The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 02:59 PM
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One last note about plasma reflections...

I just had the opportunity to have a LG LH90 LED in my main living room where I usually have my plasma. Despite having a semi-matte screen (which is just about all you'll find on LCD's these days...regular matte screens seem to have vanished) the glare on the TV was very, very noticeable. Especially on dark content.

I greatly prefer the AR coating on my Elite compared to a LCD screen, and I suspect I would feel the same way if it was a Samsung or Panasonic plasma as well. I may see a reflection or two on my 111 during the day, but it beats having an enormous, glaring smudge of sunlight obscuring your content.
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post #1172 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post

I have not seen much written here regarding owners having their 500M professionally calibrated. So, (1) I would assume most calibrators are up to speed on doing this for the 500? (2)Has anyone here had theirs calibrated or are you installing the ISF Patch and making the adjustments yourself?(3) Does professional calibration afford better integration of components for the HT as opposed to just improving picture quality of the display?
(I apologize if I'm asking redundant questions. My thread search skills are decidedly inept)

If you look at the previous postings you will see several 500's and 600's have been calibrated and D-Nice worked his hands on my 500, 600, 5020 and a previous 111fd so I guess the best way to explain the benefits of a pro-calibration is that if you have the inkling to squeeze the panel for the best picture you can- then by all means you need to look into this service. I have never seen a dissension based remark by anyone who has had a calibration which bodes well for the benefits of them. We will show the differences in panels that are and are not calibrated when we do our review.

I do however believe if you are going to work with a pro calibrator they should be knowledgeable enough in all of the component settings to lead you down the right path... components can play not as much an important part in enhancing the quality of a Kuro but can absolutely deter the picture quality before it gets to the panel so you need to make sure your source line is not clipping and or manipulating the information it is being asked to transport.
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post #1173 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I've been reading through this thread from the start in my spare time, and when you first got the 600M you said that the panel was darkest in the center of the screen and that D-Nice said this would even-out after 800 hours. Did it?

Yes, I would agree the panel's inkiness of blacks has spread throughout the panel screen, the bezel and the black of the letterbox is not as noticeably lighter as in the past in bright scenes. I tend to spend 80-85% of my time with my family watching the 600m and I could not be happier with it and out of all of my panels this is the one I am most addicted to, size does matter.
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post #1174 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- View Post

Does this not bother anyone? I don't understand why its no mentioned at all by anyone actually. What gives?

Because all direct view displays have an on look and an off look. My Kuro is dark gray when off, light gray when starting and black when it's ready.

The LCD panel in my phone behaves similarly although it doesn't have a an on but no-video state.
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post #1175 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panlop View Post

The RS232 PDF for my KRP-500M on Pioneer's website seems to omit a bunch of control codes including power on/standby ... Does anyone have a more complete reference they could direct me to?

A reasonably complete command list (including pon and pof) can be found in the integrator's manual. There's a link in the FAQ.
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post #1176 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

Yes, I would agree the panel's inkiness of blacks has spread throughout the panel screen, the bezel and the black of the letterbox is not as noticeably lighter as in the past in bright scenes. I tend to spend 80-85% of my time with my family watching the 600m and I could not be happier with it and out of all of my panels this is the one I am most addicted to, size does matter.

Good to hear. I sit 13 feet from my TV, so nothing smaller than 58" will do.

I'd like to go even bigger, but no room between the speakers.
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post #1177 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 04:31 PM
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I input the settings that were listed by elite-home and pbjunior2. Everything looks great, but I have a quick question.

Is it strange that I prefer "standard" over "pure"? I ask this because I see that most people who aren't using isf settings seem to use "pure", but "standard" looks nicer to me, much in part I think because it seems brighter.
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post #1178 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

A reasonably complete command list (including pon and pof) can be found in the integrator's manual. There's a link in the FAQ.

That PDF has everything I've been searching for. Thanks bodosom.
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post #1179 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Good to hear. I sit 13 feet from my TV, so nothing smaller than 58" will do.

I'd like to go even bigger, but no room between the speakers.

I also have my seating about 13-14 ft from panel, you would be pleased with this panel as most people have been... though the 500 may be better in all around pic and blacks the 600 is no slouch in either regard.
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post #1180 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megasabin View Post

I input the settings that were listed by elite-home and pbjunior2. Everything looks great, but I have a quick question.

Is it strange that I prefer "standard" over "pure"? I ask this because I see that most people who aren't using isf settings seem to use "pure", but "standard" looks nicer to me, much in part I think because it seems brighter.

I thought the same when D-Nice calibrated my panels, even went as far to say the 5020 was brighter and more vivid (though inaccurate). After a week or so of watching the pure setting you won't want to change and will notice things that were not apparent previously while watching standard, it just takes a little time for the eyes and the brain to agree on something I guess
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post #1181 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Because all direct view displays have an on look and an off look. My Kuro is dark gray when off, light gray when starting and black when it's ready.

The LCD panel in my phone behaves similarly although it doesn't have a an on but no-video state.

