Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 384 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11491 of 11515 Old 12-14-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
I received an email from a PMCv1 customer recently concerned that they hadn't observed the 150hr re-clear event yet, but they were sure that it has been more than 150hrs. I shared his concern for my own TV, which clearly is still maintaining its black level properly, but I don't recall having to do the power on-power off-power on thing again lately. I asked my wife if her or the kids have noticed the TV "not coming on" recently, and she said no (but then again, they're kids, so...)

On my particular unit, I've had an SD-Card based log attached for several months, and so I was able to pull off the log file and have a look at it. I have not yet had a chance to study it fully, but I was able to confirm in fact that my set was re-cleared recently, even though it did not seem to require the power cycling again like when first installed..

I wanted to ask if anyone else is pretty sure that their TV has accrued at least 150hrs since installing the PMCv1, and that they can clearly tell the black levels are still "good" even though they have NOT had to turn the TV off and on again due to the expected re-clearing event?

thanks,
..dane
My P50X1 has reset 2x since I installed the PMCv1. Found the PMCv1 with green leds blinking and had to power off/on to clear the reset.

Works great.
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post #11492 of 11515 Old 12-14-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeky View Post
My P50X1 has reset 2x since I installed the PMCv1. Found the PMCv1 with green leds blinking and had to power off/on to clear the reset.

Works great.
I just found this thread while reading up on my F8500... I have a 42G10 with ~5670 hours on it and the black levels are terrible! I wish I knew about it earlier.


I just pre-ordered the PMCv2, does anyone in the Houston area have a PMCv1 I can borrow in the meantime?

Have a question? AIM me: supremeMilo
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post #11493 of 11515 Old 12-14-2014, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeky View Post
My P50X1 has reset 2x since I installed the PMCv1. Found the PMCv1 with green leds blinking and had to power off/on to clear the reset.

Works great.
Thanks for the feedback sneeky- I recall one or two folks indicating that even on their first installation they didn't have to do the turn-off/turn-on thing. I haven't yet figured out the cause for difference. I had originally HOPED that the PMCv1 would operate that way of course.. Maybe we'll figure out the differences (why some require turning off/on and some don't) sooner than later..

cheers,
..dane
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post #11494 of 11515 Old 12-15-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
I received an email from a PMCv1 customer recently concerned that they hadn't observed the 150hr re-clear event yet, but they were sure that it has been more than 150hrs. I shared his concern for my own TV, which clearly is still maintaining its black level properly, but I don't recall having to do the power on-power off-power on thing again lately. I asked my wife if her or the kids have noticed the TV "not coming on" recently, and she said no (but then again, they're kids, so...)

On my particular unit, I've had an SD-Card based log attached for several months, and so I was able to pull off the log file and have a look at it. I have not yet had a chance to study it fully, but I was able to confirm in fact that my set was re-cleared recently, even though it did not seem to require the power cycling again like when first installed..

I wanted to ask if anyone else is pretty sure that their TV has accrued at least 150hrs since installing the PMCv1, and that they can clearly tell the black levels are still "good" even though they have NOT had to turn the TV off and on again due to the expected re-clearing event?

thanks,
..dane
I've lost count of exactly how many times that the PMCv1 on my panel has performed it's "auto-reset" function, but it's been at least 4 times - most likely 5 or 6. Works perfectly each and every time!

Many thanks once again, Dane.

Best regards,
Lloyd C.


Last edited by Lloyd-TX; 12-15-2014 at 10:02 AM.
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post #11495 of 11515 Old 12-16-2014, 06:51 AM
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If there are some Panny owners who cannot wait for PMCv2, I've got last 10 Arduino DIY cables left. It's very unlikely I will ever order more JST connectors and crimps in the future, so this is your last chance to get the pre-made cable. I've used most of the connectors/crimps for assembling the cables, but still got a couple of unused connectors/crimps for the ones willing to solder the cable themselves.
http://panasonic.mironto.sk/hardware...jst_connector/
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Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #11496 of 11515 Old 12-22-2014, 02:37 PM
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I have been going in circles trying to find a direct answer on how to get to the service connection / port on my Panasonic TC-P50G25. I'm likely going to buy audiodane's PMCv2 or try out mironto's guide for DIY, so I'm just trying to figure out how to get to that A-board connector.

