Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight? - Page 94 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2791 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:16 AM
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I would get the 2010 models...

because Panasonic's "support" is going to move to those models.
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post #2792 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:20 AM
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that response is making me consider a Samsung when i really had my eyes set on the v25 or v20
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post #2793 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwellon View Post

CNET received a response back from Panasonic regarding this and posted it on their site

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...eed&subj=Crave

So Panasonic claims that "various elements and material characteristics of all electronic displays change with use over time"? Well I think most here would not agree with that (Kuros for example), which throws the whole of their statement into doubt.

They are basically going to take a huge hit on their reputation for this now that they've released this statement to a mainstream consumer electronics review site. All I can hope is they get what they deserve, and in turn learn from it and put more effort into their products and support going forward.

TC-P46G10 build date May 2009
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post #2794 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwellon View Post

CNET received a response back from Panasonic regarding this and posted it on their site

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...eed&subj=Crave

I'll save you guys some reading....

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post #2795 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:39 AM
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I am going to go to Best Buy and give all the employees and other reps a copy of this article. I was a Panasonic rep for 3 years and my main selling point was the black levels on these TVs. And they are also saying the same thing about the 2010 models but we are supposed to believe its more gradual? Within six months the contrast drops on these TVs considerably! 2010 models happens within a year?
Really pissed! I was planning on purchasing a 2010 model but I am going back to trying to find a KRP-500 Pioneer!
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post #2796 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

So Panasonic claims that "various elements and material characteristics of all electronic displays change with use over time"? Well I think most here would not agree with that (Kuros for example), which throws the whole of their statement into doubt.

They are basically going to take a huge hit on their reputation for this now that they've released this statement to a mainstream consumer electronics review site. All I can hope is they get what they deserve, and in turn learn from it and put more effort into their products and support going forward.

Ill bet my life the 2010 pannys will sell like hot cakes and this will do nothing but just make people on here hesitant. Look at it this way. With all plasmas I have owned, some aspects of picture quality with get worse over a significant amount of time. Panasonic knows about this and so do I. Now what if panasonic did test a bunch of sets and maybe asked or surveyed other consumers outside of AVS forums to see if they had the same issue Lets say they did not. Now if thats the case and its a small percentage just here and a few others, maybe they will let you exchange or refund your set like PENDRAGOON. To me, I think panasonic only see's this being a huge issue on this site, and its not everyone on this site that see's it. My thing would be for people to read your levels and if its something that is doubled from levels like mine or what DNICE stated get a refund or new panel.

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post #2797 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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Hmm.. I am scheduled to receive a 42" G10 today. I can't get a refund without losing out on $150 "free shipping". Should I leave it unopened and try to sell it? Reading that CNET article is wholly disappointing.
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post #2798 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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So Panasonic has not even been "researching" this issue. If they started creating a fix now, it would be 6+ months. Really dissapointing coming from a company like Panasonic. They're the new leaders in PDP tech? Plasma is going down the tubes.
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post #2799 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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Their response still leaves the door open for a bug in this voltage change system. Otherwise it sounds like they are contradicting some of the information D-nice provided. It seems like it's going to be a hard fight to get it sorted out if there is a bug...

It would be nice if the CNET guy followed up with a question asking if there could be a bug in that system.
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post #2800 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:46 AM
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well it's official

as soon as samsung's new plasmas are available I'm gonna throw my tv up on craig's list


I'd like to give a great big F YOU to panasonic and I will never buy another one of your products
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post #2801 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speck9 View Post

Their response still leaves the door open for a bug in this voltage change system. Otherwise it sounds like they are contradicting some of the information D-nice provided. It seems like it's going to be a hard fight to get it sorted out if there is a bug...

It would be nice if the CNET guy followed up with a question like that asking if there could be a bug in that system.

