Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 397 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #11881 of 11895 Old 11-28-2016, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
AWESOME results, bguzman! Thanks for posting your photos!

Regarding your purchase timing; I don't know too many stores that will honor something like a cyber monday coupon before or after sale day ... that's kind of how it works ... but -- shoot me an email and let's see what we can work out.

cheers,
..dane
Thanks for the quick response, I sent you an email. I'm not looking for the full Cyber Monday discount just the $10 coupon I forgot to use in my excitement when I placed my order. Even if there's no discount I'm still loving this device and spreading the results on Blu-ray.com. It's that good.
thanks.
Ben
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Old School, Sony PS-5500->Denon 103r->AU-320 SUT, Sansui SR-4050c->Shure M91ED, Alternative Acoustics preamp, Kyocera R-861, Polk Monitor 10A

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post #11882 of 11895 Old 11-29-2016, 07:06 PM
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audiodane is da man, thank you sir.
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HT, Mitsubishi HC6500, 106" screen, Samsung 32" LCD, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer Elite BDP-62, Toshiba A35, Panasonic LX-1000U, Pioneer Elite CLD-95, DirecTV H21-100, PS3, Pioneer Elite SC-85, Def Tech; SM 450, CLR 2002, BP2X, Klipsch KSB 1.1(X4), Pro Sub 100, Polk PSW125
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post #11883 of 11895 Old 12-03-2016, 06:30 AM
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Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum and I'm posting this message here to get help from you that have installed the PMCv2 device. Sorry in advance for my bad english but I'm not native language (I'm Italian) but I hope to be understood.
I own a TX-P42G10E with serious black level issues so I ordered the PMCv2 from Audiodane's ebay page, at the end of October I received the device, installed it following the instruction guide contained in the packet but It didn't restore the original black level (the panel remained "grey" as before).
First I tried the automatic operation but it didn't work, so I also tried the manual operation (several times) but it didn't work again. Then I tried the undo operation (but I don't know if it worked because I couldn't see differences in black levels...) and tried again the automatic and manual restoration again but the black levels remained the same as before!
So I also tried to update the TV firmware from the preinstalled original one (1.206) to the latest available version (1.216 for G10E model) but the device doesn’t restore the black level not even with with this firmware (automatically and manually).
The device is supposed to work because I followed Dane's guide step by step and the LEDs blink properly as described, the TV shows no picture when turned on after the installation and my TV model is supported so I haven't any explanation why it doesn't restore black level. Obviously I followed the non-US model procedure, I also tried the US version and in fact the LEDs don't blink in this mode.
I really can't understand why the black levels aren't restored, I haven't technical instruments to measure it but my eyes see grey as before the installation (it's not light black, it's actually more grey than black! I’ve seen some pictures of other TV owners and the difference between before and after is very remarkable).
Now I only hope that the TV doesn’t recognise the current timer status as “new” and from now on restarts to raise the black level again!
Has someone any idea why my TV remains grey instead going back to the original black? I would appreciate every suggestions. I hope I can find a solution here on this forum since I haven't had email replyes from Dane.


Thanks in advance to everyone.
Giacomo
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post #11884 of 11895 Old 12-03-2016, 06:39 AM
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Hi Giacomo, I have the same TX-P42G10E and Audiodane's PMCv2 restores the black level without problems. What is your brightness level set to?
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Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #11885 of 11895 Old 12-03-2016, 06:46 AM
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Hi Giacomo, I have the same TX-P42G10E and Audiodane's PMCv2 restores the black level without problems. What is your brightness level set to?
Thank you Mironto for your instant reply!
My brightness level was set to 0 and is set to 0 again.
I posted my request here because I don't know if Dane has received my emails, I would have sent him a PM but I can't because I'm a newbie with less than 15 posts.
Bye,
Giacomo
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post #11886 of 11895 Old 12-03-2016, 07:22 AM
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This sucks! Tried the order at 8:30PM EST and the coupon expired. The coupon must have been Greenwich time.

