Panasonic 2010 Plasma Models - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Pikasauce View Post

Not only did Panasonic keep the 24fps playback exclusive to the V series but it's also the only top-tier series to have a 65" set. I was hoping they would announce a model that had all the new features sans 3-D (which I don't really care about).

I had hoped that too. So now I have to decide whether to take delivery of my P65S1 for $2,199 + 8% tax from Sears (but they have no stock and don't know when and if they will) or wait until the spring for the P65S2 to arrive.

As for the P65V2, I guess another way to look at it is that it is a new and improved version of the P65V1 and just happens, because of it's better specs, to do 3D (so the 3D capability is thrown in for free).

Pricing will be the most important factor in my decision and methinks that it will be at least until next fall until the new sets are discounted like this years ones were.
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post #182 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 08:29 AM
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what are u talking about what is sans 3d talk english please the new 65 has everything in it
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post #183 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

funny how a 2007-08 8G KURO still beats these tv's...why can no one get upto to KURO levels...its just weird to me that we have all this technology and the one company who is now gone from plasmas was the only company to be able to acheive mostly every ones viewing and PQ satisfaction. I dont get it are the Pioneer KURO workers robots...just weird to me. I know i sound a little fan boyish but its like come one how can no one get to the KURO level, especially Panny, they are very profitable and im sure can spend some loot on trying to get to KURO level. at least get to the 8G level cause im sure we wont see a panny any time soon that can compete with the 9G's

It's probably a shrewd realization on the part of Panasonic that 99% of the public never really knew about the Kuro or how great it was. They are selling to the masses, not the select few hard-core videophiles.
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post #184 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hi2udavid View Post

So the 2010 models will include Pandora. Does that mean my 2009 model will be upgraded too or am I stuck with out it?


I'd assume (but not guarantee) that the VieraCast upgrades will be made available via a firmware upgrade.
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post #185 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 08:53 AM
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Looks like if you want color control in a Pana, you're gonna pay through the nose for it AND 3D tech you may or may not want. Before they start piling 3D compatibility on top of how their lineup handles Blu-ray sources, they ought to make sure their lineup has the basics right across the board. What they needed to do (years ago) was push the (adequate) color controls to the lower/midrange models, not tout them as a differentiating feature for only the most expensive models in 2010. IT'S 2010 FOR CHRISSAKES LET'S GET IT DONE, STOP ACTING LIKE AN ADEQUATE CMS IS SOMETHING NOVEL.

"And new for our 2012 lineup: TV's that float in a mag-lev stand and respond to telepathic commands....and gamma control!" LOL

Maybe color accuracy is improved for the lower lines out of the box...but then, their track record doesn't indicate they care about that aspect so much. If the 24p/96Hz feature isn't present in all models by now, then it sure ought to be as well...
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post #186 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

It's probably a shrewd realization on the part of Panasonic that 99% of the public never really knew about the Kuro or how great it was. They are selling to the masses, not the select few hard-core videophiles.

Hey, I'd like to see the Kuro technology in Panny's new products too, but calling Panasonic 'shrewd' is giving them way too much credit. Selling what 99% of the market needs and wants is just Business 101.
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post #187 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:21 AM
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So much 3D hate. Do you guys realize this isn't anything new? The only recent development is that shutter glasses are now refreshing at 120hz (So each eye goes at 60fps and headaches are eliminated.)

These new 3D sets are supporting this technology by finally having inputs capable of receiving 120hz signals. You could buy a CRT monitor 10 years ago for 150 dollars that had this ability. So I think it's safe to say this is not driving up the costs of these sets.

Sure, if they include a set of glasses that's driving up the cost a little. But that's the only real additional cost. And it's definitely adding a lot less to the cost than all of these wireless features I have no use for. It seems like a HTPC already does all of this and much better.

I guess what I'm rambling about is this: I'm the opposite of most. I wanted a Panny Plasma that could do 3D with Nvidia's vision glasses. Adding a 120hz input would have added nothing to the cost. Instead, they've forced it with a bunch of stuff that legitimately adds heavy premiums. And I'm disappointed.
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post #188 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

lol...lets see if panny can keep the contrast ratio from decreasing and the black level from doubling this time around. And mayeb they can put some of that KURO image retention technology in them so that they completely wipe out IR from this years new models. Had a KURO and never had one IR problem ever so maybe panny can try to do that. They look and sound nice but we wont know what they are like until one us owns them. Would also be nice if they get rid of that damn green haze over the pictures. I saw a comparison of a 5020 to a V or G series and the Pannys looked really green for some reason.

I had a pro-141 and it had worse IR than my v10... i do not understand with new panels people are so freaked out with IR if it goes away relatively quickly...

