Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 392 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11731 of 11756 Old 11-15-2015, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethar View Post
Received and installed my PMCv2 tonight on my 58V10. Installation was a snap. Grabbed a couple of pics really quick to show the before and after. What a difference!
How many hours did you set have before the update? Thats a significant difference.
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post #11732 of 11756 Old 11-15-2015, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethar View Post
Received and installed my PMCv2 tonight on my 58V10. Installation was a snap. Grabbed a couple of pics really quick to show the before and after. What a difference!
That's pretty impressive. Because camera settings differ it's hard to tell exactly but that looks similar to the reduction I got.

So I had my first reset tonight. I didn't think it was coming for another day or two so it caught me off guard...I momentarily thought my TV was dead, lol.

Anyway, I didn't get a chance to test the MLL after the 130 hour mark, but I didn't notice any visible difference since then so I think it's safe to say that 150 hours is fine for the reset...at least for the 58V10.

Can't say enough about the improvement...best $50 I ever spent.
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LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #11733 of 11756 Old 11-15-2015, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
How many hours did you set have before the update? Thats a significant difference.
Was at about 6740 hours when this was applied.

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Originally Posted by robi1138 View Post
That's pretty impressive. Because camera settings differ it's hard to tell exactly but that looks similar to the reduction I got.
To keep things consistent, I used the same settings you mentioned when you posted your screenshots. ISO 3200, 1 second shutter time, f/8.0.

I did not have it set to THX mode however, which I wish I had done ahead of time. These pics were taken in custom mode, which is certainly brighter than THX.
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post #11734 of 11756 Old 11-16-2015, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Phaethar View Post
To keep things consistent, I used the same settings you mentioned when you posted your screenshots. ISO 3200, 1 second shutter time, f/8.0.

I did not have it set to THX mode however, which I wish I had done ahead of time. These pics were taken in custom mode, which is certainly brighter than THX.

Oh, ok...that's good to know. Then perhaps you're screen was brighter than mine to begin with (on a full black field). Have you ever taken measurements?

As for THX vs. Custom, it shouldn't matter for black level. Both measure 0.006 for me now and measured 0.011 before.

Did you use a calibration disc (or something else) to set black level? My THX mode's "brightness" setting is 68 and my Custom mode's is 58. These are a hair below what my multiple calibration discs recommend but it doesn't seem to crush blacks at all.

LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #11735 of 11756 Old 11-17-2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by robi1138 View Post
So I had my first reset tonight. I didn't think it was coming for another day or two so it caught me off guard...I momentarily thought my TV was dead, lol.
LOL +1 here .. You would expect someone like ME to put 2 and 2 together .. nope-- happened to my wife and I just a couple days ago.. Thought something was wrong with the TV or the DVDO Edge video processor ... Nope, all was fine. "Lemmi just try turning it off and back on," I say.. (when in doubt.. power cycle) Boom--working again. (slaps head) DUH...

We both had a good laugh at my apparent ineptitude. I blame the long hours at work in recent months..

Goes to show the power-cycle thing DOES catch you off guard (even when you designed it to work that way) .. but the natural response is exactly what it takes to complete the process.

..dane
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post #11736 of 11756 Old 11-17-2015, 10:50 PM
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FYI, PMCv2 has hit Reddit.. I noticed a huge rush of web traffic starting overnight and had to check the logs to see where everybody was coming from. I'm a Reddit newbie, but I imagine some of you probably use it and may want to add your two cents to that conversation and answer folks' questions as they come up. Y'all seem to answer questions better (and faster) than I do at this point..

Thanks Victor!
..dane
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post #11737 of 11756 Old 11-24-2015, 03:17 PM
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Bah. PayPal is incorrectly telling people that my account is unable to receive funds .. (huh??) anyway, I've put in a formal complaint and now must wait 24hrs for even just the first response (and even that may not be a resolution) .. du-oh. paypal user for over 10yrs, and this is a first..

