpness 7 tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 21 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 33 Green 33 Blue 30
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone normal
pic size 16:9
All other enhancements off
Jan 18: Turn on edge enhancement for a potentially better picture quality

Jan 21: Further investigation reveals that edge enhancement may be adding artifacts to the picture. RGBs tweaked as follows
offsets Red 25 Green 25 Blue 35
gains Red 32 Green 33 Blue 32
Sharpness maintained at 7
I thought it was too good to be true


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post #1192 of 1501 Old 01-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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Greetings,
Revised!

Here are my hdmi settings using regular window patterns:

Peak White is @ 28 ftl.

standard mode
cell light 10 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.24)
contrast 58
brightness 51
sharpness 14 tweaked again
(pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 50
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 20 Green 25 Blue 36 (offsets)
Gain Red 28 Green 25 Blue 24
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone normal
pic size 16:9
All other enhancements off
Jan 18: Turn on edge enhancement for a potentially better picture quality

Jan 21: Further investigation reveals that edge enhancement may be adding artifacts to the picture. RGBs tweaked as follows
offsets Red 26 Green 25 Blue 36
gains Red 24 Green 25 Blue 25
Sharpness 14
I thought it was too good to be true


Gamma curve is pretty much smooth between 30 and 80 ire windows

My above component settings look better on my tv. Probably will tweak both settings in a few weeks.


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post #1193 of 1501 Old 01-18-2012, 08:35 PM
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Greetings Once Again:

FYI

A support website described edge enhancement as follows:

Quote:
The edge enhancement feature functions much like the "Sharpness" option. The difference is it attempts to eliminate any artificial edging created by the sharpness function. This feature can be turned on and off to your viewing preference.

It appears that the edge enhancement is not the same as sharpness and actually eliminates artificial edging. I turned the edge enhancement on for my "avoiding automatic brightness limiter" settings and the picture really pops.

Edit: Contrary to the above website information, it appears that this enhancement does add sharpness artifacts to the picture. Nonetheless, the picture does "pop."

Jan 22: A possible Solution for the Edge Enhancement feature is to first use a sharpness pattern to eliminate artifacts at the highest sharpness setting, and then turn on the edge enhancement feature to improve the picture quality.

As always,

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post #1194 of 1501 Old 02-04-2012, 01:07 PM
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Greetings,

Just tweaked my component settings for a better brightness level. Previous settings were just a little too dark. For you DIY calibrators, peak white @ 100 ire is 28.118 ftl. Also, gamma graph attached for your convenience. These settings look good with the edge enhancement on or off. I leave it on per my preference:

Component Settings:
Feb 9, 2012: Use these settings for Over The Air broadcasts.
standard mode
cell light 10 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.21)
contrast 56
brightness 53
sharpness 8 tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 25 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 31 Green 33 Blue 35
color tone normal
pic size 16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
Looks better with edge enhancement on or off
All other enhancements off

hdmi settings:
standard mode
cell light 7 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.19)
contrast 56
brightness 53
sharpness 14 Corrected, blu ray was set on 1080i instead of 720p signal
tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 50
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 22 Green 25 Blue 34 (offsets)
Gain Red 28 Green 26 Blue 29
color tone normal
pic size 16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
Looks better with edge enhancement on or off
All other enhancements off


Friendly note on Sharpness: You may have noticed that my sharpness settings change from time to time. This is due to my "squinting" at the sharpness pattern, which is incorrect, instead of using "normal vision" to adjust sharpness on the sharpness pattern. Everytime I "squint", the settings are off and the picture doesn't look as great as it could be. See my earlier post on "the importance of pop sharpness settings."

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1195 of 1501 Old 02-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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Greetings,

Herein are the settings for the movie mode with warm 2 tone, calibrated at industry standards. For your DIY calibrators, peak white is 25 ftl to avoid the automatic brightness limiter, with gamma level @ 2.24.
movie mode
cell light 5 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.24)
contrast 77
brightness 53
sharpness 46: Corrected, blu ray was set on 1080i instead of 720p signal
(pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern, using the 1080p pattern produced a less sharp picture for the movie mode)
color 51
tint 48/52
Gamma 0
color space native
cuts Red 29 Green 25 Blue 47 (offsets)
Gain Red 38 Green 25 Blue 40
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone warm 2
pic size 16:9
edge enhancement on (my preference)
All other enhancements off

Picture looks decent and slightly darker than the standard mode.

