Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 387 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11581 of 11601 Old 03-10-2015, 01:50 PM
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audiodane;Model number corrected in the feedback page, thank you.

The right model number is VT20E not V20E.The difference is the VT series is 3D and V Series not 3D.Thanks
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post #11582 of 11601 Old 03-10-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by luis67 View Post
audiodane;Model number corrected in the feedback page, thank you.

The right model number is VT20E not V20E.The difference is the VT series is 3D and V Series not 3D.Thanks
Du-OH! That's what I get for trying to juggle too much at one time. Corrected. (again.) thanks luis!

..dane
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post #11583 of 11601 Old 03-20-2015, 01:44 AM
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I was lucky enough to purchase a 54V10 yesterday for $300 from someone on Craigslist (which is a steal to me) after seeing this thread, and I've ordered a PMCv2. I just wanna say thanks to audiodane for making me much more confident in the lifetime of my set. I've been aware of the rising black issues and it's put me off from finding a cheap, used set for quite awhile, but I guess we don't have to worry about that kinda thing anymore
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post #11584 of 11601 Old 03-20-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lysmau View Post
I was lucky enough to purchase a 54V10 yesterday for $300 from someone on Craigslist (which is a steal to me) after seeing this thread, and I've ordered a PMCv2. I just wanna say thanks to audiodane for making me much more confident in the lifetime of my set. I've been aware of the rising black issues and it's put me off from finding a cheap, used set for quite awhile, but I guess we don't have to worry about that kinda thing anymore
...off to check my local Craigslist....
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post #11585 of 11601 Old 03-20-2015, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lysmau View Post
I was lucky enough to purchase a 54V10 yesterday for $300 from someone on Craigslist (which is a steal to me) after seeing this thread, and I've ordered a PMCv2. I just wanna say thanks to audiodane for making me much more confident in the lifetime of my set. I've been aware of the rising black issues and it's put me off from finding a cheap, used set for quite awhile, but I guess we don't have to worry about that kinda thing anymore
Steal..., due in part to Dane!
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post #11586 of 11601 Old 03-21-2015, 09:36 PM
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I recently picked up a PZ80 that I found for a bargain price, and I've just ordered a PMCv2. I can't wait for it to arrive

I'll update the thread with my feedback.
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post #11587 of 11601 Old 03-22-2015, 07:54 AM
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This is so much fun, seeing folks giving old plasmas new life, getting great black levels AND saving tons of cash..

Just looked on CL and eBay both.. No VT20/VT25's anywhere near me... I'll keep looking though!

..dane
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post #11588 of 11601 Old 03-22-2015, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
This is so much fun, seeing folks giving old plasmas new life, getting great black levels AND saving tons of cash..



..dane
That's the thing I needed a second tv for a bedroom and plasmas are impossible to get hold of new in the UK, and there was no way I was purchasing an lcd as I can't tolerate the limitations of the technology, backlight bleed, grey blacks, motion blur etc.

I ended up coming across a locally advertised PZ80 for £50 so around 75 dollars which is a bargain. I've been impressed with the picture quality and this is coming from someone who currently owns a VT60 as a main tv.

I checked the hours today and they're quite high 17,419 and 5569 cycles. So I'm assuming the panel has the mll at the highest point so going back to standard voltage should be very noticeable.

I'm really looking forward to receiving your PMCv2, and was pleasantly surprised to receive a despatch email earlier. That's a very fast turnaround, now the waiting game begins....

Thanks again.
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post #11589 of 11601 Old 03-23-2015, 01:13 AM
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Question TX-P50U30E also grey

Hello @ all,

recently I purchased an used TX-P50U30E because of I love the color and contrasts of Plasma TVs. At the same day of purchase, in the evening I was really unsatisfied because of the grey black

After many research I found out about the rising MLL in newer Panas. So I read and understood all. My Plasma has round about 4600 hour on-time and 2200 On/off cycles. It is made in 2011. After many research I found panasonic.mironto.sk which explains how to rewrite eeprom in older models to restore black but I think no one has done it with my model?!?