I've put a notice on the checkout page of the website. I'll update it when I know more. Sorry for the inconvenience.

..dane
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post #11738 of 11756 Old 11-25-2015, 03:11 PM
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Huzzah! Paypal account issues have been resolved. Let the holiday shipments resume!
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post #11739 of 11756 Old 12-23-2015, 05:57 AM
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I would like to express my greatest gratitude to everyone here, but especially to Audiodane.

I'm the owner of a 2010 TX-P42GT20E, who is displaying a clock of 16200 hours, and whose black levels have raised exponentially in the past months. They were bearable in the past but past the 15000 hours clock it has just become extremely ugly. It seems there is yet another increase around that time, and that one is incredibly big. I didn't notice when the others happened. I did with this one.

I wanted to try the DIY way with a Raspberry Pi but somehow couldn't make it work, I only got a red blinking light on my TV when plugging the stuff on, after disabling the pull ups/downs on the I²C pins of the RPi... If anyone has made it work with a RaspBerry, I will be glad to learn from his/her experience.

Not to mention getting the 11 pin JST connector for the 2010 model was a pain in the ass alone, I really didn't want to break my TV because I made a mistake.

Now, I plugged the PMCv2.2 that I recently bought from Audiodane. I have to admit that even with the 50$ shipping (yeah, that's freaking expensive) to Switzerland, I'm absolutely not regretting the decision to get this device. I was so afraid it wouldn't work and that it would give me the same blinking red led error as with the RaspBerry.

Turned on the TV only to notice... that I didn't see anything ! Room wasn't dim enough for me to notice the panel was on, when it literally lit up like a LED panel just seconds earlier ! Also, as a simple remark, the screen didn't have to be reset when the timer was reset, I just turned the TV on and it was done.

This is an outstanding work that you all did, and I'm seriously glad that some people dug into this problematic and actually found a solution that's literally plug and play !

I would like to reward the original researchers, clktmr and markone, for the research they put into this. If I had any chance on getting their paypal addresses, I'd be glad to pay them 20$ each, because let's face it, they deserve it BIG time. As for audiodane, he'll be getting a few other orders from some of my friends who also have the same plasma TVs

Congratulations to all of you and a very massive thank you !

Nicolas Glassey, Switzerland.
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post #11740 of 11756 Old 12-23-2015, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weby View Post
I would like to express my greatest gratitude to everyone here, but especially to Audiodane.

I'm the owner of a 2010 TX-P42GT20E, who is displaying a clock of 16200 hours, and whose black levels have raised exponentially in the past months. They were bearable in the past but past the 15000 hours clock it has just become extremely ugly. It seems there is yet another increase around that time, and that one is incredibly big. I didn't notice when the others happened. I did with this one.

I wanted to try the DIY way with a Raspberry Pi but somehow couldn't make it work, I only got a red blinking light on my TV when plugging the stuff on, after disabling the pull ups/downs on the I²C pins of the RPi... If anyone has made it work with a RaspBerry, I will be glad to learn from his/her experience.

Not to mention getting the 11 pin JST connector for the 2010 model was a pain in the ass alone, I really didn't want to break my TV because I made a mistake.

Now, I plugged the PMCv2.2 that I recently bought from Audiodane. I have to admit that even with the 50$ shipping (yeah, that's freaking expensive) to Switzerland, I'm absolutely not regretting the decision to get this device. I was so afraid it wouldn't work and that it would give me the same blinking red led error as with the RaspBerry.

Turned on the TV only to notice... that I didn't see anything ! Room wasn't dim enough for me to notice the panel was on, when it literally lit up like a LED panel just seconds earlier ! Also, as a simple remark, the screen didn't have to be reset when the timer was reset, I just turned the TV on and it was done.

This is an outstanding work that you all did, and I'm seriously glad that some people dug into this problematic and actually found a solution that's literally plug and play !

