Samsung PNXXB850 & PNXXB860 Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

Really? I thought the 8 series Samsung plasmas had better blacks than the 5 series due to the improved antireflective screen.

Not this year I guess. Chad calibrated both of these units. Chad came up with the contract ratio measurements within minutes of each other. ( Just about the same )
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post #32 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Not this year I guess. Chad calibrated both of these units. Chad came up with the contract ratio measurements within minutes of each other. ( Just about the same )

So is he going to post the measurements or am I missing something?
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post #33 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 07:13 PM
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Perhaps the 8-series has better blacks... in a brightly-lit room due to the better AG coating.

Surprising that the 550 could match the 860 in black levels. Does the 8-series excel elsewhere, such as color accuracy, image noise (i.e. visible dithering), etc?
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post #34 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 07:42 PM
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Can we just wait for the review?
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post #35 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 09:07 PM
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It's so hard to wait!! This is very exciting for me, as I've been waiting for a good review of the 860!! I'm planning on the 50", but it should be the same performance as the 58" I'm sure.

We greatly appreciate you guys getting this TV in and reviewing it so fast, thanks!!!
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post #36 of 3220 Old 05-17-2009, 10:44 PM
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we have probably too great expectations for its black level.
but black level is not everything and now we must see how the rest of the image is.
but generally 860 will be a Excellent set overall.
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post #37 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 02:35 AM
 
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Guys,
With all due respect Cleveland is a dealer. Please treat his opinions in this regard.

For the record I casually compared the new Samsung 58" 860 plasma to the beloved Kuro at Magnolia. The 860 was brighter, naturally sharper and offered better motion resolution. In an aerial view of a city, the Samsung offered greater clarity. Even so with just a person’s face. The Kuro seemed a bit mis-focused in comparison.

Both had comparable black levels in the subdued lighting environment. The Kuro had more accurate deep reds with the uncalibrated 860 being a bit orange.

Power efficiency: While the 860 screen was not as hot as the Kuro, it still got fairly warm.

With a MSRP of $3200 the 58" 860 deserves serious consideration. My preliminary finding is I would purchase the 860 over the Kuro, without even taking (its double) price into consideration.
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post #38 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 02:38 AM
 
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Can I make a constructive suggestion? If the generous fellows at Cleveland Plasma are kind enough to share many more pics of the 860, like they did with the UB7100/G10 comparison, could they use a tripod this time? If they do not have a tripod, simply take that giant box the 58" came in and stand it on end! Also, please use the timer, so there is no shake on the camera when you depress the button.

Also, with regards to the first couple of pics. What were the settings? I think it would be more helpful if people mentioned the settings on the display along with the pics, and also could they tell us if the set has been calibrated or not.

The blacks are majorly crushed in the first couple of pics. I hope those are uncalibrated out of the box settings. Either that or the camera settings needs major tweaking.

Thanks for the first look photos.
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post #39 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Not this year I guess. Chad calibrated both of these units. Chad came up with the contract ratio measurements within minutes of each other. ( Just about the same )

Chris,

Can you please expalin to me the difference between the 58b650 and 58b860 Samsung Plasmas. If you have seen the 63b590 I would love to hear your impressions of that set !
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post #40 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 05:23 AM
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Anyone who thinks photographs are at all useful in evaluatin a displays performance should get out their camera and take some pictures of some TV’s. They will soon see that it is virtually impossible to get a photograph that accurately represents what they see. Crushed blacks and or blown out whites are the norm and color is usually WAY off.
There are so many variables it’s basically useless as an exercise, so don’t bother.
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post #41 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Anyone who thinks photographs are at all useful in evaluatin a displays performance should get out their camera and take some pictures of some TV's. They will soon see that it is virtually impossible to get a photograph that accurately represents what they see. Crushed blacks and or blown out whites are the norm and color is usually WAY off.
There are so many variables it's basically useless as an exercise, so don't bother.

I agree, as I'm sure many others do too. I am mainly interested in the actual measurements and Chad and Chris's professional honest opinions.

