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post #1 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have been searching and searching and searching... reading review after review after review on these damn things and I just can't make up my mind.... I have been a lurker for a few days now, reading everything I can everywhere I can.
Here are my choices:

1. 50" Panny - G10 - $1169
2. 50" Panny - G15 - $1242
3. 50" Panny - V10 - $1682
4. 50" Panny - S1 - $999

Here is my situation:

8-12' away from the screen.
Watching: Football, Baseball, DVD's, Movies

I will be buying a Home Theatre system at the same time. Either the LG because it can stream netflix stuff, or the panasonic BT-200 because it isn't a bad system (I guess).

I am leaning towards getting the V10 or the G15, but the others are options I haven't discarded just yet. I am obviously facing this tough choice because I want to know, in your opinion, is the $440 extra bucks for the V10 worth it? Am I a good shopper?
Once again, any suggestions on a good setup (tv/home theatre combo) are welcome, and any and all advice is welcome too!

Thanks!
-Chimmy
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post #2 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:36 PM
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For the V10 price you could almost get a 58" S1 and definitely swing a 54".
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post #3 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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My room is quite small... 58" would be too big... a 54" probably too big too. My room is like 14 x 14 or so...
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post #4 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:40 PM
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Famous last words, the Room is too small or the TV is too big. Trust me, buy the biggest you can afford NOW. This is from a guy who went from 42 to 50 to 58. Its never enough
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post #5 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:49 PM
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Get the bigger S1
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post #6 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow... looks like the S1 is better bet... so far... Does the S1 have as good of picture quality as the V10 or even the G10?
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post #7 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimmychanga View Post

So I have been searching and searching and searching... reading review after review after review on these damn things and I just can't make up my mind.... I have been a lurker for a few days now, reading everything I can everywhere I can.
Here are my choices:

1. 50" Panny - G10 - $1169
2. 50" Panny - G15 - $1242
3. 50" Panny - V10 - $1682
4. 50" Panny - S1 - $999

8-12' away from the screen.
Watching: Football, Baseball, DVD's, Movies

I am leaning towards getting the V10 or the G15, but the others are options I haven't discarded just yet. I am obviously facing this tough choice because I want to know, in your opinion, is the $440 extra bucks for the V10 worth it?

Am I a good shopper?

No

A.) There is no advantage to buying the more expensive 50G15 over a 50G10 - the G15 is the exact TV except for two inconsequential cosmetic differences so throw the 50G15 out (unless you can get it for the same as the 50G10).

B.) Your 12 foot viewing position would be better served with at least a 54" while the 8 foot position would probably give the nod to the 50 incher. Decide which viewing position is more important to you. You could probably get a 54S1 or even a 54G10 for the price of your 50V10 if you're so inclined.

If it were me, i'd get a 54G10 and call it a day

Randy
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post #8 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:02 PM
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I agree with Randy. I would go 54G10 if you can, or if you want to save some money and don't really need the extras that the G10 has, get the 54S1.
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post #9 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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hrrrmmm... soo... V10 is out the window.... Now... the decision is the 50 or 54... and then... S1 or G10..based off of price and so on. Any thoughts on the expected difference in money between the S1 and G10 of the 54's will be?
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post #10 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimmychanga View Post

hrrrmmm... soo... V10 is out the window.... Now... the decision is the 50 or 54... and then... S1 or G10..based off of price and so on. Any thoughts on the expected difference in money between the S1 and G10 of the 54's will be?

I think it's around $300 or so, but can Randy can correct me if I'm wrong.

For me it wasn't worth the extra money. I didn't need Viera Cast, etc.
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post #11 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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IF I get the Panasonic home theatre with viera cast, that will be the same thing as the g10 right? (minus the extra video settings).
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post #12 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimmychanga View Post

IF I get the Panasonic home theatre with viera cast, that will be the same thing as the g10 right? (minus the extra video settings).

I'm not sure about that, but Viera Cast is not needed on so many levels for me. There are so many other ways out there to stream media that it makes it useless to me to have it built into my TV.
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post #13 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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14x14 room is not too small for a 54 or 58 or even a 65 in my opinion. Get the largest you can afford like they say above. I have a 55 rear projection LCD and my room is 16x24 and I wouldn't go smaller than my 55 for sure. I'd say I'm about 14' from the screen and a few feet closer still don't make the tv too big. People who come over thing it's big but once you watch it for a while you realize that's it's not huge.

I'm planning on a plasma eventually and I want to go bigger for sure. I think many get hung up on regular old tube tv's sizes. While a 50 would be huge for a regular tv it's not for a 16x9 wide screen. And many don't take into consideration that the point of high definition is that you can get a larger and get more detail because of better resolution.
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post #14 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 07:58 PM
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Not only will HD allow for a bigger TV but the quality of these panels has increased so much that the bigger TV is a good thing.
I bought a 32" several years ago that was for my kitchen dining room area for when I cooked and I watched it at a close distance. At times I thought I was glad it was not larger. But these plasmas look so good it will be very hard to see flaws. The bigger it is, the more clear it will look.
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post #15 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So.... a 54" S1 is better than a 50" G10?
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post #16 of 50 Old 10-13-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimmychanga View Post

So.... a 54" S1 is better than a 50" G10?

