Samsung PN5xB650 Owner Thread - Page 166 - AVS Forum
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post #4951 of 5062 Old 09-19-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

I'm pretty sure every B650 has this problem, skimming through the jpegs in this thread, I've found two pictures of people showing this off (that I have as well obviously).



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=177252&d=1275699877


I am curious to know if the majority, minority or ANY other plasma model has these kind of imperfections on the screen. Playing a lot of NHL makes this a little distracting. My set is pretty close to those pics but has an even darker/pinkish hue line near the top.

My B650 has this as well. It's very faint. I'm not concerned about it.
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post #4952 of 5062 Old 09-19-2010, 03:41 PM
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Ya in most situations its a none issue, but I browse the web on my television frequently, and play NHL on the PS3 so I can't help but notice it unfortunately.
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post #4953 of 5062 Old 09-19-2010, 07:09 PM
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so everyone watches sports on the movie mode with those settings?
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post #4954 of 5062 Old 09-20-2010, 05:11 AM
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Right, bit if an update. The same company who diagnosed my previous set came out today. Thr tech looked at the 3 points i mentioned in the previous page, told him i did some research before i phoned samsung and that all other sets id looked at didn have these problems. He agreed, and has immediately requested a replacement pdp and filter, didnt even question any of the points. Said that when he comes to repair we'll checknout the tv together. Wants to make sure im 100% happy. Great service from the tech.
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post #4955 of 5062 Old 09-24-2010, 08:59 AM
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Well, they came out again, turns out it was just some sort of voltage adjustment screw or whatnot. A couple tweaks and all was good. They said the panel should have been preset and tested from the factory, rare that this happens. They said to let them know if it shifts again anytime soon.

Also, I glanced at the PDP hours when they did the service menu, and I'm up to 2,215 hrs since January.
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post #4956 of 5062 Old 09-29-2010, 11:23 PM
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Turned on my tv today and it decided that it would run the Store Demo and completely ignore all inputs, including all buttons on the television, except the volume buttons on the remote work. Aside from that, I can't change anything right now. It is currently unplugged and if I plug it back in, it turns itself on and repeats what I just mentioned. A warranty repair may be in my future. I'm not a knowledge person about stuff like this, but I'm guessing that it is some sort of motherboard that is frying/fried. The other thing I noticed is that it now plays the melody when you fire it up, even though I had turned it off previously.
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post #4957 of 5062 Old 09-30-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Day View Post


Also, I glanced at the PDP hours when they did the service menu, and I'm up to 2,215 hrs since January.


I'm right around 2250 since late March!
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post #4958 of 5062 Old 09-30-2010, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

Turned on my tv today and it decided that it would run the Store Demo and completely ignore all inputs, including all buttons on the television, except the volume buttons on the remote work. Aside from that, I can't change anything right now. It is currently unplugged and if I plug it back in, it turns itself on and repeats what I just mentioned. A warranty repair may be in my future. I'm not a knowledge person about stuff like this, but I'm guessing that it is some sort of motherboard that is frying/fried. The other thing I noticed is that it now plays the melody when you fire it up, even though I had turned it off previously.

XFistsClenchedX try these rough instructions to pull the TV out of demo mode:

1. Set the source to TV. (Necessary menu choices don't show up otherwise)

2. Hit menu, go to setup, and select Plug and Play.

3. Go through the Plug and Play prompts, selecting Home mode when prompted. Skipping some prompts (ex: time) is ok, but don't quit this process.

My set would randomly turn on into demo mode occasionally. It slowly got worse, and the set ended up refusing to power on in an endless fail to power on from standby, power off, and repeat loop. This was a bad power control board inside the set.

Samsung gets lots of faulty ones: my original was bad, the replacement board sent to the tech was bad (found during service), and the third one seems to be working a little. The tech managed to bust my panel in the repairs (lots of new noise, bad color, banding, and burn-in immediately after he installed parts; pristine picture quality before), and they wanted to try replacing the panel. I screamed at Samsung enough on the phone to avoid the fourth service repair.

They are replacing the set with a PN50C6500, but it will be 1 month without a properly working TV after the whole ordeal. I hope you have a better experience than me-- I won't buy a Samsung consumer product again.
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post #4959 of 5062 Old 09-30-2010, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiver0013 View Post

XFistsClenchedX try these rough instructions to pull the TV out of demo mode:

1. Set the source to TV. (Necessary menu choices don't show up otherwise)

2. Hit menu, go to setup, and select Plug and Play.

3. Go through the Plug and Play prompts, selecting Home mode when prompted. Skipping some prompts (ex: time) is ok, but don't quit this process.

