Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 01:09 PM
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"But lets remember this is analog too...." Analog, yes sort of...

Like the gases in the panel's cells being partially ionized and forming a plasma which emits photons in accord with quantum mechanics. No firmware involved.

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post #362 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

"But lets remember this is analog too...." Analog, yes sort of...

Like the gases in the panel's cells being partially ionized and forming a plasma which emits photons in accord with quantum mechanics. No firmware involved.

Larry

Your pretty stubbon with this "not a firmware issue" mantra, like you have "inside information" that it's something else, I am intereseted to know what that something else is, if you know, and how does it always reproduce itself after the 300 hour mark from new or from a full factory reset?

I am hoping it is a firmware bug, mainly cuz it will be an easy fix, but also so I can say I told you so.
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post #363 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

here some pics

That's how the black levels on my G10 look like. I will try and post pictures later but i know they won't prove anything to all of the people who think everyone in this thread besides Orta has eye problems.
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post #364 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmichael View Post

Your pretty stubbon with this "not a firmware issue" mantra, like you have "inside information" that it's something else, I am intereseted to know what that something else is, if you know, and how does it always reproduce itself after the 300 hour mark from new or from a full factory reset?

I am hoping it is a firmware bug, mainly cuz it will be an easy fix, but also so I can say I told you so.

You totally misunderstand. My only point is that problems in a TV do not have to be software/firmware related. Like your automobile -- it needs computers to run but it's the ignition of a fuel that ultimately makes it move.

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post #365 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 05:29 PM
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that means the panels are defective and panasonic needs to replace the tvs . I don't think that will happen. My case was forwarded to the panasonic field technician. Will see what he thinks. Hope he is knows what i am talking about.
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post #366 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 05:38 PM
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Thats quite a leap of logic.

from:
"problems in a TV do not have to be software/firmware related"

to:
"that means the panels are defective and panasonic needs to replace the tvs"


What about drifting voltage levels, changing waveforms, bad boards, bad components, etc?

Larry
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post #367 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 05:54 PM
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Ill say one thing,this thread has kept me away from the new pannys and might just be the reason I take a serious look at the samsung 8500 LED

Matt
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post #368 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 06:11 PM
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I was considering a 54G10 until I saw this thread. I think I'll wait for the 2010 models.
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post #369 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Thats quite a leap of logic.

from:
"problems in a TV do not have to be software/firmware related"

to:
"that means the panels are defective and panasonic needs to replace the tvs"


What about drifting voltage levels, changing waveforms, bad boards, bad components, etc?

Larry

youre right larryInRI lets close the thread . Its up to panasonic what are going to do but i still think its a software related issue. or....... maybe just bad sets of panels. Cheap components , cheap everything , cheap price... i paid 899 for mine so i got what i paid for
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post #370 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 07:37 PM
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I'm with PENDRAGOON,on this one.If you look at my post history,I too,had my g10 serviced.The tech replaced my a board and panel.After that,I immediately noticed that my blacks were back to "normal".So either the change in my panel or a board fixed my issue with the rise in blacks.
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post #371 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 07:47 PM
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I just did with my X1 what donnymac51 did on his V10 and found the same result. Donny said:

"...if you put a black or 0% stimulus window on vivid mode it is jet black and reads .000. All other picture modes on my set are grayish and range from .012 up to .024. ..."
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post17391653


My black reading has been fairly constant in the 0.016 to 0.019 ftL range for the three calibration readings that I have taken on my 50X1with an i1 2LT. Unfortunately, I did not take any measurements before my set reached a few hundred hours so I don't know if it was significantly blacker out-of-the-box.

The important thing is that, as donny found, in Vivid mode the screen is capable of producing pure black.

The X1, however, is the entry level model and I can forgive certain shortcomings with it. Probably, I would feel differently if I bought the 50% more expensive G10 or the twice as expensive V10.

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post #372 of 11217 Old 10-23-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmafan09 View Post

I'm with PENDRAGOON,on this one.If you look at my post history,I too,had my g10 serviced.The tech replaced my a board and panel.After that,I immediately noticed that my blacks were back to "normal".So either the change in my panel or a board fixed my issue with the rise in blacks.

and that resolved your issue permanently?
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post #373 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 05:01 PM
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is there any way to measure the black level without a meter ? will SM offer that option?
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post #374 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

is there any way to measure the black level without a meter ? will SM offer that option?

No.

-Greg
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post #375 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 06:23 PM
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did anyone noticed the glowing blacks on samsung too?
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post #376 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 06:40 PM
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Is this issue bad enough for any of you to wish that you had purchased an alternate unit - say the S1 or another brand?

