The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 7057 Old 07-17-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Yes, that would work, although I would set the PS3 BD Video to YCbCr rather than Automatic to avoid any confusion.
In the example above, you would not be setting the PS3 to output video in RGB, it would be YCbCr, and games would be RGB.

If you are asking about a qualitative comparison of BD video output in RGB vs. YCbCr on the KRP, you would need a test disk like Spears & Munsil* to determine that.

(*Bodosom owes me a nickel for that)

Yeah, I was just asking for a comparison of the different ways of outputting the video.
Thanks for the info!
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post #302 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

(output res 'Source Direct')
...
Color Space - 4:2:2

Source Direct fails cadence tests (as I noted earlier) so I use Auto. Non-RGB colorspaces fail the Chroma Multiburst test. It wouldn't surprise me if this is another bug in the KRP since YCC to RGB conversion is a solved problem. I doubt if Pioneer will release a patch to fix this or the other RGB problem.


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post #303 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan K View Post

Hi Guys,
I am a recent owner of a 500M, love it immensely, but I'm plagued by phosphor trails...thought I'd be a part of the 98%, but guess not (it's my first plasma). Anyway, I've read mixed experiences with it, but I need to decide soon if I should deal with the colors or go with the XBR9 or B750 LCD. Some people have said that their viewing of phosphor trails has gotten much better after a few months. I think I'm noticing a slight improvement, but not enough to be a happy Kuro owner. I'd like to get your opinions.

1) First, do you see trails at all? If so, is it tolerable, or do you regret your purchase? Any advice?

I have a 141. I've only seen trails with scrolling white credits on a black background. I filed the observation in the "isn't that curious" category. I've never seen trails with other program material and the fact that I saw them on credits doesn't bother me at all.

It certainly would not be enough to move me to LCD.
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post #304 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 04:57 PM
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I just received my 600 earlier this week and my Peerless mount arrived yesterday. Attached are comparison picture of the 600 to the 5080 (which will be moved to the bedroom). I don't even have to reprogram my remote since my other components have not changed and I used the same inputs as before. For those interested, i had a Peerless 660 mount for the 5080 and a Peerless 670 for the 600. I highly recommend both of these mounts for easy solutions that mount the panels very close to the wall. The 600 is only a total of 4.25" out! I turned the set on briefly and everything seems to be in working order. I plan to do the D-Nice break-in for 150 hours using the Evangelo DVD. After that I plan on playing on using some tried and true settings and potentially getting the patch at some point in the future. Here are a couple quick pics from my cell phone camera.

Thanks again to bodosom and dssturbo1 for helping me make the right choices.

5080


krp-600m



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post #305 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massiveheadache View Post

I just received my 600 earlier this week...


isnt it a shame that 1) that movie sucked, and 2) the PQ off of cable is just plain sh*tty. (assuming you were watching Oceans 13 yesterday on TNT)
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post #306 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 09:59 PM
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Anyone found some speakers that fit and look good with the 600m? Would like to have an option that doesn't involve my surround system for basic tv viewing.
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post #307 of 7057 Old 07-18-2009, 10:22 PM
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These are interesting:

TRI Channel System

Pinnicle QP7 ( Left, Center, Right, all in on speaker )
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Pinnicle QP9 ( Left, Center, Right, all in on speaker. Larger version. )
http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/quantumplasma9.html

Pinnicle QP3 ( Rears )
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In Wall/On Wall Flat Panel System

QP3 Piano Gloss Black ( Left, Center, Right, seperate speakers )
http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/quantumplasma3.html

QP3 IWC ( In wall system )
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QP5 Piano Gloss Black ( Left, Center, Right, seperate speakers. Upgrade. )
http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/quantumplasma5.html

QP5 IWC ( In wall system )
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QP3 ( Rear )
http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/quantumplasma2.html

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post #308 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTracy3 View Post

Anyone found some speakers that fit and look good with the 600m? Would like to have an option that doesn't involve my surround system for basic tv viewing.

