Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 214 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 102Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Member
 
edowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by belfert View Post

This is exactly what I plan to do. I am just going to hold off on buying an HDTV for a few more years and see what develops. Hopefully prices will continue to drop.

Crimney...I remember having this conversation with a friend of mine many years ago on computers. You have to step into the water at some point, or you'll never purchase if you are waiting for the "magical year". If it's this issue this year with panasonic, or a few years from now it will be the 3D isn't popping how it should be. Not to diminish the black issue at all, it's very serious and detrimental to panasonic. Prices won't continue to drop because they will have new features that you will need to pay for the r&D ...If you are ready to buy, I say pick the best based on the research and what's in the market at the time. Just stay away from panasonic! HA!
edowdy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
eaayoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabigwaxy View Post

My advice: Don't buy an HDTV. If you've sat on your hands this long and are already pissed about the performance of a TV you don't own, you will be disappointed no matter what you buy. Take up Canasata perhaps.

You can't be serious.., HDTV on a current Panasonic tv easily beats SDTV!

Watch tv with lights on and you may not even notice the rising blacks.
eaayoung is offline  
Old 03-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Member
 
t1337Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 10
People are actually getting store credit and refunds?
t1337Dude is offline  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:42 PM
CO1
Advanced Member
 
CO1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoh00 View Post

Without bias light, my 65S1 with 0.006 ftL MLL looks great. With bias light? It's simply awesome. It's difficult to notice the movie bars and my bias light is not even all that bright. I have the 13W lamp and 90% of it is covered to reduce its output.

Yup, I'm going to savor the good times while it lasts! I even told my wife not to leave the TV on unnecessarily like she sometimes does while cooking. lol

I think there will be two winners out this mess: X-Rite and CinemaQuest!

Yeah I must say with my bias light the black bars look almost as good as when I first got the TV...I can only imagine how good yours looks. Maybe Panasonic should include a CinemaQuest coupon with their TV's.
CO1 is offline  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Orta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,574
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edowdy View Post

Crimney...I remember having this conversation with a friend of mine many years ago on computers. You have to step into the water at some point, or you'll never purchase if you are waiting for the "magical year". If it's this issue this year with panasonic, or a few years from now it will be the 3D isn't popping how it should be. Not to diminish the black issue at all, it's very serious and detrimental to panasonic. Prices won't continue to drop because they will have new features that you will need to pay for the r&D ...If you are ready to buy, I say pick the best based on the research and what's in the market at the time. Just stay away from panasonic! HA!

I don't know, there are occasionally times close to "magical years"--those featuring rare models that represent significant leaps forward and maintain a PQ advantage for several years. Some good examples IMO would be the XBR910's (IIRC, the first Super Fine Pitch CRT's), the 8G Kuros (which are still a standard in MLL and CR's), and the JVC RS1 projector. These are displays that maintained better PQ than all near-tier competitors for multiple years and, in their times, were only really surpassed by their direct successors. Realistically, I think these are the best situations you can "hold out for".
Orta is offline  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:48 PM
CO1
Advanced Member
 
CO1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

Panasonic took the more cost effective route and sold millions of sets making 90% of the people loving their TV (excluding enthusiasts here who thought they will get Kuro blacks for an LG price).

I never read any reviews, professional or user, which said Kuro blacks for an LG price. The black levels were reported to be close to the Kuros with better shadow detail and sure enough they were until the rise. BTW my Panasonic set me back $3500 which is hardly what I consider cheap. The reality is upon viewing an enthusiast would be unlikely to make such an idiotic assumption and if my TV out of the box looked like it does now I wouldn't have bought it. I just don't get it...Some of us had to deal with the THX issue followed by the BL rise and now we have to deal with people like you! I'd really like to know what your motivation was for posting this other than to insult forum members or was that the only reason?
CO1 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markabuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I'm sure its been previously asked but I can't find it on here

are we sure this process doesn't happen on othe rmanufacturer's Plasmas ? ie is it something inherent to Plasmas ?

my PF11UK Pana blacks look as good as when I first owned it
markabuckley is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:18 AM
Member
 
mironto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by luciano1213 View Post

There is a huge difference between the Axe commercials and the claims made by Panasonic.Then you toss in some stellar reviews from trusted sources and you have what I consider 100% believability by educated and informed consumers.Surely you don't think that a humorous commercial and technical specs can and should be compared.You do watch the Super Bowl ads ?

That was just an example. Watch any commercial block and I am sure you can come up with your own. Just out of my head... washing powders (how comes that the advertised one is soooo much better than "regular washing powder"?), mascaras that make your eyelashes 3x longer, or anti-wrinke creams. It would be interesting to see an average amount of money spent on a TV and anti-wrinkle cosmetics in a household. I see it as highly plausible that a woman spends in 5 years more on cosmetics compared to a cost of plasma TV.

