Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 120 - AVS Forum
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post #3571 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed4252 View Post

Keren C is clueless. Take her words with a grain of salt.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1211


Keren C and all other CSRs are not clueless. They are paid to punch in key words and read the company's official position.

It you were the head of a $75,000,000,000 per year company, you would expect your CSRs to do the same. You are wasting your time if you think that you will get company confidential information from a CSR.

Larry
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post #3572 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Keren C and all other CSRs are not clueless. They are paid to punch in key words and read the company's official position.

It you were the head of a $75,000,000,000 per year company, you would expect your CSRs to do the same. You are wasting your time if you think that you will get company confidential information from a CSR.

Larry

You should post that in your signature
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post #3573 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

I thought about it too but that theory didn't make sense to me.

If the break-in procedure caused faster aging than what had been expected by the firmware which uses the "on-hours of normal viewing" as the age metric, then it would mean the FW would be a step behind in its voltage rise schedule and should have caused cell misfirings, not MLL rise.

I also note that the patent chart suggests that that MLL rise is tied to the amount of *access* voltage relative to the minimum initializing voltage required at a given age of the cells. The absolute voltage level doesn't seem to be a big factor.


I agree, mmoh00. My educated guess is that the algorithm that controls the timing of the voltage change (whatever it may be) is a simple one and based only on 'On Time.'

Larry
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post #3574 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I don't know how many are. I will re-measure and try to get the lowest value for 0IRE. If doing so compromises other aspects and I have to make a trade-off, then I hope it will be at a decent level.

My set has 1195 hrs. If that same friend were to come over to your place when you reached say 1500 hrs, or did the SD/future Viera update and your black level doubled, you would then be just as upset. Especially when we do not know what the stabilization point is and what is going to be the black level at that point.

Just as a side thought, I would guess that since the voltage is being amped, the power consumption might go up and the black level up as well. I would have preferred if the inverse happened. However, if neither are to a major degree, I think most of us, myself incld. will be content. That said, it is embarassing to have cheaper LCD's showing comparable/better blacks.

i will surely have him revist to measure at 1500 hours. Should not be that long as I watch and play VG on this tv alot... did you measure the levels on certain modes like THX with BD content present...

also if you updated via SD and the levels increased that much, will they not send you a new unit? Because it would be awesome first and foremost for you to have this issue done with, but also to see if the new set still had those issues..

PSN: Biggsmooth
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post #3575 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I agree, mmoh00. My educated guess is that the algorithm that controls the timing of the voltage change (whatever it may be) is a simple one and based only on 'On Time.'

Larry

And the voltage wouldn't reset if the clock reset?
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post #3576 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

i will surely have him revist to measure at 1500 hours. Should not be that long as I watch and play VG on this tv alot... did you measure the levels on certain modes like THX with BD content present...

also if you updated via SD and the levels increased that much, will they not send you a new unit? Because it would be awesome first and foremost for you to have this issue done with, but also to see if the new set still had those issues..

I will try to post my re-measured THX 0IRE level tonight. I measured using the THX mode outside of the SM and using a small window pattern as stimulus. They were from the AV HD 709. There was no menu on the screen and the ambient light in the room was very low. Not pitch black but very dark.

I would rather be wrong with my black level and this could quite be possible. I just never focused on that aspect till I got a little more AVS education on calibration too

My THX Calibration
My Custom Calibration
Service menu access instructions
Panasonic 50V10, SD/THX Zip applied, Mfgr June 2009
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post #3577 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

And the voltage wouldn't reset if the clock reset?


Not if the algorithm is based on delta time -- that is, based on time intervals not absolute time.

Or if the algorithm only permits voltage changes in one direction.