Check the FAQ.
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post #309 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post

isnt it a shame that 1) that movie sucked, and 2) the PQ off of cable is just plain sh*tty. (assuming you were watching Oceans 13 yesterday on TNT)

Yes and Yes. That was Oceans 13 but I only had it on for a minute or two to make sure that everything was working properly.
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post #310 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTracy3 View Post

Anyone found some speakers that fit and look good with the 600m? Would like to have an option that doesn't involve my surround system for basic tv viewing.

The relatively small amplifier in the KRP is always an issue. Unpowered speakers should be tested (on a variety of material) in home before committing to a purchase. Powered speakers will need matching as noted in the accessories section.


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post #311 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post

isnt it a shame that 1) that movie sucked, and 2) the PQ off of cable is just plain sh*tty. (assuming you were watching Oceans 13 yesterday on TNT)

I swear TNT screws up every HD movie it broadcasts. Always too noisy and too saturated.

Pioneer KRP-500m
Panasonic 65VT50
M&K LCR-750s Fronts and Center
M&K M-4T Surrounds
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post #312 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I swear TNT screws up every HD movie it broadcasts. Always too noisy and too saturated.

God I can't tell you enough how much I hate the quality of TNT broadcasts.
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post #313 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Management View Post

God I can't tell you enough how much I hate the quality of TNT broadcasts.

I don't mind TNTHD but I only watch one thing now. What I don't like is stretching 4:3 material to 16:9 so they (and others, I'm looking at you Food network) can call it HD.

My wife prefers watching stretched material in 4:3 mode. It's not a perfect inversion but it's better than pumpkin heads. I prefer just not watching.


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post #314 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 04:23 PM
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I am testing inverse telecine (IVTC) with some DVDs and 720p ATSC content (House). The 500M properly converts 60p/60i into 24p and displays in 72 Hz in Pure Cinema Advance mode, and Smooth also works. Standard gives me no IVTC as expected. I have a question though for those in the know...

When feeding a 1080/60p stream, this doesn't work. 3:2 pulldown is always done and there is no difference with the various Pure Cinema modes. IVTC with Advance and Smooth mode work just fine with 480p, 720p and 1080i content, everything else being equal. Is this by design or a bug?
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post #315 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 07:45 PM
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Hello hello. I have been shopping plasmas for the past few weeks as my amazing Samsung DLP is going to a new home next week. I found the 500M at a good price and have questions:

Just bought a Elite 07 receiver and plan to be an Elite BR if I get the 500M - are there advantages to using all the same gear at this point? Is there a better way to connect the gear through the receiver moving forward should I buy the 500M?

As compared to the Pan 50V120 and the Sammy 50B860, what are the advantages of the 500m?

As I always use my AVR to watch TV (Comcast Digital cable) and typically only watch the HD channels, how will this set up do for TV viewing (75 % of my time is TV)?

If I can get the 500M for $X and the others are $X-$Y - what do you all think would be a valid Delta to make the 500M not a viable option (I fully realize this is a tough question, but I want some expert opinions)

Please be kind and share thoughts either here or via PM - I hope to make a decision by Tuesday.

Thank very much. J
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post #316 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goormove View Post

Hello hello. I have been shopping plasmas for the past few weeks as my amazing Samsung DLP is going to a new home next week. I found the 500M at a good price and have questions:

Just bought a Elite 07 receiver and plan to be an Elite BR if I get the 500M - are there advantages to using all the same gear at this point? Is there a better way to connect the gear through the receiver moving forward should I buy the 500M? You could probably use the Kuro link and get some on screen display. Other than that, shouldnt make a difference. I guess the remotes would be a little more interoperable.


As compared to the Pan 50V120 and the Sammy 50B860, what are the advantages of the 500m? superior picture quality as long as the room has reasonable light control

As I always use my AVR to watch TV (Comcast Digital cable) and typically only watch the HD channels, how will this set up do for TV viewing (75 % of my time is TV)? doesnt matter

If I can get the 500M for $X and the others are $X-$Y - what do you all think would be a valid Delta to make the 500M not a viable option (I fully realize this is a tough question, but I want some expert opinions) $165.32

Please be kind and share thoughts either here or via PM - I hope to make a decision by Tuesday.