I would like to reward the original researchers, clktmr and markone, for the research they put into this. If I had any chance on getting their paypal addresses, I'd be glad to pay them 20$ each, because let's face it, they deserve it BIG time. As for audiodane, he'll be getting a few other orders from some of my friends who also have the same plasma TVs

Congratulations to all of you and a very massive thank you !

Nicolas Glassey, Switzerland.
Great review.
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post #11741 of 11756 Old 12-23-2015, 11:39 AM
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A great thread and great people all deserve a great review
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post #11742 of 11756 Old 12-23-2015, 05:16 PM
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My son acquired a TC-P54G10 in late 2009 so will be prone to this issue but since he does the majority of his video watching on a PC monitor instead of this 54 inch plasma he has not complained as yet.


Next time I go over and watch a video on his Panasonic I will see how much this solution will improve his picture quality and go from there. He is not as finicky as I am but I still have a coveted Kuro.
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post #11743 of 11756 Old 12-25-2015, 02:19 PM
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How many hours on his G10? I think I had 10,000 hours on my V10 when I installed mine. Worth the money.
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post #11744 of 11756 Unread 01-17-2016, 11:43 AM
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I have a TC-P50G10 which I purchased on clearance from Sears in January 2010. It has a build date of October 2009, and just under 5300 hours on it. When it was new, I always watched movies in THX mode. The past several years they didn't look good in THX, so I played with the Custom mode to get a better picture, and used that for watching movies, and everything else.
I found a firmware update version 1.30 which is listed as "THX mode picture enhancement", and have been trying unsuccessfully to apply it from a SD card. I formatted the card using the Panasonic SD formatter v4, and downloaded the firmware update to the SD card. When I install the SD card into the TV, I get the "Photo Viewer" screen with the words "no photos found". For some reason it isn't recognizing the firmware update.
While searching for a fix for that problem, I stumbled on this thread. I ordered the PMCv2 on Jan 12th, received it on Jan 15th, and installed it last night. What a difference! I knew my picture wasn't as good as it was when new, but until last night, I didn't realize how much it had degraded.
Now I can once more watch movies in a dark room using THX mode. When I want to watch something else with low lighting in the room, I watch in Custom mode, using the settings from a 2009 review of the P50G10 in the Plasma TV Buying Guide. They are as follows:

Picture Mode Custom__________Color Mgmt. Off


Color Temp Warm2 ____________x.v. Color Off


Brightness +74________________ C. A.T.S. Off


Contrast +75__________________ Video NR Weak


Color +45 _____________________Block NR Off


Tint -2________________________Misquito NR Off


Sharpness +15 _________________Black Level Light


_____________________________3:2 Pulldown Off


_____________________________HD Size 2

I would like to thank dane for all the hard work he did on this great product.
My picture looks great now, but I would still like to be able to install the firmware update version 1.30 if I can figure out how to make it work from a SD card(I don't have internet access at home). Any ideas would be appreciated.
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post #11745 of 11756 Unread 01-17-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ford1953jimav View Post
I found a firmware update version 1.30 which is listed as "THX mode picture enhancement", and have been trying unsuccessfully to apply it from a SD card. I formatted the card using the Panasonic SD formatter v4, and downloaded the firmware update to the SD card. When I install the SD card into the TV, I get the "Photo Viewer" screen with the words "no photos found". For some reason it isn't recognizing the firmware update.

My picture looks great now, but I would still like to be able to install the firmware update version 1.30 if I can figure out how to make it work from a SD card(I don't have internet access at home). Any ideas would be appreciated.

