The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 187 - AVS Forum
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post #5581 of 7057 Old 04-16-2010, 11:07 PM
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He probably means when it will create artificial lines instead of "adding".
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post #5582 of 7057 Old 04-19-2010, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

My 500M was calibrated by D-Nice in day, night, auto and pure and I have been extremely happy with the results. The ISF auto seems to work well, but the night is what I usually use sine 90% of my viewing is at night and I love the pq it provides. I have found that the day setting is very good for sports, provides more pop, the Masters was awesome with day.

I think D-Nice can choose how bright to make your day setting, mine is 56ft/l, which really adds some pop for brighter conditions. I am interested to hear an after action report!

i use a middle of the road contrast setting at 32 for day and night viewing. at night though my eyes start to squint a little though. text does not look as clean as it should and i think the vibrance is making my eyes loose some of the subtle detail in the image. i dont see how you guys do it at a higher contrast. the whites tend to glow at night in an unnatural fashion. i think im going to bump this down for night viewing finally and see where it goes.
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post #5583 of 7057 Old 04-19-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dong99 View Post

Hello Guys,

Since some of you had asked for my KRP500m's calibration results, here they are. An EyeOne LT sensor was used, and I am very happy with the results.

dong99--

Would you be able to repost your graphs, especially for gamma? They're not visible in your earlier post (I tried Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer, and Chrome).

I've also been using the User mode for the past year, which I calibrated with an EyeOne LT. I haven't felt the need to patch my 500M to enable ISF modes, since I've been happy with my results, but now that there's a free workaround, I've been playing with it a bit.

I'm finding that the maximum brightness is the same for User and ISF-Day. Unlike you, I'm not seeing any real improvement in my gamma curve, although I haven't spent a lot of time trying to calibrate it.

I've always wondered if there's an issue with either my EyeOne or the HCFR software I'm using, since my gamma curves always look screwy. It would be good to see yours for comparison.

Thanks.

edit:
OK, with more effort, my gamma curve is improved (and better than with User mode), but perfection is certainly elusive...

--Eric
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post #5584 of 7057 Old 04-19-2010, 08:38 PM
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Well, here are my curves for ISF-Day, calibrated with my EyeOne LT. My gamma curve is at least [mostly] flat, although lower than it should be:






--Eric
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post #5585 of 7057 Old 04-19-2010, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelton View Post

Well, here are my curves for ISF-Day, calibrated with my EyeOne LT. My gamma curve is at least [mostly] flat, although lower than it should be:

What 9 point gamma settings are you using? RGB gamma -1 ("4" in KuroControl) should get you somewhere in the 2.2x neighborhood.


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post #5586 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

What 9 point gamma settings are you using? RGB gamma -1 ("4" in KuroControl) should get you somewhere in the 2.2x neighborhood.

From KuroReader:

Gamma : 3 (ISF 9 Point Gamma in use)

ISF Gamma 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Red : -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -2
Green : -1 -2 -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -2
Blue : -1 -2 -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3


I've always had low gamma levels, which is why I've thought there might be something amiss with my readings.

--Eric
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post #5587 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelton View Post

From KuroReader:

Gamma : 3 (ISF 9 Point Gamma in use)

ISF Gamma 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Red : -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -2
Green : -1 -2 -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -2
Blue : -1 -2 -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3


I've always had low gamma levels, which is why I've thought there might be something amiss with my readings.

I see that we went through this (low gamma) in the old thread last year. Are you using the Series 3 Tivo to generate patterns or something else?


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post #5588 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

I see that we went through this (low gamma) in the old thread last year. Are you using the Series 3 Tivo to generate patterns or something else?

Yep, deja vu all over again. And yes, I'm using the same series 3 TiVo.

--Eric
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post #5589 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eelton View Post

Yep, deja vu all over again. And yes, I'm using the same series 3 TiVo.

Well, you aren't complaining about PQ, so I assume it is a measurement issue. It might be interesting to see if you get similar results using HCFRs pattern generator (view images) .


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post #5590 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Well, you aren't complaining about PQ, so I assume it is a measurement issue. It might be interesting to see if you get similar results using HCFRs pattern generator (view images) .

I had actually forgotten that the TiVo may be an issue. I don't have an HDMI output on my computer to use HCFR's patterns, at least not on the same input. I may try burning a DVD of some test patterns, but my DVD player is on a component input, so that won't be a controlled experiment either.

As you say, the PQ seems fine, so I'm not going to sweat this too much; I just find it curious. Thanks for your input.

