The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Pt. II - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coconutgroves View Post


The conclusion was:
There is no question that these displays need breaking-in.

Not to put a knock on the folks at Avical but no one with any interest in fidelity is using the Pioneer gamut. The article is interesting (probably not for the reasons the author thinks) but this is the only pertinent information:

Quote:
Color Space 2, which was very close to Rec. 709 specifications, read consistently with practically no difference between window-box and raster patterns or break-in period.



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post #212 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

More Xbox/PS3 findings

1) PS3->YCC/FULL + Kuro->Auto = Good black level
2) PS3->YCC/FULL + Kuro->RGB 16-235 = Darkest blacks (I think its crushed though)
3) Xbox->RGB/Expanded + Kuro->RGB 16-235 = What looks to be correct black levels
4) Xbox->RGB/Expanded + Kuro->Auto = dark shade of gray

However, AVSHD reports that 3) crushes blacks badly and 4) is correct. I think the XBOX games are at fault here potentially.

You would think 1) and 4) would generate the same black level, but PS3 is noticeably darker when playing games.

Another question that I do not think was ever answered. Why does D-Nice suggest telling the PS3 to display movies in RGB instead of the native YCC format?

I use YCC on the PS3, YCC 709 on the Xbox 360, and Auto on the Kuro.

BTB works on the PS3. I haven't tried on the xbox but I don't see why it won't work.
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post #213 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coconutgroves View Post

No offense, but if you haven't personally tried, how do you know?

Why do you assume that?


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post #214 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

An excellent decision. You'll will be getting one of the best of the best.



Just to be clear ... the D-Nice process is not quite what Doug was talking about (taking a risk here and trying to interpret what he said). D-Nice has revised his instructions over time (although the 8G instructions said OPTIONAL in big letters) to make it clear that his procedure is not about what most people think of as break-in. It probably shouldn't be called that but it does share some attributes of old-school plasma preparation. What Doug is probably talking about happens in the factory when you buy a KRP. What D-Nice is doing is a pre-calibration of sorts. Sadly a great many people have taken various legitimate threads and woven them into a mistake. The manufacturers don't help with their conflicting and often ridiculous advice.

Thanks! I don't doubt anything you said about DNice's procedure...and it is more of a pre-calibration routine no question. These guys are pros and obviously know what they are talking about.

Not to paraphrase any info passed on to me, but in a nutshell I asked if he recommended any particular break-in discs, and that was his answer (nothing to do with the factory break-in). While the 150-200 hour break-in period IS indeed necessary, HOW you break it in is another story...that's my only point.
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post #215 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coconutgroves View Post

Ummm, this guys says differently:

http://moshjahan.net/blog/blog/defau...n-Pioneer-KURO

No offense, but if you haven't personally tried, how do you know? Again, I saw that turbe said not all the settings are available if you do this. But the question remains - what does this do? I might try tonight on an input I don't plan on using.

I tried and i could do some rudimentary settings with colour, brightness, and contrast. I just wanted the ISF-logos, honestly.

As you said, it is a good idea to use it on a input you dont use.
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post #216 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surap View Post

I tried and i could do some rudimentary settings with colour, brightness, and contrast. I just wanted the ISF-logos, honestly.

As you said, it is a good idea to use it on a input you dont use.

No gamma control?

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post #217 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post

I use YCC on the PS3, YCC 709 on the Xbox 360, and Auto on the Kuro.

BTB works on the PS3. I haven't tried on the xbox but I don't see why it won't work.

Well after a lot of exprimenting, YCC 709 or RGB/Extended is correct on the Xbox according to the AVSHD disk. However, some Xbox games just do not follow this standard (Left 4 Dead is one of them) so the game's blacks will look gray unless you switch to RGB 16-235 on the Kuro. Games that do follow the standard will result in crushed blacks if you switch the kuro to RGB 16-235.

Stupid game developers.

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post #218 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coconutgroves View Post

Ummm, this guys says differently:
http://moshjahan.net/blog/blog/defau...n-Pioneer-KURO

I've seen that article before. The author has a UK/Euro 500M which has ISFccc enabled.

Quote:
No offense, but if you haven't personally tried, how do you know?

Yes, I tried that method. You can get to the page, but the adjustments do not work on an unpatched NA KRP.

Quote:
Again, I saw that turbe said not all the settings are available if you do this. But the question remains - what does this do? I might try tonight on an input I don't plan on using.

He is referring to the limited functionality of the ISF page vs. the additional ISF adjustments available with 3rd party software. Search the threads for "Pioneer ISFccc" for more info on what it provides.


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(Updated 10/29/2009)
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post #219 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

You did this on an umodified North American KRP (KUCXC model)?

Surap has a Euro KRP.


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(Updated 10/29/2009)
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post #220 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Search the threads for "Pioneer ISFccc" for more info on what it provides.

I think this was hashed out early this year in the 141 thread. But maybe not.


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post #221 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:12 AM
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Anyone have an issue with getting a network cable connected to the 500m? None of my cables "click" when inserting and the Kuro never gets an IP..

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post #222 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

No gamma control?

There's a picture of the web page (as rendered by IE) in the 141FD first post.


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post #223 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Anyone have an issue with getting a network cable connected to the 500m? None of my cables "click" when inserting and the Kuro never gets an IP..

I have, for various silly reasons, plugged four different cables into my KRP (one actually was bad). No problems. If the lights don't blink you don't have a connection. Assuming you haven't turned off the network LEDs.


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post #224 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

There's a picture of the web page (as rendered by IE) in the 141FD first post.

