The Official Panasonic G20/25 Owner's Discussion Thread [no price talk] - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > The Official Panasonic G20/25 Owner's Discussion Thread [no price talk]
NOAMattD's Avatar NOAMattD 08:57 PM 03-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by apfhex View Post

Like it said, my tests probably weren't too useful. I'm going to be taking some more though with a CRT if I get get the setup working. What minimum shutter speed should I use? I'm not sure I can actually make the room light enough to go very high.

When it comes to testing input lag, as fast as you can get. If your laptop has s-video AND dvi you can output to both at the same time Try sending the plasma both 480p and 1080p signals and see if there's any difference. If you have street fighter 4 there's also a "standard" test the guys on a fighting game forum are using to test input lag, PM me if you want to know more.

apfhex's Avatar apfhex 09:00 PM 03-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcoakley View Post

How did you manage to get your Harmony One configured for your new set?

Use settings for the G10. Haven't run into any issues so far. Discrete input commands work fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan__ View Post

But if you want to catch only 1 (maybe 2) ticks on a millisecond display, then you need a shutter speed of around 1/1000th of a second. Actually with that speed, (if it's updating fast enough) you have a near 100% chance of getting 2 millisecond values. With a speed of 1/2000th of a second, you only have a 50% chance.

Ok. There's zero chance of getting a shutter that fast with my camera unless I put the TVs outside in the sunlight. I tried some at 1/400 and the numbers were invisible. Highest I managed is 1/250. The pics aren't worth looking at but I'll post some numbers. Sorry I can't manage better, someone else with a better setup will have to try.

Setup: PowerBook with S-Video to CRT and DVI-to-HDMI to G20, mirrored (PowerBook screen not used) at 800x600 @ 60Hz.
1/125 - CRT 00:02:06:929, G20 00:02:06:955
1/250 - CRT 00:02:20:398, G20 00:02:20:398
1/125 - CRT 00:04:02:735, G20 00:04:02:763
1/125 - CRT 00:04:10:647, G20 00:04:10:647
1/125 - CRT 00:04:22:427, G20 00:04:22:455
1/250 - CRT 00:04:39:224, G20 00:04:39:224
1/250 - CRT 00:04:45:728, G20 00:04:45:756
1/250 - CRT 00:04:52:626, G20 00:04:52:626

Also a black level comparison with the CRT. This was a 10 second exposure on blank inputs just to show how "infinite black" the CRT is compared to the G20. Showing the right half of the screens. The CRT is below the plasma but you can't see it. Funny how you can see some IR but it's not visible to the naked eye.

To be fair though, when the CRT is showing any content the blacks are probably worse.



p.s. here's a shot of the TV with the afternoon sunlight (window shades near TV shut but ones over sliding glass door in back of room open, so not as dark as I can make it. Glare is a little exaggerated in photo) and a large shot of the remote next to Harmony One.


curly21029's Avatar curly21029 09:03 PM 03-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

Are we that grew up using phosphors (CRT/Plasma) doomed to never like LCDs?

Sold my G10 this week and until the BL issues had planned to buy 2010 Panasonic Plasma. Lfe was simple.

Thought perhaps now time to test the LCD-LED LD current offering. So putting my toes in the LCD water, I bought home a Sept 2009 build XBR8 46in LD set. The BLs are better as per the reviews and in Kuro territory. However no matter what setting I use with all the CNET/AVF recommended setting, I can not get pass the video look of an LCD even on this top rated set. And all motion smoothing was turned off. It just seem to make faces look like plastic or excessive makeup. The pic is not bad, just not engaging. What I did not expect was the seemly lack of color graduation on the XBR8 LCD too.

Anyone else seriously looking at LCD-LED LD and nothing similar things?

So worked out a deal at BB for G20 50in for delivery this Wednesday. Wednesday night will be interesting.

I was in the same boat when looking for a set to replace the G10. LG's 55LH90 was an attractive prospect, but ultimately the motion handling was the deal breaker. LCD technology simply isn't sufficient at giving an accurate reproduction of realistic motion. Either you have to deal with massive blur or something that looks robotic. Seeing Kung Fu Panda, one of my favorite Blu Rays/movies, was the kiss of death for the LH90. I was largely comfortable with how live action looked on the set, but computer animation exposed every flaw... and the majority of the movies I watch are animated. Shame. While I could care less about watching 3D content, one nice byproduct of it becoming popular would be manufacturers working to improve LCD motion handling to compete with the inherently superior plasmas. The active shutter systems being implemented require better refresh rates than what's necessary with normal 2D content. Early reports are giving plasma tech the definitive edge.

At any rate, sorry for taking this thread off-topic. Although I opted not to get another Panasonic, keep posting! New tech is always intriguing.
Lyan's Avatar Lyan 09:37 PM 03-07-2010
Wow, apfhex. Unless I'm interpreting those numbers wrong, the G20 had less lag than the crt? Seems backwards. Conversion lag?
apfhex's Avatar apfhex 10:03 PM 03-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyan View Post

Conversion lag?