Guess I'll have to wait until next year's Cyber Monday if they are still available.
Yep, I always miss out on deals like this. I was shopping for my wife on Cyber Monday and was totally oblivious to this. I only looked here today because the thread was up top and showed up on the main forum screen. Still using my 2008 TH-46PZ800U with over 25,000 hours on it!
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post #11887 of 11895 Old 12-03-2016, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GiacomoITA View Post
Hi everyone,
I own a TX-P42G10E with serious black level issues so I ordered the PMCv2 from Audiodane's ebay page, at the end of October I received the device, installed it following the instruction guide contained in the packet but It didn't restore the original black level (the panel remained "grey" as before).
First I tried the automatic operation but it didn't work, so I also tried the manual operation (several times) but it didn't work again. Then I tried the undo operation (but I don't know if it worked because I couldn't see differences in black levels...) and tried again the automatic and manual restoration again but the black levels remained the same as before!
So I also tried to update the TV firmware from the preinstalled original one (1.206) to the latest available version (1.216 for G10E model) but the device doesn’t restore the black level not even with with this firmware (automatically and manually).
The device is supposed to work because I followed Dane's guide step by step and the LEDs blink properly as described, the TV shows no picture when turned on after the installation and my TV model is supported so I haven't any explanation why it doesn't restore black level. Obviously I followed the non-US model procedure, I also tried the US version and in fact the LEDs don't blink in this mode.
I really can't understand why the black levels aren't restored, I haven't technical instruments to measure it but my eyes see grey as before the installation (it's not light black, it's actually more grey than black! I’ve seen some pictures of other TV owners and the difference between before and after is very remarkable).
Now I only hope that the TV doesn’t recognise the current timer status as “new” and from now on restarts to raise the black level again!
Has someone any idea why my TV remains grey instead going back to the original black? I would appreciate every suggestions. I hope I can find a solution here on this forum since I haven't had email replyes from Dane.
Hi Giacomo. Sorry, we're into the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays here in the USA, and it's becoming REALLY busy at our house.. I was also on work travel from Wed-Fri of this past week, which slowed everything down even more. All told I have around 100 emails from the last three days have are still marked "unread."

Hmm, that sounds strange that the device hasn't seemed to work for you. As mironto already mentioned, it's been proven to work on that model before. Based on what I bolded above in your previous post, it looks like the PMCv2 is, in-fact, doing exactly what it's supposed to do. What mode do you have your screen on? Do you have it on cinema, game, custom, THX, etc? Also, since the LED blink patterns and TV response seem to be occurring as described in the instructions (non-USA instructions, of course), you can flip the UND/GO switch towards UND ("undo") and repeat the process (TV out of standby). This will put whatever value was in your TV to begin with back into your TV, as if the PMCv2 was never even installed. You can then flip the switch back to "RUN" and have the PMCv2 reset the panel counter once again. You can repeat this back-and-forth as many times as you'd like -- no damage will occur to your TV at all. That way you can check in a dark room before-and-after ... you can change settings on your TV (brightness, "THX" mode, etc) and try before/after again. I am curious along the same lines as mironto that you might have some other settings on your TV that are making the background more grey than expected. Do you have a dark Bluray movie that you can put in and pause on a particularly dark scene and perform before-after comparisons using known dark screen content?

Let us know how it goes!

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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Yep, I always miss out on deals like this. I was shopping for my wife on Cyber Monday and was totally oblivious to this. I only looked here today because the thread was up top and showed up on the main forum screen. Still using my 2008 TH-46PZ800U with over 25,000 hours on it!
Sorry you missed the deal, VA_DaveB. If you want to subscribe to the update mailing list, next time I run a special you'll be notified! I haven't yet decided if I'm going to do a Christmas special yet or not. The Cyber Monday deal was a pretty good success in reducing my stock.. Alternatively, if anyone has any quality green (532nm) laser pointers for trade, shoot me an note (here, email, website all ok)... I'm in the market for several.. (no, I don't want a $5 eBay special)

cheers,
..dane
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post #11888 of 11895 Old 12-04-2016, 05:06 AM
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Hi Giacomo. Sorry, we're into the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays here in the USA, and it's becoming REALLY busy at our house.. I was also on work travel from Wed-Fri of this past week, which slowed everything down even more. All told I have around 100 emails from the last three days have are still marked "unread."

