Samsung PNXXc450 Owners Thread *NO PRICE TALK* - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by poohba86 View Post

sounds like you got a dud. sorry man.

Maybe, maybe not. (our definition of a dud can be working as designed to a manufacturer)

Amazon agreed to a replacement unit after hearing that it was delivered lying down in the truck, before that they wanted me to get a Samsung tech out to look at it before they would do anything. I am really hoping that the replacment unit doesn't buzz, I am sick and tired of going through TV after TV just trying to find something that simply works as it should.

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post #32 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Maybe, maybe not. (our definition of a dud can be working as designed to a manufacturer)

Amazon agreed to a replacement unit after hearing that it was delivered lying down in the truck, before that they wanted me to get a Samsung tech out to look at it before they would do anything. I am really hoping that the replacment unit doesn't buzz, I am sick and tired of going through TV after TV just trying to find something that simply works as it should.

Are you going with the same model for the replacement?
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post #33 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:01 AM
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I'm trying to decide between a Sharp Aquos 52" LCD or this Samsung 50" Plasma.

Factors I am considering in no particular order:
- price
- screen glare/reflection
- picture quality
- look of tv (wow factor on and off)
- buzzing concerns

what do you think?

Sharp Aquos 52" is around $1k...this Samsung is around $700 but is 720 instead of 1080, has some screen glare/reflection, possible buzzing...and I'm a little worried about plasma burn-in and maintenance (more so than with LCD)

convince me one way or the other
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post #34 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Are you going with the same model for the replacement?

It's all they offered, it should be delivered on the 9th. I don't know what I will do if I get another buzzer...

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post #35 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

It's all they offered, it should be delivered on the 9th. I don't know what I will do if I get another buzzer...

It is starting to appear like we have entered the era of all future Plasmas having some level of buzzing problems. Did you catch the following comment, from D-Nice, on the 2010 Panny thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post18240650

"I think he doesn't understand that all plasmas buzz. Some are just louder than others. S2 I have buzzes during bright scenes. Its lower than the buzz on any of the Kuros, but that's because of that third layer of glass. I expect the G20/25 and VT20/25 displays to buzz louder than the S2 because they do not have the additional layer of glass. Its all because of how plasmas generate light."
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post #36 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I've known about that since I bought a Kuro last year. The odd thing about Samsung displays though is that last years 450 and 550 sets had the extra glass, and they still had a loud buzz on random units. There seems to be more to it than this.

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post #37 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:38 AM
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What kind of scenes are you noticing the pixel lines from? blu ray? white/light scenes?

Now that you've been with the set longer, does the PQ still compare well to your Panny? Minus the black levels in total-darkness...
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post #38 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

What kind of scenes are you noticing the pixel lines from? blu ray? white/light scenes?

Now that you've been with the set longer, does the PQ still compare well to your Panny? Minus the black levels in total-darkness...

Yes it does still compare, the screen has very nice color depth ad it is fairly accurate (still have to dial it in as some stuff looks off) This is what has surprised me the most.

As for the lines, I've noticed them in everything from movies to games to the TV menus, it is really odd as getting close makes them disappear into the pixel structure. I would think that if this were due to the resolution and seating distance that I would see them at all times but I just don't, I'll be watching a scene and suddenly there are lines through their face... I'll do some more indepth testing on this at a distance tonight just to make sure that seating distance isn't causing it.

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post #39 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:49 AM
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Is the pn50c450 3D ready some else on this site said that is it true?
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post #40 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

It is starting to appear like we have entered the era of all future Plasmas having some level of buzzing problems. Did you catch the following comment, from D-Nice, on the 2010 Panny thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post18240650

"I think he doesn't understand that all plasmas buzz. Some are just louder than others. S2 I have buzzes during bright scenes. Its lower than the buzz on any of the Kuros, but that's because of that third layer of glass. I expect the G20/25 and VT20/25 displays to buzz louder than the S2 because they do not have the additional layer of glass. Its all because of how plasmas generate light."

