The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got2go View Post

Hi,

I recently bought krp 500m. Havent used it much, just doing break-in process. I have a question regarding upscaling.

1. Does KRP upscale through all inputs or only certain inputs? If I attach my Wii and my DirectTv HD receiver to my 919 (has no 1080p upconversion), and send it to TV via HDMI, will my KRP upconvert the SD channels, and video (I do watch some youtube videos) from Wii? Or do I need to connect it to other inputs of the TV, if so which ones?

Thanks

I have a new KRP 500M, too. Its fabulous. But it is not a TV. It is a monitor or display. As far as I can tell from the manual etc., it does not upscale.
Your source must do the upscale. But the 500M takes whatever is thrown at it and what you see is stunning, stunning. Nothing like it, in my experience so far with regard to consumer displays. Have fun. I am sure if I am wrong about the upscaling, the folks on this forum will rescue both of us from ignorance.
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post #272 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 12:43 PM
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bodosom, do you have color output set to 4:2:2 and deep color disabled in the Oppo?
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post #273 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

Have you shared this with the folks in the -83 or 9G threads?

No as of yet, probably a psychological response because of the RGB bug which makes things (seem) KRP specific.
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post #274 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

bodosom, do you have color output set to 4:2:2 and deep color disabled in the Oppo?

I've done deep color on and off (because I wanted to see the status change to 36-bit which it didn't) but YCC fails chroma multiburst so I do RGB. That's true on my Sony player too. Poor KRP, it's probably starting to feel picked on.

When I'm done fiddling I'll compare my stuff to sillysally and post something somewhere.
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post #275 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:


it does not upscale.

Yes it does. It can only ever display 1080p, thus anything that's not 1080p will be upscaled and/or deinterlaced (if necessary) by the display.
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post #276 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 01:01 PM
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As far as I can tell optimal HDMI Options settings for the -83 are...

(output res 'Source Direct')

Deinterlacing mode - Auto
Cue Correction - Auto
Color Space - 4:2:2
Deep color - Off

Have you tried this combo and if so has it failed the S & M cadence tests?

Do you have the latest firmware installed?
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post #277 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

Have you tried this combo and if so has it failed the S & M cadence tests?

I would expect any settings that deinterlace in the -83 to pass the tests. I have a splitter coming that will make input switching simpler but I'm fairly confident the AVR isn't involved.

Quote:


Do you have the latest firmware installed?

I just installed the latest public beta code which was also an adventure and haven't had time to test anything. The upgrade problems almost prompted a post but the -83 thread is a bit bulky and I haven't finished searching/skimming the many many posts that mention firmware and/or usb drive.
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post #278 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 01:27 PM
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it does not upscale.

Yes it does. It can only ever display 1080p, thus anything that's not 1080p will be upscaled and/or deinterlaced (if necessary) by the display.

Which is it?

I cant find upscale or deinterlacing in the krp manual...

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post #279 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theSteam View Post

Which is it?

The panel only displays native resolution (1080p) at some refresh frequency. All other signals are converted to native resolution. I'm fairly sure this is true of all modern digital fixed pixel displays (for the consumer market). The panel also displays RGB which can involve another conversion, two if you're unlucky.
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post #280 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I've done deep color on and off (because I wanted to see the status change to 36-bit which it didn't) but YCC fails chroma multiburst so I do RGB. That's true on my Sony player too. Poor KRP, it's probably starting to feel picked on.

When I'm done fiddling I'll compare my stuff to sillysally and post something somewhere.

Does the PS3 fail chroma multiburst tests in YCC? Is this a reason why D-Nice suggests RGB over YCC?

Pioneer KRP-500m
Panasonic 65VT50
M&K LCR-750s Fronts and Center
M&K M-4T Surrounds
X-Rite i1pro
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post #281 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 02:25 PM
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Hey guys--I pulled the trigger on this display a couple days ago. Got a great price from an authorized dealer. It should be arriving next Tuesday.

I read over the FAQ. The part that has me worried is the settings for the PS3 and KRP.
I will primarily be using this display for blu-ray watching via the ps3 along with some games. What settings should I use?
Can I set the TV to AUTO, the ps3 display setting to RGB full(for games) and the video setting to YCC?(for movies) Or does the display setting need to be limited?
Its so confusing!

Any help would be much appreciated!
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post #282 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 02:28 PM
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^^ i actually want to know the same.
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post #283 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 02:43 PM
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Quote:


I cant find upscale or deinterlacing in the krp manual...

Probably because they happen automatically.

The 500M can ONLY display a 1080p image. Thus, if you input anything other than 1080p (like 480i/p, 720p, 1080i), the 500M will convert the signal to 1080p.

