Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 367 - AVS Forum
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post #10981 of 11226 Old 10-29-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

Blog update posted..  Per keramt's post above, I've had to put some things on hold.  I need to start checking service manuals in earnest.  I've checked four tonight, and sure enough, only one of them have 3.3V on the service connector.  The other three only have 5.0V on their service connectors.

The blog post above includes other updates regarding software and custom hardware progress, but with a compiler bug finally worked around and code working once more, I have now shifted to service manual verification.

I'm going to need some help though.  I don't even know how many model numbers exist out there.  I'm not a panasonic employee, or a TV service technician. Just a EE with some spare time and a 2009 G10 plasma.

So I'm looking for model numbers AND service manuals.  PMs are great, or emails to my username at hotmail.com  (audio.. @ hotmail . com) are just as great -- maybe better actually, than trying to use the forum as a service manual repository..   At this point I don't even know if all of the sizes within a particular family have the same service connector pinouts, or the same physical connectors.  Ugg..

Any help that can be provided would be fantastic..

thanks,
..dane

ps.- I figure it's also about time to mimic miro's layered image of various hour modes on my set and their black levels..  I can tell it's making a difference on my set, but it would probably be good to show people that in fact PMCv1 is doing what it's supposed to be doing.  I'll try to work on that in the coming week while I look at service manuals.. 

I would bet that all the 2009 models (S, G and V) are more than likely 3.3V

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post #10982 of 11226 Old 10-29-2013, 01:38 PM
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Dane, check this out

http://tsn.pstc.panasonic.com/PASS/olt/files/Plasma/Gen12/2009_PDP_Troubleshooting_Handbook_TTG090507CP-REV091117.pdf

http://tsn.pstc.panasonic.com/PASS/olt/files/Plasma/Gen12/Plasma_12th_Generation_Technical_Guide.pdf

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post #10983 of 11226 Old 10-30-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post


I would bet that all the 2009 models (S, G and V) are more than likely 3.3V

 

I don't like surprises.  This most recent one about a different service connector pinout I did not enjoy.  I'm going to check every service manual I can find for 2008-2010 panels..

 

 

Thanks Gov-- that gives me a huge list of model numbers to start with.  I will start tracking down service manuals now..

 

cheers,

..dane


 
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post #10984 of 11226 Old 10-31-2013, 07:22 AM
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So, am I out of luck with a European model?
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post #10985 of 11226 Old 11-04-2013, 06:36 AM
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Hi,

I have a TX-P42G10E model. I have all the manuals that came with the TV. What information exactly am I looking for to provide help to audiodane?
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post #10986 of 11226 Old 11-04-2013, 02:10 PM
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Hi. Having trouble finding the relevant info searching this thread (too long). I live in the UK and have a 50" G20B. Will this work on this set and is it safe to follow the webpage guide (Just seeing this 3.3v vs 5v thing so don't want to proceed until I know it's safe)?

Ta.
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post #10987 of 11226 Old 11-04-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko View Post

Hi,

I have a TX-P42G10E model. I have all the manuals that came with the TV. What information exactly am I looking for to provide help to audiodane?

I'm pretty sure the tv only comes with the owners manual and he's looking for the service manuals that a tech would use with the service info and wiring diagrams.
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post #10988 of 11226 Old 11-05-2013, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Emery View Post

Hi. Having trouble finding the relevant info searching this thread (too long). I live in the UK and have a 50" G20B. Will this work on this set and is it safe to follow the webpage guide (Just seeing this 3.3v vs 5v thing so don't want to proceed until I know it's safe)?
The procedure should be the same, Panasonic seems to have changed the connectors for 2010 models, however. At least for VT20 model keramt posted

For the 11-pin connector they did not use JST PHR-11 anymore but from what I can tell probably NSH or GH family. If you have 20-pin connector, you could use JST SHLDP-20V-S(B) or SHLDP-20V-S-1(B) (if you can find one).

Could you please verify what service connectors you have on the back of the TV (post a picture if not sure)?

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post #10989 of 11226 Old 11-05-2013, 06:19 AM
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Hello everyone..