Hmm, that sounds strange that the device hasn't seemed to work for you. As mironto already mentioned, it's been proven to work on that model before. Based on what I bolded above in your previous post, it looks like the PMCv2 is, in-fact, doing exactly what it's supposed to do. What mode do you have your screen on? Do you have it on cinema, game, custom, THX, etc? Also, since the LED blink patterns and TV response seem to be occurring as described in the instructions (non-USA instructions, of course), you can flip the UND/GO switch towards UND ("undo") and repeat the process (TV out of standby). This will put whatever value was in your TV to begin with back into your TV, as if the PMCv2 was never even installed. You can then flip the switch back to "RUN" and have the PMCv2 reset the panel counter once again. You can repeat this back-and-forth as many times as you'd like -- no damage will occur to your TV at all. That way you can check in a dark room before-and-after ... you can change settings on your TV (brightness, "THX" mode, etc) and try before/after again. I am curious along the same lines as mironto that you might have some other settings on your TV that are making the background more grey than expected. Do you have a dark Bluray movie that you can put in and pause on a particularly dark scene and perform before-after comparisons using known dark screen content?

Let us know how it goes!



Sorry you missed the deal, VA_DaveB. If you want to subscribe to the update mailing list, next time I run a special you'll be notified! I haven't yet decided if I'm going to do a Christmas special yet or not. The Cyber Monday deal was a pretty good success in reducing my stock.. Alternatively, if anyone has any quality green (532nm) laser pointers for trade, shoot me an note (here, email, website all ok)... I'm in the market for several.. (no, I don't want a $5 eBay special)

cheers,
..dane
Hi Dane,
don't worry for the missed emails, I posted here in the forum because I didn't know how to contact you.
I don't think it's your device fault and it sounds strange to me too, in fact as I said before and you bolded, it seems to work because the LEDs blink properly as described in your instructions (both in automatic and manual mode, and UNDO operations) and also my supported TV responds as described (it shows no picture when turned on after the installation).
On screen i mostly have the Game mode (with brightness at 0 and every settings, like PNR and others, on OFF) because I use TV mainly for gaming with consoles, I've tried different modes (Normal/Cinema/Dynamic) but the result doesn't change even if I set brightness -30.
I tried the reset procedure (both in automatic and manual mode) several times and the the undo back-and-forth, following step-by-step your instructions contained in the packet, that are very clear, but I can't understand if I made something wrong or if it's a problem related to my TV.
I'm not sure to have a BR movie with completely dark scenes but I compared before-after an empty screen (no source connected) and various black screens of standard TV programs and videogames. As I said, I haven't technical instruments to measure it but if I put the TV on a black screen it lights up my completely dark room even after the installation.
I think I've answered all your doubts... sorry for my long posts but I'm trying to give more information as possible to allow you to understand my problem.


Just to be sure to have done all the correct steps, I wrote down every step and I'll explain exhaustively it in the next post.
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post #11889 of 11895 Old 12-04-2016, 05:10 AM
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For the sake of simplicity I enumerate every step and indicate in BOLD the differences between the operations, the other steps are the some for all the operations: can someone please confirm me if I made every steps correctly?