Do I have to take off the back cover for the tv or is there a panel that I'm not seeing?

I have not found any pictures that show the location of the panel, but there is a post in this forum that shows the connection after the panel has been removed, and someone else commented that it was very similar to their VT60 if I recall correctly.

If anyone has had success with their G25 and resetting the blacks, please let me know.

Mine was purchased late 2010, had a power supply that died and was replaced in 2012 and has been running great, but the blacks are driving me crazy. Especially the rising blacks during dark scenes where the black takes a second to adjust to the scene.... incredibly annoying.

Any help to get me back to my pristine viewing experience and stop my eye from twitching every time I watch a dark movie, would be greatly appreciated.
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post #11497 of 11515 Old 12-22-2014, 04:13 PM
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The location should be similar to TC-P42G25. Check the pictures on my DIY page
http://panasonic.mironto.sk/restorin...ice_connector/
There should be a black sticker instead of plastic cover.
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post #11498 of 11515 Old 12-22-2014, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mironto View Post
The location should be similar to TC-P42G25. Check the pictures on my DIY page
...
There should be a black sticker instead of plastic cover.
Thank you!

When searching on "service" and "connector" or any variation, it didn't come up with anything other than it being attached to the A-board, which wasn't much more help from what I can see in the service manual, and I thought it was behind that little plate / sticker, but when I picked at it, it didn't seem to want to come off easily so I got a bit nervous and stopped messing with it.

Is it a sticker or a plate of some kind? Do I need to use a small screwdriver and pry it off?

Thanks again for the quick response, I very much appreciate it!
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post #11499 of 11515 Old 12-22-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask_jay View Post
...but when I picked at it, it didn't seem to want to come off easily so I got a bit nervous and stopped messing with it.

Is it a sticker or a plate of some kind? Do I need to use a small screwdriver and pry it off?

Had a similar experience with a GT25. The sticker has a "firmness" to it. I used a small jeweler's screwdriver to get under a couple corners.
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post #11500 of 11515 Old 12-23-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask_jay View Post
Thank you!

When searching on "service" and "connector" or any variation, it didn't come up with anything other than it being attached to the A-board, which wasn't much more help from what I can see in the service manual, and I thought it was behind that little plate / sticker, but when I picked at it, it didn't seem to want to come off easily so I got a bit nervous and stopped messing with it.

Is it a sticker or a plate of some kind? Do I need to use a small screwdriver and pry it off?

Thanks again for the quick response, I very much appreciate it!
Like montanaman said, just work at it starting with one of the corners. I used my fingernail at first and then carefully pried it up without bending the plate. It's fairly ridged and has a sticky coating applied to the back of it, but since it only makes contact with the edges of the service port, once you get it started the plate should lift right off fairly easily. I'm stating the obvious, but make sure not to get dust and debris on the plate adhesive so that it will stick to the service port again after you install the PMCv2.

Last edited by HD-Addict; 12-23-2014 at 10:50 AM.
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post #11501 of 11515 Old 12-23-2014, 11:26 AM
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Does this help with floating blacks?

I'm curious if fixing the rising blacks has helped anyone with floating blacks?

I know the two are separate, but I've noticed that as the blacks have risen on my G25, so have the floating blacks. I've tried everything I can to get rid of them, and D-Nice's settings have helped quite a bit to get them to be less noticed, but during night viewing with low to no light, watching a movie like Snitch or Dark Knight, there are plenty of scenes where the floating blacks are annoying to the point of distracting you from the movie itself.

Does resetting the hours for the blacks happen to make the floating blacks less obvious or worse? Has anyone found a genuine fix for the floating blacks? I've read that shining a light into the CATS sensor helps, but I have a hard time understanding how that works if what I've read about the floating blacks is true... that they are based on the output voltage of the scene according to its brightness? How would the CATS sensor help that if it's turned off?

I digress... I mostly just wanted to know if anyone has experienced a change in floating blacks when fixing the rising blacks.

