The Official Plasma Input Lag Thread. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:18 PM
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bump for st30 model ..
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated original post with Gandu's results for the ST30, thanks Gandu.
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:02 AM
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2011 Samsung PN51D7000

16ms

http://i.imgur.com/aGkpA.jpg


And it was done with an Asus g73jh-a1 laptop
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notext View Post

2011 Samsung PN51D7000

16ms

And it was done with an Asus g73jh-a1 laptop

Very nice notext, that is great news, added to OP. So this was just the stock "Relax" picture mode? You didn't even have Game Mode activated (I believe it's buried in another menu entirely)? In Relax mode, are all the user menu calibration options still available and selectable--is anything disabled or grayed out? By that I mean all the color temperatures (Cools through Warms), the basic settings (Contrast, Brightness, Color, Sharpness, Etc...), and the advanced settings (White Balance and Custom Color Management). I ask because Samsung's faster picture modes (e.g. Game and PC) have historically disabled or locked most of these menu settings.

It'd be great if you could measure the actual Game Mode option while using some the other picture modes (e.g. Movie), and confirm what settings are disabled. It's so rare for people to measure the Samsungs, looks like gamers may have a confirmed choice in manufacturers this year.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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A general question to you guys working with 3D displays, is it possible to manually engage 3D and measure it? I know there's a EU review site that claims to do this (HDTVTest.co.uk), but I can't say how as I don't own or have any experience with 3D displays. Anyone have ideas of what they may be doing? Is 2D > 3D conversion automatically engaged when you toggle 3D on with a 2D source (like your desktop). In that instance, you'd just be measuring the 2D > 3D processing/conversion which is of limited use.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:00 PM
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Im a littke confused at some of the testing, first ty all for all the testinf done, 2nd when testing vs a lcd panel what bout the input lag of the lcd vs a crt, as in the lcd lag itself. Im not too familar w the lcd panel lag vs lcd tv lag, but is it so small that it doesnt matter?
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodduska View Post

Cross posting my results from the Panasonic GT25 owners thread:

My results ranged from 0ms (more likely matching the lag of the laptops lcd instead of actually no input lag)



10ms



and 20ms



Testing was done with a Google CR-48 running Chrome OS connected to my 50" GT25 with a VGA cable in Game mode. I would have liked to test THX as well but its not available on the VGA input for some reason.

Given the fact that all of the results are an even spacing of exactly 10ms my guess is that it was somehow affected by VSYNC (there is no option to disable it on the CR-48 if it is indeed even on) Though I do think the 0ms result is rather cool regardless, it wasn't just a fluke either I had several of each result dispersed fairly evenly while I was adjusting my camera and taking shots (a Nikon D80 by the way). I'm surprised that none of these tests people are doing with an LCD display laptop actually ended up with a negative result due to the lag a lot of LCDs have, a CRT would be a much better reference.

This post make me extremly happy. Seeing as I just purchased this set and will have it here Thursday. Let the 3D gaming begin!
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goohead View Post

Im a littke confused at some of the testing, first ty all for all the testinf done, 2nd when testing vs a lcd panel what bout the input lag of the lcd vs a crt, as in the lcd lag itself. Im not too familar w the lcd panel lag vs lcd tv lag, but is it so small that it doesnt matter?

As you can see from several examples in the original post (with a CRT's and laptops testing the same display), the difference is often too small to really matter--at least for the purposes of this thread. I have no doubt there are some real stinkers out there 2 or 3 frames of lag all of their own (which is why I always denote unknown LCD panels with an asterisk), but in general, a lot of them are maybe 5-10ms off from a CRT (if that). Practically speaking, very few people have access to CRT monitors anymore, so it's just not realistic to get several different displays tested against them every single year.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:01 PM
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ty for clarification, makes me wonder y lcd TV not monitors lag so much even in vga mode and advance motion processing
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goohead View Post
ty for clarification, makes me wonder y lcd TV not monitors lag so much even in vga mode and advance motion processing
I think it's just poor design, they don't leave a clear path for VGA or Game Mode (for whatever reason) to bypass all the general image processing TV's employ. Probably a technical reason in some cases and an engineering oversight in others.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta

I think it's just poor design, they don't leave a clear path for VGA or Game Mode (for whatever reason) to bypass all the general image processing TV's employ. Probably a technical reason in some cases and an engineering oversight in others.
Maybe it's because they'd like to keep PQ at a good level? Getting rid of all the processing leads to lesser PQ?
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:29 PM
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well the manufacture that can impliment this amonst other features into their sets and market it correctly w/ # to gamers will get alot of those buyers.

like if a manufacture were to advertise 0-5ms input lag in a gaming mode, over the competition's 20's,30's,50's etc can get a pretty good gamer buyer following lol

all gamers are looking for that edge to win man, y not sell to it, never understood that
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated OP with more thorough ST30 testing by thepoohcontinum. Includes measurements for all processing with FI on strong.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:20 AM
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Orta, I found the game mode option on the 2011 Samsung Models, it has been moved to a new section. Please spread the word if it hasn't been found yet. (been gone for a few days) I'll try and provide some results on my 40D550, there won't be any images but I can at least feel it out compared to my 42px75 and my former 50c450

Menu>
System>
General>
Game Mode

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Old 03-29-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Orta, I found the game mode option on the 2011 Samsung Models, it has been moved to a new section. Please spread the word if it hasn't been found yet. (been gone for a few days) I'll try and provide some results on my 40D550, there won't be any images but I can at least feel it out compared to my 42px75 and my former 50c450

Menu>
System>
General>
Game Mode

Just purchased the 59D550C1 (C1?) I'm anxiously waiting for your results. I don't really have the means to do an accurate test, but the input lag calibration on Guitar Hero was ALOT better than the DLP I have without turning Game Mode on.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom Divine View Post


Just purchased the 59D550C1 (C1?) I'm anxiously waiting for your results. I don't really have the means to do an accurate test, but the input lag calibration on Guitar Hero was ALOT better than the DLP I have without turning Game Mode on.

Guitar hero isn't a way of testing input lag. That's the lag done by YOU. Not the tv. Also. I highly doubt it's faster then DLP. You know the reason there isn't a DLP input lag thread? Because DLP is still the fastest sets out there. There input lag is as low as it gets.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Guitar hero isn't a way of testing input lag. That's the lag done by YOU. Not the tv. Also. I highly doubt it's faster then DLP. You know the reason there isn't a DLP input lag thread? Because DLP is still the fastest sets out there. There input lag is as low as it gets.

DLP technology does not guarantee lowest input lag. I measured the Mitsubishi WD-73C9 and found it has a lag of 2-3 frames. Certainly low compared to most televisions, but definitely not the absolute lowest -- that crown belongs to CRT technology.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:05 AM
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Submitted for your approval...

I've got a Macbook Pro, a Dell U2410, and an incoming Panasonic 65VT30.

Sources indicate the U2410 has an average input lag of ~14ms in game mode, so I have a known quantity!

Methodology for your consideration:
1. Measure the MPB against the Dell (in game mode). Record the offset. Average the offset of ~10 readings. Offset + 14ms = MBP_input_lag.
2. When it arrives, attach VT30 directly to MBP. Set VT30 to various modes. For each mode, take ~10 readings. Offset + MBP_input_lag = VT30 input lag @ the mode in question.
3. Repeat with my receiver in-line, etc.

This sounds rational to me. Am I missing anything which might throw a variable into the works?

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Old 03-30-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post


DLP technology does not guarantee lowest input lag. I measured the Mitsubishi WD-73C9 and found it has a lag of 2-3 frames. Certainly low compared to most televisions, but definitely not the absolute lowest -- that crown belongs to CRT technology.