Thank very much. J

answers in bold
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post #317 of 7057 Old 07-19-2009, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goormove View Post

Hello hello. I have been shopping plasmas for the past few weeks as my amazing Samsung DLP is going to a new home next week. I found the 500M at a good price and have questions:

Just bought a Elite 07 receiver and plan to be an Elite BR if I get the 500M - are there advantages to using all the same gear at this point? Is there a better way to connect the gear through the receiver moving forward should I buy the 500M?

As compared to the Pan 50V120 and the Sammy 50B860, what are the advantages of the 500m?

As I always use my AVR to watch TV (Comcast Digital cable) and typically only watch the HD channels, how will this set up do for TV viewing (75 % of my time is TV)?

If I can get the 500M for $X and the others are $X-$Y - what do you all think would be a valid Delta to make the 500M not a viable option (I fully realize this is a tough question, but I want some expert opinions)

Please be kind and share thoughts either here or via PM - I hope to make a decision by Tuesday.

Thank very much. J

As you probably noted, the 500M is a display while the Panasonic and Samsung are "TVs". Thus if you go for the 500M you must supply all sources, tuners etc. In my view, the Samsung is too expensive for what it offers compared to the Panasonic TCP50V10 (the one I sampled for about two hours). I think the picture quality for multiple display uses (from a TV tuner, from a PC, from DVD and Blue ray sources) of the 500M is superior to the Panasonic, but not by so much that you would always notice. Cable boxes are not always the best sources and the quality you see is often a function of what the box and the company transmits more than the display or TV for viewing. So I agree with Irfan with regard to how you will likely use the device 75% of the time. However, I must warn you that if you ever get to actually spend more than 5 or 10 minutes with the KRP 500M with something like blue ray or a good quality transmission of HD TV on the display, you may not be able to consider anything else. Keep in mind that with the Panasonic you are paying for lots of bells and whistles that have nothing to do with picture quality so be sure take into account that for a TV you may be spending $150- $200 of built in costs for items you already have or will not use.
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post #318 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tantowitty View Post

Howdy... Long time listener second time caller....

I have two questions about my new KRP-500:

1. I am looking into the KRP-WM02 "Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount". I'm curious if anyone is using this mount and if so does it allow sufficient air movement for proper cooling. Since it is designed by Pioneer I would "assume" they have researched this and it is a non-issue. Any opinions on this? Also the installation instructions show a safety wire used to prevent the display from falling even if it is pulled off the mount. Has anyone installed this backup safety cable? Where did you get the cable and wall hardware?

2. I want to protect my investment so I talked to a few engineer type people at work and one highly recommended buying an 'automatic voltage regulator & surge protector'. He recommended a specific unit that can handle a maximum output power capacity of 1200W. According to my calculations the KRP-500 has a power requirement of 396W. Is this correct? What are others using to protect their new toy? Thanks!

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post #319 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kennelm View Post

I have a similar problem. All my sources are switched through an Onkyo AVR using HDMI to the 600M. One of the sources is an HTPC, and when I use it, I have to manually switch the video mode to "PC" to avoid aggravating overscan (correctly documented in section 6.3.2). Then, when I use my cable box source, I have to manually change "PC" back to "Video". .....

It certainly looks like the 600M was designed to have each source connected using a different input, which really defeats the purpose of an AVR. Or, I am truly missing something here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I'm not using the switch with an HTPC but I'm running my AVR's output (sources In to AVR) to the switch and using its 2 outputs to the Pioneer (2 Inputs). I have a 2nd switch (most current REV) I'm currently using as well with the KRP-500M next to my primary display but it's normally used with my Projector. - all HDMI of course and I don't think it will be a problem for his HTPC using HDMI......

I am a proud new owner of the KRP 500M. It's broken in - ISF Day / Night patched and running fine.