So I started to "work" and I got in contact with miro.
short explained:
I ordered an arduino uno (compatible)
I built a 14-pin connector using an old DDR-Module's contact (I attached a photo of the serviceconnector with my plug inside. I know - it does not seem to be professional but it works. Everytime I plug it in I measure with an ohmmeter, it every time has contact and there are no shorts!!!)
In my "unknowness" I connected pin 3 and 10 to gnd, disabled internal pullup of arduino, uploaded miro's code connected pin 8 and 9 to SDA and SCL of the arduino. First all seems to be okay, the TV switched on, the panel stayed blank (as it should be, when Pin 10 -> GND). But my arduino did not read something. Miro told me, after sending him the service manual to use pin 12 or 11 instead of pin 10. But with 11 or 12 connected to GND the TV boots up normally, Panel switches on and reading with arduino is also impossible.

To test I took an old SD-RAM and connected the SPD eeprom to my arduino and it also reads out nothing . The conclusion: the adruino seems to be defective (this is my normal luck)

To verify this I read in how to make I2C eeprom with raspberry (I have one lying unused here around).
I downloaded and installed Raspi from 2/2015
activated I2C in raspi config (thats new since Raspi version from 2015)
activated the loading of the modules for I2C
downloaded some i2c tools and EEPROM reader and writer for linux
connected the spd eeprom to raspberry and: all works fine. Raspberry found SPD module at 0x50
I can read and write every one of the 256 bytes provided by the spd module.
So I gave it a new try:
connected the Raspberry to 3(gnd) 8 and 9 (SDA and SCL) and tested pin 10 to GND, pin 11 to GND and pin 12 to GND. But with no one of the constellations it was possible to read (or find) the panel's eeprom. There is a tool called i2cdetect. Sometimes, when TV booted up normally it randomly finds some??? eeproms with random IDs but I think (and it must be) it is an interference between the raspberry and the normal TV internal traffic between it's I2C master and the panel's eeprom....

Every step I made I stood in contact with miro (Thank you for all your help and time spended in reading and writing emails) but now we are at the point to get further help, he advised me to tell my problem here in this forum....

I attached a screenshot I made from the Servicemanual's SWF file. There you can see the 14 pin serviceconnector. For me, the pin 12 seems to be N/C and I measured an infinity resistance against ground. Pin 11 seems to be shared but it does not work when I connect it to gnd (3), TV boots up normally.

I think I am not far away from the solution to get access to the eeprom but there seems to be one little thing to solve...

If there is any information I should provide, please let me know, I'll do all to help others and myself to restore the real black on the TX-P50U30E (and similar models)...

Thank you in advance

Dirk
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post #11590 of 11601 Old 03-23-2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay AVF View Post
That's the thing I needed a second tv for a bedroom and plasmas are impossible to get hold of new in the UK, and there was no way I was purchasing an lcd as I can't tolerate the limitations of the technology, backlight bleed, grey blacks, motion blur etc.

I ended up coming across a locally advertised PZ80 for £50 so around 75 dollars which is a bargain. I've been impressed with the picture quality and this is coming from someone who currently owns a VT60 as a main tv.

I checked the hours today and they're quite high 17,419 and 5569 cycles. So I'm assuming the panel has the mll at the highest point so going back to standard voltage should be very noticeable.

I'm really looking forward to receiving your PMCv2, and was pleasantly surprised to receive a despatch email earlier. That's a very fast turnaround, now the waiting game begins....

Thanks again.
Yes, that really is a fantastic bargain! A co-worker of mine has a 50PZ80 with a "blink of death" condition that they're going to give me. I currently have a really inexpensive LCD TV in the bedroom, that I'd love to replace with this guy (if I can fix it) with a PMCv2. We'll see how it goes. I've seen lots of sites that discuss different solutions depending on the number of blinks, so we'll see.. A black-restored PZ80 for £50 sounds fantastic-- good find!