Make sure you are using an SD card and not a SDHC/XC. These newer cards won't work.
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post #11746 of 11756 Unread 01-18-2016, 11:00 AM
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Make sure you are using an SD card and not a SDHC/XC. These newer cards won't work.
I should have mentioned I was using an old 32MEG SD card that came with my Canon camera that won't take the newer SDHC/XC cards,but thanks for your interest in helping me.
After reading all these pages I am confused in regard to the firmware updates for THX. Are there two of them? The one in version 1.30 talks of "THX picture enhancement", but I see many entries talking about the "THX fix for green cast", which appears to be in version 1.28, or maybe even earlier. Are these two different fixes, or just the same one being included in version 1.30?
My P50G10 has a build date of Oct 2009, a version of 1.24, and a LSI of .06. I saw some entries indicating the "THX" fix might already be on since I am at version 1.24.
Can anyone tell me if there is any firmware update for THX that I don't have on at the Version 1.24 level I am at?

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post #11747 of 11756 Unread 01-25-2016, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weby View Post
I would like to express my greatest gratitude to everyone here, but especially to Audiodane.

[...] If anyone has made it work with a RaspBerry, I will be glad to learn from his/her experience.

[...] Not to mention getting the 11 pin JST connector for the 2010 model...

[...] Now, I plugged the PMCv2.2 that I recently bought from Audiodane. I have to admit that even with the 50$ shipping (yeah, that's freaking expensive) to Switzerland, I'm absolutely not regretting the decision to get this device.

[...] I would like to reward the original researchers, clktmr and markone, for the research they put into this. If I had any chance on getting their paypal addresses, I'd be glad to pay them 20$ each, because let's face it, they deserve it BIG time.
Thanks Nicolas, for such a great post!

Raspberry Pi -- great idea! I have been wondering what to do when I run out of PMCv2 devices. (I will not produce another batch of PCBs.) An RPi-based solution is a really great idea. I have a Pi 2B and a Pi Zero now that I have begun playing with. Maybe I'll look into that... I have around 150 PMCv2 units left (out of a total of 600 produced since fall 2014), which will probably sell out mid-2016 (especially when people start getting wind that stock is running low). If the interest is high enough after all PMCv2's are sold out, then I may build a pre-loaded RPi boot SDcard with the algorithm pre-installed.. (Maybe even ship full RPi Zeros too? Hmm... That would be fun..) Will wait to sell out of PMCv2's first, though, selling and supporting PMCv2's keep me busy enough..

JST Connnector -- yes, they are quite difficult to come by, and even more difficult to get pinned out properly. That's actually a significant cost of the PMCv2 device (the two JST connectors).. I anticipate having a few extra JST connectors laying around after the PMCv2 devices sell out. If I do, I'll start selling off remaining stock of "spare parts" such as these connectors. They would go great with a Raspberry Pi Zero solution..

Non-USA Shipping -- You are absolutely right, eBay's Global Shipping Program is expensive. They are paying international freight plus submitting all paperwork for each country required, as well as paying all import tariffs. From what I have heard from others, it has been a good/bad solution. Good in that it is painless, bad in that it is expensive. It's also insured, which most people don't appreciate until they need the item replaced. There have been a handful of customers through eBay that have received a broken PMCv2 (sometimes it looks as if they run all incoming mail through a steamroller first to make sure it's flat enough for machine sorting), that eBay has paid to replace. So, yes, it's expensive (sorry), but it's pretty worry-free..

clktmr -- I have tried to track down clktmr with absolutely zero success. If you find him, please PM me and let me know. I, too, would like to have some email time with them..

cheers,
..dane
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post #11748 of 11756 Unread 01-25-2016, 08:01 PM
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Hey guys, I just received audiodane's PMCv2 today and set it up with my 46" G10 and wow, huge difference! Thanks for the work figuring it out, and to audiodane for putting it into an easy to use package (and for shipping it out so quickly).