I am looking forward to pictures though, moreso because I"m not moving into my house for another month and a half, and it's too hard to wait to get this tv without seeing some more of it!
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post #42 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Anyone who thinks photographs are at all useful in evaluatin a displays performance should get out their camera and take some pictures of some TV's. They will soon see that it is virtually impossible to get a photograph that accurately represents what they see. Crushed blacks and or blown out whites are the norm and color is usually WAY off.
There are so many variables it's basically useless as an exercise, so don't bother.

That is not entierly trough... This all depends on the camra and the person who takes the pics.. You can get preaty acurate pics using the right equipment. Anyhow. I think that pics will give you a good indication of the tv. You just need to take in to considiration what you are seeing and that it is a picture!

Jens
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post #43 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Anyone who thinks photographs are at all useful in evaluatin a displays performance should get out their camera and take some pictures of some TV's. They will soon see that it is virtually impossible to get a photograph that accurately represents what they see. Crushed blacks and or blown out whites are the norm and color is usually WAY off.
There are so many variables it's basically useless as an exercise, so don't bother.

This is true, pictures are just something nice to look at In a forum a picture puts a image in ones mind, and thats about it.
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post #44 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

This is true, pictures are just something nice to look at In a forum a picture puts a image in ones mind, and thats about it.


when do you think that the review will be printed here?

JP
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post #45 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:17 PM
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Cleveland - is there anyone at Samsung who can give you the honest-to-God truth about the differences between the 850 and 860?

Can you confirm/deny that the 860 adds:
-Cinema Smooth?
-Crystal Full HD Engine? (what the hell is this anyways? "Indulge in images with incredible clarity. By unifying all of the TVs advanced imaging technologies, the Samsung Crystal Full HD Engine expands performance, enhances all aspects of the image, and takes picture quality and image integrity to new levels of excellence." What does that mean?)
-integrated woofer?
-day/night calibration option?

Did I miss anything? Does the 850 have any of the above?
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post #46 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

Cleveland - is there anyone at Samsung who can give you the honest-to-God truth about the differences between the 850 and 860?

Can you confirm/deny that the 860 adds:
-Cinema Smooth?
-Crystal Full HD Engine? (what the hell is this anyways? "Indulge in images with incredible clarity. By unifying all of the TVs advanced imaging technologies, the Samsung Crystal Full HD Engine expands performance, enhances all aspects of the image, and takes picture quality and image integrity to new levels of excellence." What does that mean?)
-integrated woofer?
-day/night calibration option?

Did I miss anything? Does the 850 have any of the above?

There are 3 things that are different :

These are on the 860 and not 850
day/night calibration option
cinema smooth (althoug you can enable it in the service menu on 850)
led light in front..

Crystal Full HD Engine is the processing card/software are on both, subwoofer are also on both

You dont need any from samsung to confirm this.. This is 110%

Jens
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post #47 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenseike View Post

There are 3 things that are different :

...........................
cinema smooth (althoug you can enable it in the service menu on 850)
...........................
Jens


I think we still need confirmation on this one. If it actually works I'll be buying the 850 as soon as it's back in stock.
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post #48 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenseike View Post

There are 3 things that are different :

These are on the 860 and not 850
day/night calibration option
cinema smooth (althoug you can enable it in the service menu on 850)
led light in front..

Crystal Full HD Engine is the processing card/software are on both, subwoofer are also on both

You dont need any from samsung to confirm this.. This is 110%

Jens

I'm not convinced...where did you get your info?

I saw a cheat sheet at best buy that a samsung rep provided (not a best buy sheet), which showed the 850 and 860 as both having cinema smooth. Is that right? Probably not. The same sheet also differentiated the 860 as having the woofer + speakers and the 850 with speakers only.

Samsung's website and spec sheets talk about cinema smooth and crystal full hd on the 860 only - there is no mention of either on the 850. I've seen it reported here that the website used to list the 850 as having both too! Also, it has been reported here that there is an option to turn 24x4 on in the 850 service menu, enabling Cinema Smooth.