Many '09 Samsungs, including my B650, do not buzz.

Click here for my home theater setup
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post #41 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yes it does still compare, the screen has very nice color depth ad it is fairly accurate (still have to dial it in as some stuff looks off) This is what has surprised me the most.

As for the lines, I've noticed them in everything from movies to games to the TV menus, it is really odd as getting close makes them disappear into the pixel structure. I would think that if this were due to the resolution and seating distance that I would see them at all times but I just don't, I'll be watching a scene and suddenly there are lines through their face... I'll do some more indepth testing on this at a distance tonight just to make sure that seating distance isn't causing it.


Do you think it has anything to do with the adjusted cell light setting? I think I remember reading awhile ago that someone heard from a Samsung rep or perhaps a calibrator, that the cell light settting should stay at '10'. Similarly, I remember reading about someone having the same issue with a Samsung plasma, and some were speculating that it could be voltage increases/decreass across the set - similar I suppose to an ABL feature. Perhaps try playing with the cell light setting to see if it changes things?
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post #42 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Do you think it has anything to do with the adjusted cell light setting? I think I remember reading awhile ago that someone heard from a Samsung rep or perhaps a calibrator, that the cell light settting should stay at '10'. Similarly, I remember reading about someone having the same issue with a Samsung plasma, and some were speculating that it could be voltage increases/decreass across the set - similar I suppose to an ABL feature. Perhaps try playing with the cell light setting to see if it changes things?

I could up the cell light to 10, but that causes the brightness limiter to kick in on a lot of content, I have it at 8 to avoid the ABL activation. I'll give it a try and if it works I'll actually be a little upset since cell light at 8 stops the ABL from activating and I'll have to figure something else out.

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post #43 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yes it does still compare, the screen has very nice color depth ad it is fairly accurate (still have to dial it in as some stuff looks off) This is what has surprised me the most.

As for the lines, I've noticed them in everything from movies to games to the TV menus, it is really odd as getting close makes them disappear into the pixel structure. I would think that if this were due to the resolution and seating distance that I would see them at all times but I just don't, I'll be watching a scene and suddenly there are lines through their face... I'll do some more indepth testing on this at a distance tonight just to make sure that seating distance isn't causing it.

Are those lines similar to what the Panny 50x1 had?
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post #44 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rick1000 View Post

Are those lines similar to what the Panny 50x1 had?

Not that I know of, the X1 had severe DSE like streaking on the AR filter. (the 1080p models had similar streaking as well)

These are horizontal lines that look like pixel rows, but they aren't always visible, I still have to do more testing with this before I say anything definite on the subject.

Current theories.
Processing error creating scan line like effects.
Pixel structure causing this with certain colors or patterns.
10 feet is too close to a 50" 720p set for my eyes

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post #45 of 1732 Old 03-03-2010, 07:16 PM
 
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When I had a B860 in house for a couple weeks I noticed that playing with the energy saving modes did affect the character of the buzz. I'm not saying it made the buzz drastically quieter, but the frequency and amplitude of the buzz did change depending on what eco setting I was on. I don't know what kind of energy save modes are on the C450's but you might find the sound of the buzz is slightly less annoying on different settings.

P.S. The B860 I had (Nov 2009 build) had what I would consider normal mild plasma buzz. It wasn't a major issue. Oftentimes I would never hear it, even when I moved it into the bedroom which is smaller than the living room. Occasionally on bright white screens I would notice a little buzz, but it was within normal range and was not excessive.

A bit of plasma buzz is indeed normal. This damn NEC CRT monitor I'm looking at right now with my puter has a noticeable buzz. But oh, the blacks are so nice, and the motion is clearly better than LCD...

I have heard real loud buzzers from Samsung as well, so I know that the buzzing did vary, and some of them were unacceptably loud and obnoxious.
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post #46 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 06:18 AM
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Has anyone found any pictures of the back of the C series plasmas yet? I'm very strongly considering the pn42c450, but I would love to actually see the back and side panels with the inputs/outputs.

