Cnet Has lied to me/taking it back: the Samsung PN58650 isnt Excellent - Page 4 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Display Devices > Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Cnet Has lied to me/taking it back: the Samsung PN58650 isnt Excellent

Plasma Flat Panel Displays

maxdog03's Avatar maxdog03
04:05 PM Liked: 10
post #91 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 2,804
Joined: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

yep...

Another brilliant move. You never toss the box before the return period is up.
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
04:13 PM Liked: 177
post #92 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 2,509
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

A few posts on this thread say that hdmi low is the correct setting, IT IS NOT.

If you watch ycbcr content (blu-ray, dvd) by converting to rgb and you have the tv set to hdmi low, what happens is that the standard space of 16-235 is being extended into 0-255, which means that if you leave the brightness setting alone you are now clipping near black content which creates the impression of depth but at the cost of shadow detail. If you correct your brightness setting IT'S STILL WRONG! Why? Video uses below black information and above white information as well, you set brightness to clip below black anyway, but when you extend the standard levels you are now clipping the headroom for superwhite. Which is important and should not be clipped.

The correct thing to do is make sure that white above white (known on the ps3 as superwhite) is passed, use standard video levels, and output as ycbcr, and not rgb. When that happens the hdmi option will be grayed out as it should be.

Yes, but here's what happened with my 590 and PS3. We had all the settings the same as you described (on the PS3 and the TV) with the HDMI Black Level set to Normal. Calibrated the set and took measurements. At the time you couldn't change the HDMI Black Level to Low anyway since it was greyed out in the menu, which is appropriate since it should not be applicable while the TV is receiving a ycbcr signal. He then went to the PS3's XMB screen, which I believe uses RGB, and the HDMI Black Level menu option was now selectable. He changed it to Low. He then re-activated the disc and ran some test screens and did a full set of measurements again, using two different measuring devices and ran the full calibration report again. Black levels improved substantially and every other setting was unaffected. No black crush, etc. Interestingly, the HDMI Black Level was not selectable again because it was a ycbcr signal, even though the black level was noticeably impacted by the change.
Spidergames's Avatar Spidergames
04:16 PM Liked: 14
post #93 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 427
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Another brilliant move. You never toss the box before the return period is up.

No, I thought you meant bended the box...
Techlord's Avatar Techlord
04:30 PM Liked: 11
post #94 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 1,462
Joined: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Another brilliant move. You never toss the box before the return period is up.

I have kept my 10 year old Denon receiver box, which paid off since I accidentally shorted out my Denon AVR-5700 THX Ultra receiver 3 months ago! I learned my lesson and it cost me $289 dollars, blew drive transistors and a whole bunch more! Sending in my Oppo BDP-83 to be upgraded to Special Edition in side my Denon box, Oppo didn't return it. No problem, it served it's purpose!
Techlord's Avatar Techlord
04:33 PM Liked: 11
post #95 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 1,462
Joined: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

No, I thought you meant bended the box...

Bended, what on earth are you talking about?
rallen's Avatar rallen
04:48 PM Liked: 10
post #96 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 282
Joined: Dec 2005
He doesn't know....
Techlord's Avatar Techlord
04:51 PM Liked: 11
post #97 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 1,462
Joined: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallen View Post

He doesn't know....

I want whatever he is smoking, lol!
Aeonus's Avatar Aeonus
05:00 PM Liked: 11
post #98 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 499
Joined: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

Yes, but here's what happened with my 590 and PS3. We had all the settings the same as you described (on the PS3 and the TV) with the HDMI Black Level set to Normal. Calibrated the set and took measurements. At the time you couldn’t change the HDMI Black Level to Low anyway since it was greyed out in the menu, which is appropriate since it should not be applicable while the TV is receiving a ycbcr signal. He then went to the PS3’s XMB screen, which I believe uses RGB, and the HDMI Black Level menu option was now selectable. He changed it to Low. He then re-activated the disc and ran some test screens and did a full set of measurements again, using two different measuring devices and ran the full calibration report again. Black levels improved substantially and every other setting was unaffected. No black crush, etc. Interestingly, the HDMI Black Level was not selectable again because it was a ycbcr signal, even though the black level was noticeably impacted by the change.

Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if there was indeed a bug perhaps in switching video signals.

I stopped using CAL-NIGHT and CAL-DAY settings because I could have sworn the black levels lightened at times in those when switching sources. With Movie Mode I never experience this.
DennyH's Avatar DennyH
05:51 PM Liked: 10
post #99 of 115
12-23-2009 | Posts: 404
Joined: Aug 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techlord View Post

I want whatever he is smoking, lol!

You probably don't
mahlerfan999's Avatar mahlerfan999
02:14 PM Liked: 10
post #100 of 115
12-24-2009 | Posts: 573
Joined: Jan 2008
That is strange Citivas, well I have to admit that there is something strange about the model of tv that you have. I apologize Aeonus and Citivas for thinking you had it wrong, there must be a bug there. Maybe the best thing to do is have the source convert into rgb source then and just use hdmi low. My Sammy's work right, there must be something specific about that model, probably related to that cinema smooth bug. I shouldn't have talked based on my experience with other Sammy tvs that was wrong of me.
BIOHazard87's Avatar BIOHazard87
04:33 PM Liked: 10
post #101 of 115
12-24-2009 | Posts: 100
Joined: Dec 2009
The OP definitely has a point, and there are other people having this problem as well.


For me, Normal on HDMI Black Level looks pretty bad, as the OP is saying. As far as I can tell, I always have the option between Normal/Low when using HDMI. Low was default for me, and it looks far better. Normal looks very washed out, no blacks, etc. Others seem to have a problem of not being able to select "Low" So finding a solution to that or a good reason would be nice.
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
04:38 PM Liked: 177
post #102 of 115
12-24-2009 | Posts: 2,509
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIOHazard87 View Post

The OP definitely has a point, and there are other people having this problem as well.


For me, Normal on HDMI Black Level looks pretty bad, as the OP is saying. As far as I can tell, I always have the option between Normal/Low when using HDMI. Low was default for me, and it looks far better. Normal looks very washed out, no blacks, etc. Others seem to have a problem of not being able to select "Low" So finding a solution to that or a good reason would be nice.

It probably has to do with whether their source device is sending an RGB signal or not. What is your source? Most Blu-ray players do not send RGB. The PS3 is unique since its also a game machine which typically does use RGB. The TV is supposed to grey out the HDMI Black Level setting when it is not. The bug has to do with the fact that Normal should not be degraded and setting Low should have no impact when RGB is not the source, but it seems to at least with some sets.
kanpol's Avatar kanpol
08:32 PM Liked: 11
post #103 of 115
12-24-2009 | Posts: 374
Joined: Nov 2008
happy holidays all I notice on mine if I have the ps3 rgb set to full and the hdmi level set to low I get nice blacks and as far as I can tell no black crush, but I could be wrong. If I switch the hdmi level to normal it gets a lot brighter but in a contrast type way(more washed out).Also if I set rgb to limited and hdmi level to low it is also washed out looking. I prefer rgb full and hdmi level low. I have all my movie on an external usb hard drive hooked to the ps3, so thats why it come thru as rgb, blu ray my hdmi level is greyed out which of course is normal.
craigsward's Avatar craigsward
12:54 PM Liked: 10
post #104 of 115
12-28-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 2007
I'm sure you guys probably already read it, but the pretty recent Tom Huffman review measured blacks at .012, and i belive even better on the next B650 he measured. That seems to be pretty good especially compared to last year.
RobbyTV's Avatar RobbyTV
10:12 PM Liked: 19
post #105 of 115
12-30-2009 | Posts: 1,233
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

If was lieing, i could have kept saying i bought it from bestbuy.. But i didnt.. Plus am not the only one who said the blacks were gray like...

so sometimes you are a liar... and sometimes you are not a liar.

give me a break.........
nolanski's Avatar nolanski
12:36 AM Liked: 10
post #106 of 115
12-31-2009 | Posts: 1,241
Joined: Nov 2006
This thread is useless.
jvernon's Avatar jvernon
07:16 AM Liked: 10
post #107 of 115
12-31-2009 | Posts: 854
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanski View Post

This thread is useless.