If it didn't, you wouldn't see anything on the screen.
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post #284 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 03:28 PM
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I will be setting up my 500m next week...plan to put it on the same Whalen 3-in-1 stand w/mount that my old Samsung was on. Dumb question though...do they actually come WITH the M8 screws on the back side of the panel, or do I need to make a Home Depot run for those? Thanks guys.
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post #285 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm evaluating an Oppo BD-83. The KRP fails all of the cadence tests I've done using the -83 as a source. Not surprisingly the BD-83 passed the same set of tests.

What Film Mode is set on the KRP?

I'm surprised it's failing so much since Film Mode Advance seems to work perfectly with 1080i and 720p content coming from Satellite.
I don't have a BD player or test disc to do more thorough testing like you do.

Let us know what you think of the Oppo. If too far off-topic, please send a PM. A BD player may be our next purchase, but it might be a receiver/pre-pro first to simplify audio and HDMI switching issues.

- LoopinFool
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post #286 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LoopinFool View Post

Let us know what you think of the Oppo. If too far off-topic, please send a PM.

Ditto! I'd love to know too. Even if I think the Oppo is over-featured for my needs, the detailed engineering attention is an attraction.

-Dave
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post #287 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

Hey guys--I pulled the trigger on this display a couple days ago. Got a great price from an authorized dealer. It should be arriving next Tuesday.

I read over the FAQ. The part that has me worried is the settings for the PS3 and KRP.
I will primarily be using this display for blu-ray watching via the ps3 along with some games. What settings should I use?
Can I set the TV to AUTO, the ps3 display setting to RGB full(for games) and the video setting to YCC?(for movies) Or does the display setting need to be limited?
Its so confusing!

Any help would be much appreciated!

Go to the 1st page on this thread and under settings ? 4 your answer awaits.

Awaiting the Reference Standard in Blu Ray REGION FREE Player Technology and EW service..............................still waiting. :)
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post #288 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrgamer View Post

Go to the 1st page on this thread and under settings ? 4 your answer awaits.

Unfortunately the FAQ gives you 3-4 "correct" answers.

Pioneer KRP-500m
Panasonic 65VT50
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M&K M-4T Surrounds
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post #289 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Unfortunately the FAQ gives you 3-4 "correct" answers.

Don't start a settings war now?

Awaiting the Reference Standard in Blu Ray REGION FREE Player Technology and EW service..............................still waiting. :)
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post #290 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:46 PM
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Well, as I said in my original post I did read the FAQ on the first page and it seemed a little unclear. I was also wondering if a consensus had been reached about which settings need to be used for both video and games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrgamer View Post

Go to the 1st page on this thread and under settings ? 4 your answer awaits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

Hey guys--I pulled the trigger on this display a couple days ago. Got a great price from an authorized dealer. It should be arriving next Tuesday.

I read over the FAQ. The part that has me worried is the settings for the PS3 and KRP.
I will primarily be using this display for blu-ray watching via the ps3 along with some games. What settings should I use?
Can I set the TV to AUTO, the ps3 display setting to RGB full(for games) and the video setting to YCC?(for movies) Or does the display setting need to be limited?
Its so confusing!

Any help would be much appreciated!

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post #291 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginnywop View Post

do they actually come WITH the M8 screws on the back side of the panel

The bolts come with the mount or stand not with the monitor so you'll need to make a trip to the hardware store.
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post #292 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Unfortunately the FAQ gives you 3-4 "correct" answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

Well, as I said in my original post I did read the FAQ on the first page and it seemed a little unclear.

Since people who own both a PS3 and a KRP don't agree with each other it's possible there is no single correct answer. There are a number of valid reasons for this since AVRs, switches and firmware can all get involved in color space issues. In all likelihood one of the options will be satisfactory. It's unfortunate that Pioneer released the monitor with this particular bug given the large number of PS3s in the wild.
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post #293 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Since people who own both a PS3 and a KRP don't agree with each other it's possible there is no single correct answer. There are a number of valid reasons for this since AVRs, switches and firmware can all get involved in color space issues. In all likelihood one of the options will be satisfactory. It's unfortunate that Pioneer released the monitor with this particular bug given the large number of PS3s in the wild.

Thanks Bodosom. Well, i'm using and Pioneer elite SC-05 reciever. From what I understand it should just be passing the HDMI signal untouched.

So, with that in mind--are there any folks using a PS3, pioneer elite reciever with their KRPs that can comment on what settings they are using?
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post #294 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 05:14 PM
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Since firmware is on my mind I started trying to remember if I've ever seen a firmware update for a 9G monitor.
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post #295 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

Thanks Bodosom. Well, i'm using and Pioneer elite SC-05 reciever. From what I understand it should just be passing the HDMI signal untouched.

There should be a flowchart/decision tree.
e.g
  1. Are games important? No -- use YCC. Yes -- go to step 2.
  2. Am I willing to switch colorspace by hand? Yes -- switch color space. No -- go to step 3.
  3. Can I write a macro for my remote control? Yes -- go to step 4. No go to step 5.
  4. Start writing macro
  5. Sell KRP
  6. etc. etc.

