Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

What should be 'held against them' is the foot dragging about what is going on with these sets and what they plan to do to fix it. If they would publicly state this, owners and would be buyers would feel a lot better about it! These companies shoot themselves in the foot at every turn! You know darn well that Panny knows what is going on here, and what it will take to fix it. I am holding off any purchase of their product until they resolve this issue!

And I am going to keep swapping units until they get it right.

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post #2162 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 01:49 PM
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Is the Panasonic TH-58PZ800U an affected model?
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post #2163 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottFern View Post

Is the Panasonic TH-58PZ800U an affected model?

theoretically yes

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post #2164 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFern View Post

Is the Panasonic TH-58PZ800U an affected model?

Read the very first post here.

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post #2165 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I would agree, Panasonic needs to make some changes in all the departments involved in these situations. The THX scenario is just ridiculous. The 2010's are going to available before a fix is publicly released. That is an issue that has been known since the '09's launched and a fix that has been implemented in manufactured units for at least 6 months. Samsung may push out some bad FW's, but at least they're frequent, timely, and show an effort. By comparison, Panasonic just doesn't seem to give a damn. Personally, I would much rather have frequent updates that might be less than perfect rather than wait a year for bullet proof ones that may or may not even address the issues (see FW 1.28).
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post #2166 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:30 PM
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about the rising black levels. the CSR had me try all kinds of things with the tv even the self check feature on the tv ect... i also told him that the tv seems to go through three different kinds of brightness/black levels when changing inputs or changing picture settings but then goes back to a set brightness black level which is not the same black level as it was for more then 5 months. i told him before i could hardly tell the were the black bars were and the benzel started in a dark room and now i can see it easily and also ir seems to be getting worse. i did have my a-board replaced the first month i had the tv which he stated he saw that. the tv one day just made a funny noise and would not power on and the red led light blinked either 7 or 10 times i don't remember now, but anyway he gave me a case # and a panasonic tech is supposed to call me in the next day or so. i also mentioned that i was not the only one with this problem and i had found several other people that have this same issue. he told me this was the first he heard of it but would give all my info/issues with the tv to the tech so when he calls. i will update what i find out when he calls me. hopefully they can get this fixed. i even told the csr the main reason i purchased this plasma because of the black levels and they are now getting closer to my computer lcd screen black levels or worse. i don't know about the rest of you with this problem but it seems to crush blacks more in some dark scenes compared to before this happened.
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post #2167 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Samsung may push out some bad FW's, but at least they're frequent, timely, and show an effort.

Samsung has completely ignored the Cinema Smooth bug and their buzzing issues.

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post #2168 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:53 PM
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of those people who have had panasonic techs come out to work on/repair their plasma's, how many have adjusted offsets in the service menu?

What's the issue with the warranty being voided by those who have adjusted their offsets? How is this any different from getting a proffesional calibration?
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post #2169 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 02:55 PM
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well... at least Panasonic's support is quick

sent them an email this morning inquiring about the problem and already got a response

Quote:
Please be advised that Panasonic is aware of the postings on AV Science (AVS) Forum whereby customers have reported the TV’s black level appears to have become greyer and/or the measurements have changed from their original measurements. Our factory and QA Group will investigating these reports, and once we have additional information from them we will advise you via return e-mail.



Thank you.



Sincerely,

Viera Concierge Support Team

Panasonic Canada Inc.

of course they didn't really tell me anything :/
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post #2170 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfx View Post

Samsung has completely ignored the Cinema Smooth bug and their buzzing issues.

I would suspect buzzing might not be addressable with FW, but I would have expected Cinema Smooth to have been fixed with the first updates. Perhaps they have gotten a lot worse about this, or don't have many resources devoted to PDP's. Only experience I have is with one of their LCD's last year, where there was a new update every month or two.
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post #2171 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 03:05 PM
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Is 1000 hours a suspected level for an increase? My TV sits at 999 today and I took color measurements for the pre THX service and the black level measured a consistent .018 ft/L.
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post #2172 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas View Post

of those people who have had panasonic techs come out to work on/repair their plasma's, how many have adjusted offsets in the service menu?

