Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 361 - AVS Forum
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post #10801 of 11232 Old 07-02-2013, 01:10 PM
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@krass
I am not going to connect anything else from Arduino to Pana's panel board except the SDA and SLC pins. The power will be provided by the A-board. Do I still need to worry about the Arduino's pull-up resistors?

@MARKONE
I'll try to decode the EEPROM bytes once I clear up the right setup for Arduino regarding the voltage and pull-up resistors.

Thank you guys for the help.

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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10802 of 11232 Old 07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
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@mironto

I would be worried about the internal pull-up resistors, after all, the TV's safety worth the little extra effort.
So yes the power will be provided by the A-board.
The 10k external pull-up resistors was meant to test the Arduino with the EEPROM chip you bought with it, on the breadboard. This way you can check if the Arduino's internal pull-up resistors are disabled and the I2C communication works as expected. And for the TV's EEPROM only the Ardino's SDA and SCL should be connected to the service port SCL and SDA lines, nothing else.

So testing on your desk:
  • First modify the twi file.
  • Next check the EEPROM with breadboard( base layout as seen on your attached picture), no communication should be occured. - Meaning the internal pull-up resistors are disabled.
  • Next add power the SCL and SDA lines on the breadboard by the external pull-up resistors - communication should be fine.

The real thing:
Connect your Arduino to the service port: SDA and SCL to their corresponding pin- nothing else. The GND and I2C_CONT to the Arduino's GND.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, english is not my native language.
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post #10803 of 11232 Old 07-03-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

@krass
I am not going to connect anything else from Arduino to Pana's panel board except the SDA and SLC pins. The power will be provided by the A-board. Do I still need to worry about the Arduino's pull-up resistors?

@MARKONE
I'll try to decode the EEPROM bytes once I clear up the right setup for Arduino regarding the voltage and pull-up resistors.

Thank you guys for the help.

As already pointed out by KRASS, do not forget to connect also GND and I2C_CONT, tied together, to Arduino board GND line.

Also remember to perform cable connections with TV set turned off and disconnected from power line.
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post #10804 of 11232 Old 07-03-2013, 12:05 PM
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Now it makes more sense, thanks for explaining. I'll then modify twi file and test on breadboard. However I'm not sure if I'll find 10k resistors. Will try to salvage some junk I have around. Can I use some other values instead? Also, how should I modify the current wiring to accomodate the resistors?


Edit: I also found this article about disabling internal pullups How to disable internal Arduino ATMEGA pullups on SDA and SCL with I2C bus

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post #10805 of 11232 Old 07-03-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Now it makes more sense, thanks for explaining. I'll then modify twi file and test on breadboard. However I'm not sure if I'll find 10k resistors. Will try to salvage some junk I have around. Can I use some other values instead? Also, how should I modify the current wiring to accomodate the resistors?

You can use any resistors bigger than 4K safely. I made a wiring diagram:

The 3.3V pin are used for the pull-ups, but the 5V pin should also be fine for testing this EEPROM.

Remember, for the TV don't use pull-ups.
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post #10806 of 11232 Old 07-06-2013, 04:25 PM
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@krass
Thanks for the help, I found some 10k potentiometers and set them for ~4.7k. I disabled the internal pull-ups (testbed was not working anymore as expected) and I altered the wiring to accomodate those resistots. I was able to read/write to eeprom once again.

I also soldered some cables for the Pany so tomorrow I'll have a go at the actual thing ( if those soldered connectors will fit). I have around 5300 hours on the set.

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post #10807 of 11232 Old 07-07-2013, 07:34 AM
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Just a quick update - I was able to read/write to A-board EEPROM with my setup and I reset the panel hours (together with on/off counts) to 0. I'll post details tonight when I'll take some MLL pictures and compare to my previous images because it's hard to tell if black is back to start in the middle of the day.

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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10808 of 11232 Old 07-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

Just a quick update - I was able to read/write to A-board EEPROM with my setup and I reset the panel hours (together with on/off counts) to 0. I'll post details tonight when I'll take some MLL pictures and compare to my previous images because it's hard to tell if black is back to start in the middle of the day.