We all look forward to you reporting back how it turns out.

cheers,
..dane
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post #11591 of 11601 Old 03-23-2015, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ChAoSWK View Post
Hello @ all,

recently I purchased an used TX-P50U30E because of I love the color and contrasts of Plasma TVs. At the same day of purchase, in the evening I was really unsatisfied because of the grey black

After many research I found out about the rising MLL in newer Panas. So I read and understood all. My Plasma has round about 4600 hour on-time and 2200 On/off cycles. It is made in 2011. After many research I found panasonic.mironto.sk which explains how to rewrite eeprom in older models to restore black but I think no one has done it with my model?!?

So I started to "work" and I got in contact with miro.
short explained:
I ordered an arduino uno (compatible)
I built a 14-pin connector using an old DDR-Module's contact (I attached a photo of the serviceconnector with my plug inside. I know - it does not seem to be professional but it works. Everytime I plug it in I measure with an ohmmeter, it every time has contact and there are no shorts!!!)
In my "unknowness" I connected pin 3 and 10 to gnd, disabled internal pullup of arduino, uploaded miro's code connected pin 8 and 9 to SDA and SCL of the arduino. First all seems to be okay, the TV switched on, the panel stayed blank (as it should be, when Pin 10 -> GND). But my arduino did not read something. Miro told me, after sending him the service manual to use pin 12 or 11 instead of pin 10. But with 11 or 12 connected to GND the TV boots up normally, Panel switches on and reading with arduino is also impossible.

To test I took an old SD-RAM and connected the SPD eeprom to my arduino and it also reads out nothing . The conclusion: the adruino seems to be defective (this is my normal luck)

To verify this I read in how to make I2C eeprom with raspberry (I have one lying unused here around).
I downloaded and installed Raspi from 2/2015
activated I2C in raspi config (thats new since Raspi version from 2015)
activated the loading of the modules for I2C
downloaded some i2c tools and EEPROM reader and writer for linux
connected the spd eeprom to raspberry and: all works fine. Raspberry found SPD module at 0x50
I can read and write every one of the 256 bytes provided by the spd module.
So I gave it a new try:
connected the Raspberry to 3(gnd) 8 and 9 (SDA and SCL) and tested pin 10 to GND, pin 11 to GND and pin 12 to GND. But with no one of the constellations it was possible to read (or find) the panel's eeprom. There is a tool called i2cdetect. Sometimes, when TV booted up normally it randomly finds some??? eeproms with random IDs but I think (and it must be) it is an interference between the raspberry and the normal TV internal traffic between it's I2C master and the panel's eeprom....

Every step I made I stood in contact with miro (Thank you for all your help and time spended in reading and writing emails) but now we are at the point to get further help, he advised me to tell my problem here in this forum....

I attached a screenshot I made from the Servicemanual's SWF file. There you can see the 14 pin serviceconnector. For me, the pin 12 seems to be N/C and I measured an infinity resistance against ground. Pin 11 seems to be shared but it does not work when I connect it to gnd (3), TV boots up normally.

I think I am not far away from the solution to get access to the eeprom but there seems to be one little thing to solve...

If there is any information I should provide, please let me know, I'll do all to help others and myself to restore the real black on the TX-P50U30E (and similar models)...

Thank you in advance

Dirk
Hi Dirk.

I really don't know much (okay, anything) about the 2011 models. I have been focused on the 2008-2010 models that the method has been developed for. I suppose you are just trying it to see if it will work? If so, I think there are probably folks here that would be interested in your efforts.

I have seen several of the no-connect images (box with an "X" through it) on the IIC_CONT pin on several models, but the PMCv1/v2 and mironto's method still works fine on them. I agree with mironto that it looks like pin-12 is your IIC_CONT signal. Are you sure that you are getting good contact to GND when you connect pin-12 to pin-3?

Also, sometimes there are more than one service connector, and sometimes the signals going to each service connector are different. Look around and see if any other connector offers you the IIC_CONT signal. Additionally, track down the panel EEPROM chip itself, and see how it is wired. Originally avsforum user clktmr manually asserted the access request line by soldering a small wire to the via connecting to the IC and connecting it to GND. Later it was realized that the signal was available on the service connector.

