The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 136 - AVS Forum
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post #4051 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatt200 View Post

Do you know for sure that he is heading to San Diego, or is that wishful thinking on htwaits' part?

I've been trying to find out. Someone posted that D-Nice would be working on their display in January and mentioned "The Bay Area" which to me means the San Francisco Bay Area. I've tried to contact D-Nice to confirm, but so far no luck.
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post #4052 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by p59teitel View Post

two weeks ago you posted that you had purchased a 500m and returned it because you didn't think it was any better than a panny v10. Here's your quote: "don't believe the hype. Tcp58v10 is the best plasma available today. People who say kuro's better have some special talent that us 'normal' folks don't have. They can probably even see dead people."

so what changed (again)?

+1. It's may be all subjective, but I've never owned a better display than my 600M!
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post #4053 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by p59teitel View Post

Two weeks ago you posted that you had purchased a 500M and returned it because you didn't think it was any better than a Panny V10. Here's your quote: "Don't believe the hype. TCP58V10 is the best plasma available today. People who say Kuro's better have some special talent that us 'normal' folks don't have. They can probably even see dead people."

So what changed (again)?

There was prob something wrong with my first one. Panny is bloody good, just bloody ubiquitous too. Some things, like mere brand recognition shouldn't factor into one's purchasing decision. Sucks to admit it, but maybe I'm just trying to outdo my buddies...
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post #4054 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ribkin View Post

There was prob something wrong with my first one. Panny is bloody good, just bloody ubiquitous too. Some things, like mere brand recognition shouldn't factor into one's purchasing decision. Sucks to admit it, but maybe I'm just trying to outdo my buddies...



That's refreshing, full blown honesty

Djoel
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post #4055 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I've been trying to find out. Someone posted that D-Nice would be working on their display in January and mentioned "The Bay Area" which to me means the San Francisco Bay Area. I've tried to contact D-Nice to confirm, but so far no luck.

Got an email from D-Nice today saying he will be in San Diego at the end of January. Looks like he would be able to swing by Orange County to calibrate dmatt200's unit and mine .
I'm sure he's been trying to finalize his trip up north so don't lose hope.
I assume he gets tons of emails daily so it might take a while for him to get back to everybody, so hang in there.

Eric
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post #4056 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Based on "programming" just one One (for the in-laws) I'm of the opinion they're hard to manage and of limited utility. I find the pro URCs (I like the MX-900) to be a reasonable compromise between expense and challenge of the RTI and weakness of the Harmony (which does have some clever bits). I very much dislike touch-screen units.

Im the other side... i love the harmony one for daily use. when i tweak settings i keep the stock remotes handy, but for everyday use, me and my GF never need more than the harmony One.
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post #4057 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I've been trying to find out. Someone posted that D-Nice would be working on their display in January and mentioned "The Bay Area" which to me means the San Francisco Bay Area. I've tried to contact D-Nice to confirm, but so far no luck.

I'm in Reno (about 3hrs from S.F.) and I contacted him about getting my 500M calibrated. He said he might be near here around February, and I'm pretty sure he's going to be in SoCal during January. Now I just have to find 8 people in the area that want their displays calibrated too so he can visit my neck of the woods. (HINT HINT to anyone in the Reno/Tahoe/Carson City area).

For those trying to contact him, contacting him through his e-mail address is better than a PM to his already flooded box.
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post #4058 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 05:52 PM
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Should I be worried about receiving a "gray market" version of the KRP-500M that I ordered from Central Digital? How can I check the serial numbers to verify that my set is definitely direct, and brand new from Pioneer?

It seems like Pioneer will never be bested
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post #4059 of 7037 Old 12-18-2009, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MICHAELSD View Post

Should I be worried about receiving a "gray market" version of the KRP-500M that I ordered from Central Digital? How can I check the serial numbers to verify that my set is definitely direct, and brand new from Pioneer?

Most of the time gray market stuff will have the serial number sticker removed, or the upc's cut out of the box. Basically, if it looks like it's been tampered with in any way, or has missing accessories, you should be very wary.
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post #4060 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by IronCamel View Post

Most of the time gray market stuff will have the serial number sticker removed, or the upc's cut out of the box. Basically, if it looks like it's been tampered with in any way, or has missing accessories, you should be very wary.

That sounds like black market.

A lot of Pioneer sales are gray to some extent (sold by unauthorized dealers, or authorized dealers selling outside their area), but Pioneer is just trying to close out these TVs and I'm not sure how concerned they are how they get moved.