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post #189 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

So much 3D hate. Do you guys realize this isn't anything new? The only recent development is that shutter glasses are now refreshing at 120hz (So each eye goes at 60fps and headaches are eliminated.)

These new 3D sets are supporting this technology by finally having inputs capable of receiving 120hz signals. You could buy a CRT monitor 10 years ago for 150 dollars that had this ability. So I think it's safe to say this is not driving up the costs of these sets.

Sure, if they include a set of glasses that's driving up the cost a little. But that's the only real additional cost. And it's definitely adding a lot less to the cost than all of these wireless features I have no use for. It seems like a HTPC already does all of this and much better.

I guess what I'm rambling about is this: I'm the opposite of most. I wanted a Panny Plasma that could do 3D with Nvidia's vision glasses. Adding a 120hz input would have added nothing to the cost. Instead, they've forced it with a bunch of stuff that legitimately adds heavy premiums. And I'm disappointed.

I agree. I already get the wireless features with my current set-up and don't need to pay extra for the TV to incorporate it.

But, isn't adding 3D capability to a TV more than just having 120hz input (aside from the signal source and glasses and associated software). Didn't they have to modify the panel in other ways too or is that just it? ie all of the stuff they mentioned they changed as discussed here on their website: http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/3d/technology/index.html That seems to be more than just increasing the frequency to 120hz.

As for the blacks, image retention, etc., it would be nice to hear from someone who has been in the Panasonic booth at CES and watched the new models to hear what they think about these aspects of the new sets.
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post #190 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:29 AM
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So how does CES work...are people able to actually get some face time with these TV's? If so, we will probably get a lot more grounded information (as opposed to marketing specs) soon right? Or will we have to wait until closer to when the TV's are made available for sale? Sorry for the naive question!
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post #191 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cgull View Post

So how does CES work...are people able to actually get some face time with these TV's? If so, we will probably get a lot more grounded information (as opposed to marketing specs) soon right? Or will we have to wait until closer to when the TV's are made available for sale? Sorry for the naive question!

I've been to CES a number of times and you get to stand in front of the TV's at the booths and watch them and ask questions as long as you want. I am surprised no one at the show has chirped in here yet!
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post #192 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:40 AM
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Wonder how fast the few remaining Kuros will fly off the shelf now. There are deals to be had on open box and display sets for those unimpressed with the new Panasonics...
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post #193 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by eonibm View Post

I've been to CES a number of times and you get to stand in front of the TV's at the booths and watch them and ask questions as long as you want. I am surprised no one at the show has chirped in here yet!

because it just started a few minutes ago! LOL
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post #194 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 09:41 AM
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High Speed 3D Drive Technology

The Frame Sequential technology of FULL HD 3D requires the images to be displayed at 1/120 of a second, which is twice as fast as ordinary full-HD images. If the luminescence time for each frame were simply shortened, the screen brightness would be lowered. To solve this problem, the luminescence time was shortened and the luminescence intensity was raised, which made it possible to produce bright, crisp 3D images. The high-speed processing capability doubles the gradation of 2D images in comparison with conventional playback. This produces vivid coloring with a tonal expression that approaches the levels we see in nature.

Crosstalk Reduction Technology

The Frame Sequential technology shortens the luminescence time for each frame. If the pixel afterglow remains unchanged, the previous image will remain as an afterimage when the next image is produced. Newly developed fast-decay R and G phosphors reduce the afterimage time to 1/3, to create crisp 3D images with no visible afterimage.

The question I have now is whether these improvements will be in all of the 1080p sets or only the V series. I'm looking to buy a 42" model soon and am trying to decide if the new models are worth the wait and increased price vs the fantastic deals that can be had on the current models now.
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post #195 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:05 AM
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Looking at the press release it appears the V series is using a different panel called the Infinite Black Pro. G series down use Infinite Black.

I can't wait for these to be available so we can actually compare them to the 12g models and see exactly what performance boast we are actually talking about. The whole 3D thing is cool but I really don't care much about it until there is a lot more programming available. ESPN and Discovery is a good start but more is needed. I really don't see 3D taking off for a few years anyway.

I think the biggest problem I have with the look of my S1 is the Panasonic name on the front. They use simple letters that are rather large and boring. I understand they have used the same font since before I was born but it is really blah. The overall shape of the TV is fine for me. I don't mind the piano black finish either as my speakers, cabinet and some of my gear is in the same finish. just sucks if I have lights on that reflect when watching TV.

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post #196 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:17 AM
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I'm in LOVE with my current 54V10 and I'm going to be in the market for a 65" this summer when I finish off my basement. I'm not into this 3D stuff, heck not all movies have even hit the Blu-ray market yet. Even worse, some regular HD programming is still junk. And many shows are still stuck in plain old standard definition! At this rate, it will take a decade or more before 3-D is really out there.