Thanks!
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post #47 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 08:55 AM
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There seems to be 4 reviews up on amazon for the C430 model..seems to have come out of nowhere - I didn't even know this model was being produced. Looks like this one has one less HDMI input, and may possibly have the charcoal TOC instead of the burgundy like the C450....reviews seems positive...and there's 2 or 3 reports of NON-BUZZING 42"s there as well if you look at the "comments" to the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN42C4.../ref=pd_cp_e_1
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post #48 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

There seems to be 4 reviews up on amazon for the C430 model..seems to have come out of nowhere - I didn't even know this model was being produced. Looks like this one has one less HDMI input, and may possibly have the charcoal TOC instead of the burgundy like the C450....reviews seems positive...and there's 2 or 3 reports of NON-BUZZING 42"s there as well if you look at the "comments" to the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN42C4.../ref=pd_cp_e_1

I received my PN42C430 via FEDEX yesterday , unfortunately the screen was shattered so I am awaiting a replacement which is due here tomorrow. I can tell you though that there is no TOC at all on this set , it is completely black , it also appears that the bezel is slightly thinner than it was on the 2009 model , and the stand is a bit wider. The set looks really nice , too bad FEDEX smashed it. I can give you guys my impressions on the picture after I receive my replacement tomorrow if you are interested.
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post #49 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePrice1976 View Post

I received my PN42C430 via FEDEX yesterday , unfortunately the screen was shattered so I am awaiting a replacement which is due here tomorrow. I can tell you though that there is no TOC at all on this set , it is completely black , it also appears that the bezel is slightly thinner than it was on the 2009 model , and the stand is a bit wider. The set looks really nice , too bad FEDEX smashed it. I can give you guys my impressions on the picture after I receive my replacement tomorrow if you are interested.


Definitely would like to hear your thoughts on the picture/blacks/buzzing, etc...
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post #50 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I figured out what the "scan lines" are, there is a solid black line of nothing between each horizontal row of pixels, each one of these lines is roughly half as thick as the pixel rows. (and the pixels are rectangular like on the 42inch models) After I figured this out I remembered a CES interview where a Samsung Rep said they were doing this on all their sets to improve the blacks in room lighting, they said that any blank spot between pixels would be "painted" black, what they didn't say was that they were going to add blank spots to achieve this.
(my 42px75 Panasonic plasma has no spacers between the pixels, and I would bet money that none of the previous years of Samsung plasma sets had them either)

Normally I can sit 8.5 feet from a 50inch 720p plasma set to get all signs of screen door effect to vanish, but thanks to these black lines, I have to move to 14.5 feet to get them to vanish. I would guess that roughly 1/3 of the screen is made up of these lines, maybe more.

At least this actually does make the blacks look good in room lighting.


I have no idea what I am going to do at this point as my replacment from Amazon has already been sent out, and there is no way that I will be able to put up with these lines.

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post #51 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Alright, I figured out what the "scan lines" are, there is a solid black line of nothing between each horizontal row of pixels, each one of these lines is roughly half as thick as the pixel rows. (and the pixels are rectangular like on the 42inch models) After I figured this out I remembered a CES interview where a Samsung Rep said they were doing this on all their sets to improve the blacks in room lighting, they said that any blank spot between pixels would be "painted" black, what they didn't say was that they were going to add blank spots to achieve this.
(my 42px75 Panasonic plasma has no spacers between the pixels, and I would bet money that none of the previous years of Samsung plasma sets had them either)

Normally I can sit 8.5 feet from a 50inch 720p plasma set to get all signs of screen door effect to vanish, but thanks to these black lines, I have to move to 14.5 feet to get them to vanish. I would guess that roughly 1/3 of the screen is made up of these lines, maybe more.

At least this actually does make the blacks look good in room lighting. :eyeroll:


I have no idea what I am going to do at this point as my replacment from Amazon has already been sent out, and there is no way that I will be able to put up with these lines.


