The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 800 Old 07-19-2012, 05:29 PM
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I have no idea about the UT or ST50. I haven't played around with either set.
HDTV.Uk.com's review mentioned that the ST50 is 16ms in game mode, but that's the 'UK' model.
My Panasonic 2012 X5 however when using component cables in 480p for the wii in 'Game mode', with all processing 'off' and the color matrix set to 'HD'(SD like i've mentioned increases input lag regardless of the content)
I'm guessing is in the 20+ Millaseconds. It's very good for digital controls. For motion controls,
also good but again you need every single ms for wii motion/pointer controls and the difference between even
a 16ms and a lag free Tube TV is pretty night and day. So for that i'm not completely satisfyed really.

I've read about these VP's that can lower lag, but apperantly it's only through an analog/SD connection.
So forget about decreasing the lag through HDMI, VGA or anything tha's being displayed in HD.
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post #362 of 800 Old 07-19-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I have no idea about the UT or ST50. I haven't played around with either set.
HDTV.Uk.com's review mentioned that the ST50 is 16ms in game mode, but that's the 'UK' model.
My Panasonic 2012 X5 however when using component cables in 480p for the wii in 'Game mode', with all processing 'off' and the color matrix set to 'HD'(SD like i've mentioned increases input lag regardless of the content)
I'm guessing is in the 20+ Millaseconds. It's very good for digital controls. For motion controls,
also good but again you need every single ms for wii motion/pointer controls and the difference between even
a 16ms and a lag free Tube TV is pretty night and day. So for that i'm not completely satisfyed really.
I've read about these VP's that can lower lag, but apperantly it's only through an analog/SD connection.
So forget about decreasing the lag through HDMI, VGA or anything tha's being displayed in HD.

I understand what your saying about the Wii pointer lag, but I believe that might not be input lag you are experiencing. I used to have my Wii connected to an SD CRT and if I recall correctly, the ir pointer was never 1:1, there was always a slight delay in the wii menu and games that used an ir pointer like super mario galaxy. So i recommend you try connecting the wii back to your CRT to test again, cause i'm pretty sure it was never one-to-one. This is why its hard to use a game to test lag, since many games lag inherently today.
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post #363 of 800 Old 07-19-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

What is the UT50's input lag compared to the ST50?

I don't know if you have the interest or have the hardware to do this, but it would be super awesome if you could run a SMTT lag test on your ST50! As an ST50 owner, I'd really love to get some thorough lag testing on this model. The STMM (http://smtt.thomasthiemann.com/index_en.html) lag test is pretty well respected, and the instructions to run it are quite clear, but it might be more than your interested in doing and it cost approx $5 (5 euros).

If you got a laptop with HDMI, you could also use that and run the lag test from this website: http://tft.vanity.dk/

Mirror the screens in 1080p, and take a photo with a digital camera at 1/160 or less shutter speed(1/200, 1/250, etc.). It's probably less accurate then SMTT but it will give us something. Plus it would be great for testing two different picture modes, like Game Mode vs Custom with all processing off (specifically motion smoother and black extension). It should be perfectly accurate in showing if there is any difference between the 2 modes. I much rather play in custom mode since you can turn off auto brightening.

I'd run these tests myself but I don't have a laptop with HDMI unfortunately.
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post #364 of 800 Old 07-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossip View Post

I understand what your saying about the Wii pointer lag, but I believe that might not be input lag you are experiencing. I used to have my Wii connected to an SD CRT and if I recall correctly, the ir pointer was never 1:1, there was always a slight delay in the wii menu and games that used an ir pointer like super mario galaxy. So i recommend you try connecting the wii back to your CRT to test again, cause i'm pretty sure it was never one-to-one. This is why its hard to use a game to test lag, since many games lag inherently today.