What's the issue with the warranty being voided by those who have adjusted their offsets? How is this any different from getting a proffesional calibration?

the csr i spoke to today actually asked me if i had my plasma calibrated which i have not, i have not went into the service menu either. i would assume it's different because the professional calibrator has had training and if YOU went into the service menu they would say you probably messed something up. just my 2 cents
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post #2173 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas View Post

of those people who have had panasonic techs come out to work on/repair their plasma's, how many have adjusted offsets in the service menu?

What's the issue with the warranty being voided by those who have adjusted their offsets? How is this any different from getting a proffesional calibration?


I don't know about today's service people but about 18 months ago I had my PX80U repaired twice under warranty. The set had been calibrated each time.

The first repair only need a replacement scan board so it was done in my home. The tech never went into the service menu.

The second repair required that the set be taken to the shop for a panel replacement. No mention of my changes to the SM. (Of course, it needed another calibration when it was returned to me.)

The most humorous thing though is that while my panel was being replaced, they gave me a PX60U as a loaner. Of course, I calibrated that one to compare it with my once owned PX60U. I left it calibrated and when they took it back they only looked for scratches and dings.

Larry
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post #2174 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I don't know about today's service people but about 18 months ago I had my PX80U repaired twice under warranty. The set had been calibrated each time.

The first repair only need a replacement scan board so it was done in my home. The tech never went into the service menu.

The second repair required that the set be taken to the shop for a panel replacement. No mention of my changes to the SM. (Of course, it needed another calibration when it was returned to me.)

The most humorous thing though is that while my panel was being replaced, they gave me a PX60U as a loaner. Of course, I calibrated that one to compare it with my once owned PX60U. I left it calibrated and when they took it back they only looked for scratches and dings.

Larry

Would a firmware update erase all SM offsets?
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post #2175 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:12 PM
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Would a firmware update erase all SM offsets?


None to date has. Replacing or rewriting the right EEPROM would though.

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post #2176 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:14 PM
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None to date has. Replacing the EEPROM

Larry

So what does the firmware replace exactly?
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post #2177 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:15 PM
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Doesn't the eeprom hold the sm settings?

You caught me while I was editing.

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post #2178 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:16 PM
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graidus, i read every post by xrox and others on this subject too, and from what i understand from his posts, they suspect the problem of rising black levels is due to a rise in programmed discharge voltage inorder to prevent pixel misfiring as the panel ages. now all plasmas do this, the problem as dnice has noted is that somehow when the voltage increases the panasonics inadverdently increase the MLL as well, which should not happen.

no where do i read in any of the posts above that lowering the light leakage by lowering the predischarge will solve the problem, because i presume that the increase in drive voltage over time will still happen,and in fact is normal for plasma tv's, but the implementation was screwed up for (some) 12g panels.

in other words, the problem is a FW bug. perhaps dnice can care to comment?
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post #2179 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:16 PM
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You caught me while I was editing.

Larry

Nice

Thanks for the quick response
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post #2180 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Antione A: Theres a good possibility that there will be firmware involved
Me: Thanks, do you know an approximate time table as to how long it should take?
Antione A: Where are not exactly sure when it will be available but I would not expect it to drag on past another Month
Me: Thank-you so much for your help!

Progress being made!!!

I wouldn't get your hopes up on a quick firmware fix or at least be extremely patient on any "estimates" they might give. Based on the THX and Onkyo HDMI topics....i would say six months is more realistic. Someone mentioned that one fix took a year to get released for a previous generation Panny.

In fact, I would be skeptical of any CSR who claims this will be fixed in a month. I have to wonder what firmware fix they were even referring to...
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post #2181 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 05:52 PM
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Hmm 2200 posts on this topic & no resolution anyware it seems. I'm starting to wonder if I'm having a problem too. I made the mistake of displaying an all black image on my G10 in the dark & there is alot of IR from the tv menu screen where I've played with settings since I got it. Not to mention it's not very black in the dark either but I have no measurements or even an original viewing in the dark when it was new to compare it with.