I did not want to start off topic debate. Just wanted to point out there is so much false advertising nowadays I barely see lawsuit getting us anywhere closer to better PQ.

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
mironto is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:54 AM
Member
 
JC74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick46 View Post

I have a 50" G15 with 2000+ hrs and I have had the mentioned black levels rising. My bars are now a very dark gray and the content on the screen that shows black is "bezel black".

I have a 42" G15 and I thought the same thing at first. But upon further inspection, I don't think content on the screen is any darker than the bars. It's just surrounded by a brighter image so it appears darker, whereas with the bars you see a huge area against the bezel so it appears lighter.
JC74 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:55 AM
Senior Member
 
unap16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

That was just an example. Watch any commercial block and I am sure you can come up with your own. Just out of my head... washing powders (how comes that the advertised one is soooo much better than "regular washing powder"?), mascaras that make your eyelashes 3x longer, or anti-wrinke creams. It would be interesting to see an average amount of money spent on a TV and anti-wrinkle cosmetics in a household. I see it as highly plausible that a woman spends in 5 years more on cosmetics compared to a cost of plasma TV.

I did not want to start off topic debate. Just wanted to point out there is so much false advertising nowadays I barely see lawsuit getting us anywhere closer to better PQ.

You should stop. Your examples are going from bad to worse since you are failing to understand the basic reason why people are upset with the panel.

Coming soon...
unap16 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:15 AM
Newbie
 
danh515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have been following this thread since I bought my 54G10 in January. I considered returning it but could not find anything comparable at the price. I have probaly 250 -300hrs so I probably have not been hit yet. i hope Panasonic fixes the issue but I doubt they will. To my point... I was at BB and saw 5 - 2009's on display ( 2 V10's 2 S1's and a G10 ). In every case they still looked good and all but the G10 were next to other TV's that they looked better to much better as far as overall picture quality ( I know I know lighting in big box stores). I think I will stop obsessing and just enjoy my TV and if the blacks start to go bad I will add the biased lighting and I think I will still be very happy with my purchase.
danh515 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Turrican4D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

But I actually had to lower both my brightness and contrast last night when HCFR reported my avg gamma for THX at 2.08. I thought it was funny to have to lower brightness & contrast to get it up to 2.2 but LarryInRI was nice enough to explain to me why in the 12G Settings/Issues thread.

This was a bad idea. If your gamma is too low, lowering the brightnesssetting is not the right solution.

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
Turrican4D is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by danh515 View Post

I have been following this thread since I bought my 54G10 in January. I considered returning it but could not find anything comparable at the price. I have probaly 250 -300hrs so I probably have not been hit yet. i hope Panasonic fixes the issue but I doubt they will. To my point... I was at BB and saw 5 - 2009's on display ( 2 V10's 2 S1's and a G10 ). In every case they still looked good and all but the G10 were next to other TV's that they looked better to much better as far as overall picture quality ( I know I know lighting in big box stores). I think I will stop obsessing and just enjoy my TV and if the blacks start to go bad I will add the biased lighting and I think I will still be very happy with my purchase.

You may want to consider returning it anyway.
Right now my plasma is like an LCD monitor

Black level is really important when watching in the dark -- especially if it is a moody, dark movie.
gersson is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:34 AM
Senior Member
 
jackal2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
last night i download a pioneer kuro best demo and watched it in a pitch back room. there are a lot of pure black scenes with some fish, flowers, etc. I almost cried that my tv looks like an LCD.

i wish i could return this tv.

TC-P50V10 Build Date: April 2009
A-Board replaced on 1/4/2010 w/1.24, updated to 1.28.
Current 0% IRE: 0.034FtL
My SM Factory Numbers
Putting the 50V10 downstairs. Bought a new Elite 101FD
jackal2001 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Infinate Black Panel

Definition of infinate:

Unlimited or boundless, in time or space; as, infinite duration or distance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without limit in power, capacity, knowledge, or excellence; boundless; immeasurably or inconceivably great; perfect; as, the infinite wisdom and goodness of God; -- opposed to finite.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indefinitely large or extensive; great; vast; immense; gigantic; prodigious.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greater than any assignable quantity of the same kind; -- said of certain quantities.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capable of endless repetition; -- said of certain forms of the canon, called also perpetual fugues, so constructed that their ends lead to their beginnings, and the performance may be incessantly repeated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That which is infinite; boundless space or duration; infinity; boundlessness.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An infinite quantity or magnitude.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
XStanleyX is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
I think Panasonic was actually refering to the bezel. My bezel is still totally black. Hasn't changed a bit.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
XStanleyX is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:16 AM
Member
 
Cody1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

I think Panasonic was actually refering to the bezel. My bezel is still totally black. Hasn't changed a bit.