Larry
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post #3578 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed4252 View Post

Keren C is clueless. Take her words with a grain of salt.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1211

+100, Karen C is a clueless IDIOT!!! I got trounced on this thread for giving her a hard time about not knowing what she is talking about so be careful what you say about her man. She is apparently widely adored across this thread. You guys can flog me all you want. This company is headed by brainless idiots and the people that they employ are no different!!! If I worked for this company, I would NEVER say that I was sure about anything I was not with the things this company is doing to people!!! LUCKILY, I was able to get my hands on a far superior display and I can take this 65" piece of s--t back where it came from. I will never buy or even USE so much as a battery from panasonic!!! If I buy something that comes with a remote, and it includes batteries, I will ship the batteries to panasonic with a drawing of a middle finger and tell them where to install them!!!
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post #3579 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:16 PM
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I would never say anything about her man......
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post #3580 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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Class action time?

These sets are advertised with a contrast ratio, and if it changes really soon I see a problem.

Have a question? AIM me: supremeMilo
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post #3581 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

you will not change my opinion or persuade me otherwise. i will continue to treat this as a very isolated issue until I am proven wrong. Everything I have seen leads me to believe its isolated(hope there is a fix for those). out of millions of 11-12g sets i have seen 6 reports of an issue with actual data. This forum is the only thing to report it in the last 2 years(since this affects 11gs as well). I have several friends with the TV and none have this issue(some plus 2000 hours). Blacks rising and blacks doubling are too different things.

And I am going to continue to view it as an issue that the extent of has not yet been determined. It might be just a small percentage, and it might be most or all of the panels. Only time and further research will reveal the full extent of the problem. Faith makes a fine breakfast, but a terrible supper. Or as they say in Russia: Trust but Verify.
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post #3582 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:25 PM
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Wow.

This thread really needs to chill out.

1) Panasonic admitted the MLL will rise which is good.
2) Large organizations move slowly. Don't expect a response quickly.
3) If they can find a workable fix, they'll release a firmware.
4) This problem will have negligible effect on the average consumer which has always been Panasonic's target audience. They will do what is in their best interest to stay profitable.
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post #3583 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

[b]It you were the head of a $75,000,000,000 per year company ...

Sorry, but I just can't help but wonder what TV brand/model this guy watches at home.

Dave
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post #3584 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by afxtwn View Post

+100, Karen C is a clueless IDIOT!!! I got trounced on this thread for giving her a hard time about not knowing what she is talking about so be careful what you say about her man. She is apparently widely adored across this thread. You guys can flog me all you want. This company is headed by brainless idiots and the people that they employ are no different!!! If I worked for this company, I would NEVER say that I was sure about anything I was not with the things this company is doing to people!!! LUCKILY, I was able to get my hands on a far superior display and I can take this 65" piece of s--t back where it came from. I will never buy or even USE so much as a battery from panasonic!!! If I buy something that comes with a remote, and it includes batteries, I will ship the batteries to panasonic with a drawing of a middle finger and tell them where to install them!!!

You were given a hard time because you acted like a pompous A$$ in a conversation with a customer service rep and then came here to post the transcript as if you should somehow get respect or laughs for it.

Your money spent should entitle you to an eventual answer, it doesn't give license to being a jerk. Of course no one can stop you from that, but don't be surprised when you're called out for it.

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Originally Posted by lunaticpuma View Post

Wow.

This thread really needs to chill out.

1) Panasonic admitted the MLL will rise which is good.
2) Large organizations move slowly. Don't expect a response quickly.
3) If they can find a workable fix, they'll release a firmware.
4) This problem will have negligible effect on the average consumer which has always been Panasonic's target audience. They will do what is in their best interest to stay profitable.

+1
Hopefully at least afxtwn won't be around the thread anymore since he bought a "far superior display" and is returning his Panasonic.
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post #3585 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by suprememilo View Post

Class action time?

These sets are advertised with a contrast ratio, and if it changes really soon I see a problem.


I'll say it again:

Panasonic advertises a CR of something like 2,000,000:1.

Assuming that your TV can produce 100 ftL which is very unlikely, that means the corresponding black level is 100/2000000 or 0.00005 ftL.

And you want to sue a very large company over marketing numbers?

Larry
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post #3586 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by larryinri View Post

i'll say it again:

Panasonic advertises a cr of something like 2,000,000:1.

