The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 181 - AVS Forum
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post #5401 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If this is what you truly think is going on, then you are really clueless on the patch and what "changing model numbers" does. Good luck with your 600M as you have just voided your warranty by doing what you have done (yes it is recorded in a undocumented portion of your display's firmware).

Hey D-Nice - thanks for worrying about the warranty status of my tv set. I am sure flashing it with a modified version of its firmware would have done just the same.

But since you call me clueless about the patch, do want to clue me in and share some code?

I have no vested interested in any of this other then for the fact that I own a 600m and I like to know how things work. And since I found a way to enable ISF modes on my tv without patching it, I am posting my findings here. If anybody wants to do it, its at their own risk.. I'm sure ControlCal has a disclaimer like that too somewhere..
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post #5402 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

I just thought I'd let you guys know that a firmware patch is NOT required to enable ISF modes in the NA KRPs - I have done this on my 600M....After that, while still in the factory mode, you can enable ISF and then activate the ISF memories in the web interface..
To adjust the 9 point gamma, there are undocumented commands that need to be sent.
Also, I am pretty sure that ISF can be enabled over a LAN connection, so a serial cable is not needed either.

Just to be clear on the terminology. Using ISFccc modes on a North American KRP requires three steps:
  1. "Unlock" the capability (i.e. make the KRP like a non-North American KRP or Elite).
  2. Enable ISF (so called because the SM item is labeled enabled/disabled)
  3. Activate ISF modes (using the web page or via commands using e.g. ControlCAL)
So when you say "I am pretty sure that ISF can be enabled over a LAN connection" which step are you referring to?

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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

... since I found a way to enable ISF modes on my tv without patching it, I am posting my findings here.

The "findings" being you can unlock ISF without ControlCAL or something more specific?

Have you found a command that does page-up/page-down in the service menu?
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post #5403 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Just to be clear on the terminology. Using ISFccc modes on a North American KRP requires three steps:
  1. "Unlock" the capability (i.e. make the KRP like a non-North American KRP or Elite).
  2. Enable ISF (so called because the SM item is labeled enabled/disabled)
  3. Activate ISF modes (using the web page or via commands using e.g. ControlCAL)
So when you say "I am pretty sure that ISF can be enabled over a LAN connection" which step are you referring to?


The "findings" being you can unlock ISF without ControlCAL or something more specific?

Have you found a command that does page-up/page-down in the service menu?

I am referring to all 3 steps. I haven't automated the entire process yet (I used the tv's remote control for a part of it after going into factory mode) but I'd be surprised if that couldn't be done as well.. There are commands that do the same thing as what the remote does (those are documented)
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post #5404 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:42 PM
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The part he's ignoring is that ISF modes are normally enabled by an ISF certified tech and actually don't void warranty. The patch shouldn't void warranty if installed by an authorized tech in my understanding. Installing the patch on your own will, as will flashing a custom FW. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
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post #5405 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

I am referring to all 3 steps. ... There are commands that do the same thing as what the remote does (those are documented)

Please share the specifics of your process and if you have control commands that do page-up/page-down please let us know.
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post #5406 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Well let's just say that's not right.
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post #5407 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post

Pioneer speakers are occasionally available on ebay.... for my new KRP-500M I bot the 111FD side speakers SMW2025-a NIB for $143 all in shipped to me and have seen the 151FD side speakers SMW2026-a (to use on the 600M) for similar price).

Looking forward to following RichB's mounting instructions soon

Gman

I actually have the side speakers already. They're good, but I have some ridiculous bookshelves so I was going to trade the ability of having the sidespeakers for the ability to hookup to bookshelves. Now I have everything going to both. 4.1 stereo FTW. Plus, I can now hookup headphones so I don't disturb the neighbors.

I tried several line level adapters and none of them worked right. Beyond the ground loop I was getting, it was also making frequency gaps that weren't there before and chopping out the bass/top-end. So overall, I think unless you have a car level adapters are more hassle than they're worth. Once you're spending the money on a good quality level converter, you're getting into low-end receiver territory and could sell your current and upgrade to a higher end receiver if you really needed the hdmi audio decoding. Since I'm not using the consoles for movies, I don't really care.

BTW, those are great prices for the speakers. I think I paid $350 or so for mine, granted I don't know if they're identical or not.
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post #5408 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Well let's just say that's not right.

Can you clarify please? I don't mean to sound like an arse or something, but this is one of those things that I plan on doing/getting done down the road at some point if it doesn't void my warranty.
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post #5409 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

But since you call me clueless about the patch, do want to clue me in and share some code?

No.

Quote:


I have no vested interested in any of this other then for the fact that I own a 600m and I like to know how things work. And since I found a way to enable ISF modes on my tv without patching it, I am posting my findings here. If anybody wants to do it, its at their own risk.. I'm sure ControlCal has a disclaimer like that too somewhere..

You and anyone else are more than welcome to try your process. However, if you did what you did you voided your warranty. Anyone else who follows your procedure will also void their warranty based on the fact I pointed out.
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post #5410 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

I am sure flashing it with a modified version of its firmware would have done just the same.

