Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 232 - AVS Forum
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post #6931 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by reszound View Post

So Australia (or anywhere for matter) is immune... bummer...
I guess our only hope is this class action, are there any updates at all that anyone knows of? Panasonic may have to end up replacing everyone's panels with 2010 models...

lol keep dreaming.
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post #6932 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 05:59 AM
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Well, I think I'll just play the waiting game. When 2010 V10 equivalents are out, I'll have some techs come over for my set, as I've noticed at least two bright spots on it while running the white bars and that are also showing while I'm watching a hockey game. Very annoying! From what I've read, it can't be fixed. So either they give me a new identical set or I could be entitled to a store credit and get me either a 2010 model or something entirely different. We'll see...
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post #6933 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 06:10 AM
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You guys are lucky. Maybe you can get new sets. For us in the USA, we have to live with it because "the tv is functioning as designed" and they will not do anything about it.
Maybe the lawsuit doesn't apply to outside the USA.

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post #6934 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

You guys are lucky. Maybe you can get new sets. For us in the USA, we have to live with it because "the tv is functioning as designed" and they will not do anything about it.
Maybe the lawsuit doesn't apply to outside the USA.

I don't think the lawsuit applies here, so I'll keep my fingers crossed about the bright spots issue. I don't know for sure but since I have an extended warranty... Tiiiiiime..... is on my siiiide....

P.S.: I wish I could find a 101FD over here...
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post #6935 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
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Glad to see the Panasonic boycott is crippling the company

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=auzWxPLpD9SE
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post #6936 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by reszound View Post

For a good laugh about all this, search you tube for "panasonic hitler" or "someone is angry at panasonic" - it may be our only consolation!

That was PERFECT! Finally someone who can express my feelings. We need to mass email this to Panasonic.

I have a lower priced X1. I keep hearing on several AV podcasts (Engadget HD, HT Guys, HD Nation, AV Rant) that you have to be VERY picky to even notice the problem. Panasonic now has the GOOD GUYS buying their line. My black levels looked GREAT (after calibration) when I first got my set, now (651 hrs) they are just plain GRAY. Black bars on a 235:1 Blu-Ray look like a CHEAP LCD! Even my wife (without knowing ANYTHING about the problem asked why I CHANGED the bar color to GRAY.

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post #6937 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkollen View Post

Glad to see the Panasonic boycott is crippling the company

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=auzWxPLpD9SE

Where did you get that from? I really doubt this whole MLL thing hit Panasonic more than 1% (and I am exaggerating).

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post #6938 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrist View Post

lol keep dreaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reszound View Post

So Australia (or anywhere for matter) is immune... bummer...
I guess our only hope is this class action, are there any updates at all that anyone knows of? Panasonic may have to end up replacing everyone's panels with 2010 models...

They will do the same thing, only slower...

...and then what, replace all of those with 2011s ?

They will stick to the design intent line. Then the grand argument will be whether or not knowing blacks would diminish, did they false advertise in using great blacks as a selling point - and what compensation (if any) will happen or will it just be a fine.

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post #6939 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mironto View Post

Where did you get that from? I really doubt this whole MLL thing hit Panasonic more than 1% (and I am exaggerating).

I was being sarcastic....just a little levity for those who think Panasonic really gives a hoot about people on this forum...

...wish they did, though....my set's black levels have already doubled
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post #6940 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by johnkollen View Post

Glad to see the Panasonic boycott is crippling the company

I wonder who boycotted Pioneer that they have to stop plasma production due to unprofitability.
According to the article, they will close down their TV business this month.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...212_424440.htm
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post #6941 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 08:11 AM
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Well, looks like Panasonic has been really hurt on all this black business....Not. Bloomberg article below says they have already sold out in the U.S. on their 3D plasmas and are taking backorders...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=auzWxPLpD9SE
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post #6942 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 45rpm View Post

I wonder who boycotted Pioneer that they have to stop plasma production due to unprofitability.
According to the article, they will close down their TV business this month.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...212_424440.htm

That was last year!
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post #6943 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by skoor View Post

Right. How many did they say they sold? Oh, all five of them. Great! Got to give them credit for PR. Way to go Mr. Perry. You keep your job for another quarter. Maybe.