If you wanted to post the full schematic somewhere, I would be happy to give it a quick once-through to see if I noticed anything that might have been missed so far. But it sounds like miro is steering you right already..

cheers,
..dane
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post #11592 of 11601 Old 03-24-2015, 05:57 AM
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Hello audiodane,

thank you for your quick reply.

1st of all I wanted to bring back the black to my TX-P50U30E (what this belongs I am an enthusiast). I did not know if anyone has ever done that with my model or not. Now I think I am the 1st one and as you mentioned there will be many people interested if there exists any method. Because of that I think now it is the best to tell and discuss every step here in the board to make it public. Yesterday I read many pages here (more than 20) with the first efforts of miro, it was very interesting .

The pin 3 seems ever to have contact because I measure between it and a screw of the TV's Back a maximum of 0.5 ohms... Also - EVER when I connected it to the wire at Pin 10 the screen stays off. If you want me, I can resolder it again to pin 12 and check the impedance to any parts on the board (today evening)...

In the meantime, yesterday after posting here I thougt that in newer models there does not exist the Panel's eeprom because in the schematics I can not find the Panel's eeprom. The I2C bus seems only interconnect two big ICs, the PEAKS-SLD2 and the PD5H/L. So I thought that it may be possible that there only exists one store where the usage time is stored and the voltage is driven by that. Miro sent me the link to the post with the addresses in Peaks eeprom. Then I found out, that in my model the adresses are not exactly the same but they are next to them and I modified them to zero. After reboot of TV the new time is correctly shown in service adjust menu but it did not modify the black. I restored the original time...

Also there in service menu I found a version number for Panel eep (see attached photo), so I think that there must exist any eeprom. Otherwise it may be also possible that Pana integrated the eeprom into Peaks IC or PD5H IC... Then the question is, will it be accesible from outside the IC?

I'll also stay in contact and send updates to miro because perhaps it will be interesting for him to put new information to his homepage...

Thank you all in advance

Dirk
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post #11593 of 11601 Old 03-25-2015, 11:38 PM
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I am so glad I boxed up my 65vt20 and put it in storage. It has done about 1500 hours.

I just purchased one of Audiodanes magic fixes (PMCV2) on ebay and now wait for the day it arrives.

I also own the 65Vt60 and will probably put that on ice whilst I use the 65Vt20 in its place.

Bernie from Australia posted on Audiodane's website that he owns exactly same TH-65VT20A TV as mine and it works so that is a relief.
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post #11594 of 11601 Old 03-25-2015, 11:57 PM
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hello again,

so, as you told I connected pin 12 again to pin 3. I measured direclty on the circuit of pin 12 to a screw on the back of the TV with an ohmmeter. I got 0,6 ohms. So I was pretty sure that also pin 3 and pin 12 have a proper connection and are proper connected together. Also I measured against my raspberry, also 0,x ohms. I am sure all is connectet the right way. I switched on and it booted normally, screen appears and no service mode...

Witth pin 12 connected to 3 (gnd) I tried again to talk to some addresses in I2c but the normal TVs internal traffic between PEAKS IC and PD5H IC is interferencing me... When I make i2cdetect everytime I got other results. Sometimes it finds more than 10 IDs, sometimes it finds no IDs. The most time there is found ID 0x20 and 0x30. But when I try to read out the IDs the results are different (becaue there seems to be another master active on this bus)....
@audiodane : did you got my big mail (30 MB?) If not, I'll try another way...

thx
Dirk
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post #11595 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by con219 View Post
I am so glad I boxed up my 65vt20 and put it in storage. It has done about 1500 hours.

I just purchased one of Audiodanes magic fixes (PMCV2) on ebay and now wait for the day it arrives.

I also own the 65Vt60 and will probably put that on ice whilst I use the 65Vt20 in its place.