And I am sure it does not.
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post #5411 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 02:16 PM
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So what voids the warranty vs. doesn't void the warranty on these? Is it that any patch or modification to the fw voids it, regardless of who installs it?
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post #5412 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

So what voids the warranty vs. doesn't void the warranty on these? Is it that any patch or modification to the fw voids it, regardless of who installs it?

I do not want to be a part of a warranty discussion. I've stated what I've based on what i know from Pioneer. The owner is free to do whatever they choose to do with their display. Just know the consequences.
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post #5413 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 03:15 PM
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That's what I'm asking. So are you indicating that anything beyond a calibration by a certified tech would be a gray area/potentially warranty voiding even if done by a certified tech? What I want to know is how much can definitely be done without voiding the warranty. I'm pretty happy with my set at present, but sometime down the line I'll probably either get the patch and/or have it calibrated, but what I do somewhat depends on what's allowed or not under warranty.
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post #5414 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

... sometime down the line I'll probably either get the patch and/or have it calibrated, but what I do somewhat depends on what's allowed or not under warranty.

I suggest you have that discussion with person providing the patch or doing the work. You're certainy not going to get Pioneer to sign off on unexpected/undocumented changes. What is obviously allowed is adjusting the controls documented in the operating manual although even in that case Pioneer seeks to avoid warranty repairs under some circumstances.
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post #5415 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

So are you indicating that anything beyond a calibration by a certified tech would be a gray area/potentially warranty voiding even if done by a certified tech?

That is not what I said in any of my posts.

Quote:


What I want to know is how much can definitely be done without voiding the warranty.

Use your set as is or get it patched via ControlCAL per yourself or a professional. Anything beyond that and you are own your own.
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post #5416 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

And I am sure it does not.

Well that depends on where this patch came from - if it was released by Pioneer then you are right, but otherwise I doubt it..
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post #5417 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

Well that depends on where this patch came from - if it was released by Pioneer then you are right, but otherwise I doubt it..

Doubt whatever you like. However, I can verify Turbe has some very high ranking contacts at Pioneer who provided him with the tools needed to create the patch (not some simplistic and public Service Manual). You, on the other hand, do not have any Pioneer contacts or internal Pioneer documentation on any Kuro and pretty much have hacked the firmware to do what you want it to do (limited use I might add).

I am happy for you that you have your ISFccc modes unlocked. If you want to tell others how to do it, go for it. If others want to use what you have done, more power to them. However, I do not recommend anyone follow your procedure (by the way, you are not the first to do what you have done) without knowing the consequences.


No one hear can claim they have not been warned.
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post #5418 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Doubt whatever you like. However, I can verify Turbe has some very high ranking contacts at Pioneer who provided him with the tools needed to create the patch (not some simplistic and public Service Manual). You, on the other hand, do not have any Pioneer contacts or internal Pioneer documentation on any Kuro and pretty much have hacked the firmware to do what you want it to do (limited use I might add).

I am happy for you that you have your ISFccc modes unlocked. If you want to tell others how to do it, go for it. If others want to use what you have done, more power to them. However, I do not recommend anyone follow your procedure (by the way, you are not the first to do what you have done) without knowing the consequences.


No one hear can claim they have not been warned.


You are not willing to get into a discussion about warranty even though you are the one who brought the topic up, you are not willing to give any technical details about the patch or what the difference is between it and what i have done, the only thing you can say is that your way is better.. There is nothing of substance here.. Can you prove that the patch does something different? How is my method of limited use as you say?
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post #5419 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

You are not willing to get into a discussion about warranty ...

Only a fool would.

It's something I've tried in the past, and regretted.

There always seem to be a very small but loud group of folks that enjoy attacking the few acknowledged experts who are still willing to post at AVS. Once in a great while the experts attack each other. I regret both activities.

I've got a double birthday party to attend today. Our youngest son is 40 and our daughter-in-law is 50. There's no time for more regrets.
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post #5420 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

the only thing you can say is that your way is better..

Better or the correct way without voiding your warranty? Nothing in my posts states "better". I suggest you re-read them for clarification.
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post #5421 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Only a fool would.

It's something I've tried in the past, and regretted.

There always seem to be a very small but loud group of folks that enjoy attacking the few acknowledged experts who are still willing to post at AVS. Once in a great while the experts attack each other. I regret both activities.

I've got a double birthday party to attend today. Our youngest son is 40 and our daughter-in-law is 50. There's no time for more regrets.

Enjoy the party. BTW I will be in your area 4/15-4/19. Let Guy know I have not forgotten about him
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post #5422 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 06:52 PM
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Better or the correct way without voiding your warranty? Nothing in my posts states "better". I suggest you re-read them for clarification.

you didn't say it explicitly but you did imply it..

ok lets break it down .. from your post -> "(limited use I might add). "

what do you mean by this? are you saying that some functionality is lacking? and if yes, what?
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post #5423 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

you didn't say it explicitly but you did imply it..

ok lets break it down .. from your post -> "(limited use I might add). "

what do you mean by this? are you saying that some functionality is lacking? and if yes, what?