So it works without any wiring outside service connector, like mine, that's good.
In my case,black level dropped from 0.12 to 0.03 cd/m2, no need to wait darkness to enjoy the improvement ;-)
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post #10809 of 11232 Old 07-07-2013, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for all the updates. I'll be interested in your thoughts/pictures once you have a dark room.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10810 of 11232 Old 07-07-2013, 04:05 PM
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For those inpatient I'm gonna get straight to the point - yes, the black level was restored to original state after the EEPROM write.

Now the full story:
back in 2010 as I was about to buy G10 I found this thread started by Orta so I already knew about the rising blacks before I actually bought the TV (I gave it a lot of thought and decided to buy it anyways since it was not clear back then if it was affecting all the sets or Panasonic will release a FW fix). Therefore I decided to take a picture every couple of hundred hours of the screen in the darkness with the same exact settings with my camera on full manual (aperture, shutter, ISO, WB, focus, etc.). The first rise I experienced between 232 and 295 hours, second between 942 and 994 hours, and third (final?) between 2176 and 2326 hours.

Just before I started fiddling with the EEPROM I took another picture at 5263h for direct comparison and the last one tonight at 5265 hours. I'll post here only the first one at 5h and the last two (they're ~2MB each) so you can see and comment but from what I can say the black level is about the same at 5h as at 5265h after the panel reset.
0005 hours 5263 hours

I tried to decipher how the panel age is stored in the EEPROM but gave up after some 15 minutes as it is not obvious. The only thing I found out is that the 6th and 7th byte represent on/off hours.
Here is the reading from second to seventh byte: 13 c5 47 88 11 4a
TV represents those bytes as 5264:00h and 4426 (11 4a) on/off cycles. From what I tell the counter for hours was incrementing in 15mins steps, because I never saw on that counter (when you go through service menu to check panel hours) anything else besides xx:00h, xx:15h, xx:30h and xx:45h. There are a few minutes between the reading and checking through service menu so the last few bits might have changed in between. Since I did not reset the counter in peaks EEPROM, I still get the actual hours and on/off times from the service menu, but if I check the panel EEPROM, I see that it's counting from zero, again (which now makes it difficult to check the EEPROM bytes with what's on the screen and decipher where/how is the panel age stored).

I am planning creating a dedicated web page with step-by-step easy to follow instructions so everybody can fix their black level on G10 (hopefully there'll be an easier method for S10 and somebody can try it at V10 or G13 models as well) for some $10-15 and a bit of spare time so I'll keep you posted in a few days.

Edit: just to be clear, the guide will be free for everybody, you'll just need to get yourself an Arduino board (which is about $10-15 on eBay if you don't have any, yet).
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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10811 of 11232 Old 07-07-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post

For those inpatient I'm gonna get straight to the point - yes, the black level was restored to original state after the EEPROM write.

I am planning creating a dedicated web page with step-by-step easy to follow instructions so everybody can fix their black level on G10 (hopefully there'll be an easier method for S10 and somebody can try it at V10 or G13 models as well) for some $10-15 and a bit of spare time so I'll keep you posted in a few days.

Thank You! This is amazing news! You are a rock star!
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post #10812 of 11232 Old 07-08-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post


I am planning creating a dedicated web page with step-by-step easy to follow instructions so everybody can fix their black level on G10 (hopefully there'll be an easier method for S10 and somebody can try it at V10 or G13 models as well) for some $10-15 and a bit of spare time so I'll keep you posted in a few days.

Edit: just to be clear, the guide will be free for everybody, you'll just need to get yourself an Arduino board (which is about $10-15 on eBay if you don't have any, yet).

For "PC free" operation i would suggest an LCD / push buttons Arduino shield like the following one :

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 95

It comes dirty cheap, check carefully the photos for seller detail.

With some extra code effort it's possible to build a stand alone device capable to show E2PROM content before and after reset operation, with a basic UI management.
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post #10813 of 11232 Old 07-08-2013, 05:34 AM
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Excellent news mironto. Big, big thanks to you for doing this.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10814 of 11232 Old 07-08-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKONE View Post

For "PC free" operation i would suggest an LCD / push buttons Arduino shield like the following one :

It comes dirty cheap, check carefully the photos for seller detail.