Metroid Prime 3 definitly feels 1:1, same deal with Resident Evil 4: Wii edition, Elebits and Silent Hill: Shattered
memories flash light controls ect ect. I was just fiddling around with my plasma and CRT again, and my CRT still smokes it. I don't feel any delay whatsoever on my tube.
Metroid Prime 3's wii pointer controls are such a ground breaking revolutionary control method for the first person genre. Makes the experience FAR more immersive, engrossing,
almost as if your arm/hand is an extension to the characters! XD
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post #365 of 800 Old 07-19-2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossip View Post

I don't know if you have the interest or have the hardware to do this, but it would be super awesome if you could run a SMTT lag test on your ST50! As an ST50 owner, I'd really love to get some thorough lag testing on this model. The STMM (http://smtt.thomasthiemann.com/index_en.html) lag test is pretty well respected, and the instructions to run it are quite clear, but it might be more than your interested in doing and it cost approx $5 (5 euros).
If you got a laptop with HDMI, you could also use that and run the lag test from this website: http://tft.vanity.dk/
Mirror the screens in 1080p, and take a photo with a digital camera at 1/160 or less shutter speed(1/200, 1/250, etc.). It's probably less accurate then SMTT but it will give us something. Plus it would be great for testing two different picture modes, like Game Mode vs Custom with all processing off (specifically motion smoother and black extension). It should be perfectly accurate in showing if there is any difference between the 2 modes. I much rather play in custom mode since you can turn off auto brightening.
I'd run these tests myself but I don't have a laptop with HDMI unfortunately.

I've already packed up my ST50 ... it's going back because of its lag.

Here you can find info about the lag:
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-UT50-TX-P50UT50B-P42UT50B-P50UT50-P42UT50-42-50-Inch-Full-HD-3D-Plasma-TV-Review_314/Review.html
"Gaming Performance - The new LagTest device has revealed that Panasonic’s 2012 plasma panels have more lag than the preceding 2 year’s ranges at least. With results in the high 40millisecond range compared to below 31ms for the 2010/11 VIERAs. The 50UT50 has actually emerged as the best of the bunch, so far, with a latency of 45.4 milliseconds, which isn’t stellar but we never found it an issue."
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post #366 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

I've already packed up my ST50 ... it's going back because of its lag.
Here you can find info about the lag:
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-UT50-TX-P50UT50B-P42UT50B-P50UT50-P42UT50-42-50-Inch-Full-HD-3D-Plasma-TV-Review_314/Review.html
"Gaming Performance - The new LagTest device has revealed that Panasonic’s 2012 plasma panels have more lag than the preceding 2 year’s ranges at least. With results in the high 40millisecond range compared to below 31ms for the 2010/11 VIERAs. The 50UT50 has actually emerged as the best of the bunch, so far, with a latency of 45.4 milliseconds, which isn’t stellar but we never found it an issue."

Yeah, as I said before, i'm skeptical of the new lag test. I'd love to see STMM or the other one I linked for additional analysis.
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post #367 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rossip View Post

Yeah, as I said before, i'm skeptical of the new lag test. I'd love to see STMM or the other one I linked for additional analysis.

You are skeptical, but I played games with the ST50. And I can tell you it is laggy! Some games were not fun to play. So the new lag test is accurate as far as I'm concerned.
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post #368 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 08:43 AM
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Well I guess i can forget about the UT50...I'm looking for a 16-20ms capable set....And it seems
only the Samsung E530 2012 plasma can deliver...But I'm assuming the black levels and brightness(in game mode) wont
match panasonics. how did Panasonics 2011 plasma's perform with input lag?
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post #369 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 09:51 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411114/panasonic-65-inch-st-50-bad-for-gaming-now#post_22235973

I just got a brand new ST50 65. It has no discernable input lag whatsoever. It is the best screen I have ever played a video game on (for reference - been playing since the Atari). I think this input lag issue is complete crap, I don't see what they are all talking about. My ST50 65 has no lag anywhere I can see.

My opinion is this: Buy this TV for gaming, buy this TV for its amazing ability to make regular 2D games (battlefield 3) look like native 3D games, buy this TV because it is freaking awesome!! And also, regular TV is amazing too.
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post #370 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMonkeyNuts View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411114/panasonic-65-inch-st-50-bad-for-gaming-now#post_22235973
I just got a brand new ST50 65. It has no discernable input lag whatsoever. It is the best screen I have ever played a video game on (for reference - been playing since the Atari). I think this input lag issue is complete crap, I don't see what they are all talking about. My ST50 65 has no lag anywhere I can see.
My opinion is this: Buy this TV for gaming, buy this TV for its amazing ability to make regular 2D games (battlefield 3) look like native 3D games, buy this TV because it is freaking awesome!! And also, regular TV is amazing too.