Here's my before and after (don't have enough posts to link/embed so just plain text):
Before:
i.imgur.com/Uf5kNXXh.jpg
After:
i.imgur.com/otKrlnCh.jpg

I was actually so fed up with how much my black levels had deteriorated that I came back to AVSforum (for the first time since probably 2009 when I bought my Panasonic) to research new TV's, and just happened to see that this thread was still active so popped in to check it out. Was pleasantly surprised to find a solution, and happy to only spend $50 to "fix" my TV rather than $1500 on a new set!
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post #11749 of 11756 Unread 01-28-2016, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by -griffy- View Post
Hey guys, I just received audiodane's PMCv2 today and set it up with my 46" G10 and wow, huge difference! Thanks for the work figuring it out, and to audiodane for putting it into an easy to use package (and for shipping it out so quickly).

Here's my before and after (don't have enough posts to link/embed so just plain text):
Before:
i.imgur.com/Uf5kNXXh.jpg
After:
i.imgur.com/otKrlnCh.jpg

I was actually so fed up with how much my black levels had deteriorated that I came back to AVSforum (for the first time since probably 2009 when I bought my Panasonic) to research new TV's, and just happened to see that this thread was still active so popped in to check it out. Was pleasantly surprised to find a solution, and happy to only spend $50 to "fix" my TV rather than $1500 on a new set!
Oooo, GREAT photos, griffy! Thanks for posting. I have a few others to add to the website (if I can ever find the time!), these will be added to that list..

For others, I have attached them here for longevity..

..dane
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post #11750 of 11756 Unread 01-30-2016, 08:02 PM
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Hi . I just received my pmcv2 today. I installed it on my panasonic tc-p65s1. I plugged in the power cord after installing it. The lights flashed that it operated correctly. My problem is that i could not turn off the tv with the remote. I had to press and hold the power button for 5 seconds. It turns on and off fine now. I'm new to this device and im just wondering if anyone else has that issue? Does it mean the device is not compatible with my tv? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Joe
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post #11751 of 11756 Unread 02-02-2016, 03:44 PM
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Hi . I just received my pmcv2 today. I installed it on my panasonic tc-p65s1. I plugged in the power cord after installing it. The lights flashed that it operated correctly. My problem is that i could not turn off the tv with the remote. I had to press and hold the power button for 5 seconds. It turns on and off fine now. I'm new to this device and im just wondering if anyone else has that issue? Does it mean the device is not compatible with my tv? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Joe
Hey joe,

Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Just to be clear, when you powered it on, the blinking pattern matched that of success?

If that's the case, then yay! There are multiple other S1 owners that report success without the issue that you are describing. As long as it worked, then I guess just know that the device is operating slightly differently (but fully functional) with your TV, and don't worry about it. There are a number of PMCv1/v2 users that report that they don't even have to turn their TV's off and back on. Certainly unexpected but not a problem at all.. It sounds like your set might be on the other end of the spectrum but still working properly...

To be clear -- the blinking patterns are very accurate. The PMCv1/v2 performs a read-back check after writing to the TV, so if it blinks success, rest assured that it did in fact work... Have you been able to tell a difference in black levels? I hope so!

If you have any more troubles, let us know, ok?

Cheers,
..dane

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post #11752 of 11756 Unread 02-02-2016, 08:05 PM
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I'm gonna need some clarification from the OP audiodane himself:

I have a late 2008 Th58pz8008- and I'm wondering if it was one of the rising black level models and would therefore need the dongle.

I'm not really sure which "Generation" my TV is. I know the problem supposedly affects 11g and up...

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #11753 of 11756 Unread Today, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post
I'm gonna need some clarification from the OP audiodane himself:

I have a late 2008 Th58pz8008- and I'm wondering if it was one of the rising black level models and would therefore need the dongle.

I'm not really sure which "Generation" my TV is. I know the problem supposedly affects 11g and up...
FWIW, I'm not the original poster of this thread, that would be Orta.. I would love to get in touch with him to add the PMCv2 link to the first page of this thread but he hasn't been active since Oct 2015. If anyone knows how to touch base with him outside this forum, please PM me..