 

To answer some questions-- I have two primary pages for PMCv1 at this point.  The development blog is still at http://audiodane.dandk.org/category/panasonic-mll/ where you can follow my boring and wordy updates as I work through PMCv1's development.  The second page is at http://audiodane.dandk.org/pmcv1/ and will eventually be the ordering page, but for now just lists each model that I know about and my progress towards checking its service manual.  That page has not been updated in about a week, as things have been very busy.  The calendar is filling up fast at casa-de-audiodane as the holidays are approaching.  I was hoping to be done with PMCv1 by now for that reason, until the pinout issue was brought to my attention.  So things are on hold while I verify service manuals.  I hope to update that page in the coming day or two with the list that I currently have to check.  I have received several emails and PMs with regards to service manuals and model numbers, and am very grateful to those who have replied.  I am now working to sort the list and start going through it, and try to keep the second link above updated as best as possible.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elix View Post

So, am I out of luck with a European model?

 

 

I believe Mironto has a European model, whose DIY webpage was my baseline starting point for the PMCv1 (thank you again Mironto!).  So with that information, my guess is that the procedure will work fine on a European model.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko View Post

Hi,

I have a TX-P42G10E model. I have all the manuals that came with the TV. What information exactly am I looking for to provide help to audiodane?

 

Tanks vlatko.  As mentioned, I am looking for service manuals.  I have added your model number to my list.  Give me a few days to a week and then check the link given above.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Emery View Post

Hi. Having trouble finding the relevant info searching this thread (too long). I live in the UK and have a 50" G20B. Will this work on this set and is it safe to follow the webpage guide (Just seeing this 3.3v vs 5v thing so don't want to proceed until I know it's safe)?

Ta.

 

mironto's page is designed around the 11pin connector.  However, as I recall his DIY guide includes the necessary instructions to have the arduino board properly communicate with the 3.3V panel eeprom bus..  I see he's already replied, too.  I have added the 50G20B to my list as well to investigate for PMCv1 support.  Until then, however, I'll have to refer you to mironto's site if you want to go the DIY route.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post


The procedure should be the same, Panasonic seems to have changed the connectors for 2010 models, however. At least for VT20 model keramt posted

For the 11-pin connector they did not use JST PHR-11 anymore but from what I can tell probably NSH or GH family. If you have 20-pin connector, you could use JST SHLDP-20V-S(B) or SHLDP-20V-S-1(B) (if you can find one).

Could you please verify what service connectors you have on the back of the TV (post a picture if not sure)?

 

Yes, pictures work really well.  When I go through the service manuals I will be looking at voltages, pinouts, and connector part numbers.  I hope to know more, for many more models, in a week or two..

 

cheers,

..dane


 
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post #10990 of 11226 Old 11-05-2013, 09:16 AM
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I have updated the table at http://audiodane.dandk.org/pmcv1/ to the list of model numbers that I am currently aware of as well as which models I have service manuals for.  As you can see, the list is huge.  I am hoping that some on the list fall off because they're the wrong model year.  I'm also expecting several to be missing, such as non-US models, since I am largely unaware of how non-US models are labeled.


With that list updated, and with the 30+ documents that I now have (thank you all for your links to service manuals and websites!), I have plenty to start working through.

 

There is one website in particular that I would like access to, but it's Hungarian and I don't know how to register.  Without registering, I can only download two documents per day.  The site is http://elektrotanya.com/.  If you know how to register, please let me know.  I suspect that I can use Google Translator, but I have plenty to keep me busy for the coming week before I do that..

 

cheers,
..dane


 
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post #10991 of 11226 Old 11-05-2013, 11:08 AM
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You can scratch off any ST/GT/VT 30 and 50 as those are 2011 and 2012 models (Japanese find 4 an unlucky number so they skipped it :-) not bearing the rising black algorithm. The European models have TX prefix instead of TC and they end in E (the UK models end in B) and they do not come in the same sizes for each model line as in US/NA.

