Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 376 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:13 PM
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First post, and it's very much one of desperation. Let's just say I'm looking forward to the opportunity to purchase one of Dane's PMCv1 devices. My TC-P42S1 apparently crossed another black level threshold this evening and it's now terrible. Black doesn't really even exist on this panel anymore (see pic taken earlier this evening, no signal on an HDMI input in a nearly dark room...utterly pathetic). I have to get another 5 or 6 years out of this TV and can't afford to chuck it--which I most certainly would if I could spare the money for a new set. I'll never buy anything from Panasonic again (though if I understand news reports correctly, that may just resolve on its own).

Anyway, thank you Dane for your efforts and hard work on this! I'm sure there will be a lot of happy Panny owners as a result very, very soon.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance1320 View Post
First post, and it's very much one of desperation. Let's just say I'm looking forward to the opportunity to purchase one of Dane's PMCv1 devices. My TC-P42S1 apparently crossed another black level threshold this evening and it's now terrible. Black doesn't really even exist on this panel anymore (see pic taken earlier this evening, no signal on an HDMI input in a nearly dark room...utterly pathetic). I have to get another 5 or 6 years out of this TV and can't afford to chuck it--which I most certainly would if I could spare the money for a new set. I'll never buy anything from Panasonic again (though if I understand news reports correctly, that may just resolve on its own).

Anyway, thank you Dane for your efforts and hard work on this! I'm sure there will be a lot of happy Panny owners as a result very, very soon.
I checked hours today on my set...it's closing in on 11,000 and based on when I purchased it, it averages about 6 hours of operation per day.
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:47 PM
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I just resetted my 50G10 using Mironto's method and its like day and night.
I will probably still buy Audiodane PCM's has its a more automatic solution.

Here's the before and after pics taken in my dark basement with no flash on camera.
I should've put an 1080p movie but i was in a rush to reset my panny...
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:16 PM
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That looks so bad, just like mine. If it looks like the ST30 I have I'd be happy. I think those two are spec'd at about .008ftl and this thing is looking like the .028 or so that's been reported, what a shame. Anyway, thanks for the pics. That looks nice!
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:02 AM
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AudioDane news

Looks like we're close to get the permanent fix...!

Can't post link but feel free to check Audiodane blog.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:25 PM
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Sounds like we are getting close to ordering.

Last edited by eaayoung; 09-22-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 09-21-2014, 01:03 AM
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Hi. I reset my 50VT20 using Mirontos guide this weekend.

Went down to 0.005 ftl from 3x that high. Thanks for the great help on regaining a new TV!

The only problem is I am now seeing the floating black problem of the VT20 2010 model. When the screen is dark the letterbox bars are reading my new blacks, but when a brighter scene shows the blacks float up to 3x higher again.

I will have to search for a fix to this probl now. On blank output though I have achieved a 3x reduction in MLL from before to after.

Great stuff and thanks for the help Mironto
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Old 09-21-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crudesinger View Post
Hi. I reset my 50VT20 using Mirontos guide this weekend.

Went down to 0.005 ftl from 3x that high. Thanks for the great help on regaining a new TV!

The only problem is I am now seeing the floating black problem of the VT20 2010 model. When the screen is dark the letterbox bars are reading my new blacks, but when a brighter scene shows the blacks float up to 3x higher again.

I will have to search for a fix to this probl now. On blank output though I have achieved a 3x reduction in MLL from before to after.

Great stuff and thanks for the help Mironto
interesting.
thanks for the numbers.
50 inch?

if I remember correctly
58-65 ran .0027 new
50 ran ,0038 new

Loving D65
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Old 09-21-2014, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
interesting.
thanks for the numbers.
50 inch?

if I remember correctly
58-65 ran .0027 new
50 ran ,0038 new
Hi. 50" pretty close to your quoted number from new. I am using i1d3 oem. Could easily be measurement difference.
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Old 09-21-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Crudesinger View Post
Hi. 50" pretty close to your quoted number from new. I am using i1d3 oem. Could easily be measurement difference.
sounds like the fix got it close to new.

