The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 56 - AVS Forum
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post #1651 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post

Does anyone who has had their 500M patched and calibrated have the any of the 9-point Gamma controls set differently?

Yes.
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post #1652 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Yes.

May I ask which ones and what effect they had for you?

Thanks,

--Mark--
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post #1653 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 10:49 AM
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Just posting to say hi : ). Long time reader, but now I would like to download stuff.

My westinghose 37in lcd monitor had developed lots of visual problems which come from now "known defects"
I've heard horror stories about westinghouse support, so to heck with it, new tv time!

I was thinking about v-10, but few reviews, limited availability and no real price drop yet. Finally, after following the kuro threads and realizing that there very well might be only a few weeks/months left of availability, I bit.

Ordered a 500m from monitor outlet for 1600ish and a ts23 stand from ebay for about 60. Going to run the break in when it comes and then hopefully getting it calibrated soon after by someone in phoenix/az

I'm a math teacher so it'll be nice after a long day of kids : P to throw on something pretty/relaxing into the ps3!
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post #1654 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:02 AM
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just thought I'd post this as I feel really good about my 500m purchase. I recently made the move over from Samsung after numerous problems and I'm still in break in mode with the 500 mode. Contrast, brightness and color are scaled way back right now. Running some HD images on the set to break it in and my wife (who could care less about HD/SD or what kind of tv I have) just walked in, saw some of the pictures and said, "WOW! Look at the blacks on this thing. It's beautiful." Now, I have never said anything to her about the black levels on pioneers or how well regarded this set is. She actually complimented one of my tv's! This day is right up there with the day I got married and my son was born. Well, maybe not, but still pretty cool. Thanks to everyone on this thread who has sung the accolades of the Pioneer sets and convinced me that was the way to go. I'm a believer.
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post #1655 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:


From what I've see so far, there doesn't seem to be much point in the 9-point Gamma controls.

Most of the post-cal settigs I have seen thus far, including my own, have them all set the same.

I'm not sure what post-cal settings you're looking at, but the chances that they are all the same and all correct is unlikely as there will be panel to panel variation for starters.

And yes, there is a large point to the controls. The improvement in getting them properly adjusted is not small, like I said.

They were left untouched within the ISF modes when my 111FD was calibrated, and the 500M, after addressing them, looks far, far better.
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post #1656 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershick View Post

Hey guys,

Just wondering how much should I be looking to spend on a KRP-500m stand? Any thoughts? I know about the KRP-TS02 but that's 300 bones on pioneer site. I don't see this stand on ebay either =/

I almost pulled the trigger on this stand $15 + $25 shipping ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT ). This auction has ended but I have seen this seller put the stand back on auction from time to time. Under $50 for a new PDK-TS23 (the other compatible Pioneer stand for the 500M). Great deal. Search that model # and you will find another for $45 + $25 shipping if your in a hurry. I did not purchase from this seller just because Abes of Maine worked out a deal on the stand and a warranty.

I just set my 500M and the PDK-TS23 up last night! It looks great and easy to set up. I recommend it.
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post #1657 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I'm not sure what post-cal settings you're looking at, but the chances that they are all the same and all correct is unlikely as there will be panel to panel variation for starters.

And yes, there is a large point to the controls. The improvement in getting them properly adjusted is not small, like I said.

They were left untouched within the ISF modes when my 111FD was calibrated, and the 500M, after addressing them, looks far, far better.

Thanks tbird,

There are 9 groups (each group representing 10% to 90% luminance in 10% steps) of 3 controls, R, G & B.

Normally, if you're going for an overall Gamma of about 2.2, you'd set them all to "-1" to start with. Lets call that the "nominal" value.

Can you give me an example of which of them needed to be adjusted away from that nominal value on your 500M?

In the posted workflow, you'd adjust them after the RGB Hi / Lo controls and then tweak back & forth between these 2 groups of controls because there is some (I guess quite a bit of) interaction between them.

--Mark--
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post #1658 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post

Normally, if you're going for an overall Gamma of about 2.2, you'd set them all to "-1" to start with. Lets call that the "nominal" value.