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post #10992 of 11226 Old 11-07-2013, 02:57 AM
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I have a TX-P46Z1. I will make this hour reset in the next days. But I am worry about following:

I am not sure but I think that not only the darklevel rise with every "voltage-step" also the whole brightness of the picture.

Some people in this forum report that the blacklevel seams to became better because of the aging of the tv. The question is: How much will this aging influence the Brightness of the Picture if I reset to 0 hours.

If I reset to 0 hours the black Level would be superb but perhabs the whole TV picture is to dark!

Have someone experience with this after reset?
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post #10993 of 11226 Old 11-08-2013, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_65 View Post

I have a TX-P46Z1. I will make this hour reset in the next days. But I am worry about following:

I am not sure but I think that not only the darklevel rise with every "voltage-step" also the whole brightness of the picture.

Some people in this forum report that the blacklevel seams to became better because of the aging of the tv. The question is: How much will this aging influence the Brightness of the Picture if I reset to 0 hours.

If I reset to 0 hours the black Level would be superb but perhabs the whole TV picture is to dark!

Have someone experience with this after reset?

 

I am not an expert, but my understanding is the "improvement" in the first hundred or so hours is due to the cells operating and "breaking in" so to speak (to borrow a term from other industries).  I do not believe the improvement in the first hundred hours as anything to do with the aging compensation algorithm that we are resetting here.  So you should get the best of both worlds with this reset-- broken-in cells after hundreds of hours of use, but without the increased voltage (higher MLL) due to the seemingly over-aggressive aging compensation algorithm in these sets.

 

miro put together one fine DIY guide.  You should have no troubles.  Someday (hopefully soon) my PMCv1 will be ready too so you won't have to keep resetting manually every couple hundred hours..

 

let us know how you fair!

..dane

 

ps. - if it's too dark you can always adjust the brightness on the set.  But, I highly doubt you will complain about it..  You'll just tear up at how sweet an image it is, like the eventual return of a long-lost love.  You'll want to hold it and cuddle up with it... you'll want to sit with your TV by the crackling fire watching almost anything, but especially a good bluray..   So if you're married, make sure you wife knows it's just a sweet reunion and that she'll have your full attention again soon.. 


 
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post #10994 of 11226 Old 11-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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I (against most advice i see) had my black level set to dark on my tv. After doing this adjustment i changed it to light and re ran the avs hd709 disc. everything looks so much better now.

if you aren't aware of that disc i highly recommend you use it http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

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post #10995 of 11226 Old 11-14-2013, 02:18 AM
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I did the reset to 0 of the 2900 hours on my TX-P46Z1.

As you can see it in the pictures the black Level is better now. But it is not the level from out of the box. Perhabs it depands of the age of the Panel. I don't know.

I want to Change the program to make the reset automaticly.

the steps:

waiting for 5V on PIN1 from TV
switching PIN 10 to GRD with arduino Output(Relay)
do the reset
disconnact PIN 10 from GRD (Relay)

perhabs there is enough time between (Power on 5V)and (TV want to communicate with the EEPROM).


Is it possible to reset the EEPROM without switching off / on the TV? Is it a Problem to connect Pin 10 ( I2C_CONT (I2C Control)) to GRD while the TV is on?



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post #10996 of 11226 Old 11-20-2013, 11:24 AM
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I seriously cannot wait until the PMC becomes available. It's even more nerve racking as I can see my v10 is already supported!
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post #10997 of 11226 Old 11-20-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sole_Survivor View Post

Turn the set on
Press the minus -volume ON THE TV not the remote, and the menu button on the remote, hit both at the same time..For like 7 seconds...you'll see a screen pop up with some info crap on it...
Then ON THE TV, not the remote...hold in the power button until it shuts off, it may turn on again by itself... then unplug the wire from the back panel (to get at it faster) for 5 minutes. When you plug it back in it will be like out of the box.
This for the 2009 S1... not sure if they all reset this way. Before you do so have 2.35 blu ray & look at the bars in a dark room real good, then after the reset compare.
Hope it works on your set. BTW. we never saw the horrible blueish screens some posted here, like I posted a week ago, a lot of S1 ownwers measured little mll rise, (as intened) or no rise at all.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=8196
I did notice a little compared to my newer set,,,but like I said I knew Panny designed it this way as all plasma's rise, not that big of a deal, but I read VA_DaveB's post, so rather than just unplug it... I figured he F$^&# the voltage regulator somehow, so I figured to do both, reset as well as unplug it.


