The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 60 - AVS Forum
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post #1771 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 11:09 AM
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Did anyone else use a Monoprice wall mount with their 500m?
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post #1772 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayreonaut View Post

Here's how I know.

I suggest you discuss your process in the calibration forum. People there can help you out.
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post #1773 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 01:58 PM
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Awww yeah, this suckas big : ). No bad pixels so far (knock on wood) and no cracks. I also have an extra mount now since monitor direct sent me one and I also bought one off ebay. So if something is looking for a ts23 for cheap shoot me a pm.

I'm staring at a big green screen right now (running through the breakin). I noticed that some people were talking about specific settings for ps3? Do I need to bother looking at those for the breakin dvd...it's just showing different colors full screen.
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post #1774 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocadelpunk View Post

Do I need to bother looking at those for the breakin dvd.

No.
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post #1775 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post

Did anyone else use a Monoprice wall mount with their 500m?

Yep. works great! Just the basic tilt mount, I forget the model number. But it was around $25.
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post #1776 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayreonaut View Post

Here's how I know.

First I tried setting Brightness to +1. I then set greyscale correctly for 10% (or 30%). Then I measured a 1% pattern. It was similar in color to the 0% pattern (too blue) because the colors weren't coming up together. 2% measured neutral gray at those settings.

Then I set the Brightness to +2. I was then able to set the greyscale so that 1% and 10% and 30% etc. were all perfectly gray. All the colors came up together because they weren't being clipped at 1%.I know there are. But I understand that they aren't very useful at 1%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I read in the Greyscale & Color Calibration for Dummies.

Ayrenaut,

I believe you are getting these results due to setting GLow to +3. GLow should theoretically not be touched as it messes the low end brightness quite a bit. Try reseting the RGB low to 0 then setting ur brightness. I believe shadow detail will be all ok at brightness not more than +1. On using a camera for setting RGB, I'm no expert on this. However, I do believe that most colorimeters and spectrophotometers are quite ok when it comes to 30% white patterns.
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post #1777 of 6991 Old 09-09-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

Yep. works great! Just the basic tilt mount, I forget the model number. But it was around $25.

Ya, I used that mount for my old 60u (Panny). Looks like I'll go that route again, can't beat it for the price huh?
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post #1778 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

Yep. works great! Just the basic tilt mount, I forget the model number. But it was around $25.

Anyone know if a basic monoprice tilt mount works fine with the 600m?
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post #1779 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeve View Post

Anyone know if a basic monoprice tilt mount works fine with the 600m?

I don't think those will work as the 600M holes are really far apart. check this post for alternatives:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=158

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post #1780 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 07:18 AM
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I was told that none of the mounts at Monoprice work with the 600m.
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post #1781 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeve View Post

Anyone know if a basic monoprice tilt mount works fine with the 600m?

No it doesn't.

There is advice in the FAQ.
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post #1782 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 08:49 AM
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So last night I finally got around to installing the ISFccc patch on my 500m. The difference is...dramatic. The set is much brighter (to my eyes about the same as standard/user mode) and the color is richer and just looks "right."

What I can't understand is why Pioneer makes it so difficult to get this level of quality out of their displays. I can sort of understand having a low end model (5020) and a high end model (Signature Elite) but why not allow the end user to get to these settings without using a SERIAL interface, for god's sakes. And it can't just be due to panel variations, because I just plugged in D-Nice's settings. At some point I may pull out my meter and do a calibration but for now I'm satisfied.
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post #1783 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 08:53 AM
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Also, does anyone know more or less where ISF Night mode starts to clip white? D-Nice's settings for that mode are probably going to give me around 30 ftl, which is a little dim. If possible, 40ftl would be perfect for night time viewing (ISF day looks awesome but is a little bit of a torch for a pitch dark room).
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post #1784 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Also, does anyone know more or less where ISF Night mode starts to clip white? D-Nice's settings for that mode are probably going to give me around 30 ftl, which is a little dim. If possible, 40ftl would be perfect for night time viewing (ISF day looks awesome but is a little bit of a torch for a pitch dark room).

You could try asking turbe if anyone has posted those, or check on the controlcal forum.

D-Nice calibrated my 111's ISF Night for around 40ftl, and it looks perfect. Matter of fact, that's the pic mode I use by default about 90% of the time. It's good for just about all situations.
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post #1785 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

You could try asking turbe if anyone has posted those, or check on the controlcal forum.

D-Nice calibrated my 111's ISF Night for around 40ftl, and it looks perfect. Matter of fact, that's the pic mode I use by default about 90% of the time. It's good for just about all situations.

Do you know what contrast setting he used to reach 40ftl with ISF night?
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post #1786 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Also, does anyone know more or less where ISF Night mode starts to clip white? D-Nice's settings for that mode are probably going to give me around 30 ftl, which is a little dim. If possible, 40ftl would be perfect for night time viewing (ISF day looks awesome but is a little bit of a torch for a pitch dark room).

The isf Day and isf Night memories will have the same performace with the same settings... approx. Contrast @ 40 (+/1) and you will start experiencing issues... Hitting 40fL should be no problem for isf Night/Day on a 50" or 60".

For your isf Night memory, test 32-40fL and see what works for you.. I like 32-34fL for isf Night in my environment.

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Calibrator List - Pioneer ISFccc Interface

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post #1787 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

The isf Day and isf Night memories will have the same performace with the same settings... approx. Contrast @ 40 (+/1) and you will start experiencing issues... Hitting 40fL should be no problem for isf Night/Day on a 50" or 60".

For your isf Night memory, test 32-40fL and see what works for you.. I like 32-34fL for isf Night in my environment.