Assuming that your tv can produce 100 ftl which is very unlikely, that means the corresponding black level is 100/2000000 or 0.00005 ftl.

And you want to sue a very large company over marketing numbers? :d

larry

40,000:1
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post #3587 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

40,000:1

Okay. That's a black level 0.0025 ftL for a maximum output of 100 ftL. My point still stands.

Larry
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post #3589 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:10 PM
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I've had my G10 for a little over 8 months now I have no idea how many hours I've put into it, but I've used it almost everyday from 2-3hrs some days probably more. Is there anyway I can find out exactly how many hours I've put into the set? and also I can also tell my blacks aren't as good as they used to be, how are people on this thread getting their black levels measured? I don't think my blacks have risen as high as most peoples sets, or maybe they've came back down. I will post my TV's ftl once someone tells me how I can get it measured, thanks.
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post #3590 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I'll say it again:

Panasonic advertises a CR of something like 2,000,000:1.

Assuming that your TV can produce 100 ftL which is very unlikely, that means the corresponding black level is 100/2000000 or 0.00005 ftL.

And you want to sue a very large company over marketing numbers?

Larry


HDguru just posted (and he has an in with the Panasonic people) that the S1 model and the new S2 model, have the same contrast ratios.

According to the Panasonic site; they claim that the S1 is 40,000 to 1 native, and the S2 has 2,000,000 to 1 native.

It gets kind of hard to figure it all out, when one of their own media shills can not keep track of all the BS that the manufacturer keeps throwing around.
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post #3591 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

HDguru just posted (and he has an in with the Panasonic people) that the S1 model and the new S2 model, have the same contrast ratios.

According to the Panasonic site; they claim that the S1 is 40,000 to 1 native, and the S2 has 2,000,000 to 1 native.

It gets kind hard, when one of their own media shills can not keep track of all the BS that the manufacturer keeps throwing around.


Did you call me a shill for Panasonic?

Larry
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post #3592 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chillspace View Post

I personally am glad that I had my V10 professionally calibrated only <50 hours out the box:

Before calibration: 0.0090 fL
After calibration: 0.007 fL

Now that I have some recorded values, hopefully, this will arm me with actual proof down the road if ever I run into this issue.

Hm, my understanding is that the phosphor characteristics change pretty rapidly in the first 100 hrs or so and measurements drift, hence the break-in slides to speed things up before calibrating. Not sure why you got a pro cal done with less than 50 hrs on it.

MLL should not be affected by calibration unless the pre-cal measurement was taken with the brightness setting too high. Folks, make sure your brightness value is not set too high before judging the black level. If your pro did anything more special (which is unlikely), let us know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chillspace View Post

In the meantime, I have to agree with Rpresner, this may very well be isolated affecting a small percentage of sets and I truly hope those afflicted will get a fix for it soon. For me, I hope it doesn't happen. I for one am not using break-in slides, just using the TV with my normal viewing habits. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next 500 hours, 1000 hours and 2000 hours

This whole discussion of "percentage of sets" with the black problem really depends on your definition of the "problem". If MLL doubles from 0.005 to 0.010 over 1000 hrs but with no severe IR, is that considered a problem? What if it triples to 0.015 or even 0.020? Some people would still be happy with these levels. But others won't be because they might have shelled out thousands of dollars based on rave reviews which were likely done with a fresh out-of-box set with "kuro-like" 0.005 ftL!

The measurement numbers, patent info and comments from both D-nice and Panasonic support the theory that most sets, if not all, will likely face some measurable amount of rise over relatively short time (1000 to 2000 hrs?) compared to the advertised half-brightness lifespan. IIRC, there have been only one or two measurements among many here that showed no rise (above 0.010 ftL) after substantial use. Even those may have been at slightly elevated levels compared to the initial out-of-box levels near 0.005 or 0.006 ftL for 58/65" panels and 0.008 ftL for smaller panels. IMO, the question is not whether or not we will see MLL rise, but by how much. I am cautiously optimistic that either A) the settling level for most sets won't be as bad as some seen here or B) Panasonic will eventually release a FW fix. If it's "A", they should at least take care of unlucky owners with real bad black/IR instead of stonewalling them like now.
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post #3593 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Did you call me a shill for Panasonic?

