Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 191 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5701 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Member
 
Snorfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ugh. And I thought I had done a good job with research. Well, I had, and then I made up my mind late January and didn't figure I needed to look at cnet/forums/etc for teh first couple weeks of February. And now the 46" G10 is arriving in the mail from newegg later this afternoon. And if I return it I've got to eat a 15% restocking fee (and shipping as well I'm guessing). Not sure what other plasma I'd even get because I don't think Samsung makes a 46". Wait for the 2010 Panasonic G25 models? The last thing I want to do is reward Panasonic for this.

I'm just holding out a small sliver of hope that the "fix" mentioned in eurocroc's email from support materializes, though like him I'm not optimistic.
Snorfle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5702 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:30 AM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

I just called panny and was told the same BL deal...
"as the pannel ages, the black level will increase to provide a nice bright picture, bla bla bla."

I told him that Panny Advertises these tvs as having infinate black and this is false advertising on pannys part. He studdered for a while and then I asked if there was someone higher up I could talk to. He said a supervisor will call me back in 1-3 days. I'm not holding my breath.

He also said that I couldn't compare my BL because I have more hours than other people have. I am assuming this. I told him that my BL continues to increase and is now the highest reported at 0.034ftl.

Attached is my HCFR file.

Same response I got.. no call yet... calling them again tomorrow.
killayaw is offline  
post #5703 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
donnymac51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

THX Certified Video Calibrator
Calibrating Florida and Georgia
donnymac51 is offline  
post #5704 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:33 AM
Member
 
phlevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony GT View Post

Having just started looking for a new plasma display I'm confused by one thing. Why would a company design a TV so that the black levels would increase over time? That makes no sense to me. Sorry if this was addressed in the previous 192 pages of this thread.

I'll try to summarize, the higher black levels are due to voltage adjustments for aging in an effort to assure that all the cells (pixels) are firing when appropriate. It seems the rising black level was of secondary concern to the designers/engineers.

I have no idea what is different about the Panasonic plasma design that needs this degree of voltage change with the resulting higher black level and how it is different from Pioneer, Samsung, etc which are not showing this same issue.

If I'm over simplifying or making a wrong assumption, I'm sure someone will correct me.
phlevin is offline  
post #5705 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

I think a more precise analogy would be a change in mileage of about 1 mpg. For most people it would never be noticed, but for a few it could be significant.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lcaillo is offline  
post #5706 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Rick46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Let's skip the calls to Panasonic and start calling the vedors (Best Buy, Sears, Internet vendors) and complain. They have a lot more clout than we do.
Rick46 is offline  
post #5707 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am usually not a fan of lawsuits like this, but I hope that it goes somewhere. I would love to see the discovery and get some real facts from Panasonic. My guess is that it will settle up before that ever happens.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lcaillo is offline  
post #5708 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
jackal2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

How the hell did you find that. Is there a link leading up to that asking for people to come forward? I need to contact them!!!

TC-P50V10 Build Date: April 2009
A-Board replaced on 1/4/2010 w/1.24, updated to 1.28.
Current 0% IRE: 0.034FtL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Putting the 50V10 downstairs. Bought a new Elite 101FD
jackal2001 is offline  
post #5709 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
sdolen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

Looks like someone got the ball rolling if this is real.

http://www.fglawgroup.com/files/NCHFINalPR.pdf

Shane, are you here on AVS?

Looks pretty real, sign me up! I wonder if it will get anywhere......
sdolen is offline  
post #5710 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
donnymac51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

How the hell did you find that. Is there a link leading up to that asking for people to come forward? I need to contact them!!!

I googled "panasonic black level lawsuit" for shi** and grins and it came up. They just need to man up and admit the problem and fix it. This negative publicity is not doing them any good.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

THX Certified Video Calibrator
Calibrating Florida and Georgia
donnymac51 is offline  
post #5711 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
defdog99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 30
so lets assume the extreme...

Someone who watches 4:3 shows ONLY with sidebars...

so if Panasonic changed the logic to stress/work "only the signal portions of the screen"... aka make the sidebars as black as possible.

After a few months of this configuration, you could theoretically have 2 giant sidebars that have different plasma characteristics than the 4:3 portion...

So I can understand why Panasonic has to rise the blacks along the sidebars...

But not to the extent some of these photos on this thread show... BRIGHT!
defdog99 is offline  
post #5712 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
donnymac51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Here's another one who wants to help.

http://www.lemonlawclaims.com/Panaso...s%20Action.htm


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

THX Certified Video Calibrator
Calibrating Florida and Georgia
donnymac51 is offline  
post #5713 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:53 AM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wonder how much longer Panasonic will keep their head in the sand...
killayaw is offline  
post #5714 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 557
I may no longer have a Panny that would fit these lawsuits, but I fully support any suit that comes up against them.

If Panasonic does fix this then I will gladly buy one of them, until then, I will not buy a single Panasonic product at all.

PSN - Pendragoongp
NNID - Pendragoon
Include your AVS username in the friend request.
PENDRAG0ON is offline  
post #5715 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't think that their head is in the sand at all. I think it is a matter of both arrogance regarding field experience and an aversion to admitting mistakes. Both are very typical of most manufacturers.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lcaillo is offline  
post #5716 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 11:59 AM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
While you might be right, I'm not entirely sure about that. They admitted to the THX issue, and fixed it (although it took some time). I have to think it's a matter of cost - that downplaying the issue is somehow more cost effective than a fix/repair. Perhaps class action threats will change that perspective?