Hello Sole_Survivor/Guys:

 

This method worked for me!! I have a 2011 (yes 2011!) 42 Panasonic Plasma, model TC-P42X3X.

 

My TV has a record of 2488 hours and the TV has been turned almost 1500 times.

 

As Sole_Survivor said it looks like a bug for some sets (not all ones) that affects some TVs after 2300-2400 hours. I have very detailed eyes and yes I like plasma due to the better image quality compared to LED.

 

Not sure if with a picture taken at the back of the TV (with the cover) you guys would know what panel Panasonic used with my TV.

 

I do not see the factory service port as well at the back of the TV.

 

Thanks again Sole_Survivor!

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post #10998 of 11226 Old 11-21-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dpaul007 View Post

I seriously cannot wait until the PMC becomes available. It's even more nerve racking as I can see my v10 is already supported!

 

Hi paul.. 

 

As I predicted, the encroaching holiday season, coupled with some home redecorating, has wreaked total havoc on PMCv1 development.  I have had a chance to look at a FEW datasheets, and have found some models that will NOT be supported (missing panel eeprom I2C bus!), at least for now.  I am hoping beyond hope that the coming week I will be able to catch up and look at EVERY datasheet that i have listed on the PMCv1 Availability page.  We have a family worship event Friday, Thanksgiving next week, followed by a belated 13th anniversary celebration with my wife, then we move into Christmas holidays.  Man oh man, why is Autumn so packed??  Anyhoo, here's hoping that I'll get some time on my hands in the coming week!

 

I'm thankful for Miro's site once again, for those who just cannot wait, so that they at least have one option to reset their own black levels!  Hopefully PMCv1 will be not too far off..

 

..dane


 
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post #10999 of 11226 Old 11-22-2013, 03:38 AM
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Dane, I'm from Argentina, you could send the PMCv1?, I have a 46g10.
I can pay by credit card and pay pal
Thank you very much and congratulations for the great work you are doing!!!
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post #11000 of 11226 Old 11-22-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bendergender View Post

Dane, I'm from Argentina, you could send the PMCv1?, I have a 46g10.
I can pay by credit card and pay pal
Thank you very much and congratulations for the great work you are doing!!!

 

Hi bg- I am not very familiar with international shipping, but will of course look into it.  There is even an option to list it on eBay using eBay's international shipping option, which is easier for me..  I ship for free to the eBay shipping center, but you will be responsible for whatever international shipping charges may exist from there.  That is an option.  I may be able to ship directly for a fee.  When PMCv1 is ready, I will investigate international shipping for you and others.

 

thanks for your interest,

..dane


 
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post #11001 of 11226 Old 11-24-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

Hi bg- I am not very familiar with international shipping, but will of course look into it.  There is even an option to list it on eBay using eBay's international shipping option, which is easier for me..  I ship for free to the eBay shipping center, but you will be responsible for whatever international shipping charges may exist from there.  That is an option.  I may be able to ship directly for a fee.  When PMCv1 is ready, I will investigate international shipping for you and others.

thanks for your interest,
..dane

Thanks Dane!!!

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post #11002 of 11226 Old 12-05-2013, 05:57 AM
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Hey Dane
Any updates?
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post #11003 of 11226 Old 12-05-2013, 10:17 AM
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.. only that we had a fantastic thanksgiving holiday with family and my wife and I followed that with a short trip to the mountains to celebrate an anniversary.  As expected, holiday busy-ness is in full force on top of normal life schedules..  christmas tree, holiday programs, medical appointments, yadda yadda..  I'm trying..  but time is painfully unavailable right now.  :(    I really wish I had better news to give.  Unfortunately this is a hobby gig on top of a full time job plus family priorities.  I have not abandoned or forgotten this project.  My wife actually brought it up yesterday, so it is clearly on both our minds..