My bezel is actually looking blacker and blacker, near Kuro black actually, likely due to the glowing charcoal grey bars on my G15. At least Panasonic got one "black" component right.
Cody1811 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody1811 View Post

My bezel is actually looking blacker and blacker, probably due to the glowing charcoal grey bars on my G15. At least Panasonic got one "black" component right.

Maybe we should paint our bezels to match. We might be a whole lot happier.
You go first and let me know how it works out.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
XStanleyX is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
David_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: delete me
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I really think Panasonic knew exactly what they where doing when they designed these panels.

They knew plasma was on it's way out, because people where buying less plasma's and more LCDs. So in order to keep the investment they had, they told the engineers to improve blacks.

There's no doubt in my mind the engineers told the boss's "we can make the blacks better for a short time, but over time they will be what they where on previous models". So of course the marketing department jumped at this!

Typical corporations, look at the short term and hope nobody notices the man behind the curtain has no clothes on.

To bad this class action suit won't be worth enough to any law firm to spend the time and money it would take to get that information through discovery from Panasonic though.

Whatever happened to the good old days when you could count on Sony making a high-end product you where willing to pay for, and Panasonic was just a second class mass merchandise company that didn't really make high end products?

It's to bad we don't have any more high end TV manufactures besides a few of the ultra expensive front projection guys..

buytme
David_B is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
XStanleyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

I really think Panasonic knew exactly what they where doing when they designed these panels.

They knew plasma was on it's way out, because people where buying less plasma's and more LCDs. So in order to keep the investment they had, they told the engineers to improve blacks.

There's no doubt in my mind the engineers told the boss's "we can make the blacks better for a short time, but over time they will be what they where on previous models". So of course the marketing department jumped at this!

Typical corporations, look at the short term and hope nobody notices the man behind the curtain has no clothes on.

To bad this class action suit won't be worth enough to any law firm to spend the time and money it would take to get that information through discovery from Panasonic though.

Whatever happened to the good old days when you could count on Sony making a high-end product you where willing to pay for, and Panasonic was just a second class mass merchandise company that didn't really make high end products?

It's to bad we don't have any more high end TV manufactures besides a few of the ultra expensive front projection guys..

Of course they knew how the TV's were going to perform. They still called them infinate black panels. They must have a different definition of infinate.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
XStanleyX is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Member
 
Cody1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstanleyx View Post

maybe we should paint our bezels to match. We might be a whole lot happier.
You go first and let me know how it works out.

lol
Cody1811 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jake Ironshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Fort Mohave
Posts: 553
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
TVpredictions.com has listed the BL Panasonic/ class action suit. It's about 3/4 down the page.
Jake Ironshirt is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Senior Member
 
jackal2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Ironshirt View Post

TVpredictions.com has listed the BL Panasonic/ class action suit. It's about 3/4 down the page.

Basically the same thing on the other website but here it is anyway:

News Digest
Panasonic Sued Over Plasma's Picture Quality
TVPredictions.com
Washington, D.C. (March 4, 2010) -- Panasonic has been hit with a class action suit regarding claims that the picture quality on its Plasma HDTVs has been declining.

According to CNET.com, the lawsuit, which was filed February 12 in federal court in Newark, New Jersey, claims an increase in the brightness of the black levels of the Plasma sets. Additionally, the defendants are charging that the sets are showing a decrease in their contrast ratios.

If true, the higher black level and lower contrast ratio would dilute the picture quality of the sets.

CNET says the suit states that "the television is no longer producing the same image quality that (Panasonic) represented it would produce."

The technology web site writes that it tested two 2009 model Panasonic Plasma sets and found a declining performance.

When asked about the test, Panasonic issued the following statement to CNET:

"Unfortunately, after our discussions about providing you with further information, a lawsuit regarding this issue was filed. While we believe that the lawsuit is baseless, since this is now a matter in litigation, Panasonic company policy prohibits us from responding to your questions."

The picture quality issue first surfaced at Internet message boards when Panasonic owners complained that their sets were under performing.

