Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 362 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10831 of 11930 Old 08-01-2013, 05:58 AM
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I had the Panasonic tech in my house the other day. Of course being from the company and being German Ordung he would not adjust anything.

7K Hours on the TV and I also have the black level rise. Its not terrible but its enough that I look forward to this. I showed him this thread and the original German version and his comment was that many TV manufactures from competing brands post threads like this to cause problems rolleyes.gif

He did reset some stuff though through SD card but not the blacks.


On a side note:
I went through the calibration menu using the S&M Blu ray and was surprised after so many years, moves, that the TV was still basically spot on. And after a few days away looking at so called high end LCD tv's in various hotels, places I stayed how much better this TV still looks.

Now just need to save for a newer VT60 smile.gif
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post #10832 of 11930 Old 08-01-2013, 10:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 807recordings View Post

his comment was that many TV manufactures from competing brands post threads like this to cause problems rolleyes.gif
lol, yes, this thread is a figment of everyone's imagination. Gotta love the denial.
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post #10833 of 11930 Old 08-01-2013, 12:47 PM
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Hold on guys, by the end of the week I have the guide ready and all of you can start resetting your black level to day one wink.gif
Steve Kuester just did a successful reset on his P54V10 yesterday following the first draft. Here are his pictures from before and after (he was only on the second rise). Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting them...


Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10834 of 11930 Old 08-01-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mironto View Post

Hold on guys, by the end of the week I have the guide ready and all of you can start resetting your black level to day one wink.gif
Steve Kuester just did a successful reset on his P54V10 yesterday following the first draft. Here are his pictures from before and after (he was only on the second rise). Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting them...


No, I don't mind at all.

I think everyone will be very impressed with your guide.

I'll be watching this thread to help if anyone has any questions about resetting the MLL on their V10.

Big thanks to you Mironto.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10835 of 11930 Old 08-02-2013, 05:41 AM
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Wow, can't wait!!!!
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post #10836 of 11930 Old 08-03-2013, 07:19 AM
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I managed to finish the guide. So far I have tested it on TX-P42G10E and TC-P54V10 models but I believe the fix should be applicable to all 12G/13G and mabe even 11G models. If you have any comments, additions, or corrections, please let me know via this forum or leave a comment on the guide.

Panasonic plasma black level restoration

Feel free to share it all over the internet.
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Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #10837 of 11930 Old 08-03-2013, 08:18 AM
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Wow, very well done. I'm sure my TC-P65V10 will thank you when I get around to doing this. Thank you.

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post #10838 of 11930 Old 08-03-2013, 12:49 PM
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Much love, Mironto!smile.gif

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post #10839 of 11930 Old 08-03-2013, 03:23 PM
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Top effort Mironto! Well done.
My folks have my V10 now, but if I ever get the opportunity to spend some time with it while they're away, I'll definitely consider doing this.
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post #10840 of 11930 Old 08-06-2013, 01:03 AM
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That's an awesome tutorial, indeed.
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post #10841 of 11930 Old 08-06-2013, 08:16 AM
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kudos!!!

My 50G10 could use some love...
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post #10842 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 10:19 AM
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All,

 

Would there be interest in a USD$30 shipped self-contained solution that auto-magically reset the MLL every 200 hours or so? 

 

I'm thinking a tiny device that plugs into the connector once, and is promptly left alone.  I have already identified some very small micro boards that would fit the target price point.  I would buy a bulk of them (to get the price down), program them, and mail them out.. The end-user would just pry up the plastic cover, click on the tiny board to the JST connector, and close it back up.  Based on the fantastic work already done here, most of the research is already done.

 

The only questions that I have are whether or not the I2C_CONT pin can be grounded after the TV is already powered on (or does it need to be grounded before power is applied), and if the TV can continue operating after the I2C_CONT pin is released (or does it need to be powered off then back on). If it can be a transparent operation to the end-user, then such a tiny self-contained solution is almost done..  A few things to test out on my 12G to make sure it all works, such as how much head-room is available for a tiny board (it might end up being a tiny board covered in hot-glue hanging from a pig-tail connector so it can be left to dangle but not short-circuit anything), and then offer it up to the group.

 

If transparent operation can't be done, then at least maybe a small wire to a small button hanging out the back of the panel would be enough to make it a user-initiated clear.. (if auto-magic operation was not possible)

 

I have some overtime coming up at work, but I'm thinking I could have these available pretty quickly (6-8 weeks?).. 

 

Any Interest?  Thoughts?

 

..dane

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post #10843 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

All,

Would there be interest in a USD$30 shipped self-contained solution that auto-magically reset the MLL every 200 hours or so? 

I'm thinking a tiny device that plugs into the connector once, and is promptly left alone.  I have already identified some very small micro boards that would fit the target price point.  I would buy a bulk of them (to get the price down), program them, and mail them out.. The end-user would just pry up the plastic cover, click on the tiny board to the JST connector, and close it back up.  Based on the fantastic work already done here, most of the research is already done.