Larry

No; HDguru. He really pushes the Panasonic line. Late last year; Panasonic was using his rave reviews on their own web site. He brags about his special access to them.
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post #3594 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

No; HDguru. He really pushes the Panasonic line. Late last year; Panasonic was using his rave reviews on their own web site. He brags about his special access to them.


I agree about HDguru's predilection for Panasonic. But, even then, AFAIK there's no proof that they are paid by Panasonic. Or is there?

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post #3595 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:30 PM
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While this thread is 100% necessary and should continue, I think we all need to band together and spend our time elsewhere to fight this now!!! I have a proposal. I just wrote a review on Amazon.com as I am now the owner of a 65V10 that transformed into a 65" Vizio LCD with severe IR!!! It only took a Jan 2010 build 135 to 150 hours to develop it's "Panel Cancer". Yes we now need to dub it this as that is exactly what it is!!! Every owner of one of these infected panels needs to go online and write their own variation of this:

This is how your review will appear:


1.0 out of 5 stars BUYER BEWARE!!! DO NOT BUY PANASONIC PLASMAS!!!, February 8, 2010
By YarnSOupOFTHEDAY "SOups" (INDIANA) - See all my reviews
Panasonic is widely known as a major manufacturer of some of the most popular plasma displays available. What is not known however is that this company is EXTREMELY cruel and has no regard for the customers that pump out thousands of dollars for their sets. It is becoming more and more public as each day passes that one of the MAJOR features of this set (the only one in my opinion that would set it apart from the remaining plasma competition) it's black levels, are stripped away in an unacceptably short amount of time. Numerous long time members of enthusiasts website "AVS Forum" have posted results taken by actual light meters that their black levels had DOUBLED in as little as 200 to 300 hours of use. In addition, a feature that is a marketing gimmick to begin with also becomes even more of a non-feature when this bug in their software begins it's reign of terror on the panel. I am referring to none other that the "infinite black feature". Now you would think that this feature enables the T.V to display an infinite level of black in content viewed on the panel lending an unparalleled amount of depth, richness, and realism to the images. Um...no. All it does is drops an input with either no signal, or an image that does not require one pixel to be lit up to 0.00FTL. Which is essentially absolute black. Rest assured that if one lowly little pixel lights up, your infinite black 0.00FTL turns into 0.08FTL, which is not bad at all, but by no means infinite black. Hold on it gets better. This feature as useless as it is, is only available in the most useless of all AV selections, that's right folks, Vivid. Try this on Custom, Game, Standard, or even the mighty (sorry I just threw up a little in my mouth) THX mode, and it's a no go. Well, when the panel "Cancer" begins, one of the symptoms is that you may loose this wonderful feature. Essentially you will have an LCD with none of the perks of an LCD. The once rich deep picture becomes a washed out, uninspiring mess to look at. I hoped that I might be spared of this disease but as soon as I hit around 130 hours, my lush beautiful Panasonic plasma transformed into a 65" LCD that only gets half as bright as an LCD and none of the pop either. Not to mention I get a free side order of severe image retention to go along with it. There is no way Panasonic does not know exactly what is causing this. The "leaders" of this company could have all of the people that know every inner working of this T.V assembled in a room within a day if they wanted (which no doubt they did) and have the issue explained to them as this is a necessary "job" for every display to do. However, Panasonic is the only plasma that compromises it's black levels to do so. Voltages that charge the display's pixels need to be adjusted to compensate for wear on the materials in the panel. Panasonic basically bought themselves a stretch Hummer made of platinum to compensate for the little winky in it's pants. Basically I am saying that the voltage increases are way overcompensated. Sorry, I can be a little evil when I am angry. Anyway, this is the statement that Panasonic has released to C-Net.
"Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs deliver exceptional picture performance throughout the lifetime of these products. Various elements and material characteristics of all electronic displays change with use over time. In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours.