As always,

Vincentfam
LL
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post #1196 of 1501 Old 02-19-2012, 05:09 PM
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Greetings,

Has anyone with this model adjusted the "trim pots" for better black levels and therefore a better picture quality? It requires opening up the rear panel and adjusting voltage settings with a meter, etc. Also, there is a warning of destroying your tv and voiding your warranty.

I have been reviewing zoyd's following post and will probably attempt this in the latter part of this week:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1390635

Feb 20, 2012 Report: I opened up the rear panel and discovered the following adjustment pots: VR-VSCAN, VR-FR, VA, and VS. Measuring voltage for VA and VS found them to be within posted levels on the label inside of panel. VR-VSCAN I believe is the vscan adjustment. Not sure about VR-FR, which may be for "falling ramps". According to other posts, you definitely do not want to touch this pot. I did not find the yrr adjustment that is talked about in zoyd's post. I decided that it is not worth adjusting without more information. I did discover two things: 1st if you are going to try this, buy a digital voltmeter to accurately measure the voltage, and 2nd there is a lot of dust behind the tv.

Until later,

Vincentfam
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post #1197 of 1501 Old 02-21-2012, 07:02 PM
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Greetings Colleagues,

A possible solution for better blacks for this model is the cal-night mode, which appears to have better black levels per posts in this forum. The gamma graph looks very crappy, but the luminance for rgb levels appears to be substantially increased between 50 to 100ire. This may be designed for deeper colors, my guess.

To access the cal-night mode, you need to enter the service menu and upgrade the model to B560, per posts in this forum. As always, enter the service menu at your own risk. Doing so may destroy your tv or void any warranty.

Here are my settings for hdmi:
Cal-Night mode
Cell 8
contrast 64
brightness 59
sharpness 14
color 40
tint 49/51
gamma -3
color space native
white balance
Offsets: red 8, green 31, blue 27
gains: red 27, green 25, blue 25
color tone normal
size 16:9
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off

The picture looks deeper with better black levels.

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1198 of 1501 Old 02-21-2012, 08:44 PM
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hey vincent I believe the reason for the blacks looking deeper is because dynamic contrast is on and it cant be turned off in the cal modes. If you cycle thru dynamic contrast, black tone and color space, nothing will change,you wont see any difference. What I mean is if you goto say dynamic contrast in any cal mode and go from low to high you will not see any change in picture. If you do that in movie mode you will see a change in each step. I put the same settings on movie mode and cal night and then in movie mode turned dynamic contrast and black tone on the highest levels and the pictures were the same. Anyways though I am liking your calibration settings so keep up the good work. I was thinking of opening up the back on mine and seeing if there were any pots to adjust for a better black level like in this years model.
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post #1199 of 1501 Old 02-21-2012, 09:09 PM
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kanpol,

Thanks for your post. For a while there I thought I was talking to myself.

Also, thanks for your observation regarding cal-night settings. I now know that I will be going back to the standard mode with a better gamma graph.

I wouldn't bother with opening the rear panel. I thoroughly searched it and found only the adjustable pots previously described. You may want to consider asking zoyd, or anyone in the LG thread, if he knows anything about adjusting the black levels on this tv, or I would wait for someone more familiar with the pots on this tv before attempting to adjust them. It appears that a person in the LG thread screwed up his LG tv when making some adjustments and had to go through an extensive method to reset it. I am not sure if it is worth it at this time to risk a "shut down" and possible reset.

However, if you do make that "brave" attempt to remove the rear panel and find a useful method, please post in this thread.

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1200 of 1501 Old 02-21-2012, 11:55 PM
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I gonna do the adjustment to my 51d6500 when the wife goes to visit the grandkids, that way if something goes wrong I can close it up and play dumb.
I remember zoyd mentioning that you can do it for the c series, so good idea vincentfam better ask him first bout the b series and if it can be done before i openit up. Thanks for keeping this thread alive
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