Panasonic 2010 Plasma Models - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Are you speaking of the ISFccc interface that is now on the VT series? If so, that's all Joel Silver and he has been working on getting that added to Panasonic consumer displays for about 2+ years now


Hi D-Nice!

I am not into deep technical stuff so cannot be certain but can tell you it was an issue that upset a lot of folks in the UK - that European & North American models allowed for far more & better picture adjustments/calibration control than the UK ones although the UK ones did have a THX mode instead. In retrospect, if I am in error in any way (as I was commenting from memory) then I will be the first to acknowledge so & apologise!

By the way, D-Nice, when are you planning to to London to calibrate my 5090H? There's good English beer waiting here for you!

Bazzy!
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post #452 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

From the way it looks, 75% of 3D has to do with content being sent to the unit. Therefor 2D will play as normal.

This is actually something I've been taking for granted all along. I don't think many people would be willing to suddenly and completely rebuy their whole DVD and BD collection in 3D format, just because the old 2D discs wouldn't work anymore on their brand new 3D sets

What I really meant is: if I owned a 3D-ready set with a 3D-ready player and I bought a 3D bluray, would I still be able to access 2D content if I so wanted? (The question would only apply in case 2D-only blurays stopped being released in the long run, of course).
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post #453 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

Funny how in the crt days, no one had a special name for black. Probably because it actually was black.

All these fancy names are saying one thing; Not Quite Black.

Not in my wildest dreams did I think we'd be in the year 2010 and digital displays still would not be making a real black.

Does a local dimming led count? Nay.

I think it was George Carlin who was talking about "Home Style" meaning that it absolutely was not made at home. Perhaps we have Black Style.
That said, the new models look to be a big improvement so I probably will finally upgrade my 657UY. I would get a Professional series if I can wait that long... Maybe the VX200 will hold some surprises...

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post #454 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Where do you go from here when they have a 0 luminescence panel. Black Hole Black, Ultimate Black, Absolute black, No Really, We Mean it this time, It really is Black

None More Black.
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post #455 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5ster View Post


"I spent a lot of time at Panasonic's CES exhibit and viewed their demo of the new 2010 Infinite Black dedicated demo room. They had the Infinite Black directrly next to the current V10 in a almost totally black room. Both panels looked very good, but to my surprise I liked the current V10 pq better. It had more detail in the image and the black level was extremly close to the 2010 Infinite Black model."

So Phil Hinton sees the new Panasonic as being the embodiment of his 5090 Kuro and along comes Robert who says they both look good but he prefers the old Panasonic.

LOL....maybe its the calibration!
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post #456 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:04 AM
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There's a quick review of the P65VT25 at http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...eview-1495.htm

He doesn't say much that's new but he has a good edge-on shot, showing the controls and the depth. It looks like about 2 1/4" inches to me.
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post #457 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:08 AM
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Vaccuum black.
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post #458 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFR View Post

So Phil Hinton sees the new Panasonic as being the embodiment of his 5090 Kuro and along comes Robert who says they both look good but he prefers the old Panasonic.

LOL....maybe its the calibration!


Hi,

Are they not in pretty much agreement with each other then? Both say that they prefer (from what they saw at the time) the PQ of the current V10's over the new 2010 Panny "Infinite Black" models on show.

Phil was referring to the V25 which has the "Infinite Black Pro" that he felt was so close to the G9 Kuros unless I am missing something! It would be interesting then to hear Robert's take on the PQ of the V25's and see if he concurs with Phil.

Bazzy!
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post #459 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

With the deepest of respect, it is you who is just assuming things about what the guy did - I happen to know Phil Hinton personally and can attest that he gives 100% and lives, breathes & reports on this stuff - he is not just some "read a script" presenter - he fully understands & knows what he is talking about. He also has many, many strong relationships across the AV world & again, with respect, probably far, far more in the know & qualified to say so than most here.
Bazzy.