My set would randomly turn on into demo mode occasionally. It slowly got worse, and the set ended up refusing to power on in an endless fail to power on from standby, power off, and repeat loop. This was a bad power control board inside the set.

Samsung gets lots of faulty ones: my original was bad, the replacement board sent to the tech was bad (found during service), and the third one seems to be working a little. The tech managed to bust my panel in the repairs (lots of new noise, bad color, banding, and burn-in immediately after he installed parts; pristine picture quality before), and they wanted to try replacing the panel. I screamed at Samsung enough on the phone to avoid the fourth service repair.

They are replacing the set with a PN50C6500, but it will be 1 month without a properly working TV after the whole ordeal. I hope you have a better experience than me-- I won't buy a Samsung consumer product again.

Assuming my tv decides to let me get into the menus, I will try it. I wish I could just switch to the LN46C67 LCD TV.
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post #4960 of 5062 Old 10-01-2010, 08:33 PM
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Plug and Play is grayed out. I can't access it.
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post #4961 of 5062 Old 10-20-2010, 11:30 AM
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The one thing that bothers me the most with my 58B650 is when the camera pans across a field of mostly the same color but that has texture. I watch a lot of sports and this is most noticeable when the camera pans across the grass, such as in the baseball playoffs, but also happens in any scene when the background is mostly one color. In the grass areas you can see digital noise that sort of arranges itself into vertical bands. Its hard to describe but the grass doesn't have a consistent texture as the camera moves but appears like it has vertical bands that are slightly different in tecture and maybe even color and stay generally in the same position on the screen until the camera stops and then it looks fine again. It is a subtle effect and something a normal person like my wife probably would not notice, but it bugs me every time there is a pan across a consistent field of color.

Does everyone see this behavior or is there a problem with my TV? Is this a Samsung issue or a model issue or is it common to all plasma TVs? I have a 46" LCD and definitely don't notice it much if at all.

I have tried to eliminate possible causes. I see it whether I use the Fios box or OTA tuner and whether I go direct to the TV or go through my receiver which has the HQV Reon-VX processor. I have not really tried to see it on a blu-ray disc but I will try that. Also all of my connections are HDMI and I have used different cables with no difference.
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post #4962 of 5062 Old 10-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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I have never seen it with Blu-Ray which means it is strictly source related. Probably compression issues which all providers have, even FIOS with it's bandwidth. I always look for a channel or source which is top notch and then try to see any particular issue. If it doesn't show with that then you know there is nothing inherently wrong with the processing. I too have the Reon VX available if I want it in the Onkyo PR SC885 processor but prefer to pipe most thing directly to the set. This maintains the cable clutter but at least allows me to quickly rule in or out problem areas. I'm still using Comcast while waiting an eternity for FIOS and actually prefer using Component with their HD DVRs, even though there is also an HDMI connection on a second input. I think the HDMI is natively sharper and brighter and it certainly calibrates that way. The added sharpness may be a factor in the color field noise or artifacts you are seeing with motion as I'm not aware of seeing the issue with Component.
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post #4963 of 5062 Old 10-20-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

The one thing that bothers me the most with my 58B650 is when the camera pans across a field of mostly the same color but that has texture. I watch a lot of sports and this is most noticeable when the camera pans across the grass, such as in the baseball playoffs, but also happens in any scene when the background is mostly one color. In the grass areas you can see digital noise that sort of arranges itself into vertical bands. Its hard to describe but the grass doesn't have a consistent texture as the camera moves but appears like it has vertical bands that are slightly different in tecture and maybe even color and stay generally in the same position on the screen until the camera stops and then it looks fine again. It is a subtle effect and something a normal person like my wife probably would not notice, but it bugs me every time there is a pan across a consistent field of color.

Does everyone see this behavior or is there a problem with my TV? Is this a Samsung issue or a model issue or is it common to all plasma TVs? I have a 46" LCD and definitely don't notice it much if at all.