The only questions that I have are whether or not the I2C_CONT pin can be grounded after the TV is already powered on (or does it need to be grounded before power is applied), and if the TV can continue operating after the I2C_CONT pin is released (or does it need to be powered off then back on). If it can be a transparent operation to the end-user, then such a tiny self-contained solution is almost done..  A few things to test out on my 12G to make sure it all works, such as how much head-room is available for a tiny board (it might end up being a tiny board covered in hot-glue hanging from a pig-tail connector so it can be left to dangle but not short-circuit anything), and then offer it up to the group.

If transparent operation can't be done, then at least maybe a small wire to a small button hanging out the back of the panel would be enough to make it a user-initiated clear.. (if auto-magic operation was not possible)

I have some overtime coming up at work, but I'm thinking I could have these available pretty quickly (6-8 weeks?).. 

Any Interest?  Thoughts?

..dane

I'd pay double! But seriously, count me in!
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post #10844 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 11:19 AM
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Yes, please include me. So you believe that you can accomplish the change with a relatively simple device. Wow count me in. I would pay $50. If it works.
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post #10845 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 12:50 PM
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I'm interested in a self-contained solution as I'm not quite a Radio Shack afficianado.

Yamaha RX-V2600, Fisher MT-9090, Mitsubishi HS-U80, Pioneer DVL-90, Sony BDP-S550, Nakamichi Dragon, Sony CDP-X555ES, Carver AV-634, Carver TFM-42, Panasonic TC-P54V10, BenQ W1070, Polk SDA-1C mains, Polk CS400i center, Polk Fxi A4 surrounds, Polk RT1A1 surround back, Polk RM1000W sub.
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post #10846 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 02:24 PM
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Count me in for the $30 solution! This is an amazingly unexpected development, and I can finally hope to return my plasma to its 2009 glory! THANK YOU!
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post #10847 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

All,

Would there be interest in a USD$30 shipped self-contained solution that auto-magically reset the MLL every 200 hours or so? 

I'm thinking a tiny device that plugs into the connector once, and is promptly left alone.  I have already identified some very small micro boards that would fit the target price point.  I would buy a bulk of them (to get the price down), program them, and mail them out.. The end-user would just pry up the plastic cover, click on the tiny board to the JST connector, and close it back up.  Based on the fantastic work already done here, most of the research is already done.

The only questions that I have are whether or not the I2C_CONT pin can be grounded after the TV is already powered on (or does it need to be grounded before power is applied), and if the TV can continue operating after the I2C_CONT pin is released (or does it need to be powered off then back on). If it can be a transparent operation to the end-user, then such a tiny self-contained solution is almost done..  A few things to test out on my 12G to make sure it all works, such as how much head-room is available for a tiny board (it might end up being a tiny board covered in hot-glue hanging from a pig-tail connector so it can be left to dangle but not short-circuit anything), and then offer it up to the group.

If transparent operation can't be done, then at least maybe a small wire to a small button hanging out the back of the panel would be enough to make it a user-initiated clear.. (if auto-magic operation was not possible)

I have some overtime coming up at work, but I'm thinking I could have these available pretty quickly (6-8 weeks?).. 

Any Interest?  Thoughts?

..dane

Well, given the fact that my own DIY incompetence is why I got my 65v10 in the first place (long story), I would absolutely be interested!!! biggrin.gif

Peace... Vader
 

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post #10848 of 11930 Old 08-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Just wondering how the change would affect overall calibration. I have a p50V10 which was calibrated after about 100 hour break in period. After resetting the black level would it need a readjustment to get an optimum PQ?
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post #10849 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 01:47 AM
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Stand-alone would also be nice, but also for Panasonic to get off their cushions and come up with a device also. yes we can all dream smile.gif

It really gets my gull when companies become so useless in the simplest regards. Surely this lazy technician should have been able to do this in 2 mins with the correct device when he came to my flat.

This really has me considering putting off purchasing a VT60 later this year.


Anyways I am in for Stand-alone device.
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post #10850 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

The only questions that I have are whether or not the I2C_CONT pin can be grounded after the TV is already powered on (or does it need to be grounded before power is applied), and if the TV can continue operating after the I2C_CONT pin is released (or does it need to be powered off then back on).

From what I remember you can ground I2C_CONT while the TV is on, but I couldn't get write access this way. When it's grounded and you switch the TV on, the power LED goes green but the panel stays off. This is where I think I could have write access. This would mean that you have to do the reset manually.

But it's some time ago since I opened my S10. You better check it yourself.
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post #10851 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 04:56 AM
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@ audiodane, I'd be interested as well.
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post #10852 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Skene View Post

Just wondering how the change would affect overall calibration. I have a p50V10 which was calibrated after about 100 hour break in period. After resetting the black level would it need a readjustment to get an optimum PQ?