--Eric
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post #5591 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 10:17 AM
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Quote:


I mounted a pair of 111 speakers on my 500M. - post #416 , old thread

They do not fit out of the box. They are too far forward and the brackets do not match up.

To mount them I needed:

4 M5x16 bolts to screw into the plasma
4 1/4 inch nylon standoffs
4 washers to get a yunt more to make the speaker flush.

The top bracket can be left alone and the bottom bracket needs the hole expanded about 1/4 inch. We used a Dremel and a carbide bit. It was not hard. If you make the top flush, the bottom speakers are just a hair short. This seems to be as designed. My Friends 151 speakers do are just a bit short too.

Images:
PioScrews - Shows the parts and the black original screw.
BottomRightBracket - shows the original right bracket.
BottomLeftOverBottomRight - shows the right altered bracket with the unaltered left.
TopLeft - shows the top of the left speaker mounted.
BottomLeft - shows the bottom left speaker mounted.
FullView - is the finished product.
LINK to Images here

Of course, you could Dremel out the top a yunt to split the difference.
But I think they look great.

So how do they sound. Just fine!
I turned them up louder than I ever would - no problem.

-RichB

Thank you RichB for posting such a detailed step by step proceedure !!!

I purchased a Dremil and the carbide tungsten bit at Home Depot. Grinding was easy once the bracket was securly fastened to something.

Could not find the 1/4 inch thick nylon spacers so I used 4 1" diameter wide 1/4" aluminum washers + the 1/4" nylon washer to achieve flushness (played around a little to get it correct).

Mounting was way easy.

My 500M has now a gorgeous looking pair of bought on ebay 111FD side speakers, which IMHO look flush at the top and at the bottom as well

Sound quality and max volume also perfect.

Thank you again,

Gman
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post #5592 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 10:39 AM
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What are your thoughts on using DRE once you have the set roughly calibrated? It seems to add a bit more pop to the image, but I'm not sure what else it's doing besides expanding the color gamut and increasing the contrast.
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post #5593 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

What are your thoughts on using DRE once you have the set roughly calibrated? It seems to add a bit more pop to the image, but I'm not sure what else it's doing besides expanding the color gamut and increasing the contrast.

I didn't know that DRE expanded the color gamut.
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post #5594 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

What are your thoughts on using DRE once you have the set roughly calibrated? It seems to add a bit more pop to the image, but I'm not sure what else it's doing besides expanding the color gamut and increasing the contrast.

I can tell you that it alters the gamma, making my flat curve change to downsloping. My gamma plots already have issues, though...

I suppose that means it's a less accurate image, but you have to decide whether it looks better to you.



with DRE off:



with DRE mid:


--Eric
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post #5595 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 11:49 AM
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The D in DRE stands for dynamic. Static images do not fully reveal what happens when DRE is enabled. An A/B comparison on a complex image shows the gamma shift for that image but having it on during moving images (moving images are the primary purpose of a video display after all) produces artifacts that distress some viewers.


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post #5596 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

I didn't know that DRE expanded the color gamut.

Quote:
The Dynamic Range Expander (or DRE) continuously enhances the full spectrum of colour tones by making a real-time analysis of complete video frames.

To accomplish this, several technologies work together, including:
Dynamic Range Correction that adjusts video dynamically by expanding distribution of the unused histogram
Peak Automatic Contrast Limiter: which checks peak level of the total image, adjusting the contrast scale accordingly. The enhanced peak brightness reproduces shining pictures.
Black Level Expansion: which reproduces better black level contrast by displaying the finest gradation when expanding black levels.
And finally, the Shade Rendering Engine, which automatically optimises the contrast of the shaded image.

Sorry I think I misread it. It's just the histogram it's tweaking, not the whole image.

From the way it sounds, it's adjusting the contrast (and possibly gamma) on the fly? When I enabled it before it looked pretty terrible. In ISF mode it seems to make the image noticably more detailed, but it also heightens any noise in the image. Well-filmed and mastered content seems to look better with more "true" lighting in bright scenes. For anything that's not filmed perfectly though, it optimizes the noise as well so it stands out more. It seems to make the light harder.

Since the gamma curve in ISF starts more accurate though, I notice that it seems to emphasize details that Pure didn't even pick up with DRE off.
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post #5597 of 7057 Old 04-20-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The D in DRE stands for dynamic. Static images do not fully reveal what happens when DRE is enabled. An A/B comparison on a complex image shows the gamma shift for that image but having it on during moving images (moving images are the primary purpose of a video display after all) produces artifacts that distress some viewers.

