Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:54 PM
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Can anyone please comment on whether this applies to the US market only or internationally?

The 50g10 I am considering in Australia is the TH-P50G10A whereas I believe the one discussed in this thread is the TC-P50G10 which has THX and some other menu options we don't have.

Thanks,
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:13 AM
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This is what I´m wondering about as well. I have the 42G10E, that doesn´t have a THX mode. I am ofcourse interested in a possible firmware that prevents the black levels from rising / fixes risen levels though.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:23 AM
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well yeah my 46" G10 blacks are rising too(its getting to the black levels of my LCD), another one sending an email to panasonic, i got mine at amazon so there goes a comment about the black levels at amazon site, lets see if all of us can make a difference and gets panasonic attention sucks cause i love the PQ on this tv
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:43 AM
 
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cnet.com make a comment Thread about the black levels problem this is what they ask:

Are you perfectly happy with your Panasonic plasma or have you experienced a sudden rise in black levels? If hearing about issues like this gives you pause when shopping for a new TV, what should Panasonic or any company do to restore your confidence? Let us know with a comment.

lets make our comment panasonic have to do something with the black level issue http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...romoUnitHolder
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pukemon View Post

duh.

hahahah +2
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likwidsh0k View Post

Can anyone please comment on whether this applies to the US market only or internationally?

The 50g10 I am considering in Australia is the TH-P50G10A whereas I believe the one discussed in this thread is the TC-P50G10 which has THX and some other menu options we don't have.

Thanks,
Lik

Here on Brazil, we have the same problem on G11 series, we're wondering if they will release a fix for it as well.

[]s,
Fernando
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magdielito View Post

cnet.com make a comment Thread about the black levels problem this is what they ask:

Are you perfectly happy with your Panasonic plasma or have you experienced a sudden rise in black levels? If hearing about issues like this gives you pause when shopping for a new TV, what should Panasonic or any company do to restore your confidence? Let us know with a comment.

lets make our comment panasonic have to do something with the black level issue http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...romoUnitHolder

I posted a comment yesterday afternoon but it never showed on that thread of comments. Anyways what I said was just a reiteration of what others have been saying.

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Old 01-27-2010, 07:24 AM
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another thing i mentioned in the cnet article comments is it seems my IR has gotten much worse since this black level rise. last night when i went to bring up the menu for maybe 30 seconds and then exited out and i had a movie on with dark scenes and the IR lasted for more then a few minutes. before this rise the IR would be gone in a matter of a few seconds to no more then a minute. now i can clear see IR on an dark scene. i had to run the scrolling white bar for a few minutes and it took most of this off. i also don't have my picture settings very high so that is not it. pic is 76,brightness is around 46. this problem might be more frustrating as IR seems to be happening much more and lasting much longer.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:44 AM
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I'm in South Australia and I have just ordered the Pana V10A, and am now wondering whether it was the right decision or not after beginning to read these posts.

I haven't been following all of the posts on this thread because I have only just started reading it, but from what I have read it sounds much like the terrible debacle with the Sony Bravia backlighting issues that affected an entire line of Sony televisions. (I only say that because I have vowed that owning a Sony television is now to say the least IMO very hit and miss and thus it surely would have affected a lot of consumers).

If Panasonic don't start dealing with this issue seriously, rather than just sitting around twiddling their thumbs and washing their hands of the collective consumer marketplace, they are going to write themselves out of the television business. Frankly though, if this is the quality of both their products and their service, who would care that much?

The rediculous thing is though, I haven't even recieved my television and I am already considering cancelling the order! The nature of the this problem is such that people don't want to take the risk, so anybody would think that Panasonic would be scrambling to make a fix for this problem.

For all of those V10 or whichever international model correspondends with the 50" V series who are experiencing the increased black levels, would you have made another choice given the opportunity?
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by thebigdaddye View Post

another thing i mentioned in the cnet article comments is it seems my IR has gotten much worse since this black level rise. last night when i went to bring up the menu for maybe 30 seconds and then exited out and i had a movie on with dark scenes and the IR lasted for more then a few minutes. before this rise the IR would be gone in a matter of a few seconds to no more then a minute. now i can clear see IR on an dark scene. i had to run the scrolling white bar for a few minutes and it took most of this off. i also don't have my picture settings very high so that is not it. pic is 76,brightness is around 46. this problem might be more frustrating as IR seems to be happening much more and lasting much longer.