Calling this the normal value or refering to -1 as normal to get a 2.2 gamma is incorrect.

Quote:


Can you give me an example of which of them needed to be adjusted away from that nominal value on your 500M?

Generally speaking, all of the 9 point gamma controls would end up being the same value post calibration. However, it is not true for all panels nor was it true for tbird8450's panel.

Quote:


In the posted workflow, you'd adjust them after the RGB Hi / Lo controls and then tweak back & forth between these 2 groups of controls because there is some (I guess quite a bit of) interaction between them.

--Mark--

The 9 point gamma controls should never be used to compensate for anything that deals with grayscale adjustment. They should exclusively be used for gamma.
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post #1659 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:


Can you give me an example of which of them needed to be adjusted away from that nominal value on your 500M?

I don't have the gamma settings in front of me at the moment, but I can try to get them when I get back on the TV (assuming D-Nice has no issues with it). However, each panel will likely perform a little differently than the next, so what works for me probably won't work for you.

As I said above, D-Nice's recommended settings were not what I ended up with after he had calibrated my 500M. He made several changes in order to arrive at the optimum results.
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post #1660 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

(assuming D-Nice has no issues with it).

I do not as the settings belong to you

BTW, thank you for the complements in your calibration review. I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to create the best picture possible on your 500M.
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post #1661 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflandis View Post

I almost pulled the trigger on this stand $15 + $25 shipping ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT ). This auction has ended but I have seen this seller put the stand back on auction from time to time. Under $50 for a new PDK-TS23 (the other compatible Pioneer stand for the 500M). Great deal. Search that model # and you will find another for $45 + $25 shipping if your in a hurry. I did not purchase from this seller just because Abes of Maine worked out a deal on the stand and a warranty.

I just set my 500M and the PDK-TS23 up last night! It looks great and easy to set up. I recommend it.

Jeff,

It's probably been asked before but what's the difference between your stand (PDK-TS23) and the official stand (KRP-TS02)? I know the TS02 is glossy and from google images, has a rather large base. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Any pictures of your setup? I would love to see it!

Also, thanks for the heads up on the ebay seller selling that stand. I'll msg the seller if i make a decision.
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post #1662 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:05 PM
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Hi all, I'm getting delivery on a KRP-600M in 2 weeks and wanted to thank all of the contributors/owners on this site and specifically the Pioneer- 9G forums for their invaluable information and comments. You have made researching and deciding upon a Hi-Def flat panel display both very informative and often entertaining!
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post #1663 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Calling this the normal value or refering to -1 as normal to get a 2.2 gamma is incorrect.

Thank you for the reply D-Nice.

Generally speaking, all of the 9 point gamma controls would end up being the same value post calibration. However, it is not true for all panels nor was it true for tbird8450's panel.

The 9 point gamma controls should never be used to compensate for anything that deals with grayscale adjustment. They should exclusively be used for gamma.

Isn't it true though that setting them all to -1 will give you a good starting point of around Gamma 2.2?

Understood about the panel variations.

But there is some interaction though, correct?

For example, if you need to adjust a Gamma point control to correct the Gamma at a certain level, that can have an effect on the Grayscale where you would then need to go back to the Grayscale controls and touch them up, correct?

Thanks Again,

--Mark--
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post #1664 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:26 PM
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The goal of calibration is to adjust your display to adhere to the video standards so that one can see (and hopefully respect) content per what the director wanted you to see.....after all its a form of art

If you want to see content on your display that they way you want to see it, thats fine however, it means that you probably are not a canidate for calibration.

use your panel the way you want to use it
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARQMAGE View Post

D-Nice, I'm as ignorant as they come with regards to this issue but I do have a concern. If the gist of calibration is to preserve (as faithfully as possible) the fidelity of the communicable information from a given source then calibration might not be for me. Is it erroneous for me to interpret cinema as purely entertainment, as opposed to "mass communication" as GeorgeAB effectively coined? If so then my question is what exactly is being communicated by cinema? Information? Philosophy? Some faux-moralistic Aesop fable ideology where the protagonist is rewarded for being the "good guy" (after evil is punished) by continuing into that imaginary beyond past the rolling credits? What exactly is the director communicating to his audience that is so inexorably hinged on adroit visual interpolation? Aside from a painfully small handful of offerings, there is nothing in modern cinema that can be reasonably construed as "artistic" to warrant such adherence to fidelity.

