$2,500 more for 10 more KURO inches? WHY? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe someone who's "in the industry" can answer.

I own a Pioneer PRO-111FD and I'm now interested in buying the 60 inch 151 but while some of the best deals out there are offering the 50 inch for $2,500-$3,000, the 60 inch remains at $4,800-$5,500 IF you're lucky.

I understand that those 10 extra diagonal inches get you 44% more viewing area but come on. DOUBLE the price for less than 50% more? Something is not adding up here. It can't cost THAT much more to manufacture can it?

Is there any reasonable logic for the HUGE price jump? Please help!
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post #2 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 12:47 AM
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Just a shot in the dark but I would bet it's simple supply and demand. There were fewer of the larger sets made. The reseller's KNOW that and have the luxury of NOT bending to market pressures (for those particular sets).

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post #3 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post

Just a shot in the dark but I would bet it's simple supply and demand.

That and the fact that screen size has always been one of the most obvious and valued distinguishing features of any display.

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post #4 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 04:34 AM
 
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The price is based upon what the market will bear.

I paid $7500 for a PRO-150FD & you're saying the street price for a PRO-151FD is under $5000.

Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

If you want a BIG TV for a low price, check out LG's 60PC1D.
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post #5 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfunny1980 View Post

Maybe someone who's "in the industry" can answer.

I own a Pioneer PRO-111FD and I'm now interested in buying the 60 inch 151 but while some of the best deals out there are offering the 50 inch for $2,500-$3,000, the 60 inch remains at $4,800-$5,500 IF you're lucky.

I understand that those 10 extra diagonal inches get you 44% more viewing area but come on. DOUBLE the price for less than 50% more? Something is not adding up here. It can't cost THAT much more to manufacture can it?

Is there any reasonable logic for the HUGE price jump? Please help!

i'd be willing to bet that the larger glass is significantly more expensive to manufacture than the smaller glass... not to mention the other associated costs of a larger unit, packaging, etc.

the reasons that others listed probably also play into it...

fwiw, double the price for 50% more is a BARGAIN in the a/v world...

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post #6 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 04:57 AM
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This question seems like one for the ladies. Heck, this white guy doesn't have any Kuro inches.

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post #7 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 05:01 AM
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well the 600m is always an option. just a few more bones than the 111.
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post #8 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

well the 600m is always an option. just a few more bones than the 111.

+1 For less than $3K, you can get the Kuro 600M. It almost make the discounted 111 seems expansive.

For detail, check out these two thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1126267
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102574
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post #9 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tyro View Post

This question seems like one for the ladies. Heck, this white guy doesn't have any Kuro inches.

^^^Now that's funny!

Thanks for the insight guys. It does seem like simple supply and demand with regards to what the market will bear. Also, good point about costing more to package and transport a larger panel.

Still, to put it another way, I can get TWO 50 inch 111's for $5,000 and maybe pay the same for the 60 inch 151 if I'm lucky. In other words $5,000 for 100 inches or 60 inches...
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post #10 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 11:23 AM
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you also have to take into account how many panels of glass can be cut from one mold for a 60" compared to a 50". and you know how the story goes, you pay for the excess that cant be used.
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post #11 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfunny1980 View Post

Maybe someone who's "in the industry" can answer.

I own a Pioneer PRO-111FD and I'm now interested in buying the 60 inch 151 but while some of the best deals out there are offering the 50 inch for $2,500-$3,000, the 60 inch remains at $4,800-$5,500 IF you're lucky.

I understand that those 10 extra diagonal inches get you 44% more viewing area but come on. DOUBLE the price for less than 50% more? Something is not adding up here. It can't cost THAT much more to manufacture can it?

Is there any reasonable logic for the HUGE price jump? Please help!

Not quite. Taking the averages of the prices you mentioned, it works out to 44% more screen size for 87% more $. So, the extra 44% costs twice as much per sq. in., than the rest of the TV costs per sq. in. However, as an others have mentioned, indeed, larger glass is more expensive per sq. in., and then there is the economy of scale, that is to say, less 60" plasmas are produced.
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post #12 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 12:33 PM
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This was my big issue when I bought my 111FD the other day. I would love the 60" but the 50" is now priced roughly in line with many high-end plasmas and LCD's and even cheaper than the 52" LEDs. So comparatively I'm getting a great deal. The 60" still was a significant premium over other 60" models and it just prevented me from taking the plunge. There were other factors on why I bought the 50" but this was the defining factor. It is a shame but I'm really looking forward to my new 50" (everybody else is scratching their heads as to why I bought a 50" plasma when I already have one).
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post #13 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Priestley View Post

This was my big issue when I bought my 111FD the other day. I would love the 60" but the 50" is now priced roughly in line with many high-end plasmas and LCD's and even cheaper than the 52" LEDs. So comparatively I'm getting a great deal. The 60" still was a significant premium over other 60" models and it just prevented me from taking the plunge. There were other factors on why I bought the 50" but this was the defining factor. It is a shame but I'm really looking forward to my new 50" (everybody else is scratching their heads as to why I bought a 50" plasma when I already have one).