I was of course referring exclusively to the on look, if I cared about how black the screen looked when off I wouldn't have gotten rid of my LCD so fast.
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post #1182 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

I also have my seating about 13-14 ft from panel, you would be pleased with this panel as most people have been... though the 500 may be better in all around pic and blacks the 600 is no slouch in either regard.

I'm sure that the 600M will be better than the 720P 58" Panny that it is replacing.
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post #1183 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

Just spoke w/ D-Nice on the bat phone and he is in for the Great Pio Review 2009, though we need to adjust the time frame to October to suit his schedule- he has to go cheer the Red Sox past the Yanks and visit the Boston crew first.

We spoke about the purpose of this and let me clarify myself, we are doing this simply to identify any and all questions and concerns the forum has had and has about the differences in pq quality and overall quality for each and every panel available.

We are going to show values of having calibrations, borrowing calibration setting on a non-calibrated panel, and upgrading to ISF and PISF (500/600) in comparison for both before and after. We are looking for anything you guys think would be prudent in comparison. We will show differences in settings with low end a/v gear and higher end a/v gear in comparison. I will get my hands on a DVDO Edge prior to to show the differences available... anything else you guys would like to see?

YES, An Oppo or Pio BDP-51 vs. the PS3 in Blu-ray quality.
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post #1184 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by teknikk7 View Post

YES, An Oppo or Pio BDP-51 vs. the PS3 in Blu-ray quality.

Maybe the new LG BD player also?
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post #1185 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- View Post

I was of course referring exclusively to the on look, if I cared about how black the screen looked when off I wouldn't have gotten rid of my LCD so fast.

Well I can't explain what you're seeing then. No one else has mentioned this defect because they don't see anything worth mentioning.
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post #1186 of 7000 Old 08-23-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Well I can't explain what you're seeing then. No one else has mentioned this defect because they don't see anything worth mentioning.

Maybe the amount of and the types of light in the store I was in somehow exaggerates the effect. Though I made a note of the lighting and it did not strike me as being overly lit in there. All I can say is I am not imagining it, if you go back a page or two you'll see there is a perfectly valid explanation for what is causing it. To my eyes in the store it lowered the PQ of both a Kuro and a Panasonic Plasma to such abysmal levels so as to scare me off purchasing Plasma.

Perhaps critical Plasma owners mostly care about the dark room performance of their Plasma or maybe the amount of ambient light in a normal house environment does not affect the blacks in the same way, who knows. All I know is living in Canada getting a 600M from across the border is a one way ticket and so I am not willing to risk finding out.

By the way after a quick glance in the Kuro picture thread I found two examples that show what I was seeing, look at the third and forth picture from bottom in this post.
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post #1187 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- View Post

Maybe the amount of and the types of light in the store I was in somehow exaggerates the effect. Though I made a note of the lighting and it did not strike me as being overly lit in there. All I can say is I am not imagining it, if you go back a page or two you'll see there is a perfectly valid explanation for what is causing it. To my eyes in the store it lowered the PQ of both a Kuro and a Panasonic Plasma to such abysmal levels so as to scare me off purchasing Plasma.

Perhaps critical Plasma owners mostly care about the dark room performance of their Plasma or maybe the amount of ambient light in a normal house environment does not affect the blacks in the same way, who knows. All I know is living in Canada getting a 600M from across the border is a one way ticket and so I am not willing to risk finding out.

By the way after a quick glance in the Kuro picture thread I found two examples that show what I was seeing, look at the third and forth picture from bottom in this post.

It's the ambient light. I have a window practically next to a 600m.
Unless the curtain is shut, the blacks look like a gray murky mess.
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post #1188 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 04:06 AM
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My TV has never looked like those two pictures in that post. Then again, the xx20s do not have as strong of an AR filter as the Elites/Ms do.

As I said in the other thread, my perception of black on the 500M improves with ambient light. As long as you don't have significant lighting directly in front of the screen you'd likely be fine. It's all about positioning.
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post #1189 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elite-home View Post

I thought the same when D-Nice calibrated my panels, even went as far to say the 5020 was brighter and more vivid (though inaccurate). After a week or so of watching the pure setting you won't want to change and will notice things that were not apparent previously while watching standard, it just takes a little time for the eyes and the brain to agree on something I guess

that is exactly how i felt when i first changed. it just takes a bit of time to get used to. i am so anxiously awaiting my ISF patch now though cause i want to see the beast that is ISF Day. hope i dont have my hopes too high this time cause i dont want to be disappointed.
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post #1190 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikk7 View Post

YES, An Oppo or Pio BDP-51 vs. the PS3 in Blu-ray quality.

this is definitely one i REALLY want to see but you guys can use this post as reference just for now.
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post #1191 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 06:54 AM
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Quick question, my 500M is mounted 3 feet off the floor (the bottom part of the panel to the floor). I have a Logitech Z-5500 subwoofer that is not shielded.

Can I place it right under the 500M? Will the magnets affect the set?