Good Lord! Did they say that they were doing that on all models, or just the 720P sets? Having to sit fifteen feet away; you might as well have a 42C450 model, that you could sit closer to, unless the black spacers are just as large on those units too.
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post #52 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Good Lord! Did they say that they were doing that on all models, or just the 720P sets? Having to sit fifteen feet away; you might as well have a 42C450 model, that you could sit closer to, unless the black spacers are just as large on those units too.

They said all models based on what I remember, but I never thought that they would make the inbetween spaces bigger to achieve this.

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post #53 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Alright, I figured out what the "scan lines" are, there is a solid black line of nothing between each horizontal row of pixels, each one of these lines is roughly half as thick as the pixel rows. (and the pixels are rectangular like on the 42inch models) After I figured this out I remembered a CES interview where a Samsung Rep said they were doing this on all their sets to improve the blacks in room lighting, they said that any blank spot between pixels would be "painted" black, what they didn't say was that they were going to add blank spots to achieve this.
(my 42px75 Panasonic plasma has no spacers between the pixels, and I would bet money that none of the previous years of Samsung plasma sets had them either)

Normally I can sit 8.5 feet from a 50inch 720p plasma set to get all signs of screen door effect to vanish, but thanks to these black lines, I have to move to 14.5 feet to get them to vanish. I would guess that roughly 1/3 of the screen is made up of these lines, maybe more.

At least this actually does make the blacks look good in room lighting. :eyeroll:


I have no idea what I am going to do at this point as my replacment from Amazon has already been sent out, and there is no way that I will be able to put up with these lines.

Wow.
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post #54 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:28 AM
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Not sure what to make of this....is this an example of being overly particular of a displayed image, or is it a legitimate concern on the updated C-level Samsung engineering? Any other owners care to chime in about this issue? Haven't read about it being an issue in other reviewers on Amazon..(about 5 reviews)...

I don't believe anyone else mentioning issues with such lines in this thread...Is this something only a select few can recognize? I find it hard to believe that Samsung would implement this if its defects are recognizable to the average viewer at distances as large as 8-12 feet.
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post #55 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:38 AM
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There is only one owner review posted on Amazon for the 50C450 model, and that person is not an Amazon Confirmed Owner. Also, he said that he has the settings turned way down, for break in purposes, so that might lessen the chances that he would notice the black screen door contrast.
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post #56 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

There is only one owner review posted on Amazon for the 50C450 model, and that person is not an Amazon Confirmed Owner. Also, he said that he has the settings turned way down, for break in purposes, so that might lessen the chances that he would notice the black screen door contrast.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN42C4...7731911&sr=8-1

There's a couple of reviewers on here as well that I was counting in...I'm not sure what classifies an Amazon Confirmed Owner, but I believe they are still referencing the new C-model...
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post #57 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN42C430-42-Inch-Plasma-Black/dp/B0036WT3UW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1267731911&sr=8-1

There's a couple of reviewers on here as well that I was counting in...I'm not sure what classifies an Amazon Confirmed Owner, but I believe they are still referencing the new C-model...

Those are reviews for 42 inch size units. Same number of pixels, as for the 50 inch panel, but much smaller, so that might have a big effect in noticing the black dividing lines. We will just have to await more owner evaluations. It would be best for people to exam them in stores, before ordering.

Amazon certifies those that they can confirm actually purchased an item through them. That adds credibility to those reviewers, since online reviews have a history of having been gamed.
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post #58 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 12:18 PM
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I am also having buzzing issues with mine. But when I'm playing games or movies I can't even notice it. I probably ran the tv for 8hrs at default settings.
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post #59 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 12:22 PM
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I am also having buzzing issues with mine. But when I'm playing games or movies I can't even notice it. I probably ran the tv for 8hrs at default settings.

Are you noticing any "line bleed" / "scan lines" like the poster above has been mentioning...
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post #60 of 1732 Old 03-04-2010, 12:38 PM
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I am also having buzzing issues with mine. But when I'm playing games or movies I can't even notice it. I probably ran the tv for 8hrs at default settings.

When do you notice it? Watching cable programming? sports? pr0n?

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