Pioneer Kuro 60" 141FD vs. 600M? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Since apparently nothing superior to the Kuros was announced at CES this year, I'm looking at the Pioneer 60" monitors before they disappear from the face of the earth.

I would appreciate it if anyone can confirm the specific details on the differences between the 141FD and 600M models. I've combed through the threads here and believe I have the basic information, but the threads have gotten quite overwhelming at this point and I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Here's what I understand:

The 141FD and 600M are basically the same (9G) panel, but here's what I understand the differences to be:

The 600M is a "newer" panel, but does not have the "ISFccc" mode that allows ISF calibrators to achieve quite the same level of control

The 600M only has 2 HDMI inputs, while the 141FD has 4

The 600M is significantly less expensive than the 141FD.

Not sure on this point, but the 600M is not an "Elite" model, and therefore may not have "hand-picked" components?

Although it's subjective, the 141FD is felt to be a more "attractively designed" panel

I DO plan on having the set ISF calibrated, so the ISFccc mode may be appealing.

If I'm considering a Kuro, obviously I'm willing to spend a decent amount of money on a display, but I guess I'm just curious: if the major difference between these models is the lack of a special ISF mode and 2 fewer HDMI inputs on the 600M (which I don't need, since I'll just be hooking it up to my receiver's HDMI out that already has all my components connected), is the 141FD really "worth" ~$1,000+ more dollars for those features? Or do I have some facts wrong?

Also, given that both of these models are discontinued, at this point (mid-January 2010), is either one more available than the other? I understand the 600M is intended for installers and not consumers. If anyone has a link to any reputable sellers with either of these models still in stock at a non-gouging price, I'd sure appreciate hearing about them.

Thanks,
R

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post #2 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 12:59 AM
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Good luck, man. I've been on the hunt of all hunts for a 141 or 600M (preferably open box or floor model since I'm not a rich man) and supply is short. As of mid-week the Lakewood, CA Best Buy had a new-in-box 141 and they wanted full MSRP but would negotiate down to the low $6000's. There are also some eBay sellers with new panels, but prices are in the high $5000's. No forum sponsor seems to have any either.

Basically, if you can find it, buy it. Were I smarter with my money I would have already purchased that 141, but I'm one of those stupid a-holes who has to have a roof over his head and food on his plate. I'm so ashamed, Kuros are so much better than food and shelter.

Best of luck.
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Originally Posted by noahabel View Post

Basically, if you can find it, buy it. Were I smarter with my money I would have already purchased that 141, but I'm one of those stupid a-holes who has to have a roof over his head and food on his plate. I'm so ashamed, Kuros are so much better than food and shelter.

Best of luck.

Silly me, I moved to my 3rd home, waiting 51 years before buying a Kuro PDP. What the heck was I thinking?
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 06:09 AM
 
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post #5 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post

Since apparently nothing superior to the Kuros was announced at CES this year, I'm looking at the Pioneer 60" monitors before they disappear from the face of the earth.

I would appreciate it if anyone can confirm the specific details on the differences between the 141FD and 600M models. I've combed through the threads here and believe I have the basic information, but the threads have gotten quite overwhelming at this point and I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Here's what I understand:

The 141FD and 600M are basically the same (9G) panel, but here's what I understand the differences to be:

The 600M is a "newer" panel, but does not have the "ISFccc" mode that allows ISF calibrators to achieve quite the same level of control

The 600M only has 2 HDMI inputs, while the 141FD has 4

The 600M is significantly less expensive than the 141FD.

Not sure on this point, but the 600M is not an "Elite" model, and therefore may not have "hand-picked" components?

Although it's subjective, the 141FD is felt to be a more "attractively designed" panel

I DO plan on having the set ISF calibrated, so the ISFccc mode may be appealing.

If I'm considering a Kuro, obviously I'm willing to spend a decent amount of money on a display, but I guess I'm just curious: if the major difference between these models is the lack of a special ISF mode and 2 fewer HDMI inputs on the 600M (which I don't need, since I'll just be hooking it up to my receiver's HDMI out that already has all my components connected), is the 141FD really "worth" ~$1,000+ more dollars for those features? Or do I have some facts wrong?