Thanks.
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post #1192 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 07:28 AM
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I just want to confirm before getting my set today - if I plan to calibrate (DIY with Eye One LT) my 600M and do not want to use the D-Nice reference settings, there is NO point in using the 150 hour break-in procedure. Correct? I want to make sure it's not intended to reduce the effects of IR/burn-in.

Also, anyone have a link to an inspection checklist for delivery (e.g. check screen with flashlight at angle, turn on, etc)?

Thanks
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post #1193 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 07:53 AM
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Has Pioneer changed their warranty policies on the KRP? I know they have often stressed buying only from authorized internet dealers and will not honor purchases made from other online vendors or ebay.

Oddly, while checking ebay for KRP stands in the past few weeks, I have noticed one or two "authorized" internet vendors selling 500M's there. That's a little strange. Or do the old rules still apply regarding internet purchases and warranties since Pio's plasma display business is closing up shop?
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post #1194 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Campbell View Post

I want to make sure it's not intended to reduce the effects of IR/burn-in.

If you're talking about the D-Nice break-in process then you should carefully read the relevant post since it contains the facts of record. Anything not posted by D-Nice about his process is the poster's opinion.
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post #1195 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

My TV has never looked like those two pictures in that post. Then again, the xx20s do not have as strong of an AR filter as the Elites/Ms do.

As I said in the other thread, my perception of black on the 500M improves with ambient light. As long as you don't have significant lighting directly in front of the screen you'd likely be fine. It's all about positioning.


Same here, during the day the blacks still look very much black on my 500M and it's sitting near my patio. If I placed a light directly at the screen then it would look gray but in normal day viewing conditions, it's black thanks to the filter.
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post #1196 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

that is exactly how i felt when i first changed. it just takes a bit of time to get used to. i am so anxiously awaiting my ISF patch now though cause i want to see the beast that is ISF Day. hope i dont have my hopes too high this time cause i dont want to be disappointed.


Don't get your hopes up too high. ISF Day looks nice but it's only a step above pure, it doesn't have the punch of standard mode. I've been working on getting standard mode as accurate as possible and prefer it over ISF day lately.
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post #1197 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150Joker View Post

it doesn't have the punch of standard mode.

What gamma setting are you using in Standard? Most are inaccurate as the gamma curve can look like a Z or S. Those Z and S curves can "appear" to add more punch, however, you are losing picture detail with those types of curves.
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post #1198 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150Joker View Post

Don't get your hopes up too high. ISF Day looks nice but it's only a step above pure, it doesn't have the punch of standard mode. I've been working on getting standard mode as accurate as possible and prefer it over ISF day lately.

i,personally, am starting to see what the specialists like D-Nice and the likes are saying about picture detail and accuracy. I know you like a lot of punch with your pictures and i do too but IMHO,right now, i tend to prefer the more "realistic" feel that Pure gives me. Standard would definitely blow away anyone lehman person who comes to watch your unit because of the "vibrancy" of the picture but when i compared it to Pure, it definitely has too much processing going on and loses some detail. Remember i told you how much i loved playing games on Standard, that now has even changed to Pure. Even my 12 yr old brother, was playing Infamous on my PS3 using the Standard mode and when i went and switched it to Pure, his initial reaction was "WOA, that looks so much better!" i was definitely blown away when he said that because as an average person i thought he might have preferred Standard but he didnt. when i receive my Eye One, i will definitely play around with the modes and see how i like them but i know from how Pure shows currently that ISF day should really please me more. Seems like the more i use the panel the better it shows, so i am hoping when i hit the 700-800 hr mark that it definitely settles in and gives off a beautiful picture.

BTW, noone who has seen my set has not told me anything about how good it shows, which only goes to show that people here in Barbados care nothing more than simply "watching" a TV. even my friend who is a bit into it was not amazed by it.
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post #1199 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Management View Post

Quick question, my 500M is mounted 3 feet off the floor (the bottom part of the panel to the floor). I have a Logitech Z-5500 subwoofer that is not shielded.

Can I place it right under the 500M? Will the magnets affect the set?

Thanks.

Thoughts on this anyone.
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post #1200 of 7000 Old 08-24-2009, 10:00 AM
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She just showed up! Ordered from a place on Ebay and was shipped through Con-Way Freight. Was palletized and both the exterior packaging and panel inside were MINT. Not a scratch or blemish on them, and I turned it on and got no hum and got the No Input Screen.

I was a little concerned about the whole "gray background while off or under lights" issue, so I put it on the floor next to my current LG 55LH90 LED backlit LCD for comparison:

the first image below is from about a 50-60 degree angle from perpendicular in a reasonably well-lit room (you can see the blinds), the other is from almost straight on. You can see that the AR coating on the Kuro gives a kind of greenish/bluish look compared to the very black looking LG (note: the LG uses a semi-matte screen). The Kuro definitely doesn't look "black" with that much light on the panel, but I've yet to try it with the panel on, so it could be a different story then.

I plan to hang it later today and run some tests with the LG side by side.
LL
LL
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