Thanks again for everyone's responses!
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post #11502 of 11515 Old 12-24-2014, 02:57 PM
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I finally got around to installing my v1 last week and man I tell you it feels like I have a new TV again. I thought the difference would be more subtle but, to me, it was almost drastic. Excellent work and thank you for your efforts! Money well spent.
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post #11503 of 11515 Old 12-24-2014, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
I wanted to ask if anyone else is pretty sure that their TV has accrued at least 150hrs since installing the PMCv1, and that they can clearly tell the black levels are still "good" even though they have NOT had to turn the TV off and on again due to the expected re-clearing event?

thanks,
..dane
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
Thanks for the feedback sneeky- I recall one or two folks indicating that even on their first installation they didn't have to do the turn-off/turn-on thing. I haven't yet figured out the cause for difference. I had originally HOPED that the PMCv1 would operate that way of course.. Maybe we'll figure out the differences (why some require turning off/on and some don't) sooner than later..

cheers,
..dane

Mine did not require a restart when the PMCv1 was initially installed. Since I pulled the plug, it did go to the "Select Language" screen (thanks to audiodane for reminding me it was due to me pulling the plug during installation).

I do not remember having to do the turn-off turn-on any time after installation. I ordered it the 1st day it was available and installed it the same day it arrived (Oct 16th or so). Not sure how many hours since, but I had 8700 hours in 5 years or about 145hrs/month, so I figured over 300 hours. My black level is still excellent.

I remember audiodane mentioned a while ago the timing was just not sufficient to have the PMCv1 do it's job and leave the TV on. Could the timing on different samples vary just a bit to let this happen on some units? Mine is a 54V10 and has a manufacture date of Oct 09 (cannot see the serial number though).

Thanks again for audiodane's excellent work.

Happy Holidays for all.
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post #11504 of 11515 Old 12-25-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask_jay View Post
I'm curious if fixing the rising blacks has helped anyone with floating blacks?

I know the two are separate, but I've noticed that as the blacks have risen on my G25, so have the floating blacks. I've tried everything I can to get rid of them, and D-Nice's settings have helped quite a bit to get them to be less noticed, but during night viewing with low to no light, watching a movie like Snitch or Dark Knight, there are plenty of scenes where the floating blacks are annoying to the point of distracting you from the movie itself.

Does resetting the hours for the blacks happen to make the floating blacks less obvious or worse? Has anyone found a genuine fix for the floating blacks? I've read that shining a light into the CATS sensor helps, but I have a hard time understanding how that works if what I've read about the floating blacks is true... that they are based on the output voltage of the scene according to its brightness? How would the CATS sensor help that if it's turned off?

I digress... I mostly just wanted to know if anyone has experienced a change in floating blacks when fixing the rising blacks.

Thanks again for everyone's responses!
Hi,

The floating blacks became more noticeable on mine after the fix. This is because the blacks were restored.

I checked on windowed slides of different light output ad there are quite a few stages of floating black.

When the blacks are really good the floating stands out more when it happens

Crazy and quite rediculas feature really.

VT20 still way better for the rising blacks fix.
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post #11505 of 11515 Old 12-25-2014, 11:48 PM
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Merry Christmas to everyone.. I hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday. I had some major work deadlines keeping me from anything else but I managed to get all the PMCv2 boards and connector cables ordered in time. I finally made my last customer deadline (day-job work related) just before Christmas so I could enjoy a relaxing last two weeks of 2014.. I have the first-article samples of the connectors already (arrived christmas eve) and I need to double-check them but they are looking great. PMCv2 boards and the remainder of the cable order should be here late January. I was hoping early January for both but oh well. So the February ship date still seems most accurate (as is presented on the preorder page).

Everyone's fast asleep here and I'm not far behind, but I wanted to at least login somewhere and give a brief update. An update through the email notification on the website will go out in a few days; we have family in town and the little computer time I get during waking hours is currently spent getting my wife migrated to a replacement computer after hers died.

Anyhoo, things on the PMCv2 front are looking great!

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Originally Posted by zhe zhang View Post
Mine did not require a restart when the PMCv1 was initially installed. Since I pulled the plug, it did go to the "Select Language" screen (thanks to audiodane for reminding me it was due to me pulling the plug during installation).

I do not remember having to do the turn-off turn-on any time after installation. I ordered it the 1st day it was available and installed it the same day it arrived (Oct 16th or so). Not sure how many hours since, but I had 8700 hours in 5 years or about 145hrs/month, so I figured over 300 hours. My black level is still excellent.