With some extra code effort it's possible to build a stand alone device capable to show E2PROM content before and after reset operation, with a basic UI management.

Yes, that's an option, I might expand onto it once I get the guide done. Really cheap at dealextreme ($6) but the thing is it does not have pass-through pins from arduino like e.g. ethernet shield does.

I'd probably have to solder the wires on top of it or put the connectors inbetween the LCD and arduino board? Also, you then need external power supply instead of just USB cable from PC.

For my PC-less operation I used Nexus 7 and OTG cable smile.gif


I'd love to get a proper service connector for the TV since my soldered wires are not that perfect. Do you guys know what is the connector called or where I can get the counterpart to it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthrojohn View Post

Thank You! This is amazing news! You are a rock star!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kuester View Post

Excellent news mironto. Big, big thanks to you for doing this.

Thanks but all I did was asking a lot of questions to the right guys who know the stuff.
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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10815 of 11232 Old 07-11-2013, 03:35 PM
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Great to see some progress in this thread.

When I did the hack initially on my S10 with opening the case and grounding the via, I did this while the TV was running. As you know, the panel doesn't boot with i2c_cont grounded. I don't remember if I checked the EEPROMS write protection in that state, because I was probably getting nervous when the panel didn't switch on cool.gif

Just wanted to say, perhaps my model (tx-p42s10) can be hacked without being openend, too.

EDIT: I think the first two bytes of the clock represent the hours. When I remember correctly the next byte was minutes and the next one seconds. But that makes no sense in mironto's case. But I was definitely able to see the seconds being counted up with a switched on panel. Remember that the clock you can see in the service menu is the system on time (not the panels on time) and is stored in another eeprom.
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post #10816 of 11232 Old 07-12-2013, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by clktmr View Post

Just wanted to say, perhaps my model (tx-p42s10) can be hacked without being openend, too.

I would venture to say that there is no need to jumper the "via" in any model out there.

Luckily i was not threatened by the disabled panel at start up and i was well surprised having success trying the write sequence without any via wiring.

This change hugely the operation difficult level.
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post #10817 of 11232 Old 07-12-2013, 03:20 PM
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Great to see some progress in this thread.

When I did the hack initially on my S10 with opening the case and grounding the via, I did this while the TV was running. As you know, the panel doesn't boot with i2c_cont grounded. I don't remember if I checked the EEPROMS write protection in that state, because I was probably getting nervous when the panel didn't switch on cool.gif

Just wanted to say, perhaps my model (tx-p42s10) can be hacked without being openend, too.

EDIT: I think the first two bytes of the clock represent the hours. When I remember correctly the next byte was minutes and the next one seconds. But that makes no sense in mironto's case. But I was definitely able to see the seconds being counted up with a switched on panel. Remember that the clock you can see in the service menu is the system on time (not the panels on time) and is stored in another eeprom.

Could you please try and write to the EEPROM without using the via to confirm if it's possible to do the simple procedure on S10 model as well?

I tried many combinations to get to the right number of hours, but was not lucky so far. 0x13 0xc5 is 5061 while in service menu it displays 5264h (which is close but no close enough). Also, if 0x47 was minutes and 0x88 seconds, why would it go over 60? I'll do another reading soon and try to decode the now lesser hours I clocked after the reset.

Btw. I am still looking for that male connector to connect to service port. does anybody have a hint where I could get it?

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post #10818 of 11232 Old 07-12-2013, 04:02 PM
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Btw. I am still looking for that male connector to connect to service port. does anybody have a hint where I could get it?

http://www.google.com/search?q=jst+ph+connector
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post #10819 of 11232 Old 07-15-2013, 04:30 AM
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Btw. I am still looking for that male connector to connect to service port. does anybody have a hint where I could get it?

Where are you from ?
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post #10820 of 11232 Old 07-15-2013, 12:27 PM
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Where are you from ?
Slovakia. I found the connector on ebay (lot of 50 :-) so I'm gonna order it.

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post #10821 of 11232 Old 07-16-2013, 01:42 AM
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Slovakia. I found the connector on ebay (lot of 50 :-) so I'm gonna order it.

Are they already assembled with wires and contacts ?

Otherwise make sure to buy connector body as well as proper female contacts.