Bazzy,
Your post is completely off base as you've misunderstood what I said. My comments were NOT about Phil Hinton. The person I quoted referenced what could be considered as an unfavorable review that is in a way contradictory to what Phil Hinton has said. I AM aware of Phil Hinton and his comments. You can see earlier in the thread I have quoted him as I liked what he had to say about the VT25. His review is one of the ones that has me 99% set on calling Panasonic and canceling my order for the 65V10... see below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5ster View Post

This sounds in contrast to the comment of Phil Hinton (reviewer @ UK avforums) not quite as euphoric in relation to the 2010 V-series black level.


"I spent a lot of time at Panasonic's CES exhibit and viewed their demo of the new 2010 Infinite Black dedicated demo room. They had the Infinite Black directrly next to the current V10 in a almost totally black room. Both panels looked very good, but to my surprise I liked the current V10 pq better. It had more detail in the image and the black level was extremly close to the 2010 Infinite Black model."




Ok, AVS don't allows to link to the source, it's the forum which is ending ...junkies.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Well that is somewhat discouraging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlh1005 View Post

Na, we've seen 2 or 3 others contradict those comments, and those guys were specifically going to report the likeness and differences... this guy almost seems like he just went by in passing and wasn't really interested. I don't know any of them personally so obviously things must be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm going with the positive reviews so far.

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post #460 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Are they not in pretty much agreement with each other then? Both say that they prefer (from what they saw at the time) the PQ of the current V10's over the new 2010 Panny "Infinite Black" models on show.

I have not seen Phil post an opinion, just his observations.If he has, please post a link as I would like to read them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Phil was referring to the V25 which has the "Infinite Black Pro" that he felt was so close to the G9 Kuros unless I am missing something! It would be interesting then to hear Robert's take on the PQ of the V25's and see if he concurs with Phil.

As I see it, the dark room presentation on the floor of CES has a new panel labeled "Infinite Black 5,000,000 : 1" next to a current V10.

Thats the panel Phil stands in front of and makes the comments about his 5090. Its also the panel Robert refers to in the "Infinite Black dedicated demo room".

It should also be pointed out that, based on Panasonic specs, that is the new G panel as only the new V panel has the "Infinite Black Pro".

Beyond that, my post was meant to spot light the irony of what has been said.In fairness to you the only way you would get that was if you had followed closely what has transpired here over the last year.
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post #461 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Has the difference between "Infinity Black" and "Infinity Black Pro" been explained? Do these terms exclusively reference the AR filter or are they tied into the tech somehow?

Nobody then? D-Nice? Chris? Anyone? I just want to know if we should expect darkened-room PQ to be any different in the G and V series. (referring to two dimensions, obviously)
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post #462 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chris Ruhl View Post

Vaccuum black.

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post #463 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

V10 blacks are fine I just new the question was going to come sooner or later.

-Bottom line is the new units have to be tested on site at CP before I am going to make a statement saying there is a new king in town

Well said , untill these new panels are side by side in a controlled environment with the likes of 111FDs or 500Ms, performances are all subjective and speculative.

Gman
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post #464 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Apparently, marketing blacks are not good enough. We have Infinite black and Infinite Black Pro.

Where do you go from here when they have a 0 luminescence panel.
Black Hole Black, Ultimate Black, Absolute black, No Really, We Mean it this time, It really is Black

- Rich

hey, now lets not forget Schwartz Black

hehe, couldn't resist!.
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post #465 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicheyPoor View Post

There's a quick review of the P65VT25 at http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...eview-1495.htm

He doesn't say much that's new but he has a good edge-on shot, showing the controls and the depth. It looks like about 2 1/4" inches to me.

He says it has a glossy black bezel? Thought that the new V was supposed to be brushed metal in appearance?
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post #466 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Has the difference between "Infinity Black" and "Infinity Black Pro" been explained? Do these terms exclusively reference the AR filter or are they tied into the tech somehow?

Let me see if i can address this:

The first gives you infinite helmet.... the second, great infinite helmet, but u pay for it !