Atari 2600 was the shniz!cool.gif I've been gaing since the 80's, total nintendo freak and it's the only way i fly nowadays.
Even though i plan on getting a 50" 1080p set before the Wii U arrives, i think maybe i'll just get the 42" UT50 just to test out for input lag, and if i'm not satisfyed(i'll be comparing it to my other sets and CRT) i'll just
opt for the Samsung E530 as a ;ast resort. By the way do you have a CRT on the side to compare it to? The Panasonic X5 must have about 2 frames, in the 20ms+ area. I think 'any' gamer
would pretty darn satisfyed with traditional controls, but again motionc controls while still good are just not up to snuff in comaparison to a lag free CRT.

BTW what are your settings? Have you tried component vs hdmi to see if there's any difference in lag. I find that setting the color matrix to 'HD' weather the content is even ED/SD
helps reduce lag, obviously game mode and turning off the color management and Noise reduction settings while plugging the component or HDMI cable straight into the TV.

Does changing the HDMI input to 'PC MOde' help at all? Personally, the best method i use for testing is Mega Man 9 on the wii & pS3. because the controls
are so quick and zippity, i tend to use the jump mechanic quickly to get a feel of things. XP I'm so used to my CRT, and it's easy for me to do side by comparisons since i own
a 20" Sony Tube. I got rid of my other 32", it was just taking up too much space and it was
heavy as a dinosaur. I'll miss the lag free gaming and perferct & artifact free motion handeling. XP Plus no auto dimming BS to deal with.

That aside, the LK450 is the best set i've ever gamed on as far as low input lag goes via 480p through component.
My X5 is a teeny bit worse, but as is there's no way the UT50, or ST50 can be better, let alone
they're most likely not even on par....Maybe. Ya...I think i'll end up with the Sammy E530. eek!
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post #371 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Well I guess i can forget about the UT50...I'm looking for a 16-20ms capable set....And it seems
only the Samsung E530 2012 plasma can deliver...But I'm assuming the black levels and brightness(in game mode) wont
match panasonics. how did Panasonics 2011 plasma's perform with input lag?

The UT50 scored poorly along with the ST50 in terms of input lag. The 2010 and 2011 panasonic plasmas do MUCH better in terms of input lag than the 2012 Panasonic plasmas. Fifa was not enjoyable to play on the ST50 ... I was shocked by the amount of input lag in the set given how everyone lauds it. The new input lag test at AVforums turned out to be spot on.

Do you think panasonics 2010 and 2011 plasmas are equal to or better than the LK450 with input lag?

What did the Samsung E530 get on the new input lag test at AVforums?
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post #372 of 800 Old 07-20-2012, 09:20 PM
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The only 2011 plasma's i've played around with were the LG PT350 which has 'horrible' input lag, as do all LG plasmas. XP The samsung D450 wasn't up to snuff either, but better....It had this wierd nasty fliter-ish look to it, plus the controls still felt sluggish. I'll admit i didn't give it a fair shake, but the fuzzy filtered look and low brightness completely turned me off. The Panasonic X5 eclipses them both. wink.gif There's no way the X5 is in the 40ms area, i'd say mid to high 20's tops.

The LK450 is still king, at least through component in 480p regarding the VA panel. Too bad it's an LCD.....With typical LCD motion smearing, plus the black levels are pretty mediocre.
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post #373 of 800 Old 07-21-2012, 12:36 AM
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At this point, up until November I've got 3 options for Wii gaming.....For movies however the Panny X5 plasma is perfect for me. cool.gif

2011 LG 42" LK450
Pros: Awesome color gamut, amazing brightness, beautiful pure whites, cleaner/crisper image than both Plasma and CRT, no picture glare, NO auto dimming, '16ms'(best it can get for an HDTV!) input lag.
Cons: Inherent Motion Blurring(Big problem i have with it), Mediocre black levels, screen clouding depending..