I have ordered a G10 and I am questioning my decision in light of this thread.
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post #377 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 06:52 PM
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Could this be the whole 2009 panny line?

Matt
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post #378 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. grieves View Post

Is this issue bad enough for any of you to wish that you had purchased an alternate unit - say the S1 or another brand?

I have ordered a G10 and I am questioning my decision in light of this thread.

There is reports of an S1 owner and V10 owner who have experienced this issue, it does not only effect the G10 line.
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post #379 of 11217 Old 10-24-2009, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep the original post updated with all the happenings in here, including links to all suspected cases (S1's and V10's included).
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post #380 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speck9 View Post

and that resolved your issue permanently?

No,after 250-350 hours,guess what happened?My blacks increased again...
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post #381 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 08:51 AM
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It was a toss up for me between the 54v10 or the sammy 8500 LED.Looks like my decision was just made for me.

Matt
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post #382 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I just did with my X1 what donnymac51 did on his V10 and found the same result. Donny said:

"...if you put a black or 0% stimulus window on vivid mode it is jet black and reads .000. All other picture modes on my set are grayish and range from .012 up to .024. ..."
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post17391653


My black reading has been fairly constant in the 0.016 to 0.019 ftL range for the three calibration readings that I have taken on my 50X1with an i1 2LT. Unfortunately, I did not take any measurements before my set reached a few hundred hours so I don't know if it was significantly blacker out-of-the-box.

The important thing is that, as donny found, in Vivid mode the screen is capable of producing pure black.

The X1, however, is the entry level model and I can forgive certain shortcomings with it. Probably, I would feel differently if I bought the 50% more expensive G10 or the twice as expensive V10.

Larry

If it is true that vivid mode will retain the better black levels, is it possible to calibrate the crappiness out of the vivid mode and make it look closer to standard/custom before the increase?

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post #383 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Tom Huffman measured 0.007 ftL with a new 85U, 0.009 after about 50 hours use, and 0.018 ftL after 1962 hours.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11905

Larry


It was told to me, by another very respected calibrator, that the meter Tom was using was not accurate that low and he was mistaken (decided in a discussion between he and Tom). So take this 85u 009 to 018 discussion with a grain of salt.

My 85u blacks are great, and the tv has been calibrated once and touched up once.

I was looking at a V10, but this stuff worries me a bit, as it seems more people are seeing it.

Makes a 58" Sammy plasma appealing.
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post #384 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

If it is true that vivid mode will retain the better black levels, is it possible to calibrate the crappiness out of the vivid mode and make it look closer to standard/custom before the increase?

Vivid mode just completely shuts off the panel when there is an all black screen--Panasonic call this feature "Infinite Black". If so much as 1 pixel is lit, the black levels are the same as all the other modes, so it's not even worth mentioning. FWIW, it's also impossible to calibrate the crappiness out of Vivid.
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post #385 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 01:09 PM
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vivid mode wont do nothing to my px80u .... i can can turn everything down to zero in vivid mode and the panel still glows. I even try the SM... cut and drives all the way down ... sub-brightness decreased and still GLOWS... it makes me crazy. The crazy thing is that last night i turn off my tv and was freaking glowing but not like was on but still. I think was IR !!! I hope panasonic is aware of this issue * did anyone noticed the green pixels with no input... looks like green dots
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post #386 of 11217 Old 10-25-2009, 09:21 PM
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Hi guys,

Having a 50G10 since end of July, i actually see an increase in black... Im calling Pany tomorrow.
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post #387 of 11217 Old 10-26-2009, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin_Per View Post

Hi guys,

Having a 50G10 since end of July, i actually see an increase in black... Im calling Pany tomorrow.

increase or decrease?? i wouldn't call Panasonic if my blacks gets darker
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post #388 of 11217 Old 10-26-2009, 06:08 AM
 
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Have any of you actually thrown in the DVE Blu-ray and checked you before and after brightness adjustment, or is this all pure speculation?

I still find this whole thing hard to believe.
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post #389 of 11217 Old 10-26-2009, 06:38 AM
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Any idea how many hours before to notice the black level increase? Is there a consensus? I am close to 300 hours.
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post #390 of 11217 Old 10-26-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Have any of you actually thrown in the DVE Blu-ray and checked you before and after brightness adjustment, or is this all pure speculation?

I still find this whole thing hard to believe.

DVE for what? didn't you read that with everything down to 0 the black levels still glows
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