TC-P50V10 Build Date: April 2009
A-Board replaced on 1/4/2010 w/1.24, updated to 1.28.
Current 0% IRE: 0.034FtL
My SM Factory Numbers
Putting the 50V10 downstairs. Bought a new Elite 101FD
jackal2001 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
mustangs1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Perhaps this is why panasonic included anti image retention features in the 2009 models. They knew about this rise with increased IR.
mustangs1 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:30 AM
Senior Member
 
CHUCKCHILLOUT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Magnolia, Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

last night i download a pioneer kuro best demo and watched it in a pitch back room. there are a lot of pure black scenes with some fish, flowers, etc. I almost cried that my tv looks like an LCD.

i wish i could return this tv.

I don't know where you purchased it from, but you could trying calling them first to feel them out. Then I would go to the store and explain what has happened to management and just feel it out. There is no harm in trying; I can't see how a store wouldn't give a refund or at least store credit if someone was generally unhappy with a big purchase like that. Now if you got it online, I don't know what to say on that.

On a side note, where did you download the pioneer demo?
CHUCKCHILLOUT is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Senior Member
 
jackal2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT View Post

I don't know where you purchased it from, but you could trying calling them first to feel them out. Then I would go to the store and explain what has happened to management and just feel it out. There is no harm in trying; I can't see how a store wouldn't give a refund or at least store credit if someone was generally unhappy with a big purchase like that. Now if you got it online, I don't know what to say on that.

On a side note, where did you download the pioneer demo?

I got it from Vanns.com and they only have a 15 day return policy which is long gone.
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php
download kuro best 1

TC-P50V10 Build Date: April 2009
A-Board replaced on 1/4/2010 w/1.24, updated to 1.28.
Current 0% IRE: 0.034FtL
My SM Factory Numbers
Putting the 50V10 downstairs. Bought a new Elite 101FD
jackal2001 is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
barrist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
news of lawsuits hitting more of the media:


Panasonic Sued Over Plasma Black Level Issue

http://hometheater.about.com/b/2010/...evel-issue.htm
barrist is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:49 PM
Member
 
jigzat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You know, despite this issue I'm still buying a 46 " S1. In my case down here in Colombia is very cheap compared with LCD and LED and I still find it has a beautiful picture. The set has been on exposition for almost 4 months working 12/6 and it still yields better picture than some more expensive LCD. Last night they put a Samsung LED next to it and I almost decided to buy it instead but in a few seconds I notice some sudden and annoying change in backlighting when switching from dark scenes to light ones, this was a huge turn off for me even more than the black levels. In any case as soon as I buy it I'm going to try to photograph the demo version when the mall turn off the lights because even inside the Kiosk the light goes in. The other TV around was an LG LED with beautiful colors and pretty much great blacks but it cost twice than the S1.

Don't get me wrong I still think it was pretty much a slap in the face from Panasonic to trick the costumer this way and I'm very sorry about those who paid a premium price for a cheap product.
jigzat is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:59 PM
Member
 
DigitalSelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Quebec, CA
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by luciano1213 View Post

Then what do you buy? The only way to get the BL we thought we were getting with Panny is to buy a Kuro. But nothing in the price range of the Panasonics.So I guess if we are determined to get the black levels we want it's gonna cost big bucks.

Just curious. I've been following this thread for a while but haven't posted so far, because even though I'm a real enthusiast, I'm no expert on the matter. I tought I made a good deal when I decided to switch from my initial choice, which was a 46G10, to a 50V10 nut now, this whole controversy has got me understandably quite worried.

My set has about 500 hres so far and my blacks still seem good but I'm bound to suffer the same fate as everyone here I believe. It's really frustrating considering that over here the TV was selling for about 3000$. Had I have known, I would gladly have paid more for the Kuro. Regarding that, I have a few questions and please, excuse my ignorance if anything may appear obvious to some of you.

1- I just went to Pioneer's site and they are still advertising Kuro HDTVs. I know they're stopping production shortly, if they already haven't. Is it still possible to buy one?

2- I've seen the PDP-5020FD and PRO-111FD. Are both' black levels as good, and considering the fact that I'd only be willing to pay for the former, would its blacks and overall PQ still be much better than Panasonic's?

3- I'm asking all this because from what I've read in an earlier post, I may be able to return mine. Really not sure, as I've had it for a couple of months. I've noticed at least 2 bright spots while the white bars are scrolling. From what I've read, it's a defect that can't be dealt with and can lead to a refund. Besides, I also have annoying line bleeding sometimes.

I don't want to leave a sinking ship, but that's exactly what I'll try to do if Panasonic doesn't intend to lift a finger regarding this issue. Any advice and reply is much appreciated and I thank you all in advance...
DigitalSelf is offline  
Old 03-07-2010, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryInRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in RI
Posts: 5,274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

This was a bad idea. If your gamma is too low, lowering the brightnesssetting is not the right solution.

I agree and I did not recommend it.

Larry
LarryInRI is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off