Samsung PN**B450 Picture Settings - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1481 Old 04-03-2012, 03:29 AM
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FYI,

It has been recommended in this forum by well respected calibrators that cell light setting should be 10, which I considered during the course of my DIY calibrations. I changed the cell settings for hdmi and component to level or flatten out the gamma curve.

Just thought you'd want to know.

Also, see updated sharpness settings for 1080i signals on page 41.

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1232 of 1481 Old 04-05-2012, 07:39 AM
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Greetings Samsung PN**B450 Colleagues,

I have reviewed the latest (March 23 Updated) settings with the gamma level around 2.4 to 2.45. However, a thread in the AVS Forum recommended a gamma level of 2.5 in light controlled rooms. [See: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?t=1008297]

Does anyone want me to try to increase the gamma levels to 2.5 and post those settings for component and hdmi?

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1233 of 1481 Old 04-05-2012, 04:56 PM
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If you want too vincent that would be great. I love how the set looks now so I can only imagine if that would make it look better.

All the tweaking you do is great and appreciated.
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post #1234 of 1481 Old 04-05-2012, 08:18 PM
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Greetings,

It took awhile to get a consistent 2.5 gamma level and the picture is a little dark, peak white = 20 ftl. Gamma and rgb graphs are attached. Also during calibration, I noticed some image retention that is not noticed during normal tv viewing. I am going to put a warning on all movie settings of potential image retention problems. The picture looks good but probably not that better than 2.4 gamma. The below settings are not recommended by me. However, if you want a ligther picture closer to 2.5 gamma, you may want to consider my March 12, 2012 movie settings for hdmi connections. Make sure you adjust sharpness settings.

If you want to know what a "gamma 2.5" looks like, here you go:

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Movie

Average Gamma 2.50
Static Contrast Ratio 560:1
Peak White 20.8 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 6
contrast 71
brightness 57
sharpness 16
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -2
native color space
cuts Red 24 Green 24 Blue 27
Gain Red 29 Green 21 Blue 40
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

I am going back to my earlier settings.

As always,

Vincentfam

Attachment 242758

Attachment 242759
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post #1235 of 1481 Old 04-07-2012, 08:06 AM
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Greetings Colleagues,

Herein are the collective exhaustive settings for hdmi and component connections for movie and standard modes, using the ganging techniques and pop sharpness calibration, with average gamma levels close to recommended 2.5. These settings assume that your hdtv signal input is 1080i.

DIY tricks of the trade calibrations using eye one lt colorimeter and hcfr software, with DVE and 709 AVS Forum discs. Next project: varying the "black tone" for impact on picture quality - within two weeks.

Update: Turning ON Edge Enhancement may make improvement on picture.


Component Settings:

movie:

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.43
Static Contrast Ratio 1032:1
Peak White 35.4 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 87
brightness 53
sharpness 11
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 18 Blue 36
Gain Red 48 Green 30 Blue 50
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement


standard:

Average Gamma 2.38
Static Contrast Ratio 1431:1
Peak White 43.6 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 2
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 6 Green 14 Blue 33
Gain Red 50 Green 43 Blue 44
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

HDMI Settings:

Movie

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.47
Static Contrast Ratio 926:1
Peak White 33.9 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 86
brightness 53
sharpness 18
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 21 Blue 31
Gain Red 44 Green 32 Blue 48
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Standard

Average Gamma 2.41
Static Contrast Ratio 1118:1
Peak White 44.3 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 74
brightness 53
sharpness 2
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 8 Green 18 Blue 34
Gain Red 47 Green 45 Blue 45
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1236 of 1481 Old 04-08-2012, 10:29 AM
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Greetings,

[Edit: I am turning the black tone setting off due to some black crush issues, that is, losing detail in dark scenes. I may later turn it back on but to another level, like dark or darker, to avoid black crush. Remember, adjustment to the black tone setting may also require adjusting color and tint settings.]

Just when you thought things couldn't improve . . .