So for instance, my TV was sold by a non-authorized dealer with no factory warranty, but all the serial numbers were in place with all the paperwork. I had no problems registering the TV with Pioneer, but if it came to a service call they could ask to see my sales receipt and deny coverage.
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post #4061 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 09:27 AM
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Does anyone know if the PDK-TS01 stand will work with the 500m?
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post #4062 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by scooner View Post

Does anyone know if the PDK-TS01 stand will work with the 500m?

The dimensions match. The PDK-TS01 appears to be equivalent to the PDK-TS23 (it mounts external to the panel).
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post #4063 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MICHAELSD View Post

Should I be worried about receiving a "gray market" version of the KRP-500M that I ordered from Central Digital?

Gray market implies some things that are unlikely to be applicable. While not impossible there's a vanishingly small likelihood that someone would import a non-North American KRP into this market. You can check the model number (on the box or on the top of the panel) -- it should be KRP-500M/KUCXC. If by gray market you mean the dealer is not authorized by Pioneer then, yes, that's almost certainly the case.
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post #4064 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 06:59 PM
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Questions for M owners

1) Has it been confirmed that the DVI input can be used as an HDMI input without any issues? Apart from the fact that you can't send your monitor any audio over the DVI...of course. iirc dvi and hdmi aren't identical video formats in terms of bits etc.

2) Is the lack of ISFccc only a concern gaining the DAY, NIGHT and AUTO settings? Or is ISFccc needed in order to improve calibration abilities with the M's? Approximately how much does the patch cost?

3) Has anybody compared the 600M and 141FD to any great extent? How close are they in pic quality b4 and after cal?
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post #4065 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Questions for M owners

1) Has it been confirmed that the DVI input can be used as an HDMI input without any issues? Apart from the fact that you can't send your monitor any audio over the DVI...of course. iirc dvi and hdmi aren't identical video formats in terms of bits etc.

I can't comment on this one...

2) Is the lack of ISFccc only a concern gaining the DAY, NIGHT and AUTO settings? Or is ISFccc needed in order to improve calibration abilities with the M's? Approximately how much does the patch cost?

the patch is needed to improve calibration abilities. Basically giving your M monitor the same functionality as the elites..... for around 100 bones

3) Has anybody compared the 600M and 141FD to any great extent? How close are they in pic quality b4 and after cal?

With the patch, the two are basically the same. No real differences beyond hand selected panels, factory break-in, elite badge and longer warranty on the 141
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post #4066 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Questions for M owners

1) Has it been confirmed that the DVI input can be used as an HDMI input without any issues? Apart from the fact that you can't send your monitor any audio over the DVI...of course. iirc dvi and hdmi aren't identical video formats in terms of bits etc.

DVI/HDCP is (backwards) compatible with HDMI 1.0. So there's no bandwidth for HD audio or Deep Color. Any compliant HDMI device will handshake down to DVI.
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post #4067 of 7037 Old 12-19-2009, 09:07 PM
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I'm awaiting delivery of a KRP-500M and was hoping one of you could help me out with a question.

I do not have a BR/DVD player at the moment and was hoping to use the D-Nice Evangelo2 Panel Aging settings.

My question is, if I use an hdmi cable instead of a dvi/d-sub will the KRP still automatically recognize the input as PC and therefore deprive me of control of settings such as color, tint and sharpness?
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post #4068 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Questions for M owners

1) Has it been confirmed that the DVI input can be used as an HDMI input without any issues? Apart from the fact that you can't send your monitor any audio over the DVI...of course. iirc dvi and hdmi aren't identical video formats in terms of bits etc.


I used the DVI input with the HDMI out on the xbox, no issues with video..

.
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post #4069 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ribkin View Post

..My question is, if I use an hdmi cable instead of a dvi/d-sub will the KRP still automatically recognize the input as PC and therefore deprive me of control of settings such as color, tint and sharpness?

It's not automatic. The KRP's Input settings allow you to choose between PC (limited Picture settings) and Video sources (full Picture settings). Assuming your PC can output video compatible resolutions and refresh rates, it shouldn't be a problem.
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post #4070 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:18 AM
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KRP-500M - A Little Underwhelmed

So I've had my KRP-500M running for a little over a month now. I ran it through D-Nice's break-in procedure and calibrated it using D-Nice's Pure settings. While I definitely think it's a nice picture, I'm not blown away like I thought I'd be. This is my first HDTV, so the only thing I can compare it to is my 32-inch 10-year old JVC tube. The blacks levels on my JVC are better than they are on the Kuro, and there's no comparison on SD content. I've had a couple of friends over, and not one of them commented about the picture quality or that it even looked good. To my annoyance, my wife tells me she thinks it doesn't look any better than our JVC. Given this, I've got some questions for everyone:

1) A lot of people mention that their black levels are so good that it blends into the bezel. Are you referring to day-time watching as well, because my blacks don't come anywhere near the color of the bezel? The blacks don't look any darker than the color of the panel when it's turned off, which is more of a dark gray.