Loving D65
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:49 AM
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Hi, Here is my set up for the VT20 with the smaller GH connector in the attached photo. Pretty small to work with so I had to use the very small gauge wire and splice it with the jumper wire male ends. Seemed to work. I did have some trouble reading the values from the software but the scripts load up fine and seemed to do the job. I do not think my wiring job is very robust, but managed to get the result. Thanks for all the excellent research the people on this thread have done.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:38 AM
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Instead of using single wires and making a cable yourself, use an old USB cable, strip out the outer layer, then the individual wires, this way you get a longer cable and save time on "creating" a cable.

My 2c.
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:09 PM
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Just read Audiodane's most recent blog and it seems that we of the black level problem will soon be back in "business." I'm no technician, but it does seem to me that Audiodane is doing a bang-up job on getting his adapter into shipping shape. His product does look real good and I can't wait to get it, but I do have one question that I don't think I have see asked before. Although AD is testing each unit, I'd like to know how he will be handling malfunctioning units and warranties???
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:50 AM
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1) I have no doubt AD will stand behind what he's done. I just hope we compensate him fairly.

2) Is there a "list" to get on to be able to get some of the first units ? Or maybe it's just first come, first serve on Paypal.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Just read Audiodane's most recent blog and it seems that we of the black level problem will soon be back in "business." I'm no technician, but it does seem to me that Audiodane is doing a bang-up job on getting his adapter into shipping shape. His product does look real good and I can't wait to get it, but I do have one question that I don't think I have see asked before. Although AD is testing each unit, I'd like to know how he will be handling malfunctioning units and warranties???
Hello flycaster.. Thank you for your kind words. This has been a labor of love and a hobby project.. I have been wanting to build this unit for myself, and thought there might be a market for it (seems I was right). I have tried to build a professional product at garage-lab prices, but at the end of the day I'm still just a garage-lab hobbiest. I do have roughly 14 years of electrical engineering design experience and well over 20 years of programming experience, and I have used all of these skills to create the PMCv1.

I will do my best to support the product and the customer, but there is very little I can do that I haven't already designed into the PMCv1. It's algorithms have been designed around the electronic behavior of my set (IIC communication timing windows, TV set power on/off timing windows, etc). If someone else's set has different timing mechanisms, there's not going to be much I can do unless I somehow am able to get copies of those timing charts and use it to improve the PMCv1 software. Currently the PMCv1 software pays very careful attention to measure when the TV is turned on, as well as reading back the EEPROM values after it updates them to double-check that the TV actually "took" the values. If successful, it blinks one pattern. If not, it blinks another pattern. Also, I have built in an "UNDO" switch to help protect against any problems caused by the PMCv1. Basically, the first time it updates your EEPROM values, it stores off the OLD values from the EEPROM.. If something doesn't work right, you can flip the switch from "GO" to "UN" and the next time the TV turns on it will once again update EEPROM value, but this time by restoring the original values read off before the first update, returning the EEPROM value to the "last known good values." Hopefully this is enough to recover from any problems.

Now, even with all of that said, I also know enough about business that there is no way with the currently product pricing that I can offer any sort of liability and/or warranty service. (Heck, at this pricing and low quantity I can't even make a pretty box for it; I just have to use shrink-tubing to protect the critical electronics.) The PMCv1 will strictly be sold on a "use at your own risk" basis, and that is part of the paperwork that I now need to get together as the sales page is almost live (I've started testing the shopping cart mechanism this week, you may have noticed if you've been to the site lately). If I were a large company or had dozens of products for sale, maybe I could take out some business insurance, but with a single product line and it priced so low, there's just no money left to put into an insurance plan. Furthermore, I only have one Panasonic Plasma (TC-P50G10).. The best I can offer is to do my best to understand the research found here in this thread, communicate offline with mironto to double-check my algorithms (since his DIY approach has been fairly widely tested successfully and is the basis of the PMCv1), and come up with the best reasonable test mechanism to verify each unit is functioning properly before putting it in an envelope. I have been doing all of these things, but you assessed correctly that there is no way I can guarantee that a PMCv1 will function correctly on YOUR set.