I have tried to eliminate possible causes. I see it whether I use the Fios box or OTA tuner and whether I go direct to the TV or go through my receiver which has the HQV Reon-VX processor. I have not really tried to see it on a blu-ray disc but I will try that. Also all of my connections are HDMI and I have used different cables with no difference.

What you describe sounds like a deinterlacing problem. Using the auto1 film mode should eliminate/minimize the problem. I believe the default film mode is auto2 for interlaced content. Auto1 is the correct setting.
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post #4964 of 5062 Old 10-21-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfbrown94 View Post

What you describe sounds like a deinterlacing problem. Using the auto1 film mode should eliminate/minimize the problem. I believe the default film mode is auto2 for interlaced content. Auto1 is the correct setting.

Thanks for offering up that suggestion. I chalked it up to the source as well, because I have never seen it happen on a blu-ray.
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post #4965 of 5062 Old 10-31-2010, 04:56 PM
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I was so happy with my 58b650 until a couple of days ago.I noticed some red fuzzy dots(pixels?) on some areas mostly on the lighter areas of the image.I have called Samsung as I am still under warranty.Now the red pixels are all over the entire screen along with blues,greens,purples,blacks etc.The worst part is now there is a few black blotches on the center edge and upper corners of the screen that looks like someone has "scratched" the image right off the screen and it the picture is getting worse by the day.I have never had a problem with this set and have loved the picture.Nothing has happened to it like abuse or dropping.Does anybody know why this happened?Can it be fixed or will Samsung have to replace it?How is Samsung with their warranty's. Thanks
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post #4966 of 5062 Old 11-06-2010, 01:36 AM
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Hey ClarkeBar,

You said several pages ago that you'd "...post HDMI tomorrow along with various settings for BluRay and DVD", but you never did. If you could do that now, yours would be the greatest contribution to my collection of settings. Also, if you use an Xbox 360 or a PS3, settings for those would be nice too (especially if you're abreast of the whole HDMI Black Level issue). Speaking of which (and I apologize for being slightly off topic): does anyone know if the latest Xbox update fixed the issue with the Xbox improperly remapping to the 0-255 color range?

Also, ClarkeBar, I think I saw you, or possibly someone else, posting settings following the use of DVE. Included in those settings were custom color values. I don't know if it's just my crippling stupidity, but I also own the DVE blu-ray and I couldn't figure out how to properly set the individual colors using the patterns and filters. How would you set blue and green values for the color red, for example?

Apologies for the volume and complexity of the above questions, but I've owned this damn TV for many months and have poured WEEKS worth of hours into calibrating it myself, all in an attempt to avoid spending hundreds on a professional calibration. So a concise answer with a minimum of exceptionally technical jargon would be appreciated immeasurably.

Oh, and one last thing: how would you edit white balance using DVE?
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post #4967 of 5062 Old 11-08-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast View Post

Oh, and one last thing: how would you edit white balance using DVE?

Adjusting the white balance should really only be done with a color meter and the appropriate software. Unlike other settings which you can do with DVE pretty easily via color filters or just by eye, getting the white balance correct by eye would be very difficult to do, as unless you're calibrated a lot of displays in the past you probably won't know exactly what the pattern should look like. That said, with the correct hardware and software, you can get a very nice grayscale out of this set.

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post #4968 of 5062 Old 11-08-2010, 08:55 PM
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Damnit! I was afraid you'd say that. The cheapest color meter I've seen (that hasn't been hailed as utterly worthless crap) is $300. For $75 less, I can get a professional calibration. I don't want to spend more than $100 to finally get this TV crnaking out the picture quality it should be, so if there's some cheap but effective color meter you know of, I'd be more than happy to know about it. Also, what's this software I keep hearing about? Is it something that measures luminance and whatnot? If so, I'm guessing that's pretty expensive. Anyway, if there's a $100 solution (or cheaper), I'd love to hear it.
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post #4969 of 5062 Old 11-09-2010, 08:45 AM
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I have two problems with my 650, one of long standing and one recent. I am hoping for some good advice on how to deal with them.

The old one is that there seems to be a threshold of non-black information on the screen below which the screen goes blank. And blank (all pixels totally off) is blacker than any real frame. This happens, for example, often during the end titles of movies between the frames that remind of who the director is etc and sometimes during night shots in a movie (blu-ray or TV).