Bernie from Australia posted on Audiodane's website that he owns exactly same TH-65VT20A TV as mine and it works so that is a relief.
Love it -- Let us know how it works out! Although, I am surprised that you are expecting your VT20 to be better than your VT60? I was under the impression that the VT60 models were finally on-par with the Kuro's (I think it was a CNET review that i saw)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAoSWK View Post
Witth pin 12 connected to 3 (gnd) I tried again to talk to some addresses in I2c but the normal TVs internal traffic between PEAKS IC and PD5H IC is interferencing me... When I make i2cdetect everytime I got other results. Sometimes it finds more than 10 IDs, sometimes it finds no IDs. The most time there is found ID 0x20 and 0x30. But when I try to read out the IDs the results are different (becaue there seems to be another master active on this bus)....
@audiodane : did you got my big mail (30 MB?) If not, I'll try another way...

thx
Dirk
Thanks for capturing your progress here, Dirk. For others' information, Dirk and I have been exchanging emails regarding his 2011 model. The Panel EEPROM information seems to have been absorbed into an ASIC chip (IC9300) on the A-board of his 2011 model. He's going to run a few more tests, but it may be that a special IIC command is necessary to enable access to the panel data. We are still unsure at this time..

For what it's worth, I do finally have a high-quality PDF of the U30 model, but it is image-data at about 600dpi. Does anyone here have access to a quality OCR software that could produce an image-based PDF into a combination image/text PDF (images stay images, text converts from line-segments into searchable text)? There are software's available to do this, but none of the free ones that I found seemed to produce a PDF output. They only output the text that they found in a text file.. Not very useful..

link to the U30 PDF can be found here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkbatnj7qu...30_sm.pdf?dl=0

cheers,
..dane
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post #11596 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 09:36 AM
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After a slight shipping delay my PMCv2 has finally arrived. The images speak for themselves. f/4.2, iso-100, 1 second exposure on both.

Couldn't be happier
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post #11597 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Lysmau View Post
After a slight shipping delay my PMCv2 has finally arrived. The images speak for themselves. f/4.2, iso-100, 1 second exposure on both.

Couldn't be happier
SWEET -- so glad you couldn't be happier. Is this the 54V10 that you spoke of? I want to put the pictures on the feedback page..

..dane
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post #11598 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 12:38 PM
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SWEET -- so glad you couldn't be happier. Is this the 54V10 that you spoke of? I want to put the pictures on the feedback page..

..dane
Yup, that's the 54V10.

Still can't believe how good of a deal I got on it
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post #11599 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
Love it -- Let us know how it works out! Although, I am surprised that you are expecting your VT20 to be better than your VT60? I was under the impression that the VT60 models were finally on-par with the Kuro's (I think it was a CNET review that i saw)?




cheers,
..dane
You are spot on about the Vt60. I want to preserve it so I can enjoy it longer. Hence watch the VT20 more for "garbage" TV ie wife's soapies and cooking shows and other programs and leave the VT60 for movies on bluray.
VT20 not in same league as Vt60 but should be better with the "new" electronics
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post #11600 of 11601 Old 03-27-2015, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lysmau View Post
After a slight shipping delay my PMCv2 has finally arrived. The images speak for themselves. f/4.2, iso-100, 1 second exposure on both.

Couldn't be happier
Wow. Even my tired eyes can see the improvment. Maybe I'll get around to installing my PMCv2 over the weekend.
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post #11601 of 11601 Unread Today, 07:19 AM
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Hello @ all, hello @ dane,

yesterday I got time again to make further tests. To be safe I took a 120 Ohm resistor and over that I GNDed Pin 2. With pin2 gnded the panel stood blank, green LED flashed and got solid and there seemed to be many traffic on the I2C bus of panel eep. With pin 13 gnded The TV did not boot, the red LED flashed (because there was no SD-Card with alternate OS) and there was no traffic on the IIC and also no device ID answered on the i2cdetect command.

Now, as miro mentioned, I am on a dead end with development. I (we) think Pana integrated the eeprom into the big IC and there is no access from outside (easily) possible.

My last chance is to capture and understand the I2C traffic. Because I am not firmly with that, I have to read in howto (which will take time) and perhaps I'll be able to capture.

When I got a set of traffic I'll post it here, perhaps sonebody can decode it and build a set of I2c commands to read and modify the eeprom.

For that time I send a big big THANK YOU to miro and dane for supporting my developement, sending me much of information and taking their time to read and write mails.

As there is any new information I'll inform via this thread.

Greetings,
Dirk
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