I see, so basically using the web browser to activate ISF-Day and ISF-Night is no different than pure mode? As in, you cannot get extra brightness without screwing with the gamma and gray-scale?

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post #225 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I have, for various silly reasons, plugged four different cables into my KRP (one actually was bad). No problems. If the lights don't blink you don't have a connection. Assuming you haven't turned off the network LEDs.

No idea what the deal is with the network jack on my 500m. Nothing will "click" in. Very strange.

Edit: I am an idiot and did not turn on IP Control!

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post #226 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I see, so basically using the web browser to activate ISF-Day and ISF-Night is no different than pure mode? As in, you cannot get extra brightness without screwing with the gamma and gray-scale?

No that's not the case. The primary control for luminance is Contrast.


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post #227 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:43 AM
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My 500m is suppose to be here today. I am thinking about getting it calibrated but noticed no one does the Nashville, TN area. I see Chattanooga but not Nashville on the Calibration thread.

Guess I need one of those Matrix chairs....Tank load me up an ISFccc calibration program...hehe.
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post #228 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

No that's not the case. The primary control for luminance is Contrast.

I see. So are the ISF modes built on a different template to allow for higher luminance than pure regardless of gamma control?

Anyways, I enter the web interface but I cannot get the ISF Modes to show up in the picture settings. TV keeps saying ISF Modes do not work with this model

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post #229 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daca1001 View Post

My 500m is suppose to be here today. I am thinking about getting it calibrated but noticed no one does the Nashville, TN area. I see Chattanooga but not Nashville on the Calibration thread.

Guess I need one of those Matrix chairs....Tank load me up an ISFccc calibration program...hehe.

Although the title says non-Elite Turbe maintains a list of calibrators in the first two posts of this thread. They are tagged by display type. Many of them tour so if TN is listed you can expect coverage for most of the state. Certainly Nashville. At some point in time some of them will be able to do an ISFccc calibration as well as doing non-ISF modes.


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post #230 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I see. So are the ISF modes built on a different template to allow for higher luminance than pure ...?

That's how some people would describe it.

Quote:


... [the] TV keeps saying ISF Modes do not work with this model

That's correct.


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post #231 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

That's how some people would describe it.



That's correct.

Gotcha, so the web-interface really does nothing for isf tweaking.

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post #232 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

No gamma control?

No.
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post #233 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surap View Post

No.

And this won't do anything for a NA 500m. Basically it just a label on the web-interface that you cannot use?

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post #234 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I see. So are the ISF modes built on a different template to allow for higher luminance than pure regardless of gamma control?

Anyways, I enter the web interface but I cannot get the ISF Modes to show up in the picture settings. TV keeps saying ISF Modes do not work with this model

I forgot to mention that I have the european model. My bad.
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post #235 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:31 PM
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do any of the calibrators ever come to Barbados??
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post #236 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

And this won't do anything for a NA 500m. Basically it just a label on the web-interface that you cannot use?

Well I can change the foremention brightness, contrast, and colour. So it is not totally useless. But without being able to know what the default gamma is, it is harder to "calibrate".

I would be surprised if any calibrator could find something useful at all with the web control. Maybe Pioneer had some idea that an ISF-calibrator could access a costumers TV to look if there is something wrong with the calibration.

Maybe it is a future look in to what a calibrator can do. I would gladly cough up some money and let him/her calibrate my TV from another part of the world. We have ISF calibrators here in Sweden. But what if I want a calibrator from USA? I could just give him my IP-adress and watch him calibrate. Not without buying a couple of beers first, I might add...
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post #237 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surap View Post

Well I can change the foremention brightness, contrast, and colour. So it is not totally useless. But without being able to know what the default gamma is, it is harder to "calibrate".

I would be surprised if any calibrator could find something useful at all with the web control. Maybe Pioneer had some idea that an ISF-calibrator could access a costumers TV to look if there is something wrong with the calibration.

Maybe it is a future look in to what a calibrator can do. I would gladly cough up some money and let him/her calibrate my TV from another part of the world. We have ISF calibrators here in Sweden. But what if I want a calibrator from USA? I could just give him my IP-adress and watch him calibrate. Not without buying a couple of beers first, I might add...

Only the NA versions of the 500m, you cannot change anything related to ISF modes. If I select Input 6 and ISF-Day and change the contrast, it will actually just change the contrast level for my current selected AV Mode (in my guess this was Standard).

I was hoping this would just unlock the ISF Templates without any gamma control. Back to the drawing board

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post #238 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Why do you assume that?

Because I didn't see a useful explanation. A "it doesn't work" doesn't explain why the ISF option is there and accessible.

The feature is there for a reason and I found no other posting that explained it in the level of detail of the posts that were made since my post. The level of info that followed is needed so everyone understands what this does and does not do.

Look on the bright side - more info for the FAQ...
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post #239 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Well after a lot of exprimenting, YCC 709 or RGB/Extended is correct on the Xbox according to the AVSHD disk. However, some Xbox games just do not follow this standard (Left 4 Dead is one of them) so the game's blacks will look gray unless you switch to RGB 16-235 on the Kuro. Games that do follow the standard will result in crushed blacks if you switch the kuro to RGB 16-235.

Stupid game developers.

Good to know. Thanks!
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post #240 of 7057 Old 07-16-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edguetzow View Post

I am using a Harmony One remote to control my system - perhaps program this to do the switching?

It's certainly possible but I think it would require variables. It might be worthwhile even if it just made it easy to get to the Video menu.


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