2012 Pansonic 42" X5
Pros: Amazing color gamut, great brightness(best i've seen for a plasma in 'game' mode, LCD is still superior), deep black levels, MUCH better motion handeling than LCD(There is still a bit of blur + Motion artifacts though, my previous LG plasma wa sa bit better)
Cons: AUTO DIMMING! Ugh!(BIG deal breaker) and 20+ input lag

Samsung 27" Slim Fit Full screen CRT SDTV (has component input)
Pros: ZERO lag, No auto dimming, 'perfect' motion handeling, good black levels, great brightness, amazing color gamut
Cons: interlaced, 27" only instead of 32", bulky and heavy

If i can't disable the auto dimming on the plasma it's 'out' for gaming, The Slim Fit's 27" screen is a bit too small for my liking and the LCD's blur may get the best of me....
Hmmm, vhat to do.
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post #374 of 800 Old 07-21-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

At this point, up until November I've got 3 options for Wii gaming.....For movies however the Panny X5 plasma is perfect for me. cool.gif
2011 LG 42" LK450
Pros: Awesome color gamut, amazing brightness, beautiful pure whites, cleaner/crisper image than both Plasma and CRT, no picture glare, NO auto dimming, '16ms'(best it can get for an HDTV!) input lag.
Cons: Inherent Motion Blurring(Big problem i have with it), Mediocre black levels, screen clouding depending..
2012 Pansonic 42" X5
Pros: Amazing color gamut, great brightness(best i've seen for a plasma in 'game' mode, LCD is still superior), deep black levels, MUCH better motion handeling than LCD(There is still a bit of blur + Motion artifacts though, my previous LG plasma wa sa bit better)
Cons: AUTO DIMMING! Ugh!(BIG deal breaker) and 20+ input lag
Samsung 27" Slim Fit Full screen CRT SDTV (has component input)
Pros: ZERO lag, No auto dimming, 'perfect' motion handeling, good black levels, great brightness, amazing color gamut
Cons: interlaced, 27" only instead of 32", bulky and heavy
If i can't disable the auto dimming on the plasma it's 'out' for gaming, The Slim Fit's 27" screen is a bit too small for my liking and the LCD's blur may get the best of me....
Hmmm, vhat to do.

Why didn't you get the ST30? Don't the X5 and the St30 have similar lag measurements (st30 might be better bc it's 2011)?.... while the ST30 has a higher quality picture.

Why don't you get a 2011 panasonic plasma? they are known to have less lag than the 2012s.
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post #375 of 800 Old 07-24-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

Why didn't you get the ST30? Don't the X5 and the St30 have similar lag measurements (st30 might be better bc it's 2011)?.... while the ST30 has a higher quality picture.
Why don't you get a 2011 panasonic plasma? they are known to have less lag than the 2012s.

Well, I thought the Panasonic X5 was supposed to be 16ms(At least going buy last years X3 on HDTVTest.Uk), but apperantly that's not the case. It's not going to be my main TV anyways, so it doesn't really matter and it's good enough for what it is. i'll be getting my main 50" TV in Nov so right now i'm trying to decide and figure out which one i want to get. Where does the ST30 measure at? I don't want anything more than 16-20ms....As far as plasma's go, it seems the samsung 50" E530 plasma is my only option. Which is a bit of a bummer considering i really really wanted to get the UT based on picture quality. wouldn't it be amazing if we actually had the option to getany HDTV we wanted where we could just use some sort of devicethat would destroy all input lag? XP
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post #376 of 800 Old 07-24-2012, 08:05 PM
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Ok, so I was curious what the input lag was on my ST50 so I did manage to snap a few shots. Unfortunately, I don't have a great camera so I took multiple pictures to compare to see if they were all similar. I will upload 3 pictures of each mode. I took about 10 shots. Here are the pics:

CUSTOM MODE



417-383?