Now I don't notice anything during normal viewing so should I even be concerned with this IR as it resembles an ugly pic posted earlier in this thread? I ask this as I've read here that IR is a side effect of this problem too. I find most people with this problem are being awfully patient with Panny with their "we're looking into it response." If I become convinced I have a problem I don't think I would be that patient with them.

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post #2182 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

I would agree, Panasonic needs to make some changes in all the departments involved in these situations. The THX scenario is just ridiculous. The 2010's are going to available before a fix is publicly released. That is an issue that has been known since the '09's launched and a fix that has been implemented in manufactured units for at least 6 months. Samsung may push out some bad FW's, but at least they're frequent, timely, and show an effort. By comparison, Panasonic just doesn't seem to give a damn. Personally, I would much rather have frequent updates that might be less than perfect rather than wait a year for bullet proof ones that may or may not even address the issues (see FW 1.28).

samsung is unethical as it gets as a company...they have done a lot worse than just send bad FW's

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post #2183 of 11506 Old 01-25-2010, 08:00 PM
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Just finished 24. Horribly washed out on my S1. Almost unwatchable.
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post #2184 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosekaka View Post

and in fact is normal for plasma tv's, but the implementation was screwed up for (some) 12g panels.

in other words, the problem is a FW bug. perhaps dnice can care to comment?

Exactly, that was my point.

About FW bug, I still dunno if just a firmware (software part) will really solve this issue once for all, since I know it was necessary to change A & SS boards to fix it, but of course, is a temporary fix.

I know one of those boards (probably A board) has the firmware in there so that board might not be necessary to change it after a new fixed firmware is released, but I still wonder about SS card.

I can imagine a massive recall from Panasonic for those TVs if SS card will be still involved.

[]s,
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post #2185 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Just finished 24. Horribly washed out on my S1. Almost unwatchable.

I watched 24 last night too on my brand new 50G10 and the picture was grainy and the overall quality appeared less than the HD I'm use to; to me anyway. Facial detail was there, but the very dark scenes (and as we know are many) were grainy and muddy. My settings were kept low due to the newness of the set so the contrast etc. were not set high. However, I think it was the source itself as other programs/other channels are in normal HD high quality.
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post #2186 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicago2016 View Post

I watched 24 last night too on my brand new 50G10 and the picture was grainy and the overall quality appeared less than the HD I'm use to; to me anyway. Facial detail was there, but the very dark scenes (and as we know are many) were grainy and muddy. My settings were kept low due to the newness of the set so the contrast etc. were not set high. However, I think it was the source itself as other programs/other channels are in normal HD high quality.

I agree that it is source material. Watch discovery HD or HGTV HD (lots of color) and you'll see what your set is capable of.

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post #2187 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 10:25 AM
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I'm still catching up on 24 (only in the 3rd hour), but several of the outdoor scenes had really blown out contrast and a few looked flat out weird..almost as if it was a bad green screen. 24 has tended to be a bit grainy in the past but the PQ was really all over the place. I wouldn't worry about it unless everything else is looking really bad too.

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post #2188 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago2016 View Post

I watched 24 last night too on my brand new 50G10 and the picture was grainy and the overall quality appeared less than the HD I'm use to; to me anyway. Facial detail was there, but the very dark scenes (and as we know are many) were grainy and muddy. My settings were kept low due to the newness of the set so the contrast etc. were not set high. However, I think it was the source itself as other programs/other channels are in normal HD high quality.

go buy the last season of lost on blu ray or band of brothers blu ray and tell me how your set looks..

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post #2189 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Just finished 24. Horribly washed out on my S1. Almost unwatchable.

24 has a bad PQ. Play a good Blu-ray like Dark Knight to properly judge what your set is cabable of....if THAT looks bad then you do have a problem with the set.
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post #2190 of 11506 Old 01-26-2010, 10:48 AM
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24 definitely has a certain color tone or something that's intentional, and it's heavy on the grain. Manifests in really grainy, nasty looking background areas in low light scenes. As noted, well lit subjects and faces generally look good and sharp.

Other shows on Fox, say Prison Break, looked awesome with no such problems.

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