Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mattrayetta View Post

There is source code for the S,U C and X models at pasctraining.panasonic.com/firmware/Content/Plasma.ASP although i haven't been able to make any useful sense of it.

Based on what I looked at..

This is just their release of the Linux kernel they use (a variant of a standard 2.6.10 Linux kernel), which is required under the GPL. All companies that base their products on Linux must do this. It might contain an interesting tidbit or two where they needed to put some detail directly in a driver, but will not contain _any_ of their "application" code, which would likely have all the algorithms, interesting EEPROM locations etc.

Application code (where the action is) that runs on top of Linux doesn't need to be published unless it directly modifies a Linux API or interfaces with the kernel directly (like a driver does).

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post #1622 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 03:54 PM
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So does this still affect "all" G10 and V10 models after they hit a certain hour in their lifespan?

I am about buy one (either one of them) in march and I'd really like to know the truth (also, it's a headache to read through all pages filled with text since I just read around 230 pages on a V10 thread to find this one and so sorry for the probable redundancy).

Coming soon...
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post #1623 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 04:24 PM
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Is it normal for the Brightness setting to do practically nothing until it reaches 70 percent or so? Between 0 and 70 it changes nothing on my set at all.

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post #1624 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Hmmm... if I could get my hands at a brand new G12.

But I monitored the differences in full between a 79 hours GW10 (without risen levels) and a 553 hours S10 (with risen black levels).

The only difference that I could think of, is found in the Standby EEPROM, Line 38:

02 01 01 01 01 00 3C 04 (Bug)

02 00 01 01 01 00 3C 04 (no bug)

All other differences in the Peak EEPROM were due to differences in the presetted color temperatures, firmwareversion, panelsize, colorset and the normal differendes between the german GW10 and the german S10, like Subfielddrive 400 vs 600hz, greater greyscaledefinition, different scaler and de-interlacer.

One chance could ly in the Fake EEPROM, Flash and the Lsi-text, but thats hundreds of pages!

On my (US) 50S1, I ended up being able to reset the run time and power on count using the STBY EEPROM settings. They were on the 1st page. I'd been at 128hrs and 65 power on count (80 hex and 41 hex). Reset them 00 each and hit Ok and Return appropriately (don't think I'd done that before) and after the power-off reset, the TV showed run time as 0000:15 and power on count was only 1.

Here's hoping....
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post #1625 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 07:18 PM
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Any G15 owners report this problem? I was going to buy the 42" G10 but if there has been no reports of this happening on the G15 I'll spend the extra $100 and get that.

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post #1626 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unap16 View Post

So does this still affect "all" G10 and V10 models after they hit a certain hour in their lifespan?

I am about buy one (either one of them) in march and I'd really like to know the truth (also, it's a headache to read through all pages filled with text since I just read around 230 pages on a V10 thread to find this one and so sorry for the probable redundancy).

Anyone?

What generation panel is the G10 or V10?

Coming soon...
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post #1627 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by unap16 View Post

Anyone?

What generation panel is the G10 or V10?

12th Generation.

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post #1628 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 10:15 PM
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I'm at 200 hours with my 58V10 and the black levels still look great. I'll report in at 300 hours.
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post #1629 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealjustin View Post

Is it normal for the Brightness setting to do practically nothing until it reaches 70 percent or so? Between 0 and 70 it changes nothing on my set at all.

No. The absolute black level may not change, but info slightly above black should change quite a bit.

LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #1630 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unap16 View Post

So does this still affect "all" G10 and V10 models after they hit a certain hour in their lifespan?

I am about buy one (either one of them) in march and I'd really like to know the truth (also, it's a headache to read through all pages filled with text since I just read around 230 pages on a V10 thread to find this one and so sorry for the probable redundancy).