I'm struggling with the RGB / AVR thing kennelm and many are having. I'm hoping Turbe or others may have some thoughts. Let me first describe my components.
  • KRP 500M w 2 HDMI inputs
  • Panasonic ae900 projector w 1 HDMI input, 2component inputs
  • PS3
  • HD DVR box
  • Sony STRDG720 AVR
  • HDMI 1X2 Splitter

Currently I run the PS3 and the HD DVR into the Sony AVR. The AVR has one output to the HDMI Splitter which outputs to the KRP 500M and the projector. So, yes I'm sharing 2 sources on one KRP port. It does work on Auto but as we all know by now I lose black levels. I also go from 36 bit to 24. I've considered running the PS3 direct to the Kuro, DVR to the AVR to the splitter to the 2 tvs. This loses PS3 digitial audio (can replace with ps3 composite) and video to the projector (can manually swap hdmi cables but i bought the splitter to end that..) Given that both tvs have no speakers and given the RGB bug, my questions are
  1. Turbe and Bodosom etal how would you handle this setup most effectively? by the sounds of it I may need something like a 4x4 hdmi switch? or two 1x3 splitters? (ps3--> avr for audio, krp, 2x1 switch --> ae900. hdvr ---> avr for audio, krp, 2x1 switch --> ae900) or combination of splitters and component to the projector? - damn you Pioneer!
  2. When running the PS3 to Kuro direct, display info on the Kuro says 36 bit. going thru the AVR I get 24 bit (another reason to go direct to the KRP). I'm 90% sure the Sony STRDG720 supports 1.3a hdmi and thus 36bit. First is 36 bit referring to deep color that's been called a unicorn around here? Second is the drop from 36 to 24 related to the RGB bug or something else? Again I'm not 100% sure the STRDG720 supports 1.3a/36bit/deep color...
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post #320 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantowitty View Post

Howdy... Long time listener second time caller....

1. I am looking into the KRP-WM02 "Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount". * * * Also the installation instructions show a safety wire used to prevent the display from falling even if it is pulled off the mount. Has anyone installed this backup safety cable? Where did you get the cable and wall hardware?

The hardware store guys had no wire like that. I picked up a nut and bolt to go through the "safety wire" holes (stronger). Next I bought some chain that will go through the bolt. The same size screws that hold the mount to the wall will also go through the chain to the wall.

KRP diem [kahr-pe dee-em] Latin. seize the KRP; enjoy the present, as opposed to placing all hope in the future.
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post #321 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranalli View Post

I am a proud new owner of the KRP 500M..
  • KRP 500M w 2 HDMI inputs
  • Panasonic ae900 projector w 1 HDMI input, 2component inputs
  • PS3
  • HD DVR box
  • Sony STRDG720 AVR
  • HDMI 1X2 Splitter
  1. Turbe and Bodosom etal how would you handle this setup most effectively..

I guess I am "etal"..
Anyway, congrats on your 500M and welcome to the AVS Forum!
Which "HD DVR box" do you have? If you can answer that question, we may be able to answer your question.


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(Updated 10/29/2009)
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post #322 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranalli View Post

going thru the AVR I get 24 bit (another reason to go direct to the KRP). I'm 90% sure the Sony STRDG720 supports 1.3a hdmi and thus 36bit. First is 36 bit referring to deep color that's been called a unicorn around here? Second is the drop from 36 to 24 related to the RGB bug or something else?

If everything stays the same then yes, your AVR isn't passing greater than 24-bit data. Yes 30, 36 and 48-bit color depths are deep color. The advantages of greater than 24-bit color are subject to dispute and since there's currently no content the only advantage may be in color space conversion arithmetic. Note that Wikipedia says > 24-bit and xvYCC gamut color space are optional so your AVR is probably in spec.

Deep color is certainly nothing to factor into your configuration decision.


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post #323 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (W)KRP View Post

The hardware store guys had no wire like that. I picked up a nut and bolt to go through the "safety wire" holes (stronger). Next I bought some chain that will go through the bolt. The same size screws that hold the mount to the wall will also go through the chain to the wall.