I was wondering if that was the case too. Someone with a more capable PC needs to runs the tests so we can see.
Lyan's Avatar Lyan 10:25 PM 03-07-2010
Haha, either way, thank you for doing it and posting your data.
DocuMaker's Avatar DocuMaker 10:40 PM 03-07-2010
B8500 240hz LED with customizable AMP handily beats XBR8 (120hz) and LH90 (pseudo-240hz using scanning backlight) at motion. CNET says the B8500 is the only LED/LCD they've ever tested that could resolve full 1080 lines motion resolution.

B8500 has more zones than XBR8/LH90 for less blooming.
B8500 has UCP (Ultra-Clear Panel) which is better than yucky matte screens on LG/Sony.

B8500 or perhaps a 2010 model are the ones to get if you cannot do PDP.
AuDiOBoY529's Avatar AuDiOBoY529 12:28 AM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

I just saw a 50G25 today. Unfortunately it wasn't turned on. But I did get to see the new "infinite black filter". I have to say, I was sort of disappointed. Under the bright store lights, the screen appeared a medium shade of gray at best, definitely not closer to true black like Pioneer and some of the Samsung plasmas.

Gotta agree with you. I saw a 50G25 sandwiched between a Sammy 50b860 and one of the new model 50c550 at a local mom and pop store where I use to work at. A 54g10 was right around the corner. The 50b860 black levels were still darker than the 50g25 in bright lights, however 50g25 black level is darker than the 50c550. The 50g25 reduced reflections better than the two Sammy, but what is the point if you can't maintain your black levels. The g25 has defiantly better black levels than the g10. In a dark room the 50g25 will beat these Sammy in term of black levels.
tlh1005's Avatar tlh1005 06:33 AM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuDiOBoY529 View Post

Gotta agree with you. I saw a 50G25 sandwiched between a Sammy 50b860 and one of the new model 50c550 at a local mom and pop store where I use to work at. A 54g10 was right around the corner. The 50b860 black levels were still darker than the 50g25 in bright lights, however 50g25 black level is darker than the 50c550. The 50g25 reduced reflections better than the two Sammy, but what is the point if you can't maintain your black levels. The g25 has defiantly better black levels than the g10. In a dark room the 50g25 will beat these Sammy in term of black levels.

You kidding? Everyone doesn't measure happiness with a meter. Of course I like lower MLL's but I am mostly interested in the better AR filter. Reducing reflections is a plus for people like me who do a lot of daytime viewing in a lit room. I can't wait for more VT reviews to see what that filter does!
BWDinc's Avatar BWDinc 09:24 AM 03-08-2010
Darker doesnt always mean more accurate. The S2 actually has slightly brighter black in the store. Maybe its for a performance reason.
Ericthemidget's Avatar Ericthemidget 10:42 AM 03-08-2010
I won't have my set until the first week of April. so pissed off. Apparently, Panasonic doesn't have any in stock for their warranty program until then.
TommyO's Avatar TommyO 10:55 AM 03-08-2010
Which one did you order ?
AuDiOBoY529's Avatar AuDiOBoY529 11:44 AM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlh1005 View Post

You kidding? Everyone doesn't measure happiness with a meter. Of course I like lower MLL's but I am mostly interested in the better AR filter. Reducing reflections is a plus for people like me who do a lot of daytime viewing in a lit room. I can't wait for more VT reviews to see what that filter does!

yeah believe it or not, this years, the AR filters are better this year. I believe that the VT will have deeper blacks when appear in daytime viewing in a lit room, aka Pioneer Kuros.
Orta's Avatar Orta 01:41 PM 03-08-2010
Thanks for the lag measurements apfhex. The fact that you were getting the same value on the Macbook display and G20 suggests the 2010's are either at least as fast as the '09's...or Apple's displays are really laggy.

What kind of CRT are you using in this most recent post though, a TV or old PC monitor. Rather than cloning output across the CRT and G20 simultaneously, it would probably be better to compare the Macbook to the CRT--though if S-video is the best connection they have available, it probably won't make a difference.
new plasma guy's Avatar new plasma guy 02:51 PM 03-08-2010
does any body have a over all impresion of the g20 , i want to buy a tv this week . is this set worth the money and a good set to get ? dont know much about plasmas never had one . thanks
barrist's Avatar barrist 02:55 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by new plasma guy View Post

does any body have a over all impresion of the g20 , i want to buy a tv this week . is this set worth the money and a good set to get ? dont know much about plasmas never had one . thanks

Gonna be hard to gauge, as it basically just came out. no other 2010 plasmas to really compare to either.

If you need to get one this week, maybe find it some place with a good return policy.
supra92's Avatar supra92 03:32 PM 03-08-2010
Dang... 21 replies after mine and no response, LOL.

No worries, just a quick bump here (since questions can get buried!) to see if anyone knows what the thickness of the G20/G25 is (the actual panel part) --- is it thicker like the G10, or thinner like the G15?