While waiting for the inlaws over for dinner this evening, I thought I would look at the impact of changing the black tone on possible picture quality. After turning the black tone to "darkest", here is what I found:

Static Contrast Ratios increased slightly
No impact on gamma levels
No impact on sharpness settings
Slight impact on rgb levels for standard mode/component connection
Impact on color/tint settings

For Component Connections:
Movie Mode: Color 54, Tint 49/51
Standard Mode: Color 54, Tint 52/48

For HDMI Connections:
Movie Mode: Color 52, Tint 50/50
Standard Mode: Color 52, Tint 50/50

Additionally, sometimes I turn on the edge enhancement for a slightly better picture, but it's not necessary.

As always,

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post #1237 of 1481 Old 04-11-2012, 07:13 PM
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Greetings,

New settings for black tone adjustments:

I set the black tone to “dark” and had little or no black crush issues, but had to change color and tint settings. Also, I changed the picture size to screen fit for hdmi and component inputs and had to adjust sharpness. I do not prefer screen fit because it may be shutting off IR protection. Edge enhancement turned off. Picture improved.

Changes to Exhaustive Settings

TV Input

Use exhaustive component settings. This input may not allow screen fit. If that is the case, do not adjust sharpness.

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 2 (Use 1 if pic size is screen fit)
Color 51
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: 16:9

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 12 (Use 9 if pic size is screen fit)
Color 52
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: 16:9

Component Input

Use exhaustive component settings. This input allows screen fit, so adjust sharpness if using screen fit as follows:

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 1, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 9, if using screen fit
Color 52
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

HDMI Input

Use exhaustive hdmi settings. This input allows screen fit, so adjust sharpness if using screen fit as follows:

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 1, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 49/51
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 16, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 50/50
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

I think the pictures have a little more punch.

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #1238 of 1481 Old 04-12-2012, 07:56 AM
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Greetings,

Per either this forum or a samsung website, a benefit of the black tone setting is to add depth to the picture. However, too much darkness may lead to black crush.

The most recent settings regarding the "black tone dilemma," set at the dark setting, actually look pretty good and, I think, add a little more pop and less black crush than the "darkest" setting.

As always,

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post #1239 of 1481 Old 04-12-2012, 05:33 PM
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How's the picture(s)?

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post #1240 of 1481 Old 04-12-2012, 06:16 PM
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I actually just got home not too long ago. Just put the settings in. Picture looks fine the little I got to watch so far. After I get the kids to bed I'm planning on watching a movie so I'll get a better feel for the picture then.

Really appreciate all the tweaking you do to this set.
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post #1241 of 1481 Old 04-13-2012, 02:21 PM
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LDouglasLJr,

I think that I did all the tweaking that I can do with my limited DIY knowledge of calibration. I hope that you enjoy the tv. If I think of any thing else, of course, I will post it.

As always,

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post #1242 of 1481 Old 04-13-2012, 04:19 PM
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I enjoy this set, even though it's only a 720P one. I've never had an issue with that though.

You've sure done a lot of tweaking that's for sure.
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post #1243 of 1481 Old 04-15-2012, 06:04 PM
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Greetings,

Just when you thought there would be no more tweaks for this tv, yet here is another one. The major change with this calibration is that black tone was changed to "darkest" to obtain the deepest blacks, and contrast increase to give proper brightness level per DVE pluge pattern (calibration jargon).

Better contrast ratio. I just had to do it, kinda burnt out doing my taxes.

Also attached are rgb and gamma graphs:

Standard hdmi

Average Gamma 2.34
Static Contrast Ratio 1332:1
Peak white: 50.5 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 80
brightness 53
sharpness 0
color 52
tint 49/51
BLACK TONE: DARKEST
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 6 Green 13 Blue 26
Gain Red 49 Green 43 Blue 43
screen fit
hdmi black level: low
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement


Other modes/inputs will be updated next weekend.

As always,

Vincentfam

Attachment 243685

Attachment 243686
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post #1244 of 1481 Old 04-15-2012, 06:11 PM
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lol Nice vincent, I knew you couldn't stop

I'll be trying these out tonight while watching some movies. Will let you know in the AM how it looks.
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post #1245 of 1481 Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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I got to setup my tv last night with these newest settings and watching Doctor Who looked very good last night. Now granted I did have all the lights off but I won't complain about that.
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post #1246 of 1481 Old 04-16-2012, 08:10 PM
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Greetings,

Here are the updated Standard Component Settings where Black Tone is set to darkest. Please note that Sharpness is set to 0 for both hdmi and component settings for standard mode.