The odds of a unit coming off a mount are slim to none, but never hurts I guess.

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post #324 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (W)KRP View Post

The hardware store guys had no wire like that. I picked up a nut and bolt to go through the "safety wire" holes (stronger). Next I bought some chain that will go through the bolt. The same size screws that hold the mount to the wall will also go through the chain to the wall.

I learned tonight that the bolt will not go straight through the safety wire holes because the perpendicular bolt that holds that rail is in the middle of the space between the safety wire holes. Oh, well.

KRP diem [kahr-pe dee-em] Latin. seize the KRP; enjoy the present, as opposed to placing all hope in the future.
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post #325 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

I guess I am "etal"..
Anyway, congrats on your 500M and welcome to the AVS Forum!
Which "HD DVR box" do you have? If you can answer that question, we may be able to answer your question.

DirecTV HR20-700 and thanks for your thoughts on 36 vs 24 bit Bodosom.
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post #326 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 07:50 PM
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Although short answers are preferable to long ones, the Xbox 360 resolution question in the FAQ is incomplete and not really correct.

- The 360 *does* support 1080p over component, though many TVs don't support that format. Happily, the 500m/600m does!

- The exception to this is for DVD/HD-DVD content -- when connected by component, the 360 will display DVDs at 480p and HD-DVDs at a maximum of 1080i.

- VGA does 1080p for all sources -- games, video content, etc. However, VGA forces you to use "PC mode," which doesn't include nearly as many picture adjustments, the colors and gamma are out of whack, and the black level is lighter. (I admit I haven't kept up with the various KRP threads so there may be a workaround for this by now)

Overall I think component is probably a better choice. You get the accurate color, gamma, etc of video mode AND 1080p resolution. You are limited to 480p with DVDs, but the 360 isn't a great DVD player in any case. HD-DVDs are probably a pretty niche concern at this point, and I'm not sure that the 1080i "limit" is a big deal anyway. For one thing, with 1080i you can use advanced mode to get real 24p via reverse 3:2 pulldown.
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post #327 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranalli View Post

DirecTV HR20-700 and thanks for your thoughts on 36 vs 24 bit Bodosom.

The settings below will work for a shared HDMI input on the KRP. I am not sure if these will work correctly with the AE900, but with any luck it may auto-sync to the correct format.
Device Setting
KRP HDMI Input Signal Type Auto
PS3 Video Settings (BD) "Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr"
PS3 Display Settings(Games) RGB Full (0-255)
HR20-700 HDMI YCbCr (Locked)
AE900 HDMI Input Auto senses signal????


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post #328 of 7057 Old 07-20-2009, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Although short answers are preferable to long ones, the Xbox 360 resolution question in the FAQ is incomplete and not really correct.

I assume you didn't like the word "best".


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post #329 of 7057 Old 07-21-2009, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranalli View Post

I am a proud new owner of the KRP 500M. It's broken in - ISF Day / Night patched and running fine.

Congratulations!

Quote:
  • KRP 500M w 2 HDMI inputs

Don't forget that the DVI input on the KRP is the same as the two HDMI ports, except for the connector (and lack of audio if it matters). That gives you a third digital input if it helps.

I'm using the DVI port simply because I prefer to be able to screw the cable down.

Blue Jeans Cable can provide pretty much any of their HDMI cables as an HDMI<->DVI cable instead. You can also use an adapter but that adds more connections and could impact signal quality (if close to the limit already).

- LoopinFool
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post #330 of 7057 Old 07-21-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

When feeding a 1080/60p stream, this doesn't work. 3:2 pulldown is always done and there is no difference with the various Pure Cinema modes. IVTC with Advance and Smooth mode work just fine with 480p, 720p and 1080i content, everything else being equal. Is this by design or a bug?

The manual (p. 42) indicates that none of the PureCinema modes support 1080p60. So, it must be "by design".

Since it does 720p just fine, my guess is that the internal processor/memory just doesn't have the bandwidth to handle 1080p60.

- LoopinFool
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