I'm not a calibration expert, but I think my advice is sound in this case. The first black level increase of your V10 didn't happen til roughly the 250 hour mark. So your set was calibrated when the set had it's darkest black level. Doing this reset will put your black levels back to their same state as when you had it calibrated. I would absolutely do this if I were you, since you already spent good money getting it calibrated.

Either follow the step by step guide mironto has done or sign up for what audiodane has going. I followed mironto's guide on my 54V10, and it was really easy. You won't spend more than $15-20 to get the hardware you need.

You'll be very happy with the result - I know I am.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10853 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 09:14 AM
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Wow, more interested parties than I expected..  I thought since this thread was getting long in the tooth that there wouldn't be much interest..   I would like to stick to my $30 target.  If people wanted to donate above and beyond after trying it (and hopefully liking it), then I'd leave that to their own decision.  I certainly don't want to be too greedy, but also cannot subsidize every unit sold.  Based on what I've read, it should be fairly simple to accomplish all this for the $30/unit price point.  it also becomes cheap enough that if a board fails after a year, I won't be expected to offer support, they can just buy a new one.  Breaching higher than $30 and people will start to expect support, and I certainly don't want angry customers tracking me down.. If the micro I plan to use works out (I have some questions out to some people waiting to hear back), then $30 affords me the cost to buy parts, a small pittance for my time (connecting cables, soldering, and wrapping the solution in shrink-wrap or hot-glue or whatever works), and postage. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clktmr View Post


From what I remember you can ground I2C_CONT while the TV is on, but I couldn't get write access this way. When it's grounded and you switch the TV on, the power LED goes green but the panel stays off. This is where I think I could have write access. This would mean that you have to do the reset manually.

But it's some time ago since I opened my S10. You better check it yourself.

 

Thanks for that information.  I will have to open up my G10 and have a look myself.  As I recall (I'll have to go back and read some posts), the I2C signalling is at 3.3V.  The service connector has a 5V supply, so a simple LDO to regulate a few mA down to 3.3V would be easy to add.  I was hoping the self-contained solution could just do it on powerup.  I'll have to get my 'scope out and measure when the +5V signal goes high on the panel compared to when the TV is turned on.  There is still a chance that a small micro can power-up and ground the pin (after the hour mark flag has passed) quickly enough so they TV thinks it was grounded before turning things on.  That would be the idea case.  If that does NOT work, then I could put a pushbutton in there along with a super-cap to hold a charge long enough to go with the approach of telling the end-user, "when you want to manually reset your MLL, turn the TV on for at least 10(?) minutes to trickle-charge the self-contained battery, push the button, then turn the TV off for 1 minute, then turn back on.  Push the button to reset the MLL, then turn the TV back off again."   That's a bit cumbersome, but a simple step by step guide would walk the user through the process very easily, and still not require opening up the back but the one time to install the device.

 

Give me a few days to work out if I can get the micro board at the price I need to hit (for my $30 target price), and I'll come back with some more details.

 

thanks to everyone for their interest, and thanks again to the brave souls who have paved this road ahead of me, and especially for mironto whose online documentation I have visited more times than I can count to make sure I understand what needs to be done.

 

cheers,

..dane

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post #10854 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 10:34 AM
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Sounds great, keep us posted on your progress. Good to see this works on a NA tv. I had a notion the European tv's are too different for this to work but Steve's results have put that idea to rest.
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post #10855 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

  I'll have to get my 'scope out and measure when the +5V signal goes high on the panel compared to when the TV is turned on. 

On my V10, I was surprised to see +5V on that pin even with the TV powered off. That is how I verified the pinout as that connector is horizontal on the V10, vs. vertical on the G's and S's.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10856 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 10:53 AM
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Well, given the fact that my own DIY incompetence is why I got my 65v10 in the first place (long story), I would absolutely be interested!!! biggrin.gif

Wow. I've got a fair amount of DIY incompetence, but I never ended up with a 65 inch TV as a result.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #10857 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kuester View Post

Wow. I've got a fair amount of DIY incompetence, but I never ended up with a 65 inch TV as a result.

In short, I tried to clean the mirror in my Mitsu 65" rear projection, and ended up scratching the mirror pretty badly. My wife (who told me *not* to try it), on seeing the defeated look on my face when I emerged from my theater room, simply said "lets go shopping." I did not even have to say "honey, I did something really stupid," and to her credit she never did say "I told you so." I love my wife.
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post #10858 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 12:51 PM
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Chalk up one more interested person for a pre-built unit.

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post #10859 of 11930 Old 08-08-2013, 06:25 PM
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I too would be interested in a pre-built magic unit.
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post #10860 of 11930 Old 08-09-2013, 08:26 AM
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I would absolutely pay for a pre built unit....my black levels have risen dramatically on my 65' V10

Please make it happen!!!!
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