AUTOMATIC MODE RESET OPERATION
  1. I positioned the PMCv2 switches on LED ON and RUN.
  2. I turned on the TV (the TV front LED was green).
  3. I put the TV in standby mode pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red).
  4. I switched off power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button (the TV front LED switched off) without unplugging the power cable.
  5. I connected the PMCv2 into the service connector on the back of the TV.
  6. I switched on power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button and keeping it in standby mode (the TV front LED switched on red).
  7. The PMCv2 red and green LEDs both lighted up for about 2 seconds, the both blinked off-on-off, then both lighted up for another 2 seconds (indicating the PMCv2 2.2 software version), then only green LED lighted up for few seconds (indicating automatic mode).
  8. I turned on the TV with the remote control, the TV showed a black screen like in standby mode (the TV front LED lighted up green).
  9. The PMCv2 blinked its green LED once per second (indicating the reset).
  10. I put the TV in standby mode again pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red), the PMCv2 stopped blinking.
  11. I turned on the TV (standby out) with the remote control (the TV front LED lighted up green), the TV showed picture but black level was the same as before.



MANUAL MODE RESET OPERATION
  1. <li value="1">I positioned the PMCv2 switches on LED OFF and RUN.
  2. I turned on the TV (the TV front LED was green).
  3. I put the TV in standby mode pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red).
  4. I switched off power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button (the TV front LED switched off) without unplugging the power cable.
  5. I connected the PMCv2 into the service connector on the back of the TV.
  6. I switched on power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button and keeping it in standby mode (the TV front LED switched on red).
  7. The PMCv2 red and green LEDs both lighted up for about 2 seconds, the both blinked off-on-off, then both lighted up for another 2 seconds (indicating the PMCv2 2.2 software version), then only green LED blinked 4 times (indicating MANUAL mode).
  8. I switched the PMCv2 towards LED ON, it started blinking its red and green LEDS in alternating pattern, then I turned on the TV with the remote control, the TV showed a black screen like in standby mode (the TV front LED lighted up green).
  9. The PMCv2 continued blinking in alternating pattern, I switched PMCv2 towards LED OFF, the PMCv2 blinked its green LED 3 times once per second and, after few seconds off, green LED blinked more quickly 4 times and then off again.
  10. I put the TV in standby mode again pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red), the PMCv2 stopped blinking.
  11. I turned on the TV (standby out) with the remote control (the TV front LED lighted up green), the TV showed picture but black level was the same as before.



UNDO (MANUAL MODE) OPERATION
  1. <li value="1">I positioned the PMCv2 switches on LED OFF and UNDO.
  2. I turned on the TV (the TV front LED was green).
  3. I put the TV in standby mode pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red).
  4. I switched off power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button (the TV front LED switched off) without unplugging the power cable.
  5. I connected the PMCv2 into the service connector on the back of the TV.
  6. I switched on power to the TV pressing the TV's front power button and keeping it in standby mode (the TV front LED switched on red).
  7. The PMCv2 red and green LEDs both lighted up for about 2 seconds, the both blinked off-on-off, then both lighted up for another 2 seconds (indicating the PMCv2 2.2 software version), then only red LED blinked 4 times (indicating UNDO mode).
  8. I switched the PMCv2 towards LED ON, it started blinking its red and green LEDS in alternating pattern, then I turned on the TV with the remote control, the TV showed a black screen like in standby mode (the TV front LED lighted up green).
  9. The PMCv2 continued blinking in alternating pattern, I switched PMCv2 towards LED OFF, the PMCv2 blinked its red LED 3 times once per second and, after few seconds off, red LED blinked more quickly 4 times and then off again.
  10. I put the TV in standby mode again pressing the red power button on the remote control (the TV front LED become red), the PMCv2 stopped blinking.
  11. I turned on the TV (standby out) with the remote control (the TV front LED lighted up green), the TV showed picture but black level was the same as before.
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post #11890 of 11895 Old 12-04-2016, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoITA View Post
For the sake of simplicity I enumerate every step and indicate in BOLD the differences between the operations, the other steps are the some for all the operations: can someone please confirm me if I made every steps correctly?
Wow, maybe you should have written the user's manaul, GiacomoITA! Wonderfully detailed, thank you! Yes, it looks like everything is happening as it is supposed to, but for some reason your TV is not responding properly to the cleared MLL values. (The PMCv2 LED blink codes would have indicated an error if the device had attempted to reset the values but they "didn't stick.")