As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value. After several years of typical use, the internal material characteristics will stabilize and no additional automatic voltage adjustments are required. The Black Level at this stabilized point will yield excellent picture performance.

The newest Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an improved automatic control which applies the voltage adjustments in smaller increments. This results in a more gradual change in the Black Level over time.
Need I say more. Additionally Panasonic CSRs have told many customers that the investigation is complete and there will be no fix because there is no problem. Many chats on Panasonic's concierge chat feature were posted on the AVS Forum where they contradict themselves in the same chat over, and over again. Please google this issue and you will never buy ANYTHING with a Panasonic badge of shame on it again.

Go on Bestbuy.com and do it, Amazon and do it, anywhere that will let you write a review, copy, paste it and come out with guns a blazin!!! Think of how many plasma consumers make online purchases. Think of how many check customer reviews. Do you think Panasonic checks these retailer's websites to see how people think of their crappy products. I'd be willing to bet my baby makers that they do. So let this be the beginning of the end of Panasonic's unacceptable treatment to it's most valued customers. Let us strike a blow that will resonate even through the headquarters of Samsung, LG, and what the heck, even the all mighty VIZIO!!! COMINIYEAHAAA!!!!!!
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post #3596 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by afxtwn View Post

While this thread is 100% necessary and should continue, I think we all need to band together and spend our time elsewhere to fight this now!!! I have a proposal. I just wrote a review on Amazon.com as I am now the owner of a 65V10 that transformed into a 65" Vizio LCD with severe IR!!! It only took a Jan 2010 build 135 to 150 hours to develop it's "Panel Cancer". Yes we now need to dub it this as that is exactly what it is!!! Every owner of one of these infected panels needs to go online and write their own variation of this:

This is how your review will appear:


1.0 out of 5 stars BUYER BEWARE!!! DO NOT BUY PANASONIC PLASMAS!!!, February 8, 2010
By YarnSOupOFTHEDAY "SOups" (INDIANA) - See all my reviews
Panasonic is widely known as a major manufacturer of some of the most popular plasma displays available. What is not known however is that this company is EXTREMELY cruel and has no regard for the customers that pump out thousands of dollars for their sets. It is becoming more and more public as each day passes that one of the MAJOR features of this set (the only one in my opinion that would set it apart from the remaining plasma competition) it's black levels, are stripped away in an unacceptably short amount of time. Numerous long time members of enthusiasts website "AVS Forum" have posted results taken by actual light meters that their black levels had DOUBLED in as little as 200 to 300 hours of use. In addition, a feature that is a marketing gimmick to begin with also becomes even more of a non-feature when this bug in their software begins it's reign of terror on the panel. I am referring to none other that the "infinite black feature". Now you would think that this feature enables the T.V to display an infinite level of black in content viewed on the panel lending an unparalleled amount of depth, richness, and realism to the images. Um...no. All it does is drops an input with either no signal, or an image that does not require one pixel to be lit up to 0.00FTL. Which is essentially absolute black. Rest assured that if one lowly little pixel lights up, your infinite black 0.00FTL turns into 0.08FTL, which is not bad at all, but by no means infinite black. Hold on it gets better. This feature as useless as it is, is only available in the most useless of all AV selections, that's right folks, Vivid. Try this on Custom, Game, Standard, or even the mighty (sorry I just threw up a little in my mouth) THX mode, and it's a no go. Well, when the panel "Cancer" begins, one of the symptoms is that you may loose this wonderful feature. Essentially you will have an LCD with none of the perks of an LCD. The once rich deep picture becomes a washed out, uninspiring mess to look at. I hoped that I might be spared of this disease but as soon as I hit around 130 hours, my lush beautiful Panasonic plasma transformed into a 65" LCD that only gets half as bright as an LCD and none of the pop either. Not to mention I get a free side order of severe image retention to go along with it. There is no way Panasonic does not know exactly what is causing this. The "leaders" of this company could have all of the people that know every inner working of this T.V assembled in a room within a day if they wanted (which no doubt they did) and have the issue explained to them as this is a necessary "job" for every display to do. However, Panasonic is the only plasma that compromises it's black levels to do so. Voltages that charge the display's pixels need to be adjusted to compensate for wear on the materials in the panel. Panasonic basically bought themselves a stretch Hummer made of platinum to compensate for the little winky in it's pants. Basically I am saying that the voltage increases are way overcompensated. Sorry, I can be a little evil when I am angry. Anyway, this is the statement that Panasonic has released to C-Net.
"Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs deliver exceptional picture performance throughout the lifetime of these products. Various elements and material characteristics of all electronic displays change with use over time. In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours.