Good Black levels

Average Gamma 2.38
Static Contrast Ratio 1422:1
Peak White 47.8 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 79
brightness 53
sharpness 0
color 51
tint 50/50
Black Tone Darkness
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 11 Green 17 Blue 28
Gain Red 50 Green 41 Blue 44
screen fit
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement


Movie mode settings will be a little more complicated and done over the weekend.

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post #1247 of 1481 Old 04-17-2012, 05:54 AM
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Will be trying these out tonight. So far out of all the tweaks you've done, which one has been your favorite? Is it these most current ones?
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post #1248 of 1481 Old 04-17-2012, 08:37 AM
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Actually, the ones I like best are the component settings with black tone set at darkest level. This allows the deepest blacks with increased static contrast ratio (higher peak white). I use the hdmi input for blu ray.

The movie mode settings with black tone @ darkest will be a little more difficult because I may have to increase the contrast level to have proper brightness level per DVE's pluge pattern. Increasing contrast too much may introduce other colors like a tinted red, etc. Also, decreasing brightness too much may cause a "popping." That's when it appears that the black areas in the picture are blinking.
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post #1249 of 1481 Old 04-17-2012, 11:11 AM
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I'm curious to try these component settings out tonight. I know the HDMI settings looked great while I've been watching Doctor Who and playing games on my PS3.

I've grown more partial to the Standard over Movie mode anymore but mainly due to increased IR from that setting.
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post #1250 of 1481 Old 04-17-2012, 06:37 PM
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Greetings;

Here are settings for component input movie mode with Black Tone set at Darkest setting. Easier than I thought. Major change from earlier settings is picture setting of screen fit, which changed the sharpness setting. Let me know if you want me to post hdmi movie mode setting at darkest black tone.

Good Black levels

Edit: Noticed some image retention issues. My preference is Standard Mode.

Average Gamma 2.44
Static Contrast Ratio 1021:1
Peak White 34.8 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 86
brightness 53
sharpness 7
color 52
tint 52/48
blacktone darkest
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 26 Blue 19
Gain Red 45 Green 35 Blue 50
screen fit
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Vincentfam
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post #1251 of 1481 Old 04-17-2012, 11:20 PM
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I am nothing more than an amateur HT hobbiest. but I'll share my settings. They're are used in a fairly bright room with lots of late night use as well. I haven't touched the white level but am open to suggestions. Colors are inky and the picture is bright. They work for television, video games, and Bluray viewing. I know some of the settings go against what's recommended but the pq looks good to me.

HDMI
Standard color mode
Color Tone: normal
Cell Light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 49
Sharpness: 48
Color 55
Tint 46/54
Black tone: Darker
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma +2
Color Space: Native
White Balance: all @ 25 but open to suggestions
Flesh Tone: -2
Edge Enhancement: On
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post #1252 of 1481 Old 04-18-2012, 07:44 AM
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I don't think you need to post them vincent. I'm more then happy with the picture using standard. Movie mode just gives me too much IR. It fades fast enough but standard looks great to me with these settings.

I'm using them for my component settings and tv looks great. And I'm using the HDMI for games and Blu rays and it looks equally as nice.

stir fry a lot: you're running your contrast at 100! Wow, do you notice a lot of IR with those settings?
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post #1253 of 1481 Old 04-18-2012, 08:27 AM
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No, absolutely none at all. I'm sure it's there if I look for it but it probably never is present for more than two minutes at most. 75% of its use is watching blurays which many times have letter boxing and I run my tv from morning to night most days of the week. No issues with noticing IR whatsoever. Stop looking for it it and it will open a much larger spectrum of color options for you. I have no idea if it will shorten the life of the set but it was a cheap buy when I picked it up three years ago and it's still going strong. Prices are doing nothing but going down on new sets so once this one goes I'll just have a reason to get a nicer one.
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post #1254 of 1481 Old 04-18-2012, 09:27 AM
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I notice IR very easily, and that's not even looking for it. I don't know what running 100% contrast does for the set.