The new one is that I get flaming green pixels randomly in gray areas on the extreme right of the screen. If I turn on scrolling, as the right edge goes from black to gray, these sparkly green pixels appear like sideways flames and follow the gray out several inches until the area gets to some level of whiteness. This seems to happen on TV viewing but doesn't seem to happen on blu-ray, but I'm not certain. The problem seems to be getting worse, that is, happens more often. Scrolling doesn't help, I don't think, although I haven't tried overnight or even an hour yet.

The set is about 1.3 years old. TV comes through a rented Moxi, but the scrolling behavior is strictly within the TV.
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post #4970 of 5062 Old 11-09-2010, 09:12 AM
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Hello Iconoclast,

Sorry for the delay. I lucked into a package deal from SpectraCal early this year and got the EyeOne D2 meter and CalMAN 3.7 for $199. Amazon usually has the package for even less but they were out so I went to the source and grabbed the deal. Shortly after that I downloaded the free HCFR software and now use both packages for different things and to verify one given settings against the other. I believe Spectracal is offering the same package now for an extra $50.

As to settings, I still prefer viewing Component for Comcast Cable although I have direct HDMI connection as well. Remember that each set is different and results will certainly vary. Because of that, I did not come back and post my calibration results as they would have little relevance to another person's set. One look at the chart in this thread showing calibrated results with Custom color makes this obvious. As smackrabbit already posted, adjusting grayscale and color must be done with a meter on your set. It can be a tedious process. I for one think the lessons learned by doing your own calibrating are invaluable. Just one of the things I learned was the effect high Contrast had on Gamma on my set, which I might never have known by simply plugging in other people's results. So many people post 90-100 for Contrast, which might be fine for TV content where demands are less critical. But the effect on Gamma on my set was ridiculous and dropped like a stone after 30-40 IRE. Only lowering Contrast in steps and always re-checking Brightness, gave me a proper Gamma avg. of 2.2 and near flat response ... except for the typical Sammy Blue shift at 0-10 IRE. Of course, the result is a dimmer picture which many do not like.

Since you are obviously willing to take on the challenge, I suggest you either track down a separate meter and download HCFR or grab the package above. If not, then at least get your set calibrated and enjoy the results.
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post #4971 of 5062 Old 11-09-2010, 09:36 PM
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Thanks for an answer that was up to your overwhelmingly high standard. 200 is about twice as much as I wanted to pay, but it certainly makes more sense to dish out 200 than waste the thousand I spent on the TV by getting sub-par pq. Are color meters and that software you mentioned simple to operate or do they require a degree in optics?
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post #4972 of 5062 Old 11-10-2010, 08:14 AM
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No, the meters and software are actually fairly easy to use but I would advise familiarizing yourself with the software help features. The meter just sticks on the set with the suction cups. Give your set a good 30 minute warm-up with the meter in place, on a 0 IRE screen before measuring for MLL, if interested. Otherwise you are good to go. If you run into any problems just give a shout here or by PM. There are plenty of us around to answer the call.

You will be suprised at how much adjustment is needed to get a proper calibration, even with a great set like the B650. Only by calibrating can you see the difference between what looks like a good picture and what is an accurate picture. A properly calibrated picture is likely not for everyone. And also not likely to be as easily appreciated with sources other than DVD/BluRay.
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post #4973 of 5062 Old 11-10-2010, 09:05 PM
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Every time I'm warned that I might not like what a properly calibrated display looks like, I feel a slight twinge of alarm. However, this is my first HD TV so my standard of reference is a 20 year old, small, non-widescreen Sony tv. I'm also very sensitive to details and all I use the TV for is BluRays and games. So when I see that during a certain scene in the Matrix, despite a clearly intentional universal green hue, the shadowed part of Morpheus' head is noticeably green, I know there's something wrong. And when Isaac Clarke's health meter is a very pale teal when it should be a fairly bright cyan, I also know that something's wrong. And just knowing this diminishes the experience because I'm cursed with an overwhelming desire for perfection, as, I imagine, are all the people that contributed to 166 pages of this thread with questions like mine. Point is, I'm not used to an overly bright or saturated image, so a proper calibration will likely be pleasing for me. If I was, I'd just stay in the Native Color Space and call it a day.
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post #4974 of 5062 Old 11-11-2010, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwinner View Post

I have two problems with my 650, one of long standing and one recent. I am hoping for some good advice on how to deal with them.