Shoot me an email over at the website (audiodane.dandk.org/about, click "contact"), let's see what we can work out.

cheers,
..dane
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post #11891 of 11895 Old 12-05-2016, 04:47 AM
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Wow, maybe you should have written the user's manaul, GiacomoITA! Wonderfully detailed, thank you! Yes, it looks like everything is happening as it is supposed to, but for some reason your TV is not responding properly to the cleared MLL values. (The PMCv2 LED blink codes would have indicated an error if the device had attempted to reset the values but they "didn't stick.")

Shoot me an email over at the website (audiodane.dandk.org/about, click "contact"), let's see what we can work out.

cheers,
..dane
Thanks Dane, I only tried to write it more detailed as possible because I hoped to have misunderstood the instructions and done something wrong, so at least I would had an explanation... but now this is even more strange than expected! In fact you confirm that I did everything correctly, the device seems to properly work and my supported TV hasn't particular settings.
So now I'm very confused but almost sure that it's an issue related to my TV since the PMCv2 didn’t indicate errors and I'm the only one with this problem, but I can't figure out what it could be, I can shoot you an email over at your website but I prefer posting here so everyone could read and maybe having ideas or suggestions.
First I thought it was a problem related to the firmware originally installed on my G10E model (1.206 version) so I updated it (1.216) but the black levels aren't restored not even with this FW version.
Now I left the device installed on the TV in automatic mode so it will reset the timer in the next 150 hours but, since I use TV only a pair of hours per evening, it could take months before showing the result (I know I can speed it up leaving the TV turned on for a continuous week but I prefer not).

COULD IT BE POSSIBLE THAT THE DEVICE RESETTED THE TV MLL TIMER BUT THE TV DOESN’T RESTORE THE ORIGINAL MLL BLACK LEVEL?
IS THERE AN EASY WAY (I.E. WITHOUT TECHNICAL EQUIPMENT) TO CONTROL IF THE MLL TIMER IS REALLY RESETTED?
I know how to view the hours clock count in the service menu but I think that it's different from MLL timer.

Now I'm really afraid that it could have made the situation worse because the "resetted" TV could now think “Hey, I’m brand new!” and then will start to further increase the MLL after several hours as originally designed by Panasonic! My TV’s black level is just terrible right now...

Thanks again (and sorry again for my bad English…)
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post #11892 of 11895 Old 12-05-2016, 04:54 AM
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Giacomo, I suggest you take pictures of the TV in the dark room before and after reset. Make sure you use manual settings on your camera for exposure and aperture (and maybe white level).

Panasonic plasma black level restoration
Step-by-step guide for restoring the initial MLL on a Panasonic G10 plasma
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post #11893 of 11895 Old 12-05-2016, 06:10 AM
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Giacomo, I suggest you take pictures of the TV in the dark room before and after reset. Make sure you use manual settings on your camera for exposure and aperture (and maybe white level).
Hi Mironto,
OK I'll do but this is not a problem of the difference between a light black before and a darker black after (as I saw in some pictures of this forum... I would like to have the black level of some of the "before" pictures), this is more like a visible grey before and the same visible gray after.
I've just tried several times the reset/undo procedures and now want to try to put the device installed and see if something happens in the next automatic reset.
Thanks
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post #11894 of 11895 Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoITA View Post
Thanks Dane, I only tried to write it more detailed as possible because I hoped to have misunderstood the instructions and done something wrong, so at least I would had an explanation... but now this is even more strange than expected! In fact you confirm that I did everything correctly, the device seems to properly work and my supported TV hasn't particular settings.
So now I'm very confused but almost sure that it's an issue related to my TV since the PMCv2 didn’t indicate errors and I'm the only one with this problem, but I can't figure out what it could be, I can shoot you an email over at your website but I prefer posting here so everyone could read and maybe having ideas or suggestions.
First I thought it was a problem related to the firmware originally installed on my G10E model (1.206 version) so I updated it (1.216) but the black levels aren't restored not even with this FW version.
Now I left the device installed on the TV in automatic mode so it will reset the timer in the next 150 hours but, since I use TV only a pair of hours per evening, it could take months before showing the result (I know I can speed it up leaving the TV turned on for a continuous week but I prefer not).