If by communication, GeorgeAB is exclusively refering to the images of the film source being faithfully reproduced, then I guess I can understand that. However, is it entirely wrong to want to add a dash of seasoning to the mix in accordance with one's own leanings? ....Not if the intent of the communicable data is to entertain.

What cinema offers to some (ok, me) is escapism, pure and simple; a momentary respite from the often monotonous vicissitudes of life, where imagination and medium interface and the viewer vicariously embodies an on-screen avatar, resolving life altering dilemnas within a two hour time frame. Is it wrong to then also include seasoning with regards to the visual aspect of the medium in the fantasy? Is it wrong to want to incorporate a hyperstylized representation (via vibrant color saturation, razor-keen edge delineation,etc) of the communicable data for the purpose of enhancing its entertainment value? What good is entertainment if the viewer isn't being entertained? If world famous Chef Wolfgang Puck whips up a rack of lamb, is it considered sacrilege of the highest order to sprinkle a dash of salt on it, if one felt it would enhance the dining experience?

I want every strand of hair to leap off the screen in bold relief, every variant of hue and every texture to vie with ruthless intensity for the scrutinizing gaze of my admittedly jaundiced eye, whether it faithfully reflects the source or not. GeorgeAB said it best,.."some brains are just wired differently".

I appreciate and respect the esteemed patrons of this board (D-Nice, Elite-Home, GeorgeAB and everyone else here for that matter) for their candor and know-how, but I realize that what I seek cannot be found here. The KRP-500M may be THE reference panel (to end all reference panels) if one is seeking the ultimate in image accuracy but faulty programming has made it impossible for me to appreciate it on its own merits. I'm in love with the 5010FD for all the wrong reasons, but in love nonetheless. The 5010FD delivers for me that which I seek, albeit however inaccurately, which in itself is an indictment; curse my eyes, it justs looks better to me. I'm Cipher seeking reinsertion into the Matrix, choosing simulation over that which is being simulated. I apologize for derailing the thread. I won't bother you guys anymore with my anti-KRP rhetoric (yeah, I know, good riddance). Anyone in the NY area looking to purchase a (stored away in plastic) 4 month old KRP-500M in absolutely perfect condition for dirt cheap, IM me..

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post #1665 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:27 PM
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Do you guys think it's worth it to try and stretch my budget a little for 6 months or so to try and finance one of these? Realistically speaking I should be able to afford one, but I've been having a hard time with my credit. Just not enough history and a few late payments.

I want a 500m more than anything.
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post #1666 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post

Isn't it true though that setting them all to -1 will give you a good starting point of around Gamma 2.2?

No.

Quote:


But there is some interaction though, correct?

Yes, but i have not seen anything positive about the interactions.

Quote:


For example, if you need to adjust a Gamma point control to correct the Gamma at a certain level, that can have an effect on the Grayscale where you would then need to go back to the Grayscale controls and touch them up, correct?

Thanks Again,

--Mark--

The CMS and grayscale controls are the only controls that should be used to adjust/correct the grayscale.
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post #1667 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallows View Post

Do you guys think it's worth it to try and stretch my budget a little for 6 months or so to try and finance one of these? Realistically speaking I should be able to afford one, but I've been having a hard time with my credit. Just not enough history and a few late payments.

I want a 500m more than anything.

Afford what you can afford. Please do not place yourself in any financial bind just to get the panel
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post #1668 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Afford what you can afford. Please do not place yourself in any financial bind just to get the panel

I do things like that occasionally. If it's worth it. I'm not frugal with my money though. :[
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post #1669 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No.

Yes, but i have not seen anything positive about the interactions.

The CMS and grayscale controls are the only controls that should be used to adjust/correct the grayscale.