The picture quality looks the same with me. The G10 just has some extra bells and whistles that the S1 doesn't have.

So it's basically do you want the extra bells and whistles, or do you want the extra 4 inches. That's the bottom line.
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post #17 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimmychanga View Post

So.... a 54" S1 is better than a 50" G10?

No, the only thing better about the 54S1 would be the lower price.

The G10 has about a dozen additional features (some are handy but most of em don't matter) but the biggest reason i chose the G10 over the S1 is because it's extra Color Temp settings allow me to get skin tones looking more accurate which is extremely important to me since i watch a lot of HD news broadcasts and i want the anchor's faces to look natural. I deal with my customers face to face so i know when skin tones are looking unnatural and i guess it bugs me.

Aside from skin tones being a little inaccurate, my friend's and "stepson's" S1s look probably 95% as good as my G10. Since you'll be watching movies and DVDs, maybe the G10's extra Color Temp settings may be of use to you.

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post #18 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The G10 has about a dozen additional features (some are handy but most of em don't matter) but the biggest reason i chose the G10 over the S1 is because it's extra Color Temp settings allow me to get skin tones looking more accurate which is extremely important to me since i watch a lot of HD news broadcasts and i want the anchor's faces to look natural.

Ditto!!!
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post #19 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

No, the only thing better about the 54S1 would be the lower price.

The G10 has about a dozen additional features (some are handy but most of em don't matter) but the biggest reason i chose the G10 over the S1 is because it's extra Color Temp settings allow me to get skin tones looking more accurate which is extremely important to me since i watch a lot of HD news broadcasts and i want the anchor's faces to look natural. I deal with my customers face to face so i know when skin tones are looking unnatural and i guess it bugs me.

Aside from skin tones being a little inaccurate, my friend's and "stepson's" S1s look probably 95% as good as my G10. Since you'll be watching movies and DVDs, maybe the G10's extra Color Temp settings may be of use to you.

I'm not so sure I agree with the skin tones comment. I have watched some news broadcasts on my 54S1 and plenty of in-studio sports news shows and skin tones look good to me. I can't say that I've seen anything unnatural. Do you care to elaborate on that?
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post #20 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

No, the only thing better about the 54S1 would be the lower price.

The G10 has about a dozen additional features (some are handy but most of em don't matter) but the biggest reason i chose the G10 over the S1 is because it's extra Color Temp settings allow me to get skin tones looking more accurate which is extremely important to me since i watch a lot of HD news broadcasts and i want the anchor's faces to look natural. I deal with my customers face to face so i know when skin tones are looking unnatural and i guess it bugs me.

Aside from skin tones being a little inaccurate, my friend's and "stepson's" S1s look probably 95% as good as my G10. Since you'll be watching movies and DVDs, maybe the G10's extra Color Temp settings may be of use to you.

I don't know about the OP but once someone who knows what they are talking about raises an issue like this (skin tone), I find it hard not to look for it.

If Randy hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't have even thought about it. I remember 30 years ago, there was a switch on many CRTs that was designed specifically to give "better" skin tones. To me it looked unnatural, but that was very heavy handed.

Lots of non-hobbiests would be happier than pigs in sh**, with a 50 S1.
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post #21 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioGambino View Post

I'm not so sure I agree with the skin tones comment. I have watched some news broadcasts on my 54S1 and plenty of in-studio sports news shows and skin tones look good to me. I can't say that I've seen anything unnatural. Do you care to elaborate on that?

Skin tones on familiar anchor's faces on those two S1s i have access to either have a slightly green cast or a slightly red cast to them no matter how i adjust the color and tint etc, and i cannot get them to look quite as natural as i can on my G10. I attribute that to the extra Color Temp settings (i use Warm 2).

If you can't see it, then it's not a problem for you. It's not a huge difference, but i can see it - especially since i'm able to compare theirs to mine. Both of those S1s are on FIOS, and one of them has OTA like i do so his S1 getting the exact same quality of signal as my G10 on various local HD channels so that makes it easier to see the difference between the two models. I still have my older PZ700U and my even older PX50U and skin tones on those TVs are downright inaccurate and the S1 looks perfect by comparison, but the G10 just takes it up a notch. If i had bought the S1 instead of the G10 i wouldn't have known what i was missing and would have been very happy with the S1. But i'm glad i picked the G10 since i'm so picky about skin tones.