34ms





50-17?
33ms




217-183?
34ms




GAME MODE


51-35?
16ms



318-301?
17ms




16ms

Again, I am sorry I didn't have a better camera. I am guessing the 33-34ms is accurate for custom and 16-17ms for game. Hope this helps! I didn't really notice much difference in lag coming from my CRT to my ST50. I haven't spent TOO much time gaming yet though. Windows Aero was also off.
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post #377 of 800 Old 07-24-2012, 10:04 PM
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So I'm guessing you turned off the following when performing the test to get the most accurate results in game mode?

Color Management, Video Noise Reduction, setting the color matrix to 'HD' and turning off the Motion Smoother?

I actually went back to a Samsung SlimFit 27" SDTV CRT via component for gaming, coming from a Panasonic 2012 42" X5 plasma...
Nothing beats a lag free gaming experience, it's pretty damn amazing.... But it's basically for my
Wii and retro gaming, while the plasma is for movies.i'm going to have to settle with 16-20ms on a 50" the moment the Wii U Arrives.

And 16ms in gamemode for the ST50? seems like a dream. XP
yet why are people constantly complaining saying it's in the low 40's?
Maybe they have 'Motion Smoother' turned on hehe.
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post #378 of 800 Old 07-25-2012, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

So I'm guessing you turned off the following when performing the test to get the most accurate results in game mode?
Color Management, Video Noise Reduction, setting the color matrix to 'HD' and turning off the Motion Smoother?
I actually went back to a Samsung SlimFit 27" SDTV CRT via component for gaming, coming from a Panasonic 2012 42" X5 plasma...
Nothing beats a lag free gaming experience, it's pretty damn amazing.... But it's basically for my
Wii and retro gaming, while the plasma is for movies.i'm going to have to settle with 16-20ms on a 50" the moment the Wii U Arrives.
And 16ms in gamemode for the ST50? seems like a dream. XP
yet why are people constantly complaining saying it's in the low 40's?
Maybe they have 'Motion Smoother' turned on hehe.

Motion smoother is off by default and you can't change it in game mode. Also I am pretty sure I forgot to turn off color management and video noise reduction to off (they were off in custom mode though). Color matrix is SD by default and wasn't able to be changed.

I also had a 30" Samsung HD CRT Slim fit before I got this set last week. Great picture but it was just too small. I had it for 6 years and I was ready to move on.
I didn't notice much of a difference in lag with GTA 4, but I will need to try other games.
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post #379 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 12:48 AM
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Results for the Samsung E530/E550 when using HDMI/(DVI) set to 'PC Input' ? According to HDTVTest.uk, last years D550 when using HDMI '1'/(DVI) set to 'PC Input' was 16ms. When not using it, it was 31ms.
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post #380 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Motion smoother is off by default and you can't change it in game mode. Also I am pretty sure I forgot to turn off color management and video noise reduction to off (they were off in custom mode though). Color matrix is SD by default and wasn't able to be changed.
I also had a 30" Samsung HD CRT Slim fit before I got this set last week. Great picture but it was just too small. I had it for 6 years and I was ready to move on.
I didn't notice much of a difference in lag with GTA 4, but I will need to try other games.


Definitly turn off color management, because that will reduce a bit of lag as i'm sure turning off Video noise reduction will do the same. Strange how Color Matrix is locked to SD...because
i guarantee that's causing more lag....As it does on my X5.

What console, or cable are you using? Typically with HDMI it should automatically lock in to 'HD' for
the color matrix, where as component gives you the option for SD or HD, at least on my Wii. SD felt sluggish, where as HD sped things up a bit.
480i Interlaced content will also lag a lot more...But ya, my brother just gave me his 27" Slim Fit 480i CRT.
Personally, the screen size is perfect for retro gaming, but for the wii a 32" fullscreen(or 40-42" Widescreen)is more ideal, at least for me! XP And i really hope this Neoya HDMI wii adapter will lower
the input lag on my X5. Somebody was saying that a digital connectiondelivers less lag in comparison to analog...It at least holds true to basic composite/480i which runs horrible on an HDTV.
step it up to component/480p and it's much much better. 1 frame is what i want, but my X5 seems to be at around 2 at least through component.