2) If I was to purchase the ISF patch, will it be a significant improvement over Pure (with D-Nice's settings) beyond just light output?

3) Is the ISF patch still worth getting if I don't plan on having my panel professionally calibrated? Has anyone installed the patch and configured the ISF settings themselves?

Thanks.
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post #4071 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

KRP-500M - A Little Underwhelmed

So I've had my KRP-500M running for a little over a month now. I ran it through D-Nice's break-in procedure and calibrated it using D-Nice's Pure settings. While I definitely think it's a nice picture, I'm not blown away like I thought I'd be. This is my first HDTV, so the only thing I can compare it to is my 32-inch 10-year old JVC tube. The blacks levels on my JVC are better than they are on the Kuro, and there's no comparison on SD content. I've had a couple of friends over, and not one of them commented about the picture quality or that it even looked good. To my annoyance, my wife tells me she thinks it doesn't look any better than our JVC. Given this, I've got some questions for everyone:

1) A lot of people mention that their black levels are so good that it blends into the bezel. Are you referring to day-time watching as well, because my blacks don't come anywhere near the color of the bezel? The blacks don't look any darker than the color of the panel when it's turned off, which is more of a dark gray.

2) If I was to purchase the ISF patch, will it be a significant improvement over Pure (with D-Nice's settings) beyond just light output?

3) Is the ISF patch still worth getting if I don't plan on having my panel professionally calibrated? Has anyone installed the patch and configured the ISF settings themselves?

Thanks.

This should be fun. I will watch from the sideline.

- A lowly Panny S1 owner
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post #4072 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

KRP-500M - A Little Underwhelmed

So I've had my KRP-500M running for a little over a month now. I ran it through D-Nice's break-in procedure and calibrated it using D-Nice's Pure settings. While I definitely think it's a nice picture, I'm not blown away like I thought I'd be. This is my first HDTV, so the only thing I can compare it to is my 32-inch 10-year old JVC tube. The blacks levels on my JVC are better than they are on the Kuro, and there's no comparison on SD content. I've had a couple of friends over, and not one of them commented about the picture quality or that it even looked good. To my annoyance, my wife tells me she thinks it doesn't look any better than our JVC. Given this, I've got some questions for everyone:

1) A lot of people mention that their black levels are so good that it blends into the bezel. Are you referring to day-time watching as well, because my blacks don't come anywhere near the color of the bezel? The blacks don't look any darker than the color of the panel when it's turned off, which is more of a dark gray.

2) If I was to purchase the ISF patch, will it be a significant improvement over Pure (with D-Nice's settings) beyond just light output?

3) Is the ISF patch still worth getting if I don't plan on having my panel professionally calibrated? Has anyone installed the patch and configured the ISF settings themselves?

Thanks.


I always found Pioneer plasmas on the "flat" side, lacking the 3D look I get from my NEC and my 9UK Panny industrial plasma.

I still figured I would get one someday but the window is closing

bob

(standing behind Mark w/ asbestos suit )
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post #4073 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

KRP-500M - A Little Underwhelmed

So I've had my KRP-500M running for a little over a month now. I ran it through D-Nice's break-in procedure and calibrated it using D-Nice's Pure settings. While I definitely think it's a nice picture, I'm not blown away like I thought I'd be. This is my first HDTV, so the only thing I can compare it to is my 32-inch 10-year old JVC tube. The blacks levels on my JVC are better than they are on the Kuro, and there's no comparison on SD content. I've had a couple of friends over, and not one of them commented about the picture quality or that it even looked good. To my annoyance, my wife tells me she thinks it doesn't look any better than our JVC. Given this, I've got some questions for everyone:

1) A lot of people mention that their black levels are so good that it blends into the bezel. Are you referring to day-time watching as well, because my blacks don't come anywhere near the color of the bezel? The blacks don't look any darker than the color of the panel when it's turned off, which is more of a dark gray.

2) If I was to purchase the ISF patch, will it be a significant improvement over Pure (with D-Nice's settings) beyond just light output?

3) Is the ISF patch still worth getting if I don't plan on having my panel professionally calibrated? Has anyone installed the patch and configured the ISF settings themselves?