COULD IT BE POSSIBLE THAT THE DEVICE RESETTED THE TV MLL TIMER BUT THE TV DOESN’T RESTORE THE ORIGINAL MLL BLACK LEVEL?
IS THERE AN EASY WAY (I.E. WITHOUT TECHNICAL EQUIPMENT) TO CONTROL IF THE MLL TIMER IS REALLY RESETTED?
I know how to view the hours clock count in the service menu but I think that it's different from MLL timer.

Now I'm really afraid that it could have made the situation worse because the "resetted" TV could now think “Hey, I’m brand new!” and then will start to further increase the MLL after several hours as originally designed by Panasonic! My TV’s black level is just terrible right now...

Thanks again (and sorry again for my bad English…)
Hi GiacomoITA,

The PMCv2 reset algorithm is extremely detailed. The PMCv2 device reads back the values after updating them and confirms that they are zeros; if they are not, you will get the double-blink error code (instead of the single blink success code). Additionally, the NEXT time you turn on your TV from standby mode, the PMCv2 once again reads the values; if the values are greater than 150hrs, it will once again clear them and confirm them. The result being that if, for some reason, your TV is not "remembering" the reset properly, then every time you turn on your TV, the PMCv2 would re-clear, resulting in the on-but-no-picture condition that occurs when the PMCv2 performs the clear function.

The fact that your PMCv2 is providing the success blink code, and that your TV is operating exactly as expected with regard to the MLL clearing algorithm leads me to believe that whatever the issue is, it has nothing to do with the PMCv2. I agree with mironto's recommendation to attempt to take before/after photos and share them, to help us understand what you're seeing.. I'm not sure what before-and-after photos will reveal -- maybe nothing -- but it's a good next-step.

If you want a more detailed picture into what's going on within your TV, such as reporting out what the values are (before-and-after reset), you'll need to go with mironto's DIY approach where you can physically report out the values to the terminal console. Mironto's website (links in both his and my signature lines) details his DIY approach extremely well. I am sure you would be able to follow it. Unfortunately, the PMCv2 was created for ultimate ease-of-use, not detailed user-accessible data reporting. :/

cheers,
..dane

ps. The reason I wanted you to message me privately had nothing to do with squashing this public forum communication.. it was related to something else..
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post #11895 of 11895 Old Today, 10:09 AM
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I tried to take some photos but they can't show the real condition of TV and, as I said, the before/after condition is the same so I think they're worthless.


So I also tried to leave the PMCv2 installed in automatic mode and this is what always happens:
- When I switch on power to the TV, pressing the TV's front power button, the TV shows picture. The PMCv2 red and green LEDs both lighted up for about 2 seconds, then both blinked off-on-off, then both lighted up for another 2 seconds, then only green LED lighted up for few seconds.
- When I turn on the TV from standby mode, pressing the remote control, the the TV shows picture. The PMCv2 doesn't blink.
So every time I turn on the TV from standby, it doesn't result in the on-but-no picture: the TV acts like when the device isn't installed.


As you believe that whatever the issue is, it has nothing to do with the PMCv2, I also excluded it was your device's fault so the only possibility, as I previously thought, is my TV's fault but I can't figure out what kind of problem it could be.
I had seen the huge work of Mironto in his website but I haven't the equipment to manually read the TV's values and, even if it's a very detailed procedure, I haven't the technical knowledge so I prefer not doing it to avoid making damages to the TV... but, since the device doesn't always try to reset the TV, I think that the MLL timer is now resetted and then this is not the problem.


ps: I 've sent you a PM at your website.
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