So, my current plan is to somehow gather feedback from customers (but without sending nagging emails) regarding how the unit performed, and turn back around and share that information (model number and feedback only of course, no customer names) on the PMCv1 page where others can use that information in an effort to increase their comfort level. If anyone has any suggestions of a better approach, please -- I am *ALL EARS* ..

I'm sorry this reply has been so long. I should probably find a way to capture this information on the PMCv1 site.. But I hope that helps set some minds at ease. My mind won't be "at ease" until every customer has replied with "it works!" ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgguy View Post
1) I have no doubt AD will stand behind what he's done. I just hope we compensate him fairly.

2) Is there a "list" to get on to be able to get some of the first units ? Or maybe it's just first come, first serve on Paypal.
1) Thank you Avgguy, there have been some who have suggested that the USD$60 price point is too low for this product.. There have been others who have said it is too high. All I can do is hope for the best. If the PMCv1 works for you and you wish to provide an additional token of your appreciation, then you are always more than welcome to followup with a paypal donation! Maybe I should put THAT on the product page!

2) Right or wrong, I intentionally denied preorders and/or prepayments, because I could not be subject to another master (those that know their Christian Bible will understand that reference). I knew that a long schedule would upset prepaying customers, and the last thing I needed was more people breathing down my neck. There is a newsletter subscription that I offered to automatically send updates when I added new development blog entries, and that's the closest thing I've had to knowing how many people may be interested in actually buying a PMCv1...

But back to your question- the best I can do right now is offer first-come-first-serve. I can say that when the sale page goes live, I will update the blog, and at 11am the next day central time an email will automatically be sent notifying update subscribers that the sales page is live. I may try to time the sales page going live with the update email (e.g. putting the sales page live close to the time the newsletter goes out) to give newsletter subscribers the best chance at being "first in line." One problem I haven't yet solved is that the shopping cart system doesn't let me put a quantity in (yet) ... I hope to have that fixed in time. But if not, then I will simply offer a 100% refund on the sale if I cannot fulfill an order request. At this point, selling out too fast is the least of my concerns!

cheers,
..dane
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:36 AM
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Hey Audiodane, just keep up the good work and I'll be among the first to order. Although I know things can go wrong, even under the most controlled conditions, from your credentials and your thoughtful answers to questions and excellent update blogging, I have the utmost confidence that the PMCv1 stands a great chance of being error free.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:52 PM
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I haven't visited this forum for a while. Can't believe it's over a year since I put together the guide with the help of the fantastic members of this forum. As I still have some 20 PH connectors left, I had an idea that I spend one or two evenings with soldering iron and complete the whole cable needed for connecting the TV to Arduino board like the one I have for my set.

Would there be any interest in such a cable for those, who are not planning to use Audiodane's PMCv1 device? I thought that by this time I would be long time out of connectors so I am trying to find out whether there are so few owners of the "old" plasmas or the DIY approach seems so much difficult. The timing on my offer seems to be colliding with what I believe is Audiodane's launch date of PMCv1 so I hope nobody will see it as some sort of competition for his device (which I am sure will be a success) but I want to get the fix to some more unhappy Panny's users.

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Hey Audiodane, just keep up the good work and I'll be among the first to order. Although I know things can go wrong, even under the most controlled conditions, from your credentials and your thoughtful answers to questions and excellent update blogging, I have the utmost confidence that the PMCv1 stands a great chance of being error free.
Thanks flycaster..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mironto View Post
I haven't visited this forum for a while. Can't believe it's over a year since I put together the guide with the help of the fantastic members of this forum. As I still have some 20 PH connectors left, I had an idea that I spend one or two evenings with soldering iron and complete the whole cable needed for connecting the TV to Arduino board like the one I have for my set.