Also testing 3D Analog controlled title such as GTAfor example isn't a good idea. try out some 2D sidescrollers that make use of the d-pad and have zippity controls ingeneral. I find Mega Man 9/10 to be thee' ultimate 2 games
to test for lag. I know what 0ms(Tube TV hehe) feels like, i know what '1' frame/16ms feels like(LK450) and i know what 2+ feels like and 2 for me just doesn't quite cut it and anything
beyond that is just unecceptable. XO
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post #381 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Definitly turn off color management, because that will reduce a bit of lag as i'm sure turning off Video noise reduction will do the same. Strange how Color Matrix is locked to SD...because
i guarantee that's causing more lag....As it does on my X5.
What console, or cable are you using? Typically with HDMI it should automatically lock in to 'HD' for
the color matrix, where as component gives you the option for SD or HD, at least on my Wii. SD felt sluggish, where as HD sped things up a bit.
480i Interlaced content will also lag a lot more...But ya, my brother just gave me his 27" Slim Fit 480i CRT.
Personally, the screen size is perfect for retro gaming, but for the wii a 32" fullscreen(or 40-42" Widescreen)is more ideal, at least for me! XP And i really hope this Neoya HDMI wii adapter will lower
the input lag on my X5. Somebody was saying that a digital connectiondelivers less lag in comparison to analog...It at least holds true to basic composite/480i which runs horrible on an HDTV.
step it up to component/480p and it's much much better. 1 frame is what i want, but my X5 seems to be at around 2 at least through component.
Also testing 3D Analog controlled title such as GTAfor example isn't a good idea. try out some 2D sidescrollers that make use of the d-pad and have zippity controls ingeneral. I find Mega Man 9/10 to be thee' ultimate 2 games
to test for lag. I know what 0ms(Tube TV hehe) feels like, i know what '1' frame/16ms feels like(LK450) and i know what 2+ feels like and 2 for me just doesn't quite cut it and anything
beyond that is just unecceptable. XO

I'm using PS3 connected via HDMI. 27" is definitely fine for retro gaming. I mainly tested GTA 4 because I was looking for games that had no HUD or an option to turn the HUD off. I'll try out New Super Mario Bros on the Wii when I get a chance.
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post #382 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Ok, so I was curious what the input lag was on my ST50 so I did manage to snap a few shots. Unfortunately, I don't have a great camera so I took multiple pictures to compare to see if they were all similar. I will upload 3 pictures of each mode. I took about 10 shots. Here are the pics:
CUSTOM MODE

417-383?
34ms


50-17?
33ms


217-183?
34ms

GAME MODE

51-35?
16ms


318-301?
17ms


16ms
Again, I am sorry I didn't have a better camera. I am guessing the 33-34ms is accurate for custom and 16-17ms for game. Hope this helps! I didn't really notice much difference in lag coming from my CRT to my ST50. I haven't spent TOO much time gaming yet though. Windows Aero was also off.

Wow, 16ms in game mode is actually pretty amazing. Not sure what the other guy was complaining about regarding his ST50 and input lag. If your test is accurate (it does look like it), 16ms is the result of only 1 frame difference. I doubt anyone can actually feel that except profession games who used to game on CRT only. 99% of the people could not notice inpuat lag at 16ms. Hell, even at 33ms the majority of people would not notice it.
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post #383 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

Wow, 16ms in game mode is actually pretty amazing. Not sure what the other guy was complaining about regarding his ST50 and input lag. If your test is accurate (it does look like it), 16ms is the result of only 1 frame difference. I doubt anyone can actually feel that except profession games who used to game on CRT only. 99% of the people could not notice inpuat lag at 16ms. Hell, even at 33ms the majority of people would not notice it.