Finally, there was a member here who e-mailed Samsung asking about cinema smooth on the 850, to which the answer was 'yes.'

So clearly there is a ton of confusion, and Samsung isn't helping. Unless you can cite/document you claim, you aren't helping either.
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post #49 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

I'm not convinced...where did you get your info?

I saw a cheat sheet at best buy that a samsung rep provided (not a best buy sheet), which showed the 850 and 860 as both having cinema smooth. Is that right? Probably not. The same sheet also differentiated the 860 as having the woofer + speakers and the 850 with speakers only.

Samsung's website and spec sheets talk about cinema smooth and crystal full hd on the 860 only - there is no mention of either on the 850. I've seen it reported here that the website used to list the 850 as having both too! Also, it has been reported here that there is an option to turn 24x4 on in the 850 service menu, enabling Cinema Smooth.

Finally, there was a member here who e-mailed Samsung asking about cinema smooth on the 850, to which the answer was 'yes.'

So clearly there is a ton of confusion, and Samsung isn't helping. Unless you can cite/document you claim, you aren't helping either.

If you read this forum samsung 2009 plasma tread you will see there are many many many many people that are confirming this. (people that owns a 850 and people that have been looking at the menu at stors). This has also been confirmed by samsung HD tech at the samsung forum tread at cnet.com.. He has checked, checked and recheced this several times.. Also the head of samsung production in US also confirm this. What more do you need?????????

The Crystal Full HD Engine is what are running among others the cinema smooth function and take care of coloration and are for sure in both models.. Setting the cinema smooth function in the 850 DO work, this has also been confirmed.

These are exectly the same panels. There are not any different on these.. What are different are posible to change in the service menu on the 850. .If you have been folowing this product as I have since samsung first presented it, you would understand this. The 860 is just a speciall delivery for speciall stores and therfor another name.. I can also tell you that in the rest of the world (not us) there will be only ONE model and this is called 855. This is also exact the same as 860 since it have cinema smooth enabled in the menu.

And I can ensure you.. You cant trust an answer coming from samsung support (wich I recond have answered that email), they dont know anything about their own product.


PLEASE turn to the other tread with this kind of discussion.. This has been debated page up and down and are for sure confirmed long time ago ....

AND keep this tread an OWNER tread as the heading say
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post #50 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:58 PM
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I can not see there is a subwoofer in eu model ps50b855, is this only on us model.
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post #51 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenseike View Post

If you read this forum samsung 2009 plasma tread you will see there are many many many many people that are confirming this. (people that owns a 850 and people that have been looking at the menu at stors). This has also been confirmed by samsung HD tech at the samsung forum tread at cnet.com.. He has checked, checked and recheced this several times.. Also if you read the tread you see that the head of samsung marketing in US also confirm this.

The Crystal Full HD Engine is what are running among others the cinema smooth function and take care of coloration and are for sure in both models.. Setting the cinema smooth function in the 850 DO work, this has also been confirmed.

And I can ensure you.. You cant trust an answer coming from samsung support (wich I recond have answered that email), they dont know anything about their own product.

Is it too much trouble to ask for a link to the post in the thread(s) you are referring to where this is "confirmed?"

I figured since Cleveland is such a big dealer he might know someone who could get him some definitive answers...

It's extremely frustrating that Samsung can't seem to clearly differentiate their 850/860...

Quote:


PLEASE turn to the other tread with this kind of discussion.. This has been debated page up and down and are for sure confirmed long time ago ....

AND keep this tread an OWNER tread as the heading say

What other thread? Are you an OWNER?
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post #52 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

Is it too much trouble to ask for a link to the post in the thread(s) you are referring to where this is "confirmed?"

I figured since Cleveland is such a big dealer he might know someone who could get him some definitive answers...

It's extremely frustrating that Samsung can't seem to clearly differentiate their 850/860...



What other thread? Are you an OWNER?