[..img removed..]

Would there be any interest in such a cable for those, who are not planning to use Audiodane's PMCv1 device? I thought that by this time I would be long time out of connectors so I am trying to find out whether there are so few owners of the "old" plasmas or the DIY approach seems so much difficult. The timing on my offer seems to be colliding with what I believe is Audiodane's launch date of PMCv1 so I hope nobody will see it as some sort of competition for his device (which I am sure will be a success) but I want to get the fix to some more unhappy Panny's users.
Wow that's a great looking cable, mironto! Just wanted to reply to assure you that the two items are not competing at all and if you are able to package up some nice cables for some folks, that would be great (for you and for them)!

cheers,
..dane
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:41 AM
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G30

Hi, I am trying to restore black level on my G30 plasma, but i am a little bit confused. On my plasma service connector is quite different and has 14 pins. Could you help me please to find a right connector to buy and which pin is which ?
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:58 AM
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That looks like the same GH connector which was used in 2010 model range but 14 pin.
http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...ader=search_go
However, there should be no MLL rise in 2011 models, according to CNET and Panasonic. You sure your has risen?

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Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:54 AM
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Audiodane i saw in your site that sales should open up this week and i would like to ask if Panasonic TX-P42VT20E supported?
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:39 AM
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The V10 considered a 2010 model?

Main HT Room: Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV3, Sony BDP-S5100, Speakers: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers, Sierra Horizon and HTM-200SE, Dual Power Sound Audio XV15 Subwoofers
Basement HT Room: Panny TC-P58V10 (Black Level Restored!), Denon AVR-E300, Comcast X1 STB, Sony BDP-S590, Speakers: Wave Crest Audio HVL-1 (L/C/R), Pioneer SP-BS 22 (Surr) and Power Sound Audio XV15 Subwoofer
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:52 PM
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2009 I believe

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Epson 2030, Onkyo TX-NR626, and Kodi based system

Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:55 AM
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Hello everyone,

A few of you noticed yesterday that the PMCv1 installation guide had been posted to the PMCv1 page. Two of my engineering buddies both thought it looked great, but I had my wife read over it last night and it's now undergoing a hefty renovation.

The whole point of the PMCv1 is that you DON'T have to be an engineer to reset your TV. But the installation guide was still written in very much engineering terms.. (To my credit, what do you expect when an engineer writes the installation guide??) Anyway, I took it back down so that I could revise it based on her wonderful feedback.. It will be re-posted again soon, and of course a small hardcopy printout will be included with every PMCv1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luis67 View Post
Audiodane i saw in your site that sales should open up this week and i would like to ask if Panasonic TX-P42VT20E supported?
Based on what I've learned from mironto, the vt20e is a european version of the vt20. The vt20 is currently listed as "hopeful" on my chart, which means it looks like it might work but I need to investigate the schematics a bit further. (Most of the model number investigation occurred over Christmas break of 2013, and most of 2014 has been spent getting the PMCv1 ready for production and sale.)

I have on my to-do list to update the table and get back to looking at schematics AFTER the PMCv1 goes up for sale. I realize this is not the answer that you are looking for, but is the best I can give at the moment. Several people have sent me schematics throughout 2014 but I have had to put that off and get the PMCv1 done.

Looking again at the VT20 schematics, everything looks good. The table is pretty out of date and most likely a lot MORE models are supported than are shown, based upon the final version of the PMCv1 that I have today. However, how similar is the VT20E to the VT20? If mironto is right, then they'll be the same (in terms of the service connector). I like to verify with datasheets before I say "yes," however.