I lack the motivation to produce such a chart but maybe some enterprising PS3 owner already has. I'd check the PS3 threads.
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post #296 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

There should be a flowchart/decision tree.
e.g
  1. Are games important? No -- use YCC. Yes -- go to step 2.
  2. Am I willing to switch colorspace by hand? Yes -- switch color space. No -- go to step 3.
  3. Can I write a macro for my remote control? Yes -- go to step 4. No go to step 5.
  4. Start writing macro
  5. Sell KRP
  6. etc. etc.

I lack the motivation to produce such a chart but maybe some enterprising PS3 owner already has. I'd check the PS3 threads.

Right, thanks.
I guess the next question is, what exactly is the nature of the "bug?" Also, how do I check that my settings are correct or incorrect? I have the THX optimizer on the T2 bluray and also the Avia DVD.

Edit: after rereading the FAQ a little more closely, it looks like the bug is that when Auto is employed on the KRP it isn't really Auto at all. It is the same as setting it to 0-255 RGB. Is that correct?
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post #297 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 08:16 PM
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anyone have component calibration settings?
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post #298 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

after rereading the FAQ a little more closely, it looks like the bug is that when Auto is employed on the KRP it isn't really Auto at all. It is the same as setting it to 0-255 RGB. Is that correct?

Auto detects everything correctly except RGB(16-235). It will detect YCbCr (all flavors) and RGB and switch accordingly. The bug is that when Auto mode detects an RGB signal, it always sets the KRP's input to RGB(0-255), even when the signal is actually RGB(16-235).

Here is Pioneer's entertaining reponse to my question regarding this issue:

Me: "There is a bug in the current KRP-x00M firmware: When the HDMI input is set to "Auto", the monitor incorrectly detects RGB(16-235) input signals as RGB(0-255). Are there any plans to provide a firmware update to fix this issue?"

Pioneer: "If input signal is RGB and "RGB RQ" is "Default" in case of Video=Auto,PDP distinguishes as PC connection and sets to RGB(0-255). Therefore, it does not match with STB output, RGB (16-235). Or you can change the signal setting of STB from RGB to YCbCr
or YPbPr? If it is possible to change to YCbCr or YPbPr (Color difference signal), PDP sets RGB 16-235.This is based on specification as follows. As you know, manual is also mentioning to set signal type other than AUTO when the picture is not displayed correctly and it is within intention of specification. Please ask customer to change PDP setting to RGB(16-235)."
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post #299 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Auto detects everything correctly except RGB(16-235). It will detect YCbCr (all flavors) and RGB and switch accordingly. The bug is that when Auto mode detects an RGB signal, it always sets the KRP's input to RGB(0-255), even when the signal is actually RGB(16-235).

Here is Pioneer's entertaining reponse to my question regarding this issue:

Me: There is a bug in the current KRP-x00M firmware: When the HDMI input is set to "Auto", the monitor incorrectly detects RGB(16-235) input signals as RGB(0-255). Are there any plans to provide a firmware update to fix this issue?

Pioneer: If input signal is RGB and "RGB RQ" is "Default" in case of Video=Auto,PDP distinguishes as PC connection and sets to RGB(0-255). Therefore, it does not match with STB output, RGB (16-235). Or you can change the signal setting of STB from RGB to YCbCr
or YPbPr? If it is possible to change to YCbCr or YPbPr (Color difference signal), PDP sets RGB 16-235.This is based on specification as follows. As you know, manual is also mentioning to set signal type other than AUTO when the picture is not displayed correctly and it is within intention of specification. Please ask customer to change PDP setting to RGB(16-235).

Thanks for the clarification! So, would this combination work out?
KRP=AUTO
PS3 RGB FULL RANGE=FULL(full is 0-255 and limited is 16-235, right?)
PS3 BD/DVD video output format=AUTOMATIC or YPb/CB

What is the drawback in forcing the PS3 to output video in RGB?
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post #300 of 7070 Old 07-17-2009, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kevin- View Post

Thanks for the clarification! So, would this combination work out?
KRP=AUTO
PS3 RGB FULL RANGE=FULL(full is 0-255 and limited is 16-235, right?)
PS3 BD/DVD video output format=AUTOMATIC or YPb/CB

Yes, that would work, although I would set the PS3 BD Video to YCbCr rather than Automatic to avoid any confusion.
Quote:


What is the drawback in forcing the PS3 to output video in RGB?

In the example above, you would not be setting the PS3 to output video in RGB, it would be YCbCr, and games would be RGB.

If you are asking about a qualitative comparison of BD video output in RGB vs. YCbCr on the KRP, you would need a test disk like Spears & Munsil* to determine that.

(*Bodosom owes me a nickel for that)
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