Pretty much.
Jonesy11's Avatar Jonesy11
09:34 AM Liked: 10
post #108 of 115
12-31-2009 | Posts: 541
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsward View Post

I'm sure you guys probably already read it, but the pretty recent Tom Huffman review measured blacks at .012, and i belive even better on the next B650 he measured. That seems to be pretty good especially compared to last year.

.012 is good? That depends on what you are used to. I am used to .001, so .012 looks mediocre.
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
09:37 AM Liked: 177
post #109 of 115
12-31-2009 | Posts: 2,509
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

.012 is good? That depends on what you are used to. I am used to .001, so .012 looks mediocre.

Do you actually do anything around here other than hang out in the topics that aren't related to your set and try to bait responses?
dlplover's Avatar dlplover
09:48 AM Liked: 11
post #110 of 115
12-31-2009 | Posts: 2,178
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

.012 is good? That depends on what you are used to. I am used to .001, so .012 looks mediocre.

Yes, my Pioneer also has a lower black level. If you can find a way to export your black levels from whatever set you have to this Samsung PN58650 then great. Otherwise, bragging about your set is rude and counterproductive to finding a solution for them.
suphancyber's Avatar suphancyber
04:44 AM Liked: 10
post #111 of 115
01-21-2010 | Posts: 6
Joined: Dec 2009
Amazing picture quality and so much bigger than my 50inch samsung. I have two Samsung TV's the 58B650 and the 50B650. The 50inch does not buzz but the 58inch buzzes like crazy. I can hear it from about 10-12 feet away. I have to turn the volume up to about 14-15 to drown out the buzzing. Read lots of reviews and looks like the only fix is to get lucky and get one that does not buzz. I had it exchanged once and the new set also buzzes as well. Looks like I'll be exchanging it again. If you get a set that does not buzz your lucky!!
Jeffs386's Avatar Jeffs386
08:55 AM Liked: 10
post #112 of 115
01-21-2010 | Posts: 578
Joined: Feb 2009
Samsung build quality is very poor and customer support is even worse
Spidergames's Avatar Spidergames
09:32 AM Liked: 14
post #113 of 115
01-21-2010 | Posts: 427
Joined: Nov 2006
A small update, "I think" the blacks got alittle better over time and I'am still trying to get used too not having 120hz sony's MF...
mreynolds767's Avatar mreynolds767
10:16 AM Liked: 10
post #114 of 115
01-21-2010 | Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2007
Sounds like the title of this thread should be edited?
Initial comments by the OP bashing a perfectly good tv seem to be only related to bugs within cinema smooth?

A real shame there are bugs in cinema smooth and that does suck, but the blacks overall are fine on this set IMO and for the money I don't think you can buy a better brand than Samsung in the 58" size.
I prefer it greatly to Panasonic and the Samsung is cheaper in the 58" size.
Sure the high end units and Pioneer brands may be better but they are also more expensive by a good deal.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer
11:58 AM Liked: 13
post #115 of 115
01-21-2010 | Posts: 1,611
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsward View Post

I'm sure you guys probably already read it, but the pretty recent Tom Huffman review measured blacks at .012, and i belive even better on the next B650 he measured. That seems to be pretty good especially compared to last year.

I'm confident the black levels of the B650 are better than .012 after a period of time. In my experience the Panasonic S1 is just a hair better in black levels than the B650, and the S1's black level measurement has never been measured as high as .012 that I'm aware of.

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