If you are subscribed to the PMCv1 mailing list, I will make a point to post an update there when I update the table of supported models. It will likely be later in October however as I'm trying to get the PMCv1 sale page up first..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post
The V10 considered a 2010 model?
Here's an easy breakdown:
2008: PZ80/PZ85/PZ800/PZ850
2009: Z1/V10/G15/G10/S1/S10/U1/X1/C1/C10/PX14
2010: VT25/VT20/V20/G25/G20/S2/U2/U20/X2/X20/C2/C20

If you notice, if the leftmost numerical digit is an "8" it is a 2008 model, a "1" is a 2009 model, and a "2" is a 2010 model. There are a few exceptions to this rule (the HD18 seems to be a 2008 model) but it seems to be accurate for the most common model numbers.. The supported models table on the website is still in need of updating, but I have at least added the model year to each entry..

cheers,
..dane
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:32 AM
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^ dane, thanks for the breakdown. I had asked before... if a PZ80 currently measuring 0.017 ftL @ 4000 hrs has been affected by rising blacks or it's just my imagination?

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Old 10-08-2014, 08:07 AM
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46 inch G10.

Have a G10 46 inch that I've been running in custom mode (Randy's settings) since July 2009 so you can imagine how bright mine is.


Very glad to see that you will be re writing the manual in easy to understand terms. I most of the time feel like I'm a 2nd grader in college when you guys start in.


Will this be just a plug it in to the 11 pin connector, answer a few questions on the screen and your set or will there be a little more to it than this? Looking forward to this and another thanks for the work you've put into this.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Audiodane here is the service connector rear of Panasonic TX-P42VT20E
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:06 AM
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Hi Luis67.

This connector is the same as my VT20 from NZ. The reset worked using Mirontos guide on mine so you will likely be in luck.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
^ dane, thanks for the breakdown. I had asked before... if a PZ80 currently measuring 0.017 ftL @ 4000 hrs has been affected by rising blacks or it's just my imagination?
Unfortunately I'm not the one to answer that question. I know electronics design, not before/after MLL rise numbers. Hopefully someone else will be able to chime in and answer your question. That said, if the PMCv1 does work for you and you can measure the change, I would love some feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warrior View Post
Very glad to see that you will be re writing the manual in easy to understand terms. I most of the time feel like I'm a 2nd grader in college when you guys start in.

Will this be just a plug it in to the 11 pin connector, answer a few questions on the screen and your set or will there be a little more to it than this? Looking forward to this and another thanks for the work you've put into this.
Ha ha ha .. thanks for the note Warrior. As an engineer, I sometimes get WAY deep, WAY too fast. My wife is a good lifeline to reality!

Your description on installation is actually TOO COMPLICATED. It's more like, Plug it in, Make sure the Green LED turns on, and then you're done! Put the cover back in place and forget about it. There *ARE* more instructions, but they only apply if something goes wrong. Hopefully, I won't have ANY reports of anyone needing those additional troubleshooting steps..

Quote:
Originally Posted by luis67 View Post
Audiodane here is the service connector rear of Panasonic TX-P42VT20E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crudesinger View Post
This connector is the same as my VT20 from NZ. The reset worked using Mirontos guide on mine so you will likely be in luck.
I agree, this looks like the standard 11pin 2010 connector. There are two concerns with connectors- first, the physical connector. Check. Second, what we call the "pinout" or which wires go to which pins on the connector. I *highly* doubt that a VT20E would be wired differently than a VT20, so we're probably good to go. But as already stated, I cannot guarantee or offer a warranty.

Hopefully the folks who are willing to take a chance will provide feedback with their model information so we can start growing the list of "known good" combinations that work with the PMCv1..

cheers,
..dane
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:27 PM
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Talking

Audiodane here is the service manual of Panasonic TX-P42GT20B which is closest to TX-P42VT20E using the same GPF13DSE Chassis
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Last edited by luis67; 10-10-2014 at 03:47 AM.
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