.... allright I'll stop.
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post #467 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tlh1005 View Post

Bazzy,
Your post is completely off base as you've misunderstood what I said. My comments were NOT about Phil Hinton. The person I quoted referenced what could be considered as an unfavorable review that is in a way contradictory to what Phil Hinton has said. I AM aware of Phil Hinton and his comments. You can see earlier in the thread I have quoted him as I liked what he had to say about the VT25. His review is one of the ones that has me 99% set on calling Panasonic and canceling my order for the 65V10... see below:

Hi,

Tlh1005!

If I have misunderstood you then I will be the first to apologise but I hope you can understand why I felt the need to defend someone i personally know & deeply respect! The misunderstanding may have been when I read that you felt he only had a quick look and briefly commented (or something like that) after his very opening sentence was something like "Having spent considerable time with Panasonic etc.." I honestly thought it was about Phil & not this other person at the time of reading!

Please accept my sincere apologies then & feel free to ask me for a beer when next in England!

Bazzy!
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post #468 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFR View Post

I have not seen Phil post an opinion, just his observations.If he has, please post a link as I would like to read them.



As I see it, the dark room presentation on the floor of CES has a new panel labeled "Infinite Black 5,000,000 : 1" next to a current V10.

Thats the panel Phil stands in front of and makes the comments about his 5090. Its also the panel Robert refers to in the "Infinite Black dedicated demo room".

It should also be pointed out that, based on Panasonic specs, that is the new G panel as only the new V panel has the "Infinite Black Pro".

Beyond that, my post was meant to spot light the irony of what has been said.In fairness to you the only way you would get that was if you had followed closely what has transpired here over the last year.


Hi VFR,

Not a problem matey, I too am confused which is why I kinda worded things as question! Looking back, you are perfectly correct - Phil was indeed looking at a new G series & not the "Infinite Black Pro" VT25. I think my assuming that Phil was looking at a V25 was that in another UK forum, it was stated only the V25 will have infinite black pro as it needs the faster discharge & decay for 3D stuff but which will invariably lead to better blacks.

It is confusing (to me at least) & I did see the light irony of your post - my response was not one of actual fact but based on bemusement myself!


Bazzy!
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post #469 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:16 AM
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The back and forth in this forum never ceases to amaze

As many have said, knowledgeable reviewers need time with these new sets to determine their quality level compared to already released benchmarks--like the kuros. In the meantime, it seems like we can be sure of a few things; Panasonic is working with Pioneer tech and former employees to try to improve picture quality of their plasmas. Several knowledgeable people have spent limited time looking at the sets and are impressed and enthusiastic about the results. For anyone who likes plasma as a display technology, that's got to be good news. Can we all agree on that?

probably not in this forum...
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post #470 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,

Tlh1005!

If I have misunderstood you then I will be the first to apologise but I hope you can understand why I felt the need to defend someone i personally know & deeply respect! The misunderstanding may have been when I read that you felt he only had a quick look and briefly commented (or something like that) after his very opening sentence was something like "Having spent considerable time with Panasonic etc.." I honestly thought it was about Phil & not this other person at the time of reading!

Please accept my sincere apologies then & feel free to ask me for a beer when next in England!

Bazzy!

Thanks man, people do attack others' credentials around here on a regular basis so I understand where you were coming from!
Cheers!
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post #471 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev666il View Post

What I really meant is: if I owned a 3D-ready set with a 3D-ready player and I bought a 3D bluray, would I still be able to access 2D content if I so wanted? (The question would only apply in case 2D-only blurays stopped being released in the long run, of course).

They will work as normal.
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post #472 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 09:58 AM
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What about Chorny Black? (for the Ukes out there).