Congrats on your new 111FD.

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post #14 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:10 PM
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Thanks although I'm looking more forward to breaking this in and getting it calibrated. I see that you also have one but have the speakers on despite having surround sound. Why is this?
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post #15 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Priestley View Post

Thanks although I'm looking more forward to breaking this in and getting it calibrated. I see that you also have one but have the speakers on despite having surround sound. Why is this?

Many sometimes like to just listen to news etc with the speakers that are on the set.

Also to the OP its all about demand and if people can justify the bigger size for the $$ and of they need a bigger set they do
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post #16 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Priestley View Post

Thanks although I'm looking more forward to breaking this in and getting it calibrated. I see that you also have one but have the speakers on despite having surround sound. Why is this?


Cause the family doesn't use the surround unless they are going to watch a BD or DVD. Also, like Roman said, I don't use the surround for news or certain shows.

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post #17 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:31 PM
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i use my surround for everything. with my onkyo reciever, i can change dsp's at the push of a button so i dont need those bulky looking speakers. i never liked the speakers on the side of the panel. makes it look too wide.
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post #18 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

i use my surround for everything. with my onkyo reciever, i can change dsp's at the push of a button so i dont need those bulky looking speakers. i never liked the speakers on the side of the panel. makes it look too wide.

Wide and bigger The point is it depends on the individual
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post #19 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

i use my surround for everything. with my onkyo reciever, i can change dsp's at the push of a button so i dont need those bulky looking speakers. i never liked the speakers on the side of the panel. makes it look too wide.


I didn't really like them at first either, but they have grown on me and people that comer think the plasma is bigger cause of it. I can care less about making people think it is bigger, but I put them on cause I figured, why waste the energy turning on the surround receiver, my subs amp and EQ when the family or some shows are not going to benefit from it.

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post #20 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 01:47 PM
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Don't forget that with flat panels 44% larger means a 44% greater chance of an unacceptable number of bad pixels. So there's going to be a higher rejection rate in all probability w/t a greater cost associated with that.

Then there's the fact that prices are always higher for premium items. Which quite frankly is probably most of the expense.

That and the smaller quantities.
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post #21 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TPnBobcats View Post

Don't forget that with flat panels 44% larger means a 44% greater chance of an unacceptable number of bad pixels. So there's going to be a higher rejection rate in all probability w/t a greater cost associated with that.

Then there's the fact that prices are always higher for premium items. Which quite frankly is probably most of the expense. That and the smaller quantities.

The Pro111 and Pro151 have the exact same # of pixels, so there is not a 44% greater chance of an unacceptable number of bad pixels.

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post #22 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 02:29 PM
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discopaul "KURO inches" post in 3, 2, 1...
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post #23 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

The Pro111 and Pro151 have the exact same # of pixels, so there is not a 44% greater chance of an unacceptable number of bad pixels.

It's not about the number of pixels, it's about the area that has to be manufactured perfectly with no defects.
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post #24 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TPnBobcats View Post

It's not about the number of pixels, it's about the area that has to be manufactured perfectly with no defects.

ok, so what you meant is production yield for the 60" glass cost more like others have mentioned.

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post #25 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfunny1980 View Post

....Is there any reasonable logic for the HUGE price jump? Please help!

so afunny, no mystery just same ole reasonable logic and this exact topic has been discussed several times in the Pioneer threads.

Competition
Production cost/yields
Packaging/Shipping space and weights cost
Economy of scale
Supply/demand
Profit margins
Luxury
Size matters

etc etc.......

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post #26 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 03:25 PM
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and, fwiw, if you have the cash (i.e. aren't going into debt, aren't feeding your kids alpo, all the normal disclaimers), the extra 10 inches is worth every frickin penny of those $2500...

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post #27 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

well the 600m is always an option. just a few more bones than the 111.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSo View Post

+1 For less than $3K, you can get the Kuro 600M. It almost makes the discounted 111 seem expensive.

For detail, check out these two thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1126267
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102574

What they said
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post #28 of 44 Old 05-06-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

so afunny, no mystery just same ole reasonable logic and this exact topic has been discussed several times in the Pioneer threads.

Competition
Production cost/yields
Packaging/Shipping space and weights cost
Economy of scale
Supply/demand
Profit margins
Luxury
Size matters

etc etc.......

Bingo...very nice post...

The reason for PDP's displays at the larger sizes (60-inches and up) is due to production yields and undersupply. There is currently a condition of undersupply for many sizes of PDP's displays due to the number of manufacturing plants available and the current configuration of those plants. Couple this with lower yields on larger display sizes due to burned out pixels and quality control, and you have a demand situation which forces PDP prices way up for displays over 42-50".

Chris
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post #29 of 44 Old 05-07-2009, 04:29 PM
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Seeing this thread has gone well I'm tempted to start a thread on "$1500 more for 0 more KURO inches in Canada".

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #30 of 44 Old 05-07-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Seeing this thread has gone well I'm tempted to start a thread on "$1500 more for 0 more KURO inches in Canada".

But you get an extra year of warranty on the ELites
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