CRT doesn't have any. Pretty sure pretty much everyone knew about that. Figured there wasn't a need to include it lol.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:48 AM
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****edit****
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:36 PM
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anyone know how the lg 60pz950 does?
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:02 PM
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Hi all. Up till now I've been gaming on my trusty old CRT I bought in high school some 15 years ago. It is really starting to go on the fritz though so it's time for a fancy new HDTV. I recalled reading about input lag and HDTVs 5 years ago, and I was very surprised when starting my research this month to find that this is still a common problem among HDTVs. :-( These forums have really helped me get up to speed on the current state of HDTV technology and input lag. Thanks guys!

Anyways, the point of this post is that after reading about and seeing examples of the standard method of measuring input lag, I discovered a more precise method of measuring relative input lag. My camera, a Canon SD4000IS, has a "super slow motion" video mode, which records 320x240 video at 240fps. I imagine most cameras don't have this feature. But if you have one that does, you can use it to record, instead of photograph, the standard input lag test. At 240 fps, you are capturing one frame every 4.17 ms. Using video software that allows you to examine individual video frames, it is possible to closely compare how many frames of delay there are between your reference display, and the HDTV being tested, and then calculate the input lag as (number of frames * 4 ms). I was surprised to see that using this method my CRT was actually 4ms ahead of my laptop display when using a composite video out adapter.

I guess this isn't a whole lot of help when most cameras don't have this feature, but I will certainly be measuring using this method to measure the input lag when I get a new Panasonic plasma in the near future.

In other news, I measured a strange setup (Wii composite->USB TV tuner with composite in->Mac OS X ->eyeTV software->iMac screen) that I knew was unplayable for most games, and it came out to about 79ms of input lag, and I was shocked to find out that it is possible to find input lags even higher than this on modern HDTVs!
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:54 PM
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So what are the top 3 plasma tvs with lowest input lag?
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotskins View Post

So what are the top 3 plasma tvs with lowest input lag?

Panasonics ST/GT/VT series.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LastQuestion View Post

Panasonics ST/GT/VT series.

Thankyou Sir.

So did the 2011 panasonics make an improvement over 2010 models or are they the same?

Also. If the new samsungs are scoring 16ms , How much are the pannys scoring?
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hotskins View Post

Thankyou Sir.

So did the 2011 panasonics make an improvement over 2010 models or are they the same?

Also. If the new samsungs are scoring 16ms , How much are the pannys scoring?

Panys usually have 16-20ms input lag. A few have had 30ms but the difference between 30 and 16 is basically imperceptible. As has also already been pointed out the Samsung achieves 16ms by turning off basically all post-processing which results in a poorer PQ when compared to a pany which would have input lag that's basically just as low. It should also be noted that the THX mode with gt/vt series of panys gives true-to-life color while also maintaining that same very low input lag. You'd no doubt have to get the samsung professionally calibrated to get good color in game mode. Panys give you the best out of the box performance and picture, period.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:56 PM
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Samsung sets look just as good as Panny in game mode. You can edit the setting to make em look pretty dam sweet.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:34 PM
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The post before us was just a sign of someone not being open to competency's. Nothing more.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:18 AM
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Do you guys know anything about the Samsung PN51D490A1D?
I tested with guitar hero 3 and it came out as zero lag, but obviously it isnt the most accurate test.

Are there any Samsung PDPs you guys can recommend?
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:11 AM
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I tested a Samsung 2011 PN59D7000 using a variety of modes against a mistubishi diamond CRT and using SMTT from frito:

I took 3 pictures in each mode, and tested movie, relax, and standard w/ game mode enabled all through my receiver, i also tested standard w/ game mode with the PC directly attached to the TV to make sure the receiver was not introducing any more lag. Attached is one of the Game mode direct shots (sorry so big, only way to read the monitor)



I didnt see much change between modes, all averaged around 38-40ms
First number is the decimal on TV, second is on Monitor, 3rd is the delta

Movie + receiver
80 108 28
608 654 46
312 353 41
Average 38.3333333333333

Relax + receiver
426 473 47
970 1012 42
279 316 37
Average 42


Game + Receiver
165 199 34
113 151 38
606 649 43
Average 38.3333333333333


Game Direct
854 889 35
85 119 34
unreadable
Average 34.5
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