This worries me far more than the change in black levels as well. The elevated black level sucks, but the TV at least remains watchable. If the IR increases to the levels some others have reported, it would be a death sentence for my set, since I game heavily. I'm nearing 500 hours, which seems to be one of the milestones, so I'm watching and waiting.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:08 AM
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I have a UK TX P50V10B which has recently been exhibiting this issue, current hours used around 860 (purchased end July 2009). I first noticed around 600 -650 Hours but though I was imagining until I came across this thread. There is only 2 or 3 of us on AVForums.com that are affected currently & emailing Panasonic appears to be falling on deaf ears (not reply in over a week). The set gives superb Picture Quality & I don't regret purchasing IF & only If Panasonic come up with a solution. Obviously Black levels are a major consideration when purchasing a set, currently I'm sure some LCD's could beat it!
I suspect US members will be sorted out with an FW update but I'm not convinced the UK arm of Panasonic will respond well. Clearly the sets differ as we have the bulk of the controls hidden from us, however we don't have the THX issues reported in the US.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:27 AM
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I also think that the IR problem is something that will attract far more consumer attention. The average person who watches in torch mode might not notice a rise in the black level, but they will certainly notice a problem with increased IR.

The problem right now is something that Panasonic can write off as a group of picky enthusiasts complaining about their personal observations of a minor issue in a specialist forum. If Joe Six-pack notices, however, then they'll probably start worrying.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belgand View Post

I also think that the IR problem is something that will attract far more consumer attention. The average person who watches in torch mode might not notice a rise in the black level, but they will certainly notice a problem with increased IR.

The problem right now is something that Panasonic can write off as a group of picky enthusiasts complaining about their personal observations of a minor issue in a specialist forum. If Joe Six-pack notices, however, then they'll probably start worrying.

True, and image retention was never much of an issue at all on older Panny plamas. My 3 year old 60u seldom shows any image retention. Even on a solid black screen in a dark room after pausing something for 20 minutes there is virtually nothing to be seen. On the other hand my friends Vizio plasma has horrible image retention. After anything bright is on the screen for as little as 10 seconds there is a noticeable ghost image on a black screen right afterward. It also has terrible glowing blacks.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by belgand View Post

I also think that the IR problem is something that will attract far more consumer attention. The average person who watches in torch mode might not notice a rise in the black level, but they will certainly notice a problem with increased IR.

The problem right now is something that Panasonic can write off as a group of picky enthusiasts complaining about their personal observations of a minor issue in a specialist forum. If Joe Six-pack notices, however, then they'll probably start worrying.

It would take an ENORMOUS number of complaints though, they undoubtedly have a million canned responses about IR/BI and rigorously train their CR's to stonewall at any mention of it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Rennie C: it might be available on 02./05, that is the only info we have right now
Marc: For the black level fix, not the THX fix?
Rennie C: there should be info coming out for both within that time frame
Marc: So there is a possibility that an actual firmware fix will be released by 02/05?
Rennie C: yes sir
Marc: Thank-you


Black level issue firmware should be released on 02/05! Confirmed

I just spoke with Rennie C on chat myself. He first denied knowing about the issue. When I told him it was well documented he admited to knowing that there was an issue but it is not due to the voltage. Actually he said they don't know the cause so he didn't confirm or deny the voltage changes. He told me that there is no eta for the fix. Panasonic is giving in-consistent information to their customers.

I hope they resolve the issue and take care of their customers. My s1 will be my second panasonic andalso my last is panasonic does not step up and fix these tv's.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post

It would take an ENORMOUS number of complaints though, they undoubtedly have a million canned responses about IR/BI and rigorously train their CR's to stonewall at any mention of it.

thats not completetly true. when i spoke to one the other day i mentioned how i had vertualy no IR or it would be gone within a minute when i first got my plasma ,but since the black level rise it sticks around it seems much longer. i told the csr i thought this was due to the blacks rising as well. he then stated he would have a panasonic tech call me (from panasonic of america not a local tech) so will see that was monday. also i was just at best buy getting a network switch and so i decided to go back and have a look at the tv's. i then spotted the plasma i have 42s1 (which stated open box item display) it was just above a panasonic 1080p lcd and i could see plain as day the black level difference on the 42s1 compared to the lcd the lcd easily had better blacks. i watched for a minute and it had the same feed and one pic had two guy's standing next to each other the one guy had a black t-shirt on and the plasma looked more charcoal gray compared to the lcd which was black. i know not to compare instore and i don't what the setting were on each ,but this was almost like night and day side by side you could see the difference which i could not believe
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jlsavs View Post

I would suggest anyone who calls a panny CSR in the next while to pose the question like this:

"Hello, I've heard there is a firmware fix coming in early February. Can you please detail what fixes are included in this firmware release ?"

If the CSR specifically states "Black Level" as one of the fixes (on their own) ... I don't see how they could be getting it wrong.

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Unfortunately, It won't even matter how you phrase it. Some entry level CSRs will simply just go ahead and confirm something that isn't even true trying to "help" the customer. The CSRs don't even realize that they're confused.

This is why it's more important to just get problem sets reported rather than worry about "when" a fix will be available.