I guess I am going to love the blacks on the new sets as I am sitting in front of a cheap Insignia 26" LCD right now and the blacks look fine to me, lol! On my current plasma (a 50PX77 from 2007) I get more worked up over motion blur, a glossy bezel that should be matte, a wide bezel, screen reflections and the flashy silver Panasonic logo on the front of set. It looks like they took care of a lot of this but not all on the new sets.
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post #473 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bazzy View Post

hi rich,

i guess we will have to wait & see what transpires but i hope for the sake of plasma, they these sets do raise the bar enough to maintain mainstream acceptance that plasma is still better at blacks (amongst other things) than the onslaught of led-lcd's that will hit the news soon!

By the way, is it just me or do the new v series look like they are devoid of the one panel of glass look of the 2009 sets?


Bazzy!

+10

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post #474 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

This video was just posted at the CES show.Thought I share it.. Is Kuro back?

http://www.youtube.com/user/AVForums.../5/_-6p0BFlUVs

At roughly 3:00 in they talk about the improvements in the phosphors, but the Panasonic rep specifically mentions the VT series when talking about it. Can anyone confirm if the improved phosphors will be in the G (maybe S) series as well? The G series claims Infinite Black like the V series so I would assume that it shares the same panel but a concrete confirmation would be nice.

Oh, and did they do away with that red "just in case you couldn't tell from the picture on the screen, your TV is on" led on the front for 2010?
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post #475 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtVandelae View Post

At roughly 3:00 in they talk about the improvements in the phosphors, but the Panasonic rep specifically mentions the VT series when talking about it. Can anyone confirm if the improved phosphors will be in the G (maybe S) series as well? The G series claims Infinite Black like the V series so I would assume that it shares the same panel but a concrete confirmation would be nice.

Oh, and did they do away with that red "just in case you couldn't tell from the picture on the screen, your TV is on" led on the front for 2010?

What I've gathered from D-Nice is that both V and G should have equal 2D performance (though I still don't know what the difference between infinite black and black pro is, if there is any), S is a 'crippled' G, and U and C are just plain garbage.
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post #476 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtVandelae View Post

At roughly 3:00 in they talk about the improvements in the phosphors, but the Panasonic rep specifically mentions the VT series when talking about it. Can anyone confirm if the improved phosphors will be in the G (maybe S) series as well? The G series claims Infinite Black like the V series so I would assume that it shares the same panel but a concrete confirmation would be nice.

Oh, and did they do away with that red "just in case you couldn't tell from the picture on the screen, your TV is on" led on the front for 2010?

The G and VT series probably share the same panel. The fact that they have the same contrast ratio and an "infinite black" panel (although the VT is pro, whatever that means) suggests this. The information that Panasonic gives their reps probably only states that fast phosphors will be used to allow for their 3D tech so that is all the they reference when asked about it. The reps are very conscious about staying as close to the marketing material as possible.

Current Equipment:
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post #477 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 11:05 AM
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Thanks, Cleveland Plasma
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post #478 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 11:05 AM
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Panasonic says that their 2010 plasmas use only a fraction of the power of the 2007 sets. Does anyone know what the fraction is or how much energy these sets use in comparison to the 2009 models? Since I am buying a P65S1 and energy efficiency is very important to me (not just from a money standpoint) I am wondering whether to wait for the P65S2. Has anyone seen the energy efficiency chart this is Panasonic`s booth.
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post #479 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eonibm View Post

Panasonic says that their 2010 plasmas use only a fraction of the power of the 2007 sets. Does anyone know what the fraction is or how much energy these sets use in comparison to the 2009 models?


I posted this but I have not seen much else posted.
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post #480 of 5848 Old 01-09-2010, 11:55 AM
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So I guess that means about a 50% reduction in power consumption if you extrapolate that across the entire line. That means a 65 inch display would cost about $65 in default mode and $45 calibrated to have on for a year, ie 365 days, assuming it's turned on for 5.2 hours a day and off for 18.8 hours (at 11.35 cents per kilowatt hour, which is about what we pay here in Toronto, Canada for electricity).

Pretty good! That is only 12 cents a day for electricity, calibrated!
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