Thanks.

We would need more information about what you have connected to the display and how it is connected. The first thing that comes to mind is a colorspace mismatch somewhere in the mix.
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post #4074 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:52 AM
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You really need to be watching your 500M in a dark room to see that its black levels are significantly deeper than your old JVC.

Edit:
Perhaps your JVC crushes blacks at the expense of appearing to have deeper blacks than your 500M.
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post #4075 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

I always found Pioneer plasmas on the "flat" side, lacking the 3D look I get from my NEC and my 9UK Panny industrial plasma.

Perhaps you've never seen an ISF-calibrated 9G Kuro in a dim/dark room...?
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post #4076 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

1) A lot of people mention that their black levels are so good that it blends into the bezel. Are you referring to day-time watching as well, because my blacks don't come anywhere near the color of the bezel?

No, that's darkened room viewing with sufficient panel output or a bias light.

Quote:
The blacks don't look any darker than the color of the panel when it's turned off, which is more of a dark gray.

That's not right. If the panel is illuminated by external light it's quite obvious when it's powered up. Of course in a dark room you can't see the panel when it's off so you won't see the transition. In a dark room you will see the panel precharge glow when it's on and being feed only 0% stimulus (an all black screen) unless you have a bias (back) light.

Quote:
2) If I was to purchase the ISF patch, will it be a significant improvement over Pure (with D-Nice's settings) beyond just light output?

Some people say yes some say no. The full effect is certainly dependent on calibration (i.e. a meter and software, not just adjustments or copying some settings).

Quote:
3) Is the ISF patch still worth getting if I don't plan on having my panel professionally calibrated?

That depends on your viewing conditions and your desire for optimal quality.

Quote:
Has anyone installed the patch and configured the ISF settings themselves?

Sure, but it's not a substitute for calibration either professional or amateur.
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post #4077 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

It's not automatic. The KRP's Input settings allow you to choose between PC (limited Picture settings) and Video sources (full Picture settings). Assuming your PC can output video compatible resolutions and refresh rates, it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for clearing that up

Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneer manual View Post

In Video mode, the image is over-scanned (enlarged) but the panel automatically switches to PC when receiving
computer signals. In PC mode, the image displays in full size for optimum image quality.

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post #4078 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

KRP-500M - A Little Underwhelmed

So I've had my KRP-500M running for a little over a month now. I ran it through D-Nice's break-in procedure and calibrated it using D-Nice's Pure settings. While I definitely think it's a nice picture, I'm not blown away like I thought I'd be. This is my first HDTV, so the only thing I can compare it to is my 32-inch 10-year old JVC tube. The blacks levels on my JVC are better than they are on the Kuro, and there's no comparison on SD content.

A more general response --
Nothing short of OLED is going be as dark as a good CRT. Those are just the physics of displays. If you watch SD content on a 50" screen you should move back if you want it to look like a 32" CRT screen. Way back. If watching the Dark Knight or the Half Blood Prince in SD on your JVC and HD on your Kuro doesn't make the Kuro superiority obvious then something is wrong with your set-up.
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post #4079 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ribkin View Post

Thanks for clearing that up

Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneer manual
In Video mode, the image is over-scanned (enlarged) but the panel automatically switches to PC when receiving computer signals. In PC mode, the image displays in full size for optimum image quality.

That is an interesting quote from the manual, and it seems to say that a "non-video" format will cause the display to switch automatically. I have never tried switching a laptop to something incompatible (e.g., 1280/1024@75Hz) with Video mode to see if it automatically switched to PC mode, but I guess it's possible.

My experience is with 2 laptops - one is about 1 year old with Nvidia graphics, the other is about 3 years old with ATI graphics. I have connected them with a DVI-HDMI cable to HDMI2 and both laptops automatically switched to 1920x1080p/60 and the KRP stayed in Video mode and (IIRC) switched to dot-by-dot.
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post #4080 of 7037 Old 12-20-2009, 12:24 PM
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IamMark,

Broadcast SD will never look as good on a big flat-panel as it does on a CRT.

I have a $150 (when it was new) CRT still sitting around that trounces any plasma/LCD/DLP/etc that I've ever seen in terms of broadcast SD.

Solution: Stick to watching HD material or good-quality DVDs and make sure your 500M is set up properly.

If your blacks look gray under all conditions, chances are very high that you have a colorspace problem. This will also render the picture extremely flat and lifeless. Please list your source equipment and the manner in which it's connected.
tbird8450 is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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