I just don't get why when I have a black screen input from my DVDO Edge, and I bring up the gray bars on top and bottom, then exit them quickly, the deep black return where the bars were for about 1/2 second, then I can see them VISIBLY light up to the brighter gray. Thats why I am hesitant to decide whether or not this is actually a bug in the voltage, or a bug in the "Real Black Drive" floating black system.
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post #2802 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

Ill bet my life the 2010 pannys will sell like hot cakes and this will do nothing but just make people on here hesitant. Look at it this way. With all plasmas I have owned, some aspects of picture quality with get worse over a significant amount of time. Panasonic knows about this and so do I. Now what if panasonic did test a bunch of sets and maybe asked or surveyed other consumers outside of AVS forums to see if they had the same issue Lets say they did not. Now if thats the case and its a small percentage just here and a few others, maybe they will let you exchange or refund your set like PENDRAGOON. To me, I think panasonic only see's this being a huge issue on this site, and its not everyone on this site that see's it. My thing would be for people to read your levels and if its something that is doubled from levels like mine or what DNICE stated get a refund or new panel.

What's it going to take for you to admit that there is a problem??!!??
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post #2803 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwellon View Post

CNET received a response back from Panasonic regarding this and posted it on their site

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...eed&subj=Crave


No more Panasonic plasmas for me My next TV will have to be a LED LCD unless Samsung or LG find a way to improve their plasma panels black performance.
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post #2804 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rveras View Post

No more Panasonic plasmas for me My next TV will have to be a LED LCD unless Samsung or LG find a way to improve their plasma panels black performance.

I'm just glad I only paid 1499 for mine (58S1). I'm going to be putting it up on ebay over the weekend. Thinking I have to go LED/samsung pdp
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post #2805 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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Alright guys, help me out. I had my mind made up to buy a Panasonic TC-P58S1 in the next day or 2, but now with this new information from Panasonic, should I be looking for a Samsung pn58b550, I am now not sure what way to go. HELP ME
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post #2806 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parker4983 View Post

Alright guys, help me out. I had my mind made up to buy a Panasonic TC-P58S1 in the next day or 2, but now with this new information from Panasonic, should I be looking for a Samsung pn58b550, I am now not sure what way to go. HELP ME

I wouldn't recommend a 58S1.
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post #2807 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpresner View Post

Ill bet my life the 2010 pannys will sell like hot cakes and this will do nothing but just make people on here hesitant. Look at it this way. With all plasmas I have owned, some aspects of picture quality with get worse over a significant amount of time.

maybe so, but not in such a short time as some have experienced here. Their official statement with CNET mentions "years". This issue is happening in months.

I would be surprised if this doesn't get mentioned in every future review for Panasonic plasma sets.

Why would I buy a Panasonic Plasma over an LCD if i know that the Black levels could be the same or worse in less than a year?
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post #2808 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quick question. Now that panasonic admitted the brightness increase. How hard would it be to get a full refund from Panny for users that find their set's performance unacceptable (assuming you're still under the 1-year warranty)?
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post #2809 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:55 AM
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Damn it...

I really want to exchange my 54G10 for another one and not do the break in this time around.

That way if my black levels change again, it won't happen for months. The Sears where I bought it from doesn't have any in stock though.

I have until February 25th, so I'm hoping they get some more in stock so I can take it back.
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post #2810 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

What's it going to take for you to admit that there is a problem??!!??

Thats not my point. My point is that if only .5% is affected how big of an issue is it. Why not so much crazyness in 08 then if the 11g's had the SAME issue. Why are there no other forums that had this. I think there is a issue for such a small percentage and I do agree they should get some resolution.

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post #2811 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:02 AM
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I just sent panasonic an email in regards to this BS press release

lets see what they say in return

Quote:


Hello

I just read an article on cnet in which you(panasonic) claim that this is normal for plasmas and as such isn't being treated as a real issue. I'd just like to know what that's all about. I can tell you this is the first time I've ever experienced this issue with a plasma and this is now the 4th I've owned(I still have a Samsung pn50a450 and Pioneer pdp5080hd which has probably 5x deeper blacks at this point). This is a total fabrication. Even if this is "normal" for plasmas it's not normal to happen 3 months from the date of purchase in such a high degree. Needless to say I am INCREDIBLY upset by Panasonic's response to this issue and feel like I wasted $2300 on a piece of garbage. Not only has the raise in black levels lead to the tv being nearly unwatchable in a dark environment but it has also caused a substantial increase in image retention(or at least noticeable image retention) which becomes annoying even in bright scenes. I would hope that a company that is taking over the reigns from Pioneer as the top tv manufacturer in the world would care more about it's customer's than to force them to use products of this caliber and I think I can safely say at this point that if something really isn't being done about this issue that you will have lost many customers as a result of this.