They are obliviously not massed produced yet, sine all VT set so far have been made in Japan. Typically that means a limited run before the off-shore mass production, so not unexpected to sell them out.

Just image how many they will sell once they actually ship their 3D BR player and actually put the 3D sets on their website and BB has them listed instead of just press releases of demos in a very few locations.

you're right....not to mention the first few that sell are bought up by the people who want the latest and greatest of anything and everything....they don't really represent what the common person's reaction will be to 1st gen. 3d TV's
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post #6944 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 12:50 PM
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So Panasonic called me today and basically stuck to their story that the TVs are working they way they are supposed to. I even found him to be a little bit of a wise guy. He said that they never received a single complaint about these black level issues until people started posting on the internet about it, insinuating that the problem is not real, but all in people's heads. But he did agree to send a technician out to my house to look at the TV. He said if they do find a black-level rise they will replace it. If not, they won't do anything. What is the black level range that it should be (50 G10 I have) if there isn't a problem? And what would the measured black level range be if there was a problem?

Thanks
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post #6945 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by buckchester View Post

What is the black level range that it should be (50 G10 I have) if there isn't a problem? And what would the measured black level range be if there was a problem?

If you cannot tell the difference if there is a problem or none, I am afraid that you do not have a case.
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post #6946 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 45rpm View Post

That may be true but since I cannot see an obvious degradation of PQ on my 58S1 after the dreaded 1K hour mark anyway, I would rather use that $500 to buy as much Blu-ray movies as I can and enjoy the movies rather than stare at a blank screen with a $500 light meter.


And if you add up the cost of the audio, video, and RF test equipment that I have, you could buy a new house to store your Blu-ray disks.

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post #6947 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 01:51 PM
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So it's been determined that black levels rise even on the Panny 2010 sets, but in smaller increments. What about the 2010 samsung sets or other manufacturers?
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post #6948 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 02:09 PM
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If you cannot tell the difference if there is a problem or none, I am afraid that you do not have a case.

that wasn't his question...he just wants to know the range (measurement numbers) the black level should be in for it to either be a black level rise or working as normal. Panasonic is either going to say "yep by those numbers, it is a black level rise" or "nope by those numbers, the set is working as normal"......so who here knows the range it can be in for it to be working as normal??
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post #6949 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wopino View Post

that wasn't his question...he just wants to know the range (measurement numbers) the black level should be in for it to either be a black level rise or working as normal. Panasonic is either going to say "yep by those numbers, it is a black level rise" or "nope by those numbers, the set is working as normal"......so who here knows the range it can be in for it to be working as normal??

Only Panny knows this one. "Its a trade secret" you know

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post #6950 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 02:22 PM
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that wasn't his question...he just wants to know the range (measurement numbers) the black level should be in for it to either be a black level rise or working as normal. Panasonic is either going to say "yep by those numbers, it is a black level rise" or "nope by those numbers, the set is working as normal"......so who here knows the range it can be in for it to be working as normal??

Hold the horses! This is new! You are saying they are going to offer to replace your TV if they find a black level rise that is above spec (what ever level they deem is above "normal"? If what you are saying is true, that is a huge shift, if they have indeed offered to at least look at it and assess your situation....
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post #6951 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 02:25 PM
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Well, looks like Panasonic has been really hurt on all this black business....Not. Bloomberg article below says they have already sold out in the U.S. on their 3D plasmas and are taking backorders...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=auzWxPLpD9SE

Is this story true? I do not know that Panny 3D went on sale already. Am i missing something?
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post #6952 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by edowdy View Post

Hold the horses! This is new! You are saying they are going to offer to replace your TV if they find a black level rise that is above spec (what ever level they deem is above "normal"? If what you are saying is true, that is a huge shift, if they have indeed offered to at least look at it and assess your situation....

not my set but buckchester's set...that's what they told him anyways, the question is, will they actually honor it?
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post #6953 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wopino View Post

that wasn't his question...he just wants to know the range (measurement numbers) the black level should be in for it to either be a black level rise or working as normal. Panasonic is either going to say "yep by those numbers, it is a black level rise" or "nope by those numbers, the set is working as normal"......so who here knows the range it can be in for it to be working as normal??

exactly... Panasonic claims this whole thing is "normal" and they wouldn't release any additional technical details due to trade secrets. You can't really argue about specs that they haven't released. We have some approximate idea from the collected data and D-nice's info, but still nothing official from Panny to claim that something is outside of those "normal" specs.