Yes, that is my primary complaint with it. It doesn't seem to actually introduce any artifacts, but artifacts in the signal or caused by other features get dramatically emphasized the higher you go (for instance the difference between enhancer hard and soft). I also notice though that ISF seems to have more artifacts in some scenes than Pure had (most notably in dark scenes) and I haven't exactly been able to figure out why that is (though the grayscale is much better).
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post #5598 of 7057 Old 04-24-2010, 11:05 AM
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Using ISF day/night, I would like to change the H-position and V-position of the screen, but it will not let me. Any ideas? Thanks

*ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY - PIONEER KRP-500M* 
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post #5599 of 7057 Old 04-24-2010, 12:13 PM
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Why? if the v or h is off it either means you need adjustment at the source since it's not sending a proper signal or you have orbiter on which creates thin black borders around the picture that it shifts it inside. If it's because of orbiter, I don't recommend turning it off.
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post #5600 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Why? if the v or h is off it either means you need adjustment at the source since it's not sending a proper signal or you have orbiter on which creates thin black borders around the picture that it shifts it inside. If it's because of orbiter, I don't recommend turning it off.

Its my problem because I wanted the picture perfectly centered. Fine the way it is. Just thought there was an easy solution. Thanks

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post #5601 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 08:41 AM
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Just wanted to post results from my calibration done be D-Nice. Let me say it was a truly great experience. All the praise that has been stated in regard to Mr. Nice's abilities are not overstated.

After a little scheduling delays of which Mr. D-Nice keep my posted, he arrived around 6:30pm yesterday. After taking a look over my setup and checking setting in my dvdo edge he began to set up his equipment. He explained the order of steps he would performing. First take a reading of my current setup, install patch, and calibrate isf modes and pure mode (which I chose after a brief discussion). After setup he took a reading of my monitor as I have been using (pure mode with modified settings posted be Elite-home). As you can see in the attached pre report the gamma was flat, colors were pretty close, and my grayscale was off (too much blue and not enough red)

Next he installed patch and began calibration, I asked a few questions as he was working but mostly observed seated so I could see his laptop as he worked. It was amazing watching him dial in my display. I would quietly observe as he would take a reading and I could see the rgb bars appear, I remember several times thinking take looks pretty close, not perfect but very close on a reading, he would still make adjustments until it was perfect or as close as possible. He truly has a passion for his work and tries to get your display as close to perfect as possible.

After he finished calibrating, he reviewed and explained the charts. I still am amazed at the results. Next we popped in Avatar and I was floored by the clarity and detail. I thanked Mr. Nice and he was off to Va Beach area for another calibration.

Let me say to everyone, Avatar played through a Oppo 83 displayed on a D-Nice calibrated 600M is a close to video perfection I have witnessed in my life.

I will conclude with answers to the most asked questions, can I tell a difference and was it worth it? I can answer both with a absolute YES! If anyone has any specific questions I will try to answer.

If you are planning to get your display calibrated I truly believe that you will not find a better person than D-Nice. I highly recommend him. I wish to thank Mr. D-Nice and I will enjoy my "near perfect" display for a long time.

Thanks,
Barry

 

KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Day)-1.pdf 153.4853515625k . file

 

KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (Pure).pdf 153.0869140625k . file

 

KRP-600M Pre Calibration Report (Pure).pdf 156.5927734375k . file

 

KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Night).pdf 153.9853515625k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Night).pdf (154.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf KRP-600M Pre Calibration Report (Pure).pdf (156.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: pdf KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (Pure).pdf (153.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: pdf KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Day)-1.pdf (153.5 KB, 10 views)
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post #5602 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 09:45 AM
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Wow great report...Glad you are happy with your results, I believe I'm ready to get my unit professionally calibrate..And soon..

DJoel


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post #5603 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Wow great report...Glad you are happy with your results, I believe I'm ready to get my unit professionally calibrate..And soon..

DJoel

If you can work it out I would highly recommend D-Nice. I know you will be glad you did.

Barry
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post #5604 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

Just wanted to post results from my calibration done be D-Nice.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Calibration Resources:

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post #5605 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 02:33 PM
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could you please help with this issue.

I have a Pioneer KRP-600m display connected directly to a Pioneer bdp-51fd blu ray player via hdmi and playing the AVSHD 709 disc with the pattern to set brightness ( shows digital 1 to 25 ramp ). Irrespective of how high i go on brightness i can't show below digital 16. how do i set up the display and blu ray player to show below digital 16 so that i can accurately set the brightness control.
thanks.
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post #5606 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Wow great report...Glad you are happy with your results, I believe I'm ready to get my unit professionally calibrate..And soon..