I sure hope there will be some 12G 65" V10s left when these new models come out and possibly save me a few pennies too...
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post #197 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:34 AM
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Do I understand correctly (from Panasonic's press release) that their 2010 line will feature a CMS to adjust the gamut to the rec709 reference standard?

And 24p/96hz limited to the V series? Why would they do that?
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post #198 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
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[quote=mbyrnes;17871917]Looking at the press release it appears the V series is using a different panel called the Infinite Black Pro. G series down use Infinite Black.

I can't wait for these to be available so we can actually compare them to the 12g models and see exactly what performance boast we are actually talking about.QUOTE]


I hear ya. I can't wait to know exactly what the difference is, both technology and performance-wise, between the Infinite Black and Infinite Black Pro panels that were mentioned. Could be something signficant, or just marketing bs.

If I remember right, the 2009 12g Panasonics had little to no difference among the V10, G10, and S10 in terms of black levels ( or was it basically the same just between the V10 and G10?) Someone correct me if I am wrong. Maybe this year the VT25 will be that much better than the G25/G20, or it will be a repeat of 2009 when the V10's main advantage over the G10 was its features and larger screen sizes.
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post #199 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ev666il View Post

Do I understand correctly (from Panasonic's press release) that their 2010 line will feature a CMS to adjust the gamut to the rec709 reference standard?

And 24p/96hz limited to the V series? Why would they do that?

I only saw mention of the color controls in the VT25 description.
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post #200 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ev666il View Post

Do I understand correctly (from Panasonic's press release) that their 2010 line will feature a CMS to adjust the gamut to the rec709 reference standard?

Where does it say anything about CMS? It would be a great feature to have.
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post #201 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:02 AM
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I took the "ISFccc" modes to indicate that a full CMS system must be available...any of you gurus out there want to chime in on whether this is the case, or is it simply a couple of presets with no indicator of whether or not the tv has a full CMS?
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post #202 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:04 AM
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I took the "ISFccc" modes to indicate that a full CMS system must be available

Not necessarily. It could only have grayscale and gamma controls like the VX100 series.

I've already put in a request for more info on the new feature.
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post #203 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:10 AM
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With the new fast decaying phosphor did they finally fix the phosphor lag?
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post #204 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Not necessarily. It could only have grayscale and gamma controls like the VX100 series.

I've already put in a request for more info on the new feature.

Sorry if I've created any confusion...but my point stands that we should expect these features to be available, at least at a service menu level, in even the most run of the mill televisions produced in this century. I understand differentiating features creates price differences between models/series, but a CMS shouldn't be an expensive option, it should be standard.
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post #205 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hithere View Post

I took the "ISFccc" modes to indicate that a full CMS system must be available...any of you gurus out there want to chime in on whether this is the case, or is it simply a couple of presets with no indicator of whether or not the tv has a full CMS?

http://www.imagingscience.com/ccc/pdf/ISFccc.pdf
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post #206 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:13 AM
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Crosstalk Reduction Technology

The Frame Sequential technology shortens the luminescence time for each frame. If the pixel afterglow remains unchanged, the previous image will remain as an afterimage when the next image is produced. Newly developed fast-decay R and G phosphors reduce the afterimage time to 1/3, to create crisp 3D images with no visible afterimage.

Would this happen to mean that there will be no more phosphor trails? Or is this something unrelated? I would have to say that IMO phosphor trails are the worst thing about plasmas so if they eliminated them that would be great.
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post #207 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:16 AM
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D-Nice, will all the NeoPDP panels be the same like the 09 models just with different firmware, or will the V series actually have deeper blacks than the G and S? Is Infinite Black Pro just marketing BS or is it something significant?

By the way, are you at CES right now looking at these televisions?
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post #208 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

D-Nice, will all the NeoPDP panels be the same like the 09 models just with different firmware, or will the V series actually have deeper blacks than the G and S? Is Infinite Black Pro just marketing BS or is it something significant?

By the way, are you at CES right now looking at these televisions?

Difference between V and G.....


Look at Pioneer and see the defference between a non-Elite and Elite when it comes to "filters" for your answer
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post #209 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

D-Nice, will all the NeoPDP panels be the same like the 09 models just with different firmware, or will the V series actually have deeper blacks than the G and S? Is Infinite Black Pro just marketing BS or is it something significant?

By the way, are you at CES right now looking at these televisions?

Also, will there be differences in black levels between sizes, like there are with the larger V10 series? (58/65")

So many questions!
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post #210 of 5848 Old 01-07-2010, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Difference between V and G.....


Look at Pioneer and see the defference between a non-Elite and Elite when it comes to "filters" for your answer

Someone with more knowledge will have to help me out on that one. Never owned a Kuro.
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