No, he is right; typically, people are effectively 'giving' the 'answers' to the CSRs. One will ask, are you are you aware of the 'whatever' problem, and they could just say, yes. Then, is there going to be a firmware for it? They say, yes.

If one asks them about the next firmware, and make them provide the info. of what is being fixed on the TV, one is not giving them any issue to confirm. If they try to be vague or don't know, then either their confirmation of a firmware for this issue is not true (or they are ignorant).

Even before there was word of a firmware fix, one could still ask about the 'next firmware', just assuming there will be periodically be a new one for at least the first year of the TV. If they say no, then one should indeed mention the 'whatever' problem, so they make a note of it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:40 AM
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I have a question (sorry if this has been asked already). When the TV is on, but not displaying anything (like if your input device is turned off off), is the blank image you see supposed to be true black? On my set with < 100 hours, with all the lights off, it definitely appears to be a glowing gray, not even close to true black. Normal viewing the blacks are fine for the most part from what I can tell.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:17 PM
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I ordered a 46G15 last week and will be getting it the end of the week. Do I have to worry about this now? Also, I will be having it ISF calibrated ($300) in the weeks to come.

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Old 01-27-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

No, he is right; typically, people are effectively 'giving' the 'answers' to the CSRs. One will ask, are you are you aware of the 'whatever' problem, and they could just say, yes. Then, is there going to be a firmware for it? They say, yes.

If one asks them about the next firmware, and make them provide the info. of what is being fixed on the TV, one is not giving them any issue to confirm. If they try to be vague or don't know, then either their confirmation of a firmware for this issue is not true (or they are ignorant).

Even before there was word of a firmware fix, one could still ask about the 'next firmware', just assuming there will be periodically be a new one for at least the first year of the TV. If they say no, then one should indeed mention the 'whatever' problem, so they make a note of it.

WELL SAID !! That was my point - don't put words in the CSR's mouth ... make them volunteer the info THEY have (about what's coming in a possible firmware fix) ... and don't give them any hints that they can just confirm ... that's makes it too easy for them to just say YEP to just about anything.

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Old 01-27-2010, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by p0pe View Post

I have a question (sorry if this has been asked already). When the TV is on, but not displaying anything (like if your input device is turned off off), is the blank image you see supposed to be true black? On my set with < 100 hours, with all the lights off, it definitely appears to be a glowing gray, not even close to true black. Normal viewing the blacks are fine for the most part from what I can tell.

No, it's normal to see a "glowing" shade of black on a no input screen.

It will only be true black in the "Vivid" picture mode since it actually turns the panel off.

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Old 01-27-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0pe View Post

I have a question (sorry if this has been asked already). When the TV is on, but not displaying anything (like if your input device is turned off off), is the blank image you see supposed to be true black? On my set with < 100 hours, with all the lights off, it definitely appears to be a glowing gray, not even close to true black. Normal viewing the blacks are fine for the most part from what I can tell.

NO plasma is going to show true absolute black on a blank screen. A slight glowing glow is normal on Panny sets. Enough to illuminate the room somewhat. Even the Pioneer Kuro gives off a little glow until it shuts down after 30 seconds.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by purplerain View Post

I ordered a 46G15 last week and will be getting it the end of the week. Do I have to worry about this now? Also, I will be having it ISF calibrated ($300) in the weeks to come.

Black level increase ( actually MLL increase ) over time is apparently a potential issue with all 11th/12th gen Panasonic plasmas, including the G15. However, it does not seem to effect all panels equally, though the root cause (a programmed increase in idle voltage level over time) would be present in all. The difference may be a subtle difference in the phosphors in a given panel.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:01 PM
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Well, the local authorized repair people just picked up my TV. They say they're going to replace the A-board (which we now know is not the fix, unfortunately) and possibly the panel. Really hope Panny gets that firmware out soon so that I'll have a new A-board, possibly new panel, and fresh firmware from the start.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:13 PM
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Is this an issue with the TC-PXXXU1 series too?
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:18 PM
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Is this an issue with the TC-PXXXU1 series too?

Yeah
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:21 PM
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Hmm, guess I will take mine back. Just bought a U1 series TV Sunday and while I love the picture I'm not gonna wait for this to happen.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:24 PM
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Hmm, guess I will take mine back. Just bought a U1 series TV Sunday and while I love the picture I'm not gonna wait for this to happen.

And it WILL happen. Hopefully Panasonic sorts this out. Maybe keep until return period is up to see if firmware
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:26 PM
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And it WILL happen. Hopefully Panasonic sorts this out. Maybe keep until return period is up?

I am a silver member and have 45 days but this TV does not have a usb port on it so there is noway to update the firmware is there? I can't update firmware through the SD slot can I?
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:31 PM
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I am a silver member and have 45 days but this TV does not have a usb port on it so there is noway to update the firmware is there? I can't update firmware through the SD slot can I?

Yeah, that's how its done
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