The other tread is the samsung plasma 09 tread. Keep this tread clean, most that are here have allready discussed this trough.. And yes, I am an owner..
Cleveland are also reading the other tread.. I can asure you!!!


Here is the link.. Now, please take this to the other tread :

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_10...rum-w;forums06

You can see that even he is frustrating at first, but he checks this many times so....

Here are the other tread.. It is very long and because of that we need this tread clean so we easily
can find info from other owners...!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108053
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post #53 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenseike View Post

The other tread is the samsung plasma 09 tread. Keep this tread clean, most that are here have allready discussed this trough.. And yes, I am an owner..
Cleveland are also reading the other tread.. I can asure you!!!


Here is the link.. Now, please take this to the other tread :

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_10...rum-w;forums06

You can see that even he is frustrating at first, but he checks this many times so....

Here are the other tread.. It is very long and because of that we need this tread clean so we easily
can find info from other owners...!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108053

Thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that one. I still don't see anything about the "Crystal Full HD engine" on the 850 or not though...

My 850 gets here on Wednesday, so I'll stay in this thread if it doesn't bother you too much
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post #54 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_23 View Post

Thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that one. I still don't see anything about the "Crystal Full HD engine" on the 850 or not though...

My 850 gets here on Wednesday, so I'll stay in this thread if it doesn't bother you too much

hehe.. No, it does not bother me at all. You are very welcome.. I just think that the cinema smooth discussion can stay at that other tread since it is allready so many post there.. Regarding the engine.. If you check out other countrys, like f eks the netherland (they have the 850), and you can see in the spec that also this have cinema smooth.. IT is THIS engine that are running the process of cinema smooth.. So there you go...

http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/d...XXC&fullspec=F

http://www.samsung.com/no/consumer/d...XXE&fullspec=F
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post #55 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 02:17 PM
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I'm confused when people say they want Cinema Smooth, but will save the $100 and make a change in the service menu to get that feature on the 850.

Does this not invalidate ones' warranty and also isn't there a risk of screwing something else up ... why would folks do this to save $100 on an expensive TV that they can afford?
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Crystal Full HD engine on 860 is there anyone who know what it does. because it is not on a 850
I can not understand they make two models i us.
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post #57 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcardman View Post

Crystal Full HD engine on 860 is there anyone who know what it does. because it is not on a 850
I can not understand they make two models i us.

Cystal engine HD IS Cinema Smooth 24p feature, LOL
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post #58 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zman58 View Post

I'm confused when people say they want Cinema Smooth, but will save the $100 and make a change in the service menu to get that feature on the 850.

Does this not invalidate ones' warranty and also isn't there a risk of screwing something else up ... why would folks do this to save $100 on an expensive TV that they can afford?

Going into the SM technically does not void the warrenty. And hey, whether you can afford it or not, $100 is still $100. Do you get paid that per hour? Good salary if you do. For 30 seconds worth of work hitting: mute 1 8 2 power and turning on 24x4 , thats a pretty good trade, LOL.
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post #59 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcardman View Post

Crystal Full HD engine on 860 is there anyone who know what it does. because it is not on a 850
I can not understand they make two models i us.

yes.. it is on the 850 as well.. 850 and 860 is really 100% the same tv. just another name for speciall delivery.. the spesiall features are just disabled on the 850.. but the hardware and software are 100% THE SAME...
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post #60 of 3220 Old 05-18-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyBongHitsWee View Post

Going into the SM technically does not void the warrenty. And hey, whether you can afford it or not, $100 is still $100. Do you get paid that per hour? Good salary if you do. For 30 seconds worth of work hitting: mute 1 8 2 power and turning on 24x4 , thats a pretty good trade, LOL.

OK, fair enough. Learn something new every day. I'd be happy to get the 850 and make the change if the warranty is not voided.

And, of course, I'd be happy to save the $100 like everyone ... just not if it voided the warranty (what is the reference to "technically does not" mean).

Regarding my pay level ... no, not quite up to the quoted level but not far off. But, I have a feeling that I have a few years on you :-).
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