Also, given that both of these models are discontinued, at this point (mid-January 2010), is either one more available than the other? I understand the 600M is intended for installers and not consumers. If anyone has a link to any reputable sellers with either of these models still in stock at a non-gouging price, I'd sure appreciate hearing about them.

Thanks,
R

get the 600M if you can find it. With the patch, there is very little difference between it and the 141. once patched and calibrated, the only difference is one less HDMI input, the elite badge on the front vs a standard pioneer badge, and the 600M has a shorter warranty
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post #6 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 07:20 AM
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I picked up both a 141 and 600M during the summer price meltdown and have to say that the 141 looks slightly better out of the box. I have not had either unit calibrated as of yet but I plan to have both done in the near future. I think calibration will likely bring the 600M up to par with the 141. Both units are difficult to find right now, and the discount pricing seems to have evaporated. I would suggest that you go with the best bargain on either unit, if you can find one. Good Luck!
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Given the similarity and now rarity of both models, it sounds like the wisdom is "get the first one you can find", and on the off-chance I can find one of each in stock, "get whichever one is less expensive at this point." That'll work for me, thanks guys. I'm off to do some hunting.

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post #8 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post

Given the similarity and now rarity of both models, it sounds like the wisdom is "get the first one you can find", and on the off-chance I can find one of each in stock, "get whichever one is less expensive at this point."

Yes, this is the advice I give as well at this point due to availability.

Now, I do know of Elite Dealers that have stock on the Elites including the Signatures.. They are selling them near retail and don't have problems doing so (and I doubt will have any problems going forward for the time being). Their Custom Install clients have no problem paying the price.

I've been told this by several Elite Dealers (with stock now): "We know what these panels are worth.


*Please don't ask me which dealers, I'm going to ignore these requests.

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post #9 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 10:55 AM
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they are both to much money now.

I would wait for the V25 65" model myself if I had that klnd of money to spend.

now a 600M at 3 grand is a deal.... but this deal is no longer with us.
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Yes, this is the advice I give as well at this point due to availability.

Now, I do know of Elite Dealers that have stock on the Elites including the Signatures.. They are selling them near retail and don't have problems doing so (and I doubt will have any problems going forward for the time being). Their Custom Install clients have no problem paying the price.

I've been told this by several Elite Dealers (with stock now): "We know what these panels are worth.


*Please don't ask me which dealers, I'm going to ignore these requests.

wrong... if you look on eBay they are not selling to well because the price is way to much.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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wrong... if you look on eBay they are not selling to well because the price is way to much.

Your first problem is looking on ebay.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to find a 600M online for $4999, and a 141FD for $6500.

I pulled the trigger on the 600M! Sure wish I had acted earlier when the price drop had them at around $3000, but that's my own fault. I had budgeted ~$5k for a display in my new theater anyway, so this is still in line with what I was expecting.

-R

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post #13 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbyTV View Post

wrong... if you look on eBay they are not selling to well because the price is way to much.

Perhaps you don't know of the Custom Install Market, a good percentage of the new stock left at the independent dealers are being reserved for this market

I understand that many of us wouldn't pay these prices, but there are plenty in that market that will (where the display is just a small percentage of the total budget).

I know of one Custom Installer who just sold 6 600M's to one high end client (for one Residence), the price that the 600M's were sold for was much higher than the pricing we were seeing.. Installation, calibration, audio upgrade, Home Theater room was also part of the project.

I think you may be surprised how many are looking for the KRP-M's (and the Elites for that matter)... one tip, the Resellers I know of who have stock are not willing to ship these Displays (Delivery in their vehicles only).

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post #14 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post

I was able to find a 600M online for $4999, and a 141FD for $6500.

I pulled the trigger on the 600M! Sure wish I had acted earlier when the price drop had them at around $3000, but that's my own fault. I had budgeted ~$5k for a display in my new theater anyway, so this is still in line with what I was expecting.

-R

just think for another thousand dollars you could of bought two of them.

I will pass at the price you paid.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-17-2010, 03:13 PM
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Being that the 600M's and 141 are now commanding top price, you may also want to take a look at the Panasonic TH-65PF12UK since it is within your budget. The panny professional monitors are great displays. I have several of them, albiet an earlier series, and they have proven to be extremely reliable, no buzzing, and a great picture.
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