...
The new one is that I get flaming green pixels randomly in gray areas on the extreme right of the screen. If I turn on scrolling, as the right edge goes from black to gray, these sparkly green pixels appear like sideways flames and follow the gray out several inches until the area gets to some level of whiteness. This seems to happen on TV viewing but doesn't seem to happen on blu-ray, but I'm not certain. The problem seems to be getting worse, that is, happens more often. Scrolling doesn't help, I don't think, although I haven't tried overnight or even an hour yet.

The set is about 1.3 years old. TV comes through a rented Moxi, but the scrolling behavior is strictly within the TV.

I found that someone in Italy reports this same problem and a techie replied that the TV required a "V Setup adjustment". Anyone have any idea whether that requires opening the set and adjusting a board or if it can be done from a service menu?
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post #4975 of 5062 Old 11-11-2010, 05:54 PM
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ClarkeBar, it appears that the CalMAN 3.7 package no longer exists what with the release of version 4.0. I found an Eye-One Display 2 for 170 on eBay so I think I'll use that and HCFR. From your experience, were HCFR's results comparable or inferior to CalMAN's? Also, I hate to give away my nub-cake depth of knowledge, but what is IRE and MLL. Intuition tells me that 0 IRE is a black screen and MLL is minimum or maximum light something.
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post #4976 of 5062 Old 11-11-2010, 09:15 PM
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Yes, that's right. The IRE scale measures light value from black to white. The measured 0 IRE value, whether expressed in Foot-Lamberts (fL) or candelas (cd/m2) is the lowest any particular screen can show Black with signal. This is the Minimum Luminance Level (MLL).

HCFR is extremely popular and will likely be all you ever need. The software is very complete and easy to use. As to meters, for an amateur calibrator like myself, I have found the i1 D2 to be very reliable.
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post #4977 of 5062 Old 11-12-2010, 11:09 PM
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On your recommendation, I bought the Eye One Display 2 and downloaded HCFR. Tried fooling around with it on my own and oh sweet christmas is it overwhelming. I got a little worried when I couldn't find any documentation that wasn't in French, but then I came across this awesome guide in English so now I can't wait to get my colorimeter and start enjoying my damn tv!

If anyone is interested, here's the link to the guide, which incidentally uses the Eye One Display 2 as its colorimeter of choice:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
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post #4978 of 5062 Old 11-12-2010, 11:11 PM
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On your recommendation, I bought the Eye One Display 2. I also downloaded HCFR and only then made the connection between FR and French. Naturally, that freaked me out a bit when I tried to find some documentation or tutorials that weren't in French, but a bit of browsing lead me to this awesome and detailed guide that, incidentally, uses the Eye One Display 2 as its colorimeter (also covers the Spyder 2...or was it the 3?). For the thousandth time: thanks! Can't wait to get the colorimeter and start enjoying the tv I should've been enjoying 9 months ago.

In case anyone's interested or considering following this calibration route, here's the link to the guide:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
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post #4979 of 5062 Old 11-15-2010, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rwinner View Post

I have two problems with my 650, one of long standing and one recent. I am hoping for some good advice on how to deal with them.

The old one is that there seems to be a threshold of non-black information on the screen below which the screen goes blank. And blank (all pixels totally off) is blacker than any real frame. This happens, for example, often during the end titles of movies between the frames that remind of who the director is etc and sometimes during night shots in a movie (blu-ray or TV).

I have the same situation with my TV as your "old" problem. I was under the impression that this was not really a problem and just how the TV works, but I would love to hear from others if they have the same behavior.

As you say, there is black and then there is a real super black like the pixels turns off completely. The normal black to me is not as dark as I thought this TV should be and this is the black you see on the side bars with non-16x9 material and in most scenes. Then sometimes the TV senses that the whole screen is "black" and below some threshold and it basically shuts off the pixels and becomes really true black. You see this often before or after the main content of a movie starts. It is frustrating because why isn't the normal black the same pitch black?
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post #4980 of 5062 Old 11-15-2010, 02:55 PM
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To me these episodes are like a very brief loss of signal. We know with no signal the screen is very black. I notice this when calibrating where it is not difficult to find and reproduce this 'threshold'. In fact, when the TV turns on you can see the same thing in the various stages before picture. The truly black/black must simply represent a micro period of no signal. The meter will verify with a 0 value reading.
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