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post #22 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Skin tones on familiar anchor's faces on those two S1s i have access to either have a slightly green cast or a slightly red cast to them no matter how i adjust the color and tint etc, and i cannot get them to look quite as natural as i can on my G10. I attribute that to the extra Color Temp settings (i use Warm 2).

If you can't see it, then it's not a problem for you. It's not a huge difference, but i can see it - especially since i'm able to compare theirs to mine. Both of those S1s are on FIOS, and one of them has OTA like i do so his S1 getting the exact same quality of signal as my G10 on various local HD channels so that makes it easier to see the difference between the two models. I still have my older PZ700U and my even older PX50U and skin tones on those TVs are downright inaccurate and the S1 looks perfect by comparison, but the G10 just takes it up a notch. If i had bought the S1 instead of the G10 i wouldn't have known what i was missing and would have been very happy with the S1. But i'm glad i picked the G10 since i'm so picky about skin tones.

Oh I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Like you said, I have nothing to compare to and they look fine to me. Thanks!
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post #23 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:42 AM
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can anyone elaborate on the "flicker" that supposedly the s1 and g10 have as opposed to the v10 that doesnt.something about 48hz on the s1 and g10 and the 96hz of the v10.1080p/24
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post #24 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:50 AM
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If you plan on watching bluray the V10 is the only one on that list that'll display 1080p-24 correctly. Having said that, the G series has alot of value (minus BD playback).

- Chip
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post #25 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip E View Post

If you plan on watching bluray the V10 is the only one on that list that'll display 1080p-24 correctly. Having said that, the G series has alot of value (minus BD playback).

Thanks.But if it cant play bd then whats the point of getting the g10?unless i'm missing something.
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post #26 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 08:06 AM
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Forgive my ignorance folks...what is the advantage of watching on a tv that supports real 24p and one that doesn't but not enabling 24p on the movie player? Can our eyes really see the difference? I don't have a bd player yet but have the dead hddvd. I don't see any flickering when watching movies. It looks real. Colors are natural. I hate those motion compensation stuff that even my youngest son noticed and said it was weird.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #27 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Now I am completely lost. If I am planning on watching a lot of Blue Ray stuff and HD (via fios) should I be getting the V10?
What is the noticeable difference between the V10 and G10 when it comes to the blue ray stuff? Does everybody see the flicker? Or is it only observed when you know what to look for. I am thinking more and more that I should go to a best buy or something like that to do the up close and personal inspection of both models and chose from there. I don't want to get sandbagged into getting the V10 if I don't have to (you know how those Best buy guys are sometimes... I like to go in prepared to talk shop, or at least pretend that I can talk shop).
I am thinking the 54" is the better bet, but the 54" V10 is out of my budget range, leaving me with the 54" G10 at best. I was hoping to get the 50" G10 with the panny home theatre BT-200. Probably could get the 50 with the ht for the same price as the 54" panny.
Does anybody know if prices will be dropping as we get closer to CES?
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post #28 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 11:33 AM
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I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm mistaken but...

The flicker in question is caused when a 24 FPS source is converted to a device that refreshes 60 times per second, which is not a direct multiple of 24.

The V10 with its 96Hz option provides the best way to avoid this flicker however, the flicker in question has been seen on every TV you have ever watched in the past and will be there on every DVD or HD broadcast movie you watch. If it doesn't bother you in these situations you have to ask yourself if it will bother you when watching Blu-Rays on your new plasma.
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post #29 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by another schmo View Post

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm mistaken but...

The flicker in question is caused when a 24 FPS source is converted to a device that refreshes 60 times per second, which is not a direct multiple of 24.

The V10 with its 96Hz option provides the best way to avoid this flicker however, the flicker in question has been seen on every TV you have ever watched in the past and will be there on every DVD or HD broadcast movie you watch. If it doesn't bother you in these situations you have to ask yourself if it will bother you when watching Blu-Rays on your new plasma.

So the 48hz on G10 should be able to display it properly, right?
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post #30 of 50 Old 10-14-2009, 12:37 PM
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At the end of the day if it naively supports a multiple of 24 your blurays (any movie for that matter rendered at 24 FPS) will properly display the movie with out the "flickering" (judder is the correct term). Yes this is real distraction once you notice it. In other words if you have never seen a movie properly displayed you will not know what we are talking about - once you have you will not want to go back - especially if your eyes are sensitive to judder. Mine are and unfortunately I have viewed a movie without judder and cant go back without the annoyance.

Based on Panasonics tech specs Y is next to 24p - but it also states 2:3 pulldown which does not necessary state the native support - and actually means its doing the conversion for the 24FPS movie to play properly on a 60Hz without audio sync or tearing issues rather then natively supporting the frequency - unfortunately this introduces judder as its adding/removing frames to accommodate the difference. Frame rate must = Display frequency (or multiple of) to eliminate judder WITHOUT the pulldown. Sooo.. based on what I see it DOES NOT properly support 24p.

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So the 48hz on G10 should be able to display it properly, right?

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