Prices are getting cheaper for the time being that's for sure. I'm not sure that's going to be the continuing trend. Prices can only be cut so much before the profit margin is zero on the sets being purchased.
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post #1255 of 1481 Old 04-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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Stir Fry A Lot,

HDTV viewing is about personal preference. If you like the settings, then that's what it is all about. If you are looking for suggestions for understanding the white balance settings, or how to adjust them, you may want to visit this web site for an explanation of the greyscale and white balance adjustments:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Keep in mind that you do not need to go into the service menu for this tv. The necessary adjustments are in the user menu. Going into the service menu may destroy your tv.

LDouglasLJr,

The movie modes appear to be darker and have a little IR issue. The black tone settings do not appear to be helpful to this mode. I am changing my movie mode settings back to where the black tone is set to none. My normal viewing is also the standard mode, especially with the black tone set at darkest level.

As always,

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post #1256 of 1481 Old 04-19-2012, 06:16 PM
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Just for kicks, I ran a check of Stir Fry's settings and found that the white balance settings were consistently okay for the standard mode, normal tone settings, with sharpness a little high and brightness just slightly off.

Apparently, Stir Fry, it appears that you have a calibration disc because your brightness level was just about perfect. Raising contrast to 100 appears to be introducing some red tint into the picture. Nonetheless the picture appears to be a very bright but good picture, if that is your preference.

For your convenience, I have attached the graphs for the measurements I took off of your settings below:

HDMI

Average Gamma: 1.34
static contrast ratio: 1282:1
Peak White: 63.2 ftL

Standard color mode
Color Tone: normal
Cell Light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 49 [may want to adjust to 48]
Sharpness: 48
Color 55
Tint 46/54
Black tone: Darker
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma +2
Color Space: Native
White Balance: all @ 25 but open to suggestions
Flesh Tone: -2
Edge Enhancement: On

If you look at the CIE chart, your red, green, and blue look pretty consistent for standard mode, normal tone setting. I wouldn't change your white balance settings. My only suggestion would be to use the ganging method and equally decrease the red, blue and green gains to increase the gamma level from 50% to 100% gray, if anything, to try to level out the gamma level. You may need the hcfr software (free) and a colorimeter.

Hope this helps.

Vincentfam

Attachment 243983

Attachment 243984

Attachment 243985

Attachment 243986

Attachment 243987
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post #1257 of 1481 Old 04-24-2012, 08:34 PM
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LDouglasLJr,

If you can do a favor, change the color space from native to auto to see if that improves the picture quality any. I am using the settings where black tone is set to darkest and by changing the color space to auto makes the picture look better, imho.

I am using a signal from the set top box of 1080i.

Tomorrow, I am going to do a calibration check to see if changing the color space from native to auto affects the greyscale, sharpness, etc.

Thanks,

Vincentfam
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post #1258 of 1481 Old 04-25-2012, 05:58 AM
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Be happy to vincent. I'll make the change when I get home and will let you know.
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post #1259 of 1481 Old 04-25-2012, 08:24 AM
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Thanks,

I rechecked the calibration settings and found out that the change in color space from native to auto had no apparent effect on gamma curve, rgb levels, sharpness, etc.

This is also what I found out about the color space setting on this samsung tv. Native setting may be overly saturating the colors more than the auto setting. Without the saturation, auto may allow a better picture than native. I am changing all of my personal settings to auto.

Thanks again for the assistance.

Vincentfam
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post #1260 of 1481 Old 04-25-2012, 06:47 PM
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Here are my updated settings for standard mode, with rgb and gamma graphs attached. These settings are slightly different than earlier settings, which may indicate that I may have to buy a new colorimeter soon.

Changing the color space to auto may avoid overly saturated colors that may be causing IR issues.

Good Black levels

Average Gamma 2.3
Static Contrast Ratio 1520:1
Peak White 46.7 ftl
0% IRE: 0.031 ftL

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 79
brightness 53
sharpness 1
color 50
tint 52/48
Black Tone Darkest
Gamma -3
auto color space
cuts Red 17 Green 25 Blue 36
Gain Red 46 Green 43 Blue 44
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement


Vincentfam


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