I'm just being lazy and trying to avoid having to actually measure the ftl. As long as you say that ~40 contrast will avoid clipping, I'll set ISF night to 37 or 38 contrast and see if it's bright enough.

Thanks!
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post #1788 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

I'm just being lazy and trying to avoid having to actually measure the ftl. As long as you say that ~40 contrast will avoid clipping, I'll set ISF night to 37 or 38 contrast and see if it's bright enough.

Thanks!

If you want around 40fL, you will want to be well below 37, try 27-30 for Contrast..

Your isf Night Contrast is 19 now (and isf Day at 36), correct?

Remember, changing the Contrast only will require another cal session

EDIT: Bust that meter out

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post #1789 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

If you want around 40fL, you will want to be well below 37, try 27-30 for Contrast..

Your isf Night Contrast is 19 now (and isf Day at 36), correct?

Remember, changing the Contrast only will require another cal session

EDIT: Bust that meter out

Bah, okay. I guess that's what I'll have to do.

Right now ISF day contrast is 36, yes. I haven't set up ISF Night yet.
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post #1790 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:50 AM
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Why does the color look different in the ISF modes vs. pure? Pure measures virtually perfectly but there's a very visible difference between the two, with ISF day looking much more vivid. It's not just the extra brightness, is it?
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post #1791 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 09:55 AM
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I thought it would be great to have the burn in disk run all night. But when I got up in the morning the 500m had a black screen. I guess at some point it shut itself down even though the DVD was still playing on its repeat loop. Per the "manage power settings" on page 49 of the manual I have AV-Source-No Signal and AV-Source Non-operational both set to disable.

Is it possible to run the disk for several hours without the 500m shutting down/going to black-standby?

And is this a bad idea?

Many thanks,
Michael
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post #1792 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mjkane View Post

I thought it would be great to have the burn in disk run all night. But when I got up in the morning the 500m had a black screen. I guess at some point it shut itself down even though the DVD was still playing on its repeat loop. Per the "manage power settings" on page 49 of the manual I have AV-Source-No Signal and AV-Source Non-operational both set to disable.

Is it possible to run the disk for several hours without the 500m shutting down/going to black-standby?

And is this a bad idea?

Many thanks,
Michael

I ran the break in dvd 24 hours a day for six plus days and only shut it off for about two hours when company came over to watch a movie on my front projector. My 500M never shut itself down.

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post #1793 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 10:51 AM
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chris,

With the 500Ms, an ISFccc Contrast of 36 seems to consistently be the maximum setting for non-clipping. That should provide in the area of 50ftL+.

And Pure and ISFccc are not "built" the same. While you may be able to get them to measure identically, the same measurements will produce different results due to how they are coded. If you get the gamma settings just right, the ISF modes erradicate all other modes in terms of natural depth and dimension, IMO. Pure, et al simply can't match their visual quality no matter what you do.
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post #1794 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

So last night I finally got around to installing the ISFccc patch on my 500m.

I just got my 600m tuesday!!!!!! and I have seen "ISFccc" through out AVS but still a mystery to me . Where does 1 get the patch? How do you install it? what will it do? I'm doing D-Nice break-in right now..help? TNX..
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post #1795 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

It's not just the extra brightness, is it?

There are two schools of thought. I'm of the opinion that it is almost completely the brightness but other people assert that there are profound but unmeasurable differences. I've done some critical comparison of Pure and ISFccc at the same output level. I think there is a subtle difference. Not many people agree but then it can be difficult to tease out the psychology from the physical reality. Witness $14,500 power cables.
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post #1796 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamese777 View Post

I ran the break in dvd 24 hours a day for six plus days and only shut it off for about two hours when company came over to watch a movie on my front projector. My 500M never shut itself down.

Good to know that running it 24/7 will not harm anything. But if my settings are correct (AV-Source-No Signal and AV-Source Non-operational set to disable) then I can't figure out what's happening. If this helps the DVD player uses the HDMI output directly to the 500m input 5 and the audio (which probably doesn't matter) goes to my AVR.

Anybody got some ideas?

Thanks again,
Michael
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post #1797 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:21 AM
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I've done some critical comparison of Pure and ISFccc at the same output level. I think there is a subtle difference.

My ISF Night and Pure are currently at the same level of light output (at least visually). There is a pretty dramatic difference in picture quality between the two. As I stated above, ISF Night is clearly more dimensional - but this only occured after completing a full calibration. I have found nothing within Pure that can mimic that quality.
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post #1798 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsredsled View Post

I have seen "ISFccc" through out AVS... Where does 1 get the patch? How do you install it? what will it do? I'm doing D-Nice break-in right now..help?

Reading the settings section of the FAQ is a good start.

ISFccc management for the Kuro line is done using ControlCAL. Details at www.controlcal.com. Search for "Pioneer North American ISFccc Patch"
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post #1799 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

There is a pretty dramatic difference in picture quality between the two.

I'm not denying your position. I'm simply pointing out that not everyone agrees. Much like the 500M black level or the "blotch" or yellow Pure. I'd rather have someone be pleasantly surprised by a comparison than disappointed.

By the way, nothing I say about measurement is "by eye". My meter and I have spent hours peering at my 500M.
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post #1800 of 6991 Old 09-10-2009, 11:45 AM
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In my experience, the performance (or lack thereof) of the ISF modes is largely a matter of settings. If one were to go back into my posting history, they'd find that up until very recently I wasn't one of the ISFccc flag wavers. In fact I questioned their advantage in anything other than light output and I advocated Pure quite frequently in darker environments. This was even after having my 111FD pro-calibrated.

However, the 500M was calibrated differently, and having lived with the results it's clear to me now what all of the fuss was about.

But yes, I agree that one could be as easily disappointed as pleasantly surprised depending on their expectations and how their personal display is set up within the relevant modes.
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