Or is the G25 thin like G15 and G20 thick like G10? I couldn't find physical specs for these units to determine one way or the other, but have to figure one of the people here who bought a G20/G25 and have it in hand, can either measure it or likely have the user manual with the spec sheet in it...

Thanks, and cheers,
Supra92
JasonD52's Avatar JasonD52 03:58 PM 03-08-2010
Got my 50" G20 today from BB. It's replacing a flat screen Sony XBR 36 inch CRT that finally bit the dust. My TV is in a very bright south-facing room with 4 windows. In the daytime, the Sony was almost unwatchable. The G20 is great in the bright room. Today, it was sunny with no clouds and I have to look closely to see any reflections. The bezel (looks black no matter how closely you look) on the G20 is as shiny as the screen on the CRT was.

PQ is incredable...but my only reference was my old Sony (a TV with pretty good PQ). There really is no comparison.

If I can watch a plasma in my well-lit room without distracting reflections, ANYONE can!
thismayscareyou's Avatar thismayscareyou 04:17 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by new plasma guy View Post

does any body have a over all impresion of the g20 , i want to buy a tv this week . is this set worth the money and a good set to get ? dont know much about plasmas never had one . thanks

G25 is my first plasma as well. Heads and tails above any LCD I've owned previously. Outstanding picture quality and well worth the money.
new plasma guy's Avatar new plasma guy 04:24 PM 03-08-2010
thanks . sounds great . did you lower the settings for the first hundred hours or are you ? like contrast and brightness ect ? thanks
thismayscareyou's Avatar thismayscareyou 05:12 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by new plasma guy View Post

thanks . sounds great . did you lower the settings for the first hundred hours or are you ? like contrast and brightness ect ? thanks

Just been using THX mode when I've watched movies and the settings recommended by D-Nice for the break in slides. I've watched minimal SD content so far.
barrist's Avatar barrist 05:45 PM 03-08-2010
Leetthal's Avatar Leetthal 05:58 PM 03-08-2010
" In other words, whilst inky its blacks still cannot match those seen and measured on the legendary 9G Pioneer Kuros."

Wow this sucks.
mustangs1's Avatar mustangs1 06:08 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

" In other words, whilst inky its blacks still cannot match those seen and measured on the legendary 9G Pioneer Kuros."

Wow this sucks.

D-Nice says that Panasonic's 2011 sets will exceed Kuro black level performance, if the road map holds up
Laron's Avatar Laron 06:28 PM 03-08-2010
I have read many times that the G20/G25 does not have any cooling fans around the back. How does this thing keep cool? Question for the owners: Does your set feel too hot? I have an enclosed space where I would mount this panel should I decide to get one.
RandyWalters's Avatar RandyWalters 06:32 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by supra92 View Post

Dang... 21 replies after mine and no response, LOL.

No worries, just a quick bump here (since questions can get buried!) to see if anyone knows what the thickness of the G20/G25 is (the actual panel part) --- is it thicker like the G10, or thinner like the G15?

Or is the G25 thin like G15 and G20 thick like G10? I couldn't find physical specs for these units to determine one way or the other, but have to figure one of the people here who bought a G20/G25 and have it in hand, can either measure it or likely have the user manual with the spec sheet in it...

The G20 and G25 are all 3.5" thick with flat rear covers. They did away with the stepped rear cover that the G15 had.

BTW, i posted links to the G20 and G25 Operating Manuals on the first page of this thread and they contain all the specs and dimensions.
JasonD52's Avatar JasonD52 07:34 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laron View Post

I have read many times that the G20/G25 does not have any cooling fans around the back. How does this thing keep cool? Question for the owners: Does your set feel too hot? I have an enclosed space where I would mount this panel should I decide to get one.

Mine's been on all day. The back of the TV is cool -- I don't feel any warm spots. The screen is slightly warm.
Leetthal's Avatar Leetthal 08:50 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

D-Nice says that Panasonic's 2011 sets will exceed Kuro black level performance, if the road map holds up

I really hope so because i'm waiting for it, got my little 42S1 until i get a 50" 2011 set.
alaskaman1666's Avatar alaskaman1666 08:56 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by laron View Post

i have read many times that the g20/g25 does not have any cooling fans around the back. How does this thing keep cool? Question for the owners: Does your set feel too hot? I have an enclosed space where i would mount this panel should i decide to get one.

Heat is a function of power consumed (used)
The 2010 panasonic plasma sets are more energy efficient so they should also run cooler !
Laron's Avatar Laron 09:18 PM 03-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonD52 View Post

Mine's been on all day. The back of the TV is cool -- I don't feel any warm spots. The screen is slightly warm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaman1666 View Post

Heat is a function of power consumed (used)
The 2010 panasonic plasma sets are more energy efficient so they should also run cooler !

Thanks guys. One more question: Is there an option to permanently turn off the TV's built-in speakers? For instance, I want to connect a soundbar to the TV's audio out and program the TV's remote to control the soundbar's volume. I don't want the volume control adjusting both the TV's volume and the soundbar's volume simultaneously.
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