DJoel

I will be in NYC 5/7 - 5/9


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post #5607 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 06:13 PM
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It was my pleasure. Enjoy your display
Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

Just wanted to post results from my calibration done be D-Nice. Let me say it was a truly great experience. All the praise that has been stated in regard to Mr. Nice's abilities are not overstated.

After a little scheduling delays of which Mr. D-Nice keep my posted, he arrived around 6:30pm yesterday. After taking a look over my setup and checking setting in my dvdo edge he began to set up his equipment. He explained the order of steps he would performing. First take a reading of my current setup, install patch, and calibrate isf modes and pure mode (which I chose after a brief discussion). After setup he took a reading of my monitor as I have been using (pure mode with modified settings posted be Elite-home). As you can see in the attached pre report the gamma was flat, colors were pretty close, and my grayscale was off (too much blue and not enough red)

Next he installed patch and began calibration, I asked a few questions as he was working but mostly observed seated so I could see his laptop as he worked. It was amazing watching him dial in my display. I would quietly observe as he would take a reading and I could see the rgb bars appear, I remember several times thinking take looks pretty close, not perfect but very close on a reading, he would still make adjustments until it was perfect or as close as possible. He truly has a passion for his work and tries to get your display as close to perfect as possible.

After he finished calibrating, he reviewed and explained the charts. I still am amazed at the results. Next we popped in Avatar and I was floored by the clarity and detail. I thanked Mr. Nice and he was off to Va Beach area for another calibration.

Let me say to everyone, Avatar played through a Oppo 83 displayed on a D-Nice calibrated 600M is a close to video perfection I have witnessed in my life.

I will conclude with answers to the most asked questions, can I tell a difference and was it worth it? I can answer both with a absolute YES! If anyone has any specific questions I will try to answer.

If you are planning to get your display calibrated I truly believe that you will not find a better person than D-Nice. I highly recommend him. I wish to thank Mr. D-Nice and I will enjoy my "near perfect" display for a long time.

Thanks,
Barry



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post #5608 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umass66 View Post

Irrespective of how high i go on brightness i can't show below digital 16.

See the following articles at the Spears & Munsil website:
pattern tech notes (this is useful background material) and setting brightness.

The HCFR near-black patterns on the AVSHD disc are useful for adjusting brightness on panels that clip to consumer electronics video levels.


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post #5609 of 7057 Old 04-25-2010, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I will be in NYC 5/7 - 5/9


Fantastic..I'll send you my info via email..


Dan


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post #5610 of 7057 Old 04-26-2010, 09:06 PM
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Justed wanted to start off by saying WOW!! If you have any doubts in getting your 500 or 600M calibrated by D-Nice...read this post! I've had my 600M for about 7 months now. I've had other Pioneer/Elite displays in the past...but nothing like this set. Like alot of other people on this forum, I tried to calibrate this set myself using calMAN and the i1 display2. I had came up with results I thought were good but not great. Then I searched the forum found some pure mode setting's and copied them. Still not satisfied...e-mailed Turbe(Thank You btw)and downloaded the isf patch. Once the patch was complete, I copied in some of D-nice's setting's from someone else's calibration. I left it like that for two month's and then finally decided to make the call to the famous D-nice. By far one the best decision i've ever made !! Just look at my grayscale in my pre compared to my post calibaration...say's it all! This is a perfect reason to GET YOUR SET CALIBRATED AND NOT COPY OTHER PEOPLES SETTING'S. D-Nice was very professional, explained everything he was doing, and tweeked my display to prefection. After he was done...he popped in Avatar...Breathtaking !! As a matter of fact...later on that night I went and purchased Avatar. Watched the entire movie with some friends and as there jaws dropped when they saw the picture...I new that getting my set calibrated was a good investment and was well worth the Money !! I felt like I wanted to rewatch all my blu rays, like I was missing out on something ! LOL... Can't say it enough...Just wanted to say thanks again to D-Nice for the calibration, Turbe for the isf patch, and for making it possible to watch this display in the way it was intended to be watched.

Thank You,
Mascior

 

Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Pre Calibration Report (ISF-Day).pdf 157.06640625k . file

 

Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Day).pdf 153.068359375k . file

 

Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Night).pdf 153.4658203125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Night).pdf (153.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: pdf Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Post Calibration Report (ISF-Day).pdf (153.1 KB, 18 views)
File Type: pdf Ryan Masciola's KRP-600M Pre Calibration Report (ISF-Day).pdf (157.1 KB, 11 views)


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