There is no evidence that it affects ALL G10 and V10s

LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #1631 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 11:34 PM
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So on a blank input, is the screen suppose to look black? On my G10 it's definitely not black, but rather a charcoal gray. Is this normal?
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post #1632 of 11403 Old 01-10-2010, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi View Post

12th Generation.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by robi1138 View Post

There is no evidence that it affects ALL G10 and V10s

Someone earlier posted that this was a problem with the earlier G10 models. If it's unit specific now then I think the risk is well worth it. After all, if I am not mistaken, it may not be able to be fixed but rather replaced.

Coming soon...
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post #1633 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindros88 View Post

So on a blank input, is the screen suppose to look black? On my G10 it's definitely not black, but rather a charcoal gray. Is this normal?

Unfortunately, this is normal. Takes a bit of getting used to. On mixed bright/dark scenes, though, the black should appear very black.

LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #1634 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 12:34 AM
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Someone earlier posted that this was a problem with the earlier G10 models. If it's unit specific now then I think the risk is well worth it. After all, if I am not mistaken, it may not be able to be fixed but rather replaced.

Not sure if it's unit specific either. No one really knows what it is.

LCD is the MP3 of the TV world
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post #1635 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unap16 View Post

So does this still affect "all" G10 and V10 models after they hit a certain hour in their lifespan.

I think we can be sure that it definitely does NOT affect all models. There are display models in my area that have been displaying letterbox content everyday for the last 8 months, and I can't even really see any IR on them and they're black levels look fine in comparison to the TVs around it. Granted, that's in store lighting, but if the IR was as bad as some people on this thread have reported, I think you'd be able to see it.
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post #1636 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 05:39 AM
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you mean that people sometimes exaggerate on internet forums?
Hard to believe, man..
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post #1637 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 05:56 AM
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My 6510 with over 500 hours has a black level at .0123.

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post #1638 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 05:59 AM
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RickD, this is a G10 black levels thread; shouldn't that info be in the V10 forum?
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post #1639 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post

RickD, this is a G10 black levels thread; shouldn't that info be in the V10 forum?

Since the issue isn't limited to the G10, we have been taking in all Panasonic black level posts. I believe that someone is trying to change the topic title to something that includes all Panasonic models from 09, we just need a mod to do it.

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post #1640 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:20 AM
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oh, ok, I thought this thread was for G10 info only, NOT v10..
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post #1641 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robi1138 View Post

There is no evidence that it affects ALL G10 and V10s

This would appear to be at least anecdotally true, as earlier in the thread a couple V10 owners have perceived no change.

I believe the following quote from D-Nice has led some to conclude that this issue affects every 12G panel:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The "idle black" rising is on all 12G Panasonic consumer displays and has been present since the 11G displays. From the info I have been provided, there will be no firmware fix to correct this for any 11/12G consumer display.

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post #1642 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by robi1138 View Post

Unfortunately, this is normal. Takes a bit of getting used to. On mixed bright/dark scenes, though, the black should appear very black.

Agreed. Blacks look awesome in CONTRAST to other colors on the screen. Most people don't watch a blank input. I think this thread is really getting into some people's head. If i had the time i'd like to go back thru this thread and see how many folks know 100% they have the black level issue. I'm guessing not more than 3 people. They probably have defective sets. The rest of us need to stop worrying and start enjoying the tv. The panny plasma has an awesome picture. Heck at best buy yesterday i looked at the samsung 850 on bluray and even in the store lighting the blacks looked gray but the blacks looked great in contrast to other colors. So who knows.
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post #1643 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bacchus99 View Post

Agreed. Blacks look awesome in CONTRAST to other colors on the screen. Most people don't watch a blank input. I think this thread is really getting into some people's head. If i had the time i'd like to go back thru this thread and see how many folks know 100% they have the black level issue. I'm guessing not more than 3 people. They probably have defective sets. The rest of us need to stop worrying and start enjoying the tv. The panny plasma has an awesome picture. Heck at best buy yesterday i looked at the samsung 850 on bluray and even in the store lighting the blacks looked gray but the blacks looked great in contrast to other colors. So who knows.

okay then don't come back here later and cry about your blacks. Enjoy your tv!!!
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post #1644 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nwdave View Post

This would appear to be at least anecdotally true, as earlier in the thread a couple V10 owners have perceived no change.