Do you really believe I'm going to participate in your warranty voiding endeavor? Figure out what I said on your own.
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post #5424 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Only a fool would.

It's something I've tried in the past, and regretted.

There always seem to be a very small but loud group of folks that enjoy attacking the few acknowledged experts who are still willing to post at AVS. Once in a great while the experts attack each other. I regret both activities.

I've got a double birthday party to attend today. Our youngest son is 40 and our daughter-in-law is 50. There's no time for more regrets.

Are you saying that I have attacked someone? I only posted that I have unlocked ISF modes on my TV without using ControlCal and then D-Nice jumped in with the warranty claims..
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post #5425 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Do you really believe I'm going to participate in your warranty voiding endeavor? Figure out what I said on your own.

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post #5426 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:23 PM
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xsiv4ce, let it rest.
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post #5427 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post


When you figure it out, feel free to post your findings and procedure. If anyone wants to follow your procedure, they are more than welcome as long as they understand it will void their warranty. Good luck.
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post #5428 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

you didn't say it explicitly but you did imply it..

ok lets break it down .. from your post -> "(limited use I might add). "

what do you mean by this? are you saying that some functionality is lacking? and if yes, what?

D-Nice is a calibrator and since he's a professional it's part of his job not to discuss certain things that could potentially lead to a set not working properly. In addition to probably alienating some of his contacts, in our current culture some joker would fry their set and then sue him for telling them how to hack the service menu. You'll notice on all cell phone/electronics/etc... modding sites the posters are anonymous. Not so here. He's upfront about who he is and what he does and he doesn't have layers of internet cloud to hide behind.

He's done an enormous amount for the avs community and his answers can sometimes be a little circuitous, but part of that is that he tends to be a little guarded to avoid saying things that are taken out of context and to avoid people blaming him when they do something stupid or make a choice they're unhappy with.

Based on your postings, you seem to be the type who if you fried your set would then blame D-Nice for providing you information so it's completely understandable to me why he wouldn't want to do that.

And you really should reread both your and his posts again. D-Nice is almost never wrong and in this case he wasn't telling you that firmware hacking would not yield the results you want. He was indicating you can more easily get the same effect by having the patch applied should you choose to (although I'm still not clear on the warranty implications of getting the patch applied... it seems that it may be a touchy topic). The gist of what he's saying is that you paid a fair chunk of money for a plasma, there's already a relatively cheap way to get the same effect should you decide you want it and are aware of the implications of getting the patch applied, and you are much less likely to fry something by applying the patch.

If you want to go ahead and work on an alternative, more power to you. I'm a big fan of modding myself, but it's not a cheap tv, not easy to replace, and the risk of damaging it is significantly more than with other electronics. Also, be advised that there is often variation within a single product line, sometimes having actually different firmwares or firmware lines needed to run them. What works on your set may fry someone else's and what works on someone else's may fry yours. The patch is something that to my understanding is minimally intrusive and designed with a full understanding of how the sets normally work. I don't think you're likely to get any calibrators or other pros to divulge trade secrets about the workings of Pioneer displays over the internet, but if you search around for other people who've done similar to what you've done you may be able to find other people to work with if you have a mind to.
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post #5429 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:29 PM
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I actually have the side speakers already. They're good, but I have some ridiculous bookshelves so I was going to trade the ability of having the sidespeakers for the ability to hookup to bookshelves. Now I have everything going to both. 4.1 stereo FTW. Plus, I can now hookup headphones so I don't disturb the neighbors.

I tried several line level adapters and none of them worked right. Beyond the ground loop I was getting, it was also making frequency gaps that weren't there before and chopping out the bass/top-end. So overall, I think unless you have a car level adapters are more hassle than they're worth. Once you're spending the money on a good quality level converter, you're getting into low-end receiver territory and could sell your current and upgrade to a higher end receiver if you really needed the hdmi audio decoding. Since I'm not using the consoles for movies, I don't really care.

BTW, those are great prices for the speakers. I think I paid $350 or so for mine, granted I don't know if they're identical or not.

I did not get the S04s but the slightly thicker 2025-a and will need to add some teflon spacers and do a lil Dremeling on the lower brackets. Otherwise they should be identical in alll other aspects
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post #5430 of 7000 Old 03-27-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by xsiv4ce View Post

Are you saying that I have attacked someone? I only posted that I have unlocked ISF modes on my TV without using ControlCal and then D-Nice jumped in with the warranty claims..

In which case, what you should have just said was that you understand that flashing a different firmware is dangerous, that it voids your warranty, and has potential to completely fry your set. He was trying to warn you and others who might do the same of the danger involved. You proceeded to try and recruit him to your project. I understand the rational for trying to do so, but this is D-Nice we're talking about and you're not going to get that kind of information out of him. I do a lot of modding of my cheaper electronics, but it's rarely completely straightforward, usually has little margin for error, and something that I rarely recommend anyone else does unless it's progressed far enough to be reliable. What you're talking about has only been done hack-n-slash so far and beyond voiding the warranty, is too unproven to be useful to most people here who spend several thou on this plasma and don't want to brick it.
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