Edit: In addition, I'm sure Pansonic considers the 2009 models dead and not worth pursuing. My guess is that all their developers and engineers are working on the 2011 models. Not cost effective to fool with the 09s.
killayaw is offline  
post #5717 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,370
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 633 Post(s)
Liked: 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

so lets assume the extreme...

Someone who watches 4:3 shows ONLY with sidebars...

so if Panasonic changed the logic to stress/work "only the signal portions of the screen"... aka make the sidebars as black as possible.

After a few months of this configuration, you could theoretically have 2 giant sidebars that have different plasma characteristics than the 4:3 portion...

So I can understand why Panasonic has to rise the blacks along the sidebars...

But not to the extent some of these photos on this thread show... BRIGHT!

this has absolutely nothing to do with avoiding "burn in". that's totally irrelevant....

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
batpig is online now  
post #5718 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:08 PM
Member
 
phlevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by killayaw View Post

While you might be right, I'm not entirely sure about that. They admitted to the THX issue, and fixed it (although it took some time). I have to think it's a matter of cost - that downplaying the issue is somehow more cost effective than a fix/repair. Perhaps class action threats will change that perspective?

Edit: In addition, I'm sure Pansonic considers the 2009 models dead and not worth pursuing. My guess is that all their developers and engineers are working on the 2011 models. Not cost effective to fool with the 09s.

Do we even know if this can be addressed with just firmware or if it requires hardware changes as well?
phlevin is offline  
post #5719 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:17 PM
Senior Member
 
jackal2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just sent an email via online web form to Richard Golomb, Golomb & Honik, P.C., of Philadelphia. He was the one stated in that PDF as being involved with this case. He is closest to me in PA.

TC-P50V10 Build Date: April 2009
A-Board replaced on 1/4/2010 w/1.24, updated to 1.28.
Current 0% IRE: 0.034FtL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Putting the 50V10 downstairs. Bought a new Elite 101FD
jackal2001 is offline  
post #5720 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:31 PM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlevin View Post

Do we even know if this can be addressed with just firmware or if it requires hardware changes as well?

No idea. I have no tech knowledge on this issue outside what has already been discussed in this thread.

I'll guess that the fix (firmware or hardware replacement) isn't easy or cheap. Even a simple firmware fix is likely to go through a lengthly QA QC process that burns man hours.
killayaw is offline  
post #5721 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:32 PM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

I just sent an email via online web form to Richard Golomb, Golomb & Honik, P.C., of Philadelphia. He was the one stated in that PDF as being involved with this case. He is closest to me in PA.

Keep us updated!
killayaw is offline  
post #5722 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
thebigdaddye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: dayton, ohio
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by killayaw View Post

No idea. I have no tech knowledge on this issue outside what has already been discussed in this thread.

I'll guess that the fix (firmware or hardware replacement) isn't easy or cheap. Even a simple firmware fix is likely to go through a lengthly QA QC process that burns man hours.

i am pretty sure D-NICE has said it's a hardware issue.
thebigdaddye is offline  
post #5723 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Member
 
killayaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the info. Either way, I don't think Panasonic will fix it. That's why I'm still pushing for a refund.
killayaw is offline  
post #5724 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Member
 
bendergender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Capital Federal, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I upgrade to 1.29, for Viera Cast, someone knows this update fix, or does?
bendergender is offline  
post #5725 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryInRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in RI
Posts: 5,265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Some junior engineer probably took some data out of context and thought he was doing something that would have a benefit to the user. Classic error of engineering detached from field experience is my guess.


So very true. Plus a lack of in-house testing to verify the engineering.

Larry
LarryInRI is offline  
post #5726 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:06 PM
Member
 
Snorfle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bendergender, as explained upthread, this is just a VieraCast update for adding Twitter and so forth.

So at this point it really sounds like I should just take the 15% restocking fee hit before my 30 days are up? Does anyone know if Samsung has a 46" plasma? The only other choice is to get the 46" G25 and cross my fingers.
Snorfle is offline  
post #5727 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:09 PM
Newbie
 
Faust3D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendergender View Post

I upgrade to 1.29, for Viera Cast, someone knows this update fix, or does?

Where is that 1.29? Is it only available on VieraCast? All I see on US webpage is 1.28 for my G10.
Faust3D is offline  
post #5728 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Meteor|WAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust3D View Post

Where is that 1.29? Is it only available on VieraCast? All I see on US webpage is 1.28 for my G10.

You have to connect your tv to the net via ethernet cable.

TC-P46G10 build date May 2009

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Meteor|WAR is online now  
post #5729 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:20 PM
Member
 
The.Highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Vieracast has 1.29 up now. It's the peaks update.

Loving the Blu-Revolution
The.Highlander is offline  
post #5730 of 11261 Old 03-01-2010, 01:25 PM
Newbie
 
Chefypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Or any other type of in-depth calibration?
Would that affect the outcome of the black levels over time?
Chefypants is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off