The article in which I am referring can be found here
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...eed&subj=Crave

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post #2812 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:03 AM
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The scary thing for those of us who have noticed an increase in "background brightness" is wondering how many more of these adjustments will occur.

My 54G10 is not even 6-months old and I performed no break-in procedure. How much brighter is this thing going to appear 1, 2, or 3 years from now!

I hope D. Katzmaier gets his questions answered from Panasonic and I appreciate him putting his media influence behind this issue.
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post #2813 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syed117 View Post

Damn it...

I really want to exchange my 54G10 for another one and not do the break in this time around.

That way if my black levels change again, it won't happen for months. The Sears where I bought it from doesn't have any in stock though.

I have until February 25th, so I'm hoping they get some more in stock so I can take it back.

Lucky for me this is what I did. My 46S1 was having issues in addition to the black levels. I had a panel issue that usually shows up on other models, but Panasonic came out, and verified.

What I got out of this was an exchange for a 50S1 because they didn't have anymore 46 in stock. Not complaining.

But that was my thought pattern, don't do the burn in disc this time around, that 100 hours right there. So far, my 50 S1 looks great. Never knew such a good picture because the whole 8 months I had the 46, it had issues.
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post #2814 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:09 AM
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Man am I glad I didn't grab the 54V10 when offered.

Panny is headed for a class action lawsuit soon if they keep up this kind of attitude. Talk about denial! Photos, measurements and this is what they come up with. Which is likely just what they are trying to avoid ... having to replace all affected sets. The kind of IR that is visible in the photos thus far is close to Burn-in levels and the comparative brightness to an LCD is pathetic.

You know Toyota had to be dragged to the fixing table as well, despite the PR BS.

Looking forward to the 13g models we can only hope this asinine plan to alter voltages at differing stages in the product life is incompatible with Pio tech in regards to black levels. Way to screw up a perfectly fine technology.
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post #2815 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:10 AM
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Man am I glad I didn't grab the 54V10 when offered.

Panny is headed for a class action lawsuit soon if they keep up this kind of attitude. Talk about denial! Photos, measurements and this is what they come up with.

You know Toyota had to be dragged to the fixing table as well, despite the PR BS.

Maybe I'll get a check for $4.57 in the mail in a couple years! In all seriousness, something needs to be done.
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post #2816 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Given there is an official response, it may be prudent to get the word out to other popular technology sites that cover stores like this. Including links to both Cnet stories and the original post of this thread:

http://www.engadget.com/about/ (and/or the tip link at the bottom of the page)

tips@gizmodo.com (and/or their editors)

hdguru@hdguru.com
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post #2817 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:13 AM
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So wait... is it me, or is the article suggesting that, over time, the black level will get better after the voltage goof? So 0-1000 hours -> great blacks. 1001-x -> crappy blacks.. but then they get better and better because the higher voltage setting will be harmonious with a more aged panel? Or is this higher voltage problem always going to be a step ahead? Maybe it's logarithmic? : )
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post #2818 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:17 AM
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Outside of contacting Panasonic, who else have you guys tried contacting?

Panny is probably shrewd enough to realize that CNet is only read by a very small portion of folks, and not the average consumer. This story would probably have to go to a larger audience to get some real traction.
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post #2819 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Given there is an official response, it may be prudent to get the word out to other popular technology sites that cover stores like this. Including links to both Cnet stories and the original post of this thread:

http://www.engadget.com/about/ (and/or the tip link at the bottom of the page)

tips@gizmodo.com (and/or their editors)

hdguru@hdguru.com


Anyone tried contacting Home Theater Magazine or Ultimate AV Mag? Sound and Vision?

Any business publications which feature technology and/or TV reviews? Business Week, WSJ, etc?

I hope those with affected sets get positive resolution.
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post #2820 of 11622 Old 02-04-2010, 11:19 AM
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Just a quick thought: How do we even know whether or not this is just a response from their marketing/regular CS, and not the engineering dep?
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