Most of the techs are just going to eyeball it... then they'll reply with one of the following:

1) Panasonic's statement about it all being "normal"
2) Make up some stuff about plasmas losing "brightness" even though it's unrelated to this topic
3) Just plain say it seems fine to them
4) Void your warranty because you keep pestering them and accidentally mentioned you went into the service menu to calibrate the set yourself
5) Some combination of the above
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post #6954 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 03:52 PM
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But even after a few raises, are the black levels of, let's say, a G10, better or worse than a high-end LCD?
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post #6955 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckchester View Post

So Panasonic called me today and basically stuck to their story that the TVs are working they way they are supposed to. I even found him to be a little bit of a wise guy. He said that they never received a single complaint about these black level issues until people started posting on the internet about it, insinuating that the problem is not real, but all in people's heads. But he did agree to send a technician out to my house to look at the TV. He said if they do find a black-level rise they will replace it. If not, they won't do anything. What is the black level range that it should be (50 G10 I have) if there isn't a problem? And what would the measured black level range be if there was a problem?

Thanks

They won't measure the MLL of the set. Do you have a problem with degraded image quality on your set? I think you'll need to be able to point out a problem with your set. We all know all the 11 & 12G panels rise from their initial black levels as does Panny "by design". I would have some content for them to view to show your IQ is degraded.
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post #6956 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 04:33 PM
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What happens to your perfect deep blacks when you pop on some tinted 3D glasses.....crushed! The solution, raise the level of black to compensate.

Since consumers are too stupid to adjust the displays themselves, Panasonic has graciously taken it upon themselves to do it for you. They are saving you from some seriously dreary looking 3D.

I propose we embrace this 'brighter' 3D future and as a solution I will be offering non-polarised tinted glasses for sale on my website for all you 2D owning, future denying, ingrates. This will not only remedy your desire for deep dark blacks, but will also accustom you to the future of wearing kooky plastic glasses on your face for 8 hours a day.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edowdy View Post

Well, looks like Panasonic has been really hurt on all this black business....Not. Bloomberg article below says they have already sold out in the U.S. on their 3D plasmas and are taking backorders...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=auzWxPLpD9SE


And yet, the Pansonic spokesperson declined to provide specific numbers that were sold, when he was asked for them.

Most stores in the USA never even received any units to sell yet. What did they do; just ship a half dozen units to the US, and then brag about being sold out, to create a marketing buzz?
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post #6958 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 06:41 PM
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Can someone tell me how to check service hours on the v10? i cannot seem to find this information after a search.

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post #6959 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinmscs View Post

Is this story true? I do not know that Panny 3D went on sale already. Am i missing something?

It's funny how Panasonic is claiming they sold all of their 3D TVs the first week - i think there's only one guy in the VT20/VT25 Owners Thread that actually owns a VT20. And the VT25 isn't even available yet.

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post #6960 of 11231 Old 03-17-2010, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantinganewtoy View Post

I'm approaching 3000 hrs. on my 46"G10 and I see the 3 shades of gray, yeah gray not black but they used to be.

When/where are you seeing these three shades of gray?

Quote:


I still enjoy my set very much though. I've been wondering what I should/can do as far as Panasonic is concerned because I am approaching my 1 yr. of ownership. Is this something that I should report to CS just to get it on file? Or is it a situation where that would be a waste of time? I know there isn't currently a fix but if one becomes available would I need to have reported this issue?

It probably wouldn't hurt, but if as they say all 12G Panasonics are designed this way then obviously your TV is affected just like every other 12G in people's homes. They don't need to open a case for you to know your TV is fooked.


Quote:


Either way, how Panny handles this botch up will weigh heavily on who I make my next big HDTV purchase from.

Even with this rising black issue, the Panasonics are still better than the other two remaining plasma makers. If you switch your loyalties away from Panasonic then you'd be going from one issue to multiple issues and even worse build quality and customer service.

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