I remember audiodane mentioned a while ago the timing was just not sufficient to have the PMCv1 do it's job and leave the TV on. Could the timing on different samples vary just a bit to let this happen on some units? Mine is a 54V10 and has a manufacture date of Oct 09 (cannot see the serial number though).

Thanks again for audiodane's excellent work.

Happy Holidays for all.
Hi Zhe, yes I remember our email conversation. I agree with your supposition, that while the PMCv1 could not "get in and back out" fast enough on my TV, it may be doing just that on yours and others. Certainly your noting the obvious and immediate change in black level corroborates that hypothesis. I have plenty of log data from my TV turning on and off over the past months, but I have not yet had time to go through it in great detail. I will try and get it posted soon and let some smart folks (with time on their hands) go through it for any clues they may find. I will say that at least glancing at it, I can clearly see where the TV crossed over the 150hrs mark and on the next power cycle it cleared just as it is designed to do..

I have had no reports of anyone seeing a "return of black level rise" even hundreds of hours after installing the PCMv1, so I am confident that it is doing its job even if it doesn't require the power off/on cycle once installed.

cheers,
..dane

Last edited by audiodane; 12-25-2014 at 11:51 PM.
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post #11506 of 11515 Old 01-01-2015, 08:02 AM
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Happy New Year!

I'm from Australia and just updating my details in regards to the purchase of the PMCv1 for my TH-65PZ850A.

The black level rise was so bad, I could read the paper when it was on a black/blank screen from the amount of light the TV was emitting in a dark room! As time went on and as the blacks rose, I was thinking to myself, the TV isn't the same since I bought it.

Prior to receiving this, the PMCv1, I did the reset a few times using an Arduino board and Mironto's guide, which works very well.

Upon seeing the automated process from Audiodane, I'd thought I'll give it a shot and purchase a unit.

Now, I'm glad I did.

I checked and prior to installing the PMCv1, I did the reset using Mironto's guide and straight after I installed the PMCv1 at the back, fits nicely inside the TV, as my cover for the service connector has a screw cap/lid. So you don't even see it.

Just the other day it did the reset, I switched the TV on and the power light on the TV went a solid green, but no picture at all. Which is what happens when using the Arduino board as well. Turned it off and then back on again and the TV works fine, with a great improvement in the black level.

It did the reset at around the 175 hour mark or so. I checked the hours via the Service Menu from when I installed it up until when it did the reset.

I am happy and the picture looks like a just bought a brand new TV! In other words, it works and that is awesome!

Thanks Mironto and Audiodane!

Cheers!
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post #11507 of 11515 Old 01-03-2015, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champ77 View Post
Prior to receiving this, the PMCv1, I did the reset a few times using an Arduino board and Mironto's guide, which works very well.

Upon seeing the automated process from Audiodane, I'd thought I'll give it a shot and purchase a unit.

Now, I'm glad I did.

[...]

I am happy and the picture looks like a just bought a brand new TV! In other words, it works and that is awesome!

Thanks Mironto and Audiodane!

Cheers!
Thanks Champ77 for such an awesome update. I am sure that mironto is as pleased as I am with your positive experience. It really does make for a refreshing revival of an awesome TV..

Do you mind me asking how long shipping took from eBay purchase date to receipt in the mail? And how beat-up the package was? All three of the PMCv1 units (that's 3%!) that were damaged in shipping occurred overseas.. I've made a few adjustments for PMCv2 units so try and minimize that percentage..

cheers,
..dane
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post #11508 of 11515 Old 01-04-2015, 07:45 AM
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I couldn't state unoquivicolly that I have enough hours, but I feel like I'm in the same boat as you.
Not that too many people are too worried about it, but I had to power cycle the TV (G10) the other day. I guess I had fewer hours than I thought (or maybe I missed it the first time).
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post #11509 of 11515 Old 01-05-2015, 03:08 PM
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Not that too many people are too worried about it, but I had to power cycle the TV (G10) the other day. I guess I had fewer hours than I thought (or maybe I missed it the first time).
My wife and I settled down to watch some Parenthood the other night and also had to do the turn-off-turn-on thing too.. So either the kids did it previously ("hey what's wrong? try turning it off and back on!") without us, or it didn't require it. I don't know that we'll ever know for sure since we have kids that use the TV sometimes without us in the room, but it is certainly working!