Thank You,

--Mark--
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post #1670 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:08 PM
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Below are my post-calibration ISF-Day numbers. As you can see, they are quite different from the recommended settings:

AV Selection: ISF-Day
Contrast: 36
Brightness: 1
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

RGB Controls
R High: -7
G High: 0
B High: +3
R Low: -2
G Low: 0
B Low: 0

Color Management
R: 0
Y: +2
G: -1
C: 0
B: 0
M: 0

Gamma
10%R 0
10%G 0
10%B 0
20%R 0
20%G 0
20%B 0
30%R 0
30%G 0
30%B 0
40%R 0
40%G 0
40%B 0
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 1
60%G 1
60%B 1
70%R 1
70%G 1
70%B 1
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0
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post #1671 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershick View Post

Jeff,

It's probably been asked before but what's the difference between your stand (PDK-TS23) and the official stand (KRP-TS02)? I know the TS02 is glossy and from google images, has a rather large base. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Any pictures of your setup? I would love to see it!

Also, thanks for the heads up on the ebay seller selling that stand. I'll msg the seller if i make a decision.

I am not too certain of the actual differences between the two as I have not seen the TS02. They do not seem to be readily available for purchase. The one difference I have read on here is that the TS02 uses the built in TV mounting slots to secure itself to the base. The TS23 uses the back of the TV as a mount position. I also thought the TS23 was going to be glossy from the pictures online, but it turned out to by a slightly brushed black with a bit of sheen. It looks good. I will get some pictures up tonight.

Another thing is that the TS23 looks to have slightly rounded corners on the base over the squared off look of the TS02. I like the rounded corner look better.

My personal opinion is that I would purchase the TS23 over the TS02 because of the price difference alone. Getting a $200 Pioneer stand for $50 is a good deal. Just to note that the TS23 is a recognized alternative to the TS02 in these forums.
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post #1672 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:27 PM
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tbird,
What's your light output on ISF Day now?
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post #1673 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:33 PM
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Just got my 500m, well 117 hours of use ago! I've been studying all the setting adjustments/break-in procedures from this thread. I can't seem to find the answer to a rather silly question.

When watching satellite tv feed(limited to 4:3), I prefer to use the cinema 14:9 ratio as it fills the screen a bit more without distorting the picture the way "wide" or "full" would. (BTW, if there's a better format/way to view 4:3, I'm all ears.) The only way I have been able to address the screen size is by using the virtual remote on my computer. With my remote control, I have gone to the menus, home-->screen-->auto size, but there are no aspect ratios to choose from.

So my question is how do I change the screen settings using the remote control?

My satellite feed is passed to my receiver, then to the tv to video input 1. No HDMI from the sat box to use.

Many thanks in advance for your help and for all the great information I have all ready taken in from reading this thread.

Michael
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post #1674 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkane View Post

So my question is how do I change the screen settings using the remote control?

Press the "Screen Size" button
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post #1675 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

tbird,
What's your light output on ISF Day now?

51ftL.
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post #1676 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Press the "Screen Size" button

That's funny. I got my 500M delivered and I was faithfully entering D-Nice's break-in settings in anticipation of receiving the break-in DVD a couple of days later. I got all the settings right except I too couldn't find how to input "Full-1."
I had to get back on AVS forum and search and THEN found out that there was a button right there on my remote!

Jamese777
Perpetual Newbie
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post #1677 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 03:13 PM
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I just spoke with my dealer in SoCal, and this is what he had to say about the avaialablity of the 600M.

Quote:


I just talked with 2 different distributors and they said the KRP600M is completely out of stock at the factory. The PRO-141 is available in limited quantities....

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post #1678 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post

May I ask which ones and what effect they had for you?

That's a link to D-Nice's 500M settings.
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post #1679 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkane View Post

Just got my 500m, well 117 hours of use ago!

Welcome to AVS and congratulations on a wonderful monitor. My personal favorite by the way.
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post #1680 of 7000 Old 09-04-2009, 04:20 PM
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[quote=D-Nice;17123096]Press the "Screen Size" button [/QUOTE
What a novel concept, a 'screen size' button to change the screen size

Thank you.
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