As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value. After several years of typical use, the internal material characteristics will stabilize and no additional automatic voltage adjustments are required. The Black Level at this stabilized point will yield excellent picture performance.

The newest Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an improved automatic control which applies the voltage adjustments in smaller increments. This results in a more gradual change in the Black Level over time.
Need I say more. Additionally Panasonic CSRs have told many customers that the investigation is complete and there will be no fix because there is no problem. Many chats on Panasonic's concierge chat feature were posted on the AVS Forum where they contradict themselves in the same chat over, and over again. Please google this issue and you will never buy ANYTHING with a Panasonic badge of shame on it again.

Go on Bestbuy.com and do it, Amazon and do it, anywhere that will let you write a review, copy, paste it and come out with guns a blazin!!! Think of how many plasma consumers make online purchases. Think of how many check customer reviews. Do you think Panasonic checks these retailer's websites to see how people think of their crappy products. I'd be willing to bet my baby makers that they do. So let this be the beginning of the end of Panasonic's unacceptable treatment to it's most valued customers. Let us strike a blow that will resonate even through the headquarters of Samsung, LG, and what the heck, even the all mighty VIZIO!!! COMINIYEAHAAA!!!!!!

I am sorry, but you might want to consider getting some help for yourself. You expect someone to take your review seriously? Come on!




Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100, Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
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post #3597 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:47 PM
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3) If they can find a workable fix, they'll release a firmware.

The problem is that this is not necessarily true. They can just say oh this is fixed on newer models and expect us all to go buy new TVs.

Have a question? AIM me: supremeMilo
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post #3598 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:48 PM
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at afxtwn. At least his "review" didn't include anything about food.
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post #3599 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 08:51 PM
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Which is precisely what they told us to do in a very nicely written way.

Forget about a fix, it ain't comin'...

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post #3600 of 11473 Old 02-08-2010, 09:08 PM
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about my case regarding the black level rise and the increase of IR since this has happened. as i spoke to him i could tell he was pretty po'ed, but so was i. i asked him if panasonic was still investigating the black level rise because i read the response they had given to cnet and he stated that is the statement for now and it could change. he stated they are still investigating the claim. i stated that i was concerned about the black levels rising ,but more about the IR and how it seems to be getting worse and lasting longer. i told him it seems to take much longer then even the first few hundred hours i had the tv for it to go away(i don't want burn in). he then told me that panasonic takes these claims very serious and they will investigate this and he assured me that the people/owners that are having these claims will be notified when the investigation is complete. i then asked him why they made the statement that this is normal and he stated that until they investigate is complete that is there stand. he then went on to tell me that i didn't need to contact them anymore in regards to this as they have it documented the times i have called and i stated good and so do i. he then stated he hoped he answered all my questions and asked to just give them time to investigate. i said that is fine i am just made that i paid good money for this plasma tv specifically for the black levels and in less then a year they are no better or worse then my lcd i use for my computer. i also stated that i had to have a board replaced in the first few months as the tv turned off and would not turn back on. he stated he understood and stated something like panasonic stands behind there products and just give them time to investigate. he stated continue to use the scroll bar for the IR to reduce or eliminate it and he thanked me for being a panasonic customer. all in all i was glad to hear they are supposedly still investigating the issue ,but not happy that they don't think my IR has anything to do with the rising black levels which i do. all i want is a fix or a replacement, time will tell
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