Yeah, I wish I had a better camera that could alter the shutter speed so I could get completely accurate results. I did take about 10 shots in each mode and the rough estimate was between 16-17ms for game mode and 33-34ms with custom mode. I honestly didn't have much of a problem with the input lag and I am coming from an HD CRT. I haven't spent too much time gaming yet (still trying to avoid it for the first few hundred hours), but I did play Skate 3, Killzone 2, Journey, and GTA 4 (all games that have the option to turn off the HUD) and didn't notice anything. I don't play many 2D side scrollers or old school games. I will try New Super Mario Bros on the Wii once I break the set in some more. Almost all the games I play are analog based so I don't see it being much of an issue. I remember back in the day playing music games like Frequency and Amplitude on the PS2 which required very precise button presses. I would try those out if my PS3 was B/C with PS2 games, but it's not. I can't be bothered to plug in the PS2 to try.
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post #384 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 12:09 PM
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There's a super slight difference between 0ms and 16ms that i can notice, but the the fact is, is that HDTV's can't go
below 16ms, it's the best it can get for now. So I'm prefectly fine
with 16ms and it's absolutely wonderful incomparison to 2+ frames. Most people wouldn't even notice, unless they're used to gaming on CRT's, even then it's barely noticable based on digital controls.

33ms however, i can totaly notice a difference. When you switch back to CRT it's actually quite painfully obvious...Games are
still playable, but aren't as fluid and zippity feeling or quick and the end result is a less fun, false impression of how the game actually performs and feels, and isn't as intuitive and 'no't as satisfying as an experience.
Personally it breaks the experience for me. But 1 frame/16ms is perfecty fine! wink.gif

And what gives? why are the UT50 and ST50 getting nailed in at the low to high 40ms's based on all of these reviews? I'll be returning my X5 plasma in a few days to get the Samsung E530 51" 1080p Plasma IF it's true that HDMI1 set to PC mode delivers 16ms.
Here's a question, how is it that my X5 has 2 frames of input lag but the ST50 is 1 frame? The lower end models do a better job at delivering lower lag for the most part, something must be wrong here...But at the same time
I'm not basing my opinion through HDMI, it's through component so maybe 'that's' why i'm getting extra lag?

Ugh, i'm just tired of buying and returning TV's. XP I need to make sure that the UT50 can deliver
16-20ms(Through HDMI) and the same goes for the Samsung E530! :P Personally i'd opt for the Panny in a heart
beat, but in the end it's the input lag that will be the deal breaker.
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post #385 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

There's a super slight difference between 0ms and 16ms that i can notice, but the the fact is, is that HDTV's can't go
below 16ms, it's the best it can get for now. So I'm prefectly fine
with 16ms and it's absolutely wonderful incomparison to 2+ frames. Most people wouldn't even notice, unless they're used to gaming on CRT's, even then it's barely noticable based on digital controls.
33ms however, i can totaly notice a difference. When you switch back to CRT it's actually quite painfully obvious...Games are
still playable, but aren't as fluid and zippity feeling or quick and the end result is a less fun, false impression of how the game actually performs and feels, and isn't as intuitive and 'no't as satisfying as an experience.
Personally it breaks the experience for me. But 1 frame/16ms is perfecty fine! wink.gif
And what gives? why are the UT50 and ST50 getting nailed in at the low to high 40ms's based on all of these reviews? I'll be returning my X5 plasma in a few days to get the Samsung E530 51" 1080p Plasma IF it's true that HDMI1 set to PC mode delivers 16ms.
Here's a question, how is it that my X5 has 2 frames of input lag but the ST50 is 1 frame? The lower end models do a better job at delivering lower lag for the most part, something must be wrong here...But at the same time
I'm not basing my opinion through HDMI, it's through component so maybe 'that's' why i'm getting extra lag?
Ugh, i'm just tired of buying and returning TV's. XP I need to make sure that the UT50 can deliver
16-20ms(Through HDMI) and the same goes for the Samsung E530! :P Personally i'd opt for the Panny in a heart
beat, but in the end it's the input lag that will be the deal breaker.

So, NO HDTV's can go below 16ms? So even my 6 year old HD CRT was 16ms at best and not the 0ms you get on an SD CRT?
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post #386 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

So, NO HDTV's can go below 16ms? So even my 6 year old HD CRT was 16ms at best and not the 0ms you get on an SD CRT?

Apperantly. XP
1 frame seems to be the lowest, you never see anybody hitting
below 16ms with HDTV's.


I'm waiting for my Wii HDMI adapter to come in the mail, hopefully then i'll beable to see if input lag is either reduced through
HDMI, increased or the same.