 

On a mostly-unrelated note, a relative of mine is looking for a plasma TV..  I recommended the panasonic ST60 family but even the 50" is out of his price range by a few hundred bucks.  I'm not sure if anyone here knows of anyone near the Atlanta area trying to offload a well loved Panasonic Plasma at a reasonable cost, if so, PM me..  It will be their first HD set, and I'm trying to get them a great set on a very tight budget.  Still steering them towards Plasmas but it seems low-cost plasmas have undesirable compromises too. :(

 

..dane


 
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post #11004 of 11226 Old 12-05-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

..On a mostly-unrelated note, a relative of mine is looking for a plasma TV..  I recommended the panasonic ST60 family but even the 50" is out of his price range by a few hundred bucks.  I'm not sure if anyone here knows of anyone near the Atlanta area trying to offload a well loved Panasonic Plasma at a reasonable cost, if so, PM me..  It will be their first HD set, and I'm trying to get them a great set on a very tight budget.  Still steering them towards Plasmas but it seems low-cost plasmas have undesirable compromises too. frown.gif

..dane


How about the Panny S60 series? About $300 less than the ST-series in a 50" and still a very respectable entry-level plasma.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50s60/4505-6482_7-35558333.html

Panny Plasma Junkie: TC-P50VT20, TC-P50G15, TH-42PX60U
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post #11005 of 11226 Old 12-12-2013, 07:57 PM
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Should this black level reset be performed after the completed rise cycle on the TV? Is it a good idea to perform the reset if your TV has only reached the first rise point? Is it going to affect the stability of the panel elements if performed before the leveling off period of the black level increase?
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post #11006 of 11226 Old 12-12-2013, 10:03 PM
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Don't tell me you have under 300 hours on your 5 years old plasma :-)

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #11007 of 11226 Old 12-14-2013, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mironto View Post

Don't tell me you have under 300 hours on your 5 years old plasma :-)


Well,I've only had mine for about 4yrs. and it doesn't get used for TV viewing, just movies. I'm pretty sure it's past the first rise. Is it best to use this fix after the last rise?
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post #11008 of 11226 Old 12-15-2013, 12:14 AM
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It does not matter as far as I can tell. The algorithm checks the hours in order to khow how much it has to adjust the panel (1st, 2nd, 3rd rise). If you program in enough hours, you can set it for whichever rise you want.

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #11009 of 11226 Old 12-15-2013, 08:19 PM
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I understand what your saying and can't thank you enough for coming up with this awesome solution.I'm just concerned about the possibility of adversely affecting the performance of the panel if the panel hasn't reached it's pre-determined break in state.

I mean,Panasonic set these rises (even if it's now known that they made them too aggressive on these models) to prevent misfiring pixels and extend the life of the panel.Obviously,these TV's will fail long before the "claimed 100,000hr." half brightness of the panel.I'm just wondering if anyone thinks or knows if doing the black level rise reset, before the last and final rise, could effect the performance of the panel in general.

I've noticed the rise on mine since it was new (the screen glows more noticeable now in complete darkness with a black screen than before) and I would love to reset it.I just haven't heard of anyone doing it with really low hours or if there are any noticeable negative effects to the panel over time from doing so.

If you really don't think it matters then I'm willing to give it a go.
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post #11010 of 11226 Old 12-16-2013, 02:16 AM
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I wish I was smart enough to come up with such a solution by myself. I just put together the detailed guide on how to proceed with the reset. But I guess applying the reset on a set that has not gone through all three rises (btw. this is still a speculation that there are only three rises - maybe there are more programmed till the set reaches 100,000 hours?) should be no different than on a set with three rises.
The set has even other temporary rises programmed in depending on the operating temperature of the curcuits http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291382/zero-black-level-pdp-research/30#post_20121278 so I guess it should be perfectly safe to reset the MLL even with just one rise. You can always store the values from the EEPROM and if you see pixels misfiring after the reset, you can always program in the hours back.

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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