..dane
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post #11510 of 11515 Old 01-24-2015, 12:38 PM
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My wife and I settled down to watch some Parenthood the other night and also had to do the turn-off-turn-on thing too.. So either the kids did it previously ("hey what's wrong? try turning it off and back on!") without us, or it didn't require it. I don't know that we'll ever know for sure since we have kids that use the TV sometimes without us in the room, but it is certainly working!

..dane
...neat to find this thread and go back and re-read more about the Panny plasma 'problem' (the timeline on Dane's site brought back memories...I had previously read the earliest posts). Earlier today I placed an order for a v2 and anxiously but patiently await its arrival. Dane and those who preceded him in this effort are to be applauded for their effort. Reading stuff like this is what makes the internet fun!

Last edited by josephandrews222; 01-24-2015 at 12:47 PM. Reason: clarity
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I am so torn right now... I have been debating between waiting for the batch of PMCv2 to be ready and sticking with my PC-T50V10 or going out and getting a Samsung 60H7150 LED TV. Obviously, the Samsung would give me a good amount more real estate but... I am an engineer by trade and strive for the best PQ I can get for my money. That is the reason I bought the V10 (which was not cheap) back in 2009 - of course, I didn't expect Panasonic to stiff us the way they did. Add to all that, I am a Seahawks fan and we have kind of an important game on this Sunday that I think I'll be watching. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
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I am so torn right now... I have been debating between waiting for the batch of PMCv2 to be ready and sticking with my PC-T50V10 or going out and getting a Samsung 60H7150 LED TV. Obviously, the Samsung would give me a good amount more real estate but... I am an engineer by trade and strive for the best PQ I can get for my money. That is the reason I bought the V10 (which was not cheap) back in 2009 - of course, I didn't expect Panasonic to stiff us the way they did. Add to all that, I am a Seahawks fan and we have kind of an important game on this Sunday that I think I'll be watching. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
Hold out for the OLED. If Panny had their LG-supplied ones ready I'd be so there. I like how Viera works. Unless WebOS 2 is really good?
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Originally Posted by josephandrews222 View Post
...neat to find this thread and go back and re-read more about the Panny plasma 'problem' (the timeline on Dane's site brought back memories...I had previously read the earliest posts). Earlier today I placed an order for a v2 and anxiously but patiently await its arrival. Dane and those who preceded him in this effort are to be applauded for their effort. Reading stuff like this is what makes the internet fun!
Thanks Joe- I look forward to shipping your unit soon! I have a box of PMCv2 units in my bedroom waiting for my wife to go out of town in a couple weeks for me to start getting my hands dirty with them. I have *one* connector to test with (a 1st article test cable).. the remainder of the cables will arrive early February. Getting excited, but forced to be patient.

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I am so torn right now... I have been debating between waiting for the batch of PMCv2 to be ready and sticking with my PC-T50V10 or going out and getting a Samsung 60H7150 LED TV. Obviously, the Samsung would give me a good amount more real estate but... I am an engineer by trade and strive for the best PQ I can get for my money. That is the reason I bought the V10 (which was not cheap) back in 2009 - of course, I didn't expect Panasonic to stiff us the way they did. Add to all that, I am a Seahawks fan and we have kind of an important game on this Sunday that I think I'll be watching. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
I'd gladly take your v10 if you decide to pitch it! I know the vt60's are pretty impressive and OLEDs look even better, but a v10 still beats a g10, at a much lower price!

..dane
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I'd gladly take your v10 if you decide to pitch it! I know the vt60's are pretty impressive and OLEDs look even better, but a v10 still beats a g10, at a much lower price!

..dane
Ha ha! I'm sure I will end up keeping my V10 even if it is just 50" - I'm just getting impatient! Even my daughter said to me "Just buy the part to fix ours and get an OLED in another year!" Blasted teenagers! We did watch Up last night with the family and the wife and I have been watching back seasons of Modern Family on Blu and the pic really is excellent. It just killed me a couple of weeks ago when we watched Edge of Tomorrow and the last 20 minutes or so is all at night and it is supposed to be black. Instead, it was all in the medium gray for me... Look for my order soon.
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Originally Posted by TonyS View Post
Even my daughter said to me "Just buy the part to fix ours and get an OLED in another year!" Blasted teenagers!
That sounds like a smart move - it gets my vote. She's the brain of the family, it seems.
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