The E530 51" is going for $749, while the UT50 is going for $999. I honestly don't feel like returning 'another' set. XP
online results are what i need to go buy before i take the plunge into either set. It's hilarious how easy it is to buy a plasma
just for movies, but for gaming it's an entire different ball game due to this annoying little input lag problem that has been going
on for years. All in need to do is find a 16ms/1 frame 1080p plasma and call it a day.

Also, do you have the 'UK' ST50? Because based on HDTVtest.uk the ST50 received 16ms in game mode. Here along with the UT50
are ranging in the low to high 40ms's....
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post #387 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Apperantly. XP
1 frame seems to be the lowest, you never see anybody hitting
below 16ms with HDTV's.
I'm waiting for my Wii HDMI adapter to come in the mail, hopefully then i'll beable to see if input lag is either reduced through
HDMI, increased or the same.
The E530 51" is going for $749, while the UT50 is going for $999. I honestly don't feel like returning 'another' set. XP
online results are what i need to go buy before i take the plunge into either set. It's hilarious how easy it is to buy a plasma
just for movies, but for gaming it's an entire different ball game due to this annoying little input lag problem that has been going
on for years. All in need to do is find a 16ms/1 frame 1080p plasma and call it a day.
Also, do you have the 'UK' ST50? Because based on HDTVtest.uk the ST50 received 16ms in game mode. Here along with the UT50
are ranging in the low to high 40ms's....

I probably would have noticed a difference if I came from an SD CRT as opposed to an HD CRT. I actually have a couple classic 2D sidescrollers on my PS3 such as Sonic 1-3. I will give those a shot after work.

Also, I have a US ST50.
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post #388 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Big news!

hdtvtest.co.uk has just put up a review of samsungs plasma tv the PS60E6500, 26/7/2012.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm?page=Performance

Heres the bit on the input lag:

"Console Gaming

Although the PS60E6500 has a dedicated “Game Mode” buried in the menu, ignore it. When a 60hz signal is input, there’s a semi-hidden “PC” mode which has even lower input lag, owed to the fact that it takes RGB video from the video game console, and sends it straight to the panel for display. Accordingly, nearly all of the video processing features are disabled. Because this mode works with RGB, [Colour] is locked out (because there’s no use for this control in RGB mode), as is [Colour Space]. You can still use 2-point Greyscale correction, though.

It’s accessed by pressing the SOURCE button, highlighting the HDMI input that your games console is connected to, pressing TOOLS, and changing the label to “PC”. In this setup, input lag was only 16ms compared to a CRT display, making the Samsung PS60E6500 one of the fastest TVs for gaming we’ve tested. Couple this with an uncanny ability to avoid image retention, coupled with the usual picture quality and motion clarity inherent to Plasma technology, and we’re left with a video gamer’s dream.

The input labelling trick works with all of the HDMI inputs, not just HDMI1 as was the case with some older Samsung plasmas. If you run all of your devices through an AV receiver into a single TV input, for convenience’s sake, it’s best to connect the console directly to one of the TV’s three HDMI inputs, to avoid the “PC mode” becoming active with non-gaming 60hz signals such as US DVDs or Blu-ray material that isn’t 24p. (You should do this anyway, in case your receiver is adding input lag)."
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post #389 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 06:27 PM
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Do you think This also applies to the Sammy E530 and E550? The E6500 is out of my price range. XP
Also, doesn't the UK model differ(or can it?) from the US model concering the input lag??

HDTV.Test.uk also awarded the ST50 '16ms' in Game Mode, but most people are complaining that it's in the
40+ms range...But ya, it says that once HDMI is set to PC INput the color is locked out, what exactly does that even mean?
That i can't fiddle with the standard color control?

If the HDMI/PC input label trick delivers 16ms of lag than that's awesome.
But if it doesn't let you have controls of Cell Light, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Hue, Sharpness
and the color temp than for me that's another big deal breaker.
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post #390 of 800 Old 07-26-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Apperantly. XP
1 frame seems to be the lowest, you never see anybody hitting
below 16ms with HDTV's.
9ms with a german Panasonic S10 plasma. tongue.gif
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