Be also sure for 2.0 mm contacts pitch.
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post #10822 of 11232 Old 07-16-2013, 01:27 PM
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I have bought 50 PHR-11 connector housings and 200 PH 2.0mm crimps. Once I get the guide done, I'll be giving them away for free/postage I guess smile.gif
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post #10823 of 11232 Old 07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
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I can only confirm my Viera TH-50PZ800U 50-Inch 1080p Plasma had the issue. The funny thing is, when it happened, I had been doing some minor tweaking and was totally confused as it literally was an on/off moment where it *instantly* lost its deeper black levels right before my eyes, while I was tweeking some minor setting. I thought I had done it somehow by adjusting some silly setting. I forgot what it was, color or tint or something but when it happened I just about lost my mind.

The black level was probably not even average anymore, imo; but the impact on the overall picture quality was very substantial and it definitely lost the "wow" factor at the time. It was a terrible disappointment and no longer would I watch bluray's just for the sake of beholding the picture quality alone. I went back to only watching content for the content and the tv wasn't "special" to me anymore.

Glad to see people figured this out. I almost pulled out all of my hair. So very very glad I bought the Samsung this time around... just by sheer chance. I would be deflated right now had I chose the Panny, knowing the inevitable doom approaches by the minute.
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post #10824 of 11232 Old 07-18-2013, 11:19 AM
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For "PC free" operation i would suggest an LCD / push buttons Arduino shield like the following one :

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality


This is like the idea that I had, but I didn't think to look for any existing platforms that were available so inexpensively.. an existing, inexpensive platform would be so nice! I would be happy to work on a nice UI for such a device once a consensus is made on which model would be best to use..

 

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post #10825 of 11232 Old 07-18-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mironto View Post

I have bought 50 PHR-11 connector housings and 200 PH 2.0mm crimps. Once I get the guide done, I'll be giving them away for free/postage I guess smile.gif

 

Thumbs up mironto!  Much appreciation for your hard work and everyone else's support on this task.  I'm game to build a self-contained unit with a display and connector..  Leave a connector dangling on the back of my TV (wall-mounted), and connect a self-contained unit from time-to-time to check-and-set things.    Alternatively a USB-to-I2C adapter (like this one) with a simple windows program..  cost would stay low and even less hardware required..

 

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post #10826 of 11232 Old 07-18-2013, 01:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Glad to see people figured this out. I almost pulled out all of my hair. So very very glad I bought the Samsung this time around... just by sheer chance. I would be deflated right now had I chose the Panny, knowing the inevitable doom approaches by the minute.
Where have you read that 2012 and 2013 panels are also afflicted with this defect? I have a feeling you made that up.
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post #10827 of 11232 Old 07-19-2013, 10:59 PM
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Leave a connector dangling on the back of my TV (wall-mounted), and connect a self-contained unit from time-to-time to check-and-set things.
As far as I remember you cannot leave the connector connected to the unit as it will have I2C_CONT and GND pins shortened and the TV would only start in service mode without powered up panel. But you could make an extension cable that you would leave connected and connect the service cable to that.

I have the guide almost ready, nedd to take some more pictures and create schematics. I guess I should be done in a few more days.

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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10828 of 11232 Old 07-22-2013, 01:17 PM
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Panasonic TX-50VT20 and EEPROM 24C64WP

https://picasaweb.google.com/107648116542936773472/PanasonicMod?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLKqoLLOu6SG8gE&feat=directlink

This correct ... restore factory black !!!
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post #10829 of 11232 Old 07-23-2013, 01:18 AM
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Panasonic TX-50VT20 and EEPROM 24C64WP

https://picasaweb.google.com/107648116542936773472/PanasonicMod?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLKqoLLOu6SG8gE&feat=directlink

This correct ... restore factory black !!!
Wow, that's some hardcore engineering smile.gif Are you going to unsolder/solder the chip every few hundred hours? Maybe you could try doing it over I2C bus to confirm that this route is viable also for G13 models?

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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10830 of 11232 Old 07-31-2013, 02:54 PM
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What's with all the amazing hackers that come out of Russia and Eastern Europe? I love you guys! Can't wait to play doctor with my S1. smile.gif

I might even have to sell my UT50! eek.gif

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