I believe the following quote from D-Nice has led some to conclude that this issue affects every 12G panel:

Looks like D-Nice is a well respected member here. I wonder where this "inside" info came from? DNice, can you elaborate about where you found out this is an issue on ALL panny plasmas? Not to put you on the spot...but we need to keep the rumors to a minimum before we all start bringing our TV's back.
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post #1645 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

okay then don't come back here later and cry about your blacks. Enjoy your tv!!!

I don't mind being aware of a potential issue and watching out for it but not being paranoid over it. If my tv looked like some pictures posted in this thread it would be dropped on the front lawn at Panasonic USA. I just can't believe that EVERY panny plasma out there will eventually look horrible like some in this thread.
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post #1646 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bacchus99 View Post

I don't mind being aware of a potential issue and watching out for it but not being paranoid over it. If my tv looked like some pictures posted in this thread it would be dropped on the front lawn at Panasonic USA. I just can't believe that EVERY panny plasma out there will eventually look horrible like some in this thread.

yes they do , i am a TWC tech and i see about 3-4 panasonic plasmas everyday. They all have this issue!!!
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post #1647 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bacchus99 View Post

Looks like D-Nice is a well respected member here. I wonder where this "inside" info came from? DNice, can you elaborate about where you found out this is an issue on ALL panny plasmas? Not to put you on the spot...but we need to keep the rumors to a minimum before we all start bringing our TV's back.

He stopped replying to questions a few months back. I don't know if that's still the case.

If this is a problem on all of these Panasonics, (I've seen two here say it was all, and two here say it was not all of them), the question I'd like to know is why has there never been a recall? Either: 1. It's not all of them, or; 2. They don't consider it a "flaw" worthy of a recall, or; 3. They just don't care. ??

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post #1648 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cristian_ro View Post

yes they do , i am a TWC tech and i see about 3-4 panasonic plasmas everyday. They all have this issue!!!

Hmmm, interesting my G10 doesn't have IR issues like the ones reported here have after the blacks rise.
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post #1649 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 08:35 AM
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Obviously some people have experienced a change in their displays. It's been documented with both measurements and pics throughout this thread. However, the number of people who have this experience seems to be minute compared to the number of people who actually own the sets (as seen by the owners threads, etc).

It could be that the amount of black level rise varies from set to set. Or it could be that the people who don't perceive it simply don't have the kind of viewing environment necessary to notice it, or they aren't attuned enough to notice the change.

I consider it more likely that the vast majority of consumers wouldn't notice the black level rise due to the conditions mentioned above. Therefore Panasonic wouldn't consider it a problem they need to devote resources to to solve.
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post #1650 of 11403 Old 01-11-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchus99 View Post

Looks like D-Nice is a well respected member here. I wonder where this "inside" info came from? DNice, can you elaborate about where you found out this is an issue on ALL panny plasmas? Not to put you on the spot...but we need to keep the rumors to a minimum before we all start bringing our TV's back.

I asked him to elaborate on this same thing before. Here is his response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I have the pleasure to know certain individuals within the industry. From those individuals, I am privy to non-public information, of which some is proprietary. With that being said, I am very careful with what and how I post information to ensure I do not insult my contacts/CE manufacturers, provide any sensive and/or proprietarty information on a PUBLIC forum.

It has always been like this when I post information on this PUBLIC forum and it probably will always be this way.

Totally understandable. It is then our choice to either 100% take his word for it, or take it with a grain of salt.

As for the topic, I can report that my black level still looks fine to me (approx. 1000 hrs). I was actually just admiring how good they were over the weekend while watching a few Blu-Rays and DVDs.

Only complaint I have is the THX mode, which hopefully will be addressed in the new FW update this month. Then I will be a happy camper with my G10.

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