Hello fanboyz,

Love the signature line.. If you haven't already visited the PMCv2 website (http://audiodane.dandk.org/pmcv2), check it out.. There you can see the supported list includes "2008: Tx-xxPx800xx" which matches your model (by the way, are you sure it's PZ8008 rather than perhaps PZ800B?).. As I recall, the 2008 models are considered the 11th generation..

So, yes, your model is affected, and yes, the issue can successfully be resolved with a PMCv2. Now, how "bad" the issue is and how much you will be able to tell a difference, I cannot predict. However, there is plenty of feedback here and on the PMCv2 feedback page (and elsewhere on the web) supporting most people's response that the restoration of factory-fresh black-levels is more noticeable and dramatic than they expected.

cheers,
..dane
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post #11754 of 11756 Unread Today, 02:59 PM
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Pz800u I mean, from 2008.
I don't think my rising black was too bad- but getting it back to whatever square one was would be good.

By the way, your site says you're "sold out".

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #11755 of 11756 Unread Today, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post
Pz800u I mean, from 2008.
I don't think my rising black was too bad- but getting it back to whatever square one was would be good.

By the way, your site says you're "sold out".
Ah, ok.. PZ800U is a typical north american model suffix..

Not sold out -- select the "version" in the drop-down list. It says sold out when you don't select the variant. Technically they're all the same on my end, but this drop-down list adds just one more little check for folks with Gx2x or Vx2x models (or un-tested models) to go read the model-specific fine-print before purchasing.

..dane

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post #11756 of 11756 Unread Today, 04:47 PM
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I recently reset my VT20 from 3115.8936579014226 hours (0x00 0x0B 0xB2 0x2D 0xD7 0x0E 0x88 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF) using an Arduino. As I understand it lowering the panel hours lowers the voltage to the panel improving blacks. I know if panel voltage is reduced too low you start risking pixel misfires as the panel ages forcing the panel voltage to be raised. Does lowering the panel voltage cause the panel to age faster? I would guess lowering the voltage would actually have the opposite effect and prolong the panel life. Also I have found a old thread where LG owners where physically tweaking pots on there A board to improve there picture quality. I believe Panasonic TVs also had pots to adjust the voltages to the panels until everything was switched to digital voltage regulators which we are now essentially tricking the TV to reset to factory values by resetting the panel hours. The Reason I am bring the up is because I believe it would be possible to individually adjust the values for the following setting:

VS: Counterclockwise results in some noise in lighter pixels and lowers MLL, turning clockwise corrects the pixel noise and raises MLL but too far clockwise, and my set just shuts off and will not restart. In the end, I only adjusted this pot a hair clockwise to get rid of the white pixel noise.
VA: Clockwise lowers MLL.Did not cause any misfires for me so mine is cranked fully clockwise.
VSC: Made no appreciable difference one way or the other to anything so mine is left at centre position.
Vy: Turning clockwise results in higher MLL, counterclockwise results in lower MLL. Does not appear to introduce any artifacts or noise so mine is cranked counterclockwise.
Set_Up: Clockwise lowers MLL. I've read that turning this fully clockwise can cause some pixel misfires, however this does not appear to be the case with my set, so mine is fully cranked.
Set_Down: Clockwise lowers MLL, however fully clockwise for me also introduces may pixel errors, pixels not resetting after changing colour, so I had to back mine off a bit from fully cranked clockwise until these disappeared.
VZB: Appears to affect the 'dullness' of the overall image, minimal effect on MLL that I can tell. Clockwise seems to give the picture more 'pop', while counterclockwise gives a more washed out image. Mine is cranked fully clockwise.

This could allow us to adjust these values to get even better picture quality and control the "profiles" at every aging cycle (150,300 ect.). The trick would be finding where they are located in the EEPROM. I do not know much about how data is stored in the EEPROM but I believe a good starting point would be to dump the EEPROM of a VT30 or newer set and compare them to a full dump of a VT25; as Panasonic reduced the aggressiveness of the voltage increases for the VT